Christopher Luxon says the Government's making its expectations clear when it comes to behaviour in social housing.
Kāinga Ora is formally warning seven times as many tenants as it was last financial year.
It's evicted 63 tenants in 10 months for disruptive behaviour.
The Prime Minister told Mike Hosking the enforcement action is sending a clear message about what is and isn't acceptable.
He says it's a privilege to be in a state house funded by the taxpayer, and unruly behaviour isn't okay.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Prime Minister's well, it's a very good morning to you.
(00:02):
Good morning Mike. How are you very well? Indeed, what
episode of Mobland are you up to?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I've finished watching episode nine and I haven't got to
the final, so I presume you have watched it, but
I mean, please don't spoil it for me, because I've
sort of got to watch it in fifteen minute.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
But no, no, you'll be You'll be thoroughly enjoyed. As
a school out of ten team's the greatest program you
ever saw.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I mean, I thought Day of the Jack all last year,
and I think Mobland this year, without doubt, best show.
And Tom Hardy and guy Ritchie Bartilla, who's awesome in
that shows. Pierce Brosna A yes, when you think about
him as the Urbane Bond and then just the character
that he's playing there as the Irish mob Boss was amazing,
and Helen are and fantastic, so now I atally love that.
I mean, it's just anything Tom Hardy does is brilliant.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
David Seymore's speech on Sunday, did you happen to see it?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I saw bits of it. Yeah, I thought was a
good speech. I agree with a lot of it. Was
very up to.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I thought it was uplifting and we need more of
that sort.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Of to We need yet we need to be elebrating success.
We need to be able to get people to get
on with stuff and people will a better get up
and go on positively ambition and be celebrating big time.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Can you explain the headline was you are seeking I
don't know if it's your just your government? You were
seeking advice on this run it straight? Who are you
seeking advice from? And what sort of advice you're looking
for and why it's a government problem.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, Well, I mean, first and foremost, I mean, you know,
tragic events, but you know, as I said last week,
you know, adults have got to be take responsible for
their own behavior. And you've got a lot of people
medical fraternity please principles coming out saying look dumb idea.
And then you know, adults involved with the actual formal events,
you know, you know think about it as what I've said,
So I think Mark Mitchell is actually just doing a
(01:41):
very quick thing on the formal events, just to make
sure that that's all fully compliant and sortid as it
should be. But you know, there's there's not much you
know what, the government can't really pass a regulation or
a piece of legislation right to stop someone at a
twenty first birthday, you know, reenacting those events, right, So
I think, you know, got to be quite honest with
each other about this is about personal responsibility and people
(02:04):
taking charge of that. Mark's quite right to do a
quick sense of the formal events and make sure that
you know that's been run appropriately.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Speaking of behavior, we're talking earlier on in the program
about going or six hundred percent increase in formal warnings.
The good news, I suppose that there is good news
is that only two percent go to the eviction part
of it. The lawyer we talked to said she anticipated
somewhere between one thousand and fifteen hundred evictions were needed
to really tidy this mess up. So far, you've got
(02:32):
sixty three. Is are you going hard enough at this
or not?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, Like, I think it's a good start. I'm open
to actually going harder to be honest. You know, we've
the interesting thing on the State House weight less is
it's gone like from twenty seven thousand down to nineteen thousand.
That's actually an amazing story over the time of our government.
But the beggar issue as putting consequences out there. Now
people understand the deal, which is it's a privilege to
(02:56):
be in a state house that's funded by your fellow taxpayer,
but we don't expect unruly behavior. And as we're found
with the sanctions, actually, when you do have a warning system,
when actually there are real consequences, when people are actually
going to get evicted, that's kind of important. I think
there's something like one thy five hundred people who actually
have been issued formal warnings now in the last or
(03:18):
so far this year, I think for memory, actually ten months,
I think it is. So you know, there's obviously a
pipeline of complaints and people that might be more people
coming out, but we will kick people out because the
deal has to be pretty simple. In His Zealand Rights
and Responsibilities, Yep, you get a right to a state
house if you're lucky enough to get one. It's funded
by your fellow tax payer to help you. But you
don't go and abuse your neighbors. It's unacceptable because we'll
give it to one of the other nineteen thousand people
(03:40):
on the wait list that deserve their shot at a home.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And this does I suppose dub tail into the job
seeker thing with the light system. Once you get to
read there are very few people on red. So in
other words, they get the warning. If you're serious about it,
then they pull their hidden.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, the key thing is it's changing behavior might because
you're actually saying to people there will be consequences. These
are the expectations, These are the obligations. This is the
right and the responsibility that the companies at and I
don't think the last government was clear about that at all.
They had two evictions in their last year in government.
You know, we've got sixty three here, so I mean,
I just think, you know, we're being very explicit with people,
whether it's job seeker. You know, folk, you expect you
(04:17):
to be looking for a job. We're not penalizing you
for not having one, but we are going to penalize
you if you don't shot up to the interviews and
don't have a resume, and don't engage with your case
manager and do what you need to do, which is
look for a job. So because you're ready to work.
So you know, we're just being clear about those expectations.
And I think that's having a real effect. People understand
it it's no different.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Sadly, you have to do it, but we have to.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
We have to put rights and responsible back at the
heart of our social contract with each other. So we're
doing it here. We're doing it on well for obligations
as well.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The parents at school prosecuting them. I did wonder we
had seen more on Friday. I think it was. I
did wonder, you know, the sort of parent who doesn't
seem the kid to school. I don't know what you
gain from prosecution, but I guess that's the same sort
of message. If you go hard, presume they're going to
pull their finger out as well.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The same principle, exactly the same principle which has hang on.
The government's now put it one hundred and forty million
dollars into attendance services come and this budget you've got
schools now collecting weekly and daily data on it and
trying to engage with parents. And now you've got the
third actor, which is parents, and we've got to call
them to responsibility. If you can't get your kid to
a school, you are setting them up for a lifetime
(05:24):
of not realizing their potential. You know, and we know
there's a lot of high paying jobs out there that
want to come to New Zealand, but we won't get
them if we don't actually have our kids in school.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We're a first world.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Country, and yes, David and our government we've made some
good progress and lifting attendance, but still forty two percent
of kids don't go to school regularly. If they don't
go there ninety percent of the time, by the time
they get to sixteen, they've lost a year's worth of education.
So you know, frankly, our parents need do need to
be called to account. And you know it's not it's
compulsory education for a reason. It's not optional, so we
(05:54):
expect people to get their kids to school.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
What I'm reading from Peters Winston in India, there's some
sort of FDA breakthrough, is there?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's not actually what he means by that is the
breakthroughs on the fact that we're actually at the table negotiating.
If you think about where we were eighteen months ago,
non existent relationship two countries that really didn't have any
store of connection over that previous six years at all.
In fact, trade went backwards, and now we've built that
relationship back. We've got good top to top engagement with
(06:23):
Winston's counterpart, Ja Shunka and him Todd and Goyel me
and Mody and Judith with her defense counterpart. We've had
really good engagement there. So I think that's great. You know,
he's up there and he's recognizing that there is a
real change in the relationship, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Speaking of Judith, ha is she in Singapore at the
moment at this defense meeting or no?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, Judith's been up at what's called the Shangri La
Defense Meeting. It's an annual event where all the defense
ministers of the world come together, and so she's been
up there.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Which is that why she's talking about the Golden Dome.
All of a sudden, it just seemed old that the
New Zealand minister was suddenly endorsing the Golden Dome for
Trump in America.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, it would to be coming from media talking about
the America that basically there's a series of speeches from
different defense ministers and it would have been a reaction
to hegcess remarks around the Golden Dome. And obviously, you
know she's a saying, look, you know that's a defense
mechanism people. You know that the American wouldn't build if
they didn't think there was a need for them to
defend themselves. It is something that Trump campaigned on from
(07:22):
memory as well. But I think the thing for her
is that you know, as they're actually you know, security
and commercial outcomer is potentially for our fledgling defense industry.
But let's see.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
What did interest me is Miles came back. I think
whether he came back or spoke from Singapore, I can't
remember anyway, So he meets excess is five percent please
for defense spending? Miles seems to indicate he's keen Elbanezi
over the weekend goes, we're going to make our own
policy up, thank you very much. So there's an interesting
dynamic there. But is the pressure on and I know
(07:54):
what we've done and you know, don't tell me what
we've just in the budget? I get that, But is
there pressure on for us to do even more and
head towards five percent? Is all of this, especially given
what Star has said overnight, is this ye where we're heading?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, I mean, we want to keep stepping it up,
but I mean, in our conversation with the Americans, you know,
they were really you know, they were really comfortable with
our step up and where we've come from and where
we're trying to get to. I think everybody recognizes that
we've had a pretty degraded set of investments over a
number of years and as a result, we've had not
been doing enough and so they were just very pleased
(08:27):
to see us step up when we announced it. The
same with the Australian. So you know, we're on our
pathway to get to two percent, which is a good
starting point and it's a good contribution. But you know,
obviously we've got to keep an eye on it and
we've got to be prepared to spend more if we
need to. But for now, and what we've done is
we've got a plan, to be honest, Mike, that is
actually a designed to do that when the economy gets better,
(08:49):
we've got an ability to more money into the plan
and to accelerate it, particularly after four years or so,
once we've got some stuff and personnel in place. But
it's designed for that reason that we can I want
to make sure we we're doing the right stuff rather
than just the spin side of things, and the spin
will increase as we can do better.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Miles also said that China need to explain themselves as
to what he's called this extraordinary build up in the region.
Is that just him looking for a headline or are
we all collectively in this part of the world now
worried about this extraordinary build up of China.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah. I mean I can't speak for him or the
Australian government. I mean, all I can say is what
I've been saying is that, you know, we just see
a more contested world for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You've got a big build up.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Of militaries from China from other countries as well, and
you know, we're just acknowledging that we've got to play
our part. You know, we've got our own, independent from
policy national interests, we keep acting and part of it
is making sure that we're doing our bit on security.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
All right, appreciate your time as always, crystalher luxon Prime Minister.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
The Prime Minister's well, it's a very good morning to you.
(00:02):
Good morning Mike. How are you very well? Indeed, what
episode of Mobland are you up to?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I've finished watching episode nine and I haven't got to
the final, so I presume you have watched it, but
I mean, please don't spoil it for me, because I've
sort of got to watch it in fifteen minute.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
But no, no, you'll be You'll be thoroughly enjoyed. As
a school out of ten team's the greatest program you
ever saw.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I mean, I thought Day of the Jack all last year,
and I think Mobland this year, without doubt, best show.
And Tom Hardy and guy Ritchie Bartilla, who's awesome in
that shows. Pierce Brosna A yes, when you think about
him as the Urbane Bond and then just the character
that he's playing there as the Irish mob Boss was amazing,
and Helen are and fantastic, so now I atally love that.
I mean, it's just anything Tom Hardy does is brilliant.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
David Seymore's speech on Sunday, did you happen to see it?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
I saw bits of it. Yeah, I thought was a
good speech. I agree with a lot of it. Was
very up to.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
I thought it was uplifting and we need more of
that sort.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Of to We need yet we need to be elebrating success.
We need to be able to get people to get
on with stuff and people will a better get up
and go on positively ambition and be celebrating big time.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Can you explain the headline was you are seeking I
don't know if it's your just your government? You were
seeking advice on this run it straight? Who are you
seeking advice from? And what sort of advice you're looking
for and why it's a government problem.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, Well, I mean, first and foremost, I mean, you know,
tragic events, but you know, as I said last week,
you know, adults have got to be take responsible for
their own behavior. And you've got a lot of people
medical fraternity please principles coming out saying look dumb idea.
And then you know, adults involved with the actual formal events,
you know, you know think about it as what I've said,
So I think Mark Mitchell is actually just doing a
(01:41):
very quick thing on the formal events, just to make
sure that that's all fully compliant and sortid as it
should be. But you know, there's there's not much you
know what, the government can't really pass a regulation or
a piece of legislation right to stop someone at a
twenty first birthday, you know, reenacting those events, right, So
I think, you know, got to be quite honest with
each other about this is about personal responsibility and people
(02:04):
taking charge of that. Mark's quite right to do a
quick sense of the formal events and make sure that
you know that's been run appropriately.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Speaking of behavior, we're talking earlier on in the program
about going or six hundred percent increase in formal warnings.
The good news, I suppose that there is good news
is that only two percent go to the eviction part
of it. The lawyer we talked to said she anticipated
somewhere between one thousand and fifteen hundred evictions were needed
to really tidy this mess up. So far, you've got
(02:32):
sixty three. Is are you going hard enough at this
or not?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, Like, I think it's a good start. I'm open
to actually going harder to be honest. You know, we've
the interesting thing on the State House weight less is
it's gone like from twenty seven thousand down to nineteen thousand.
That's actually an amazing story over the time of our government.
But the beggar issue as putting consequences out there. Now
people understand the deal, which is it's a privilege to
(02:56):
be in a state house that's funded by your fellow taxpayer,
but we don't expect unruly behavior. And as we're found
with the sanctions, actually, when you do have a warning system,
when actually there are real consequences, when people are actually
going to get evicted, that's kind of important. I think
there's something like one thy five hundred people who actually
have been issued formal warnings now in the last or
(03:18):
so far this year, I think for memory, actually ten months,
I think it is. So you know, there's obviously a
pipeline of complaints and people that might be more people
coming out, but we will kick people out because the
deal has to be pretty simple. In His Zealand Rights
and Responsibilities, Yep, you get a right to a state
house if you're lucky enough to get one. It's funded
by your fellow tax payer to help you. But you
don't go and abuse your neighbors. It's unacceptable because we'll
give it to one of the other nineteen thousand people
(03:40):
on the wait list that deserve their shot at a home.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
And this does I suppose dub tail into the job
seeker thing with the light system. Once you get to
read there are very few people on red. So in
other words, they get the warning. If you're serious about it,
then they pull their hidden.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Well, the key thing is it's changing behavior might because
you're actually saying to people there will be consequences. These
are the expectations, These are the obligations. This is the
right and the responsibility that the companies at and I
don't think the last government was clear about that at all.
They had two evictions in their last year in government.
You know, we've got sixty three here, so I mean,
I just think, you know, we're being very explicit with people,
whether it's job seeker. You know, folk, you expect you
(04:17):
to be looking for a job. We're not penalizing you
for not having one, but we are going to penalize
you if you don't shot up to the interviews and
don't have a resume, and don't engage with your case
manager and do what you need to do, which is
look for a job. So because you're ready to work.
So you know, we're just being clear about those expectations.
And I think that's having a real effect. People understand
it it's no different.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Sadly, you have to do it, but we have to.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
We have to put rights and responsible back at the
heart of our social contract with each other. So we're
doing it here. We're doing it on well for obligations
as well.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The parents at school prosecuting them. I did wonder we
had seen more on Friday. I think it was. I
did wonder, you know, the sort of parent who doesn't
seem the kid to school. I don't know what you
gain from prosecution, but I guess that's the same sort
of message. If you go hard, presume they're going to
pull their finger out as well.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
The same principle, exactly the same principle which has hang on.
The government's now put it one hundred and forty million
dollars into attendance services come and this budget you've got
schools now collecting weekly and daily data on it and
trying to engage with parents. And now you've got the
third actor, which is parents, and we've got to call
them to responsibility. If you can't get your kid to
a school, you are setting them up for a lifetime
(05:24):
of not realizing their potential. You know, and we know
there's a lot of high paying jobs out there that
want to come to New Zealand, but we won't get
them if we don't actually have our kids in school.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
We're a first world.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Country, and yes, David and our government we've made some
good progress and lifting attendance, but still forty two percent
of kids don't go to school regularly. If they don't
go there ninety percent of the time, by the time
they get to sixteen, they've lost a year's worth of education.
So you know, frankly, our parents need do need to
be called to account. And you know it's not it's
compulsory education for a reason. It's not optional, so we
(05:54):
expect people to get their kids to school.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
What I'm reading from Peters Winston in India, there's some
sort of FDA breakthrough, is there?
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's not actually what he means by that is the
breakthroughs on the fact that we're actually at the table negotiating.
If you think about where we were eighteen months ago,
non existent relationship two countries that really didn't have any
store of connection over that previous six years at all.
In fact, trade went backwards, and now we've built that
relationship back. We've got good top to top engagement with
(06:23):
Winston's counterpart, Ja Shunka and him Todd and Goyel me
and Mody and Judith with her defense counterpart. We've had
really good engagement there. So I think that's great. You know,
he's up there and he's recognizing that there is a
real change in the relationship, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Speaking of Judith, ha is she in Singapore at the
moment at this defense meeting or no?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, Judith's been up at what's called the Shangri La
Defense Meeting. It's an annual event where all the defense
ministers of the world come together, and so she's been
up there.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Which is that why she's talking about the Golden Dome.
All of a sudden, it just seemed old that the
New Zealand minister was suddenly endorsing the Golden Dome for
Trump in America.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Yeah, it would to be coming from media talking about
the America that basically there's a series of speeches from
different defense ministers and it would have been a reaction
to hegcess remarks around the Golden Dome. And obviously, you
know she's a saying, look, you know that's a defense
mechanism people. You know that the American wouldn't build if
they didn't think there was a need for them to
defend themselves. It is something that Trump campaigned on from
(07:22):
memory as well. But I think the thing for her
is that you know, as they're actually you know, security
and commercial outcomer is potentially for our fledgling defense industry.
But let's see.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
What did interest me is Miles came back. I think
whether he came back or spoke from Singapore, I can't
remember anyway, So he meets excess is five percent please
for defense spending? Miles seems to indicate he's keen Elbanezi
over the weekend goes, we're going to make our own
policy up, thank you very much. So there's an interesting
dynamic there. But is the pressure on and I know
(07:54):
what we've done and you know, don't tell me what
we've just in the budget? I get that, But is
there pressure on for us to do even more and
head towards five percent? Is all of this, especially given
what Star has said overnight, is this ye where we're heading?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, I mean, we want to keep stepping it up,
but I mean, in our conversation with the Americans, you know,
they were really you know, they were really comfortable with
our step up and where we've come from and where
we're trying to get to. I think everybody recognizes that
we've had a pretty degraded set of investments over a
number of years and as a result, we've had not
been doing enough and so they were just very pleased
(08:27):
to see us step up when we announced it. The
same with the Australian. So you know, we're on our
pathway to get to two percent, which is a good
starting point and it's a good contribution. But you know,
obviously we've got to keep an eye on it and
we've got to be prepared to spend more if we
need to. But for now, and what we've done is
we've got a plan, to be honest, Mike, that is
actually a designed to do that when the economy gets better,
(08:49):
we've got an ability to more money into the plan
and to accelerate it, particularly after four years or so,
once we've got some stuff and personnel in place. But
it's designed for that reason that we can I want
to make sure we we're doing the right stuff rather
than just the spin side of things, and the spin
will increase as we can do better.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Miles also said that China need to explain themselves as
to what he's called this extraordinary build up in the region.
Is that just him looking for a headline or are
we all collectively in this part of the world now
worried about this extraordinary build up of China.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah. I mean I can't speak for him or the
Australian government. I mean, all I can say is what
I've been saying is that, you know, we just see
a more contested world for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
You've got a big build up.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Of militaries from China from other countries as well, and
you know, we're just acknowledging that we've got to play
our part. You know, we've got our own, independent from
policy national interests, we keep acting and part of it
is making sure that we're doing our bit on security.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
All right, appreciate your time as always, crystalher luxon Prime Minister.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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