October 14, 2024 • 10 mins
The Prime Minister is signalling potential intervention in Wellington City Council.
It comes after the council has been forced back to the drawing board on its Long Term Plan, after a $400-600 million budget shortfall from backtracking on its airport shares sale.
Mayor Tory Whanau says she hasn't heard anything from the Government about intervention.
But Luxon told Mike Hosking they're keeping an eye on the council.
He says if they need to intervene, they will.
Luxon is also standing by the decision to pour $24 million into Gumboot Friday.
Auditor-General John Ryan has found the project was funded without an open and transparent process.
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey has pointed to the Ministry of Health as being responsible for its implementation.
Luxon told Hosking that National had campaigned on backing Gumboot Friday and agreed to the investment with New Zealand First.
He says the Auditor-General can write its report and say there are things that could be done better, but the bottom line is he's backing it.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Prime Minster with us. Crystalph Luxom, good morning, Good morning,
Mike Lenham. Lawson will be great. He will be good
and I hope he does very well. Now listen, gum
Boot Friday, is this a stitung.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
No, this is about us making sure that we get
some good work done and we put more power to it.
And that's why we've been proud to support them, because
it's about Kiyi's dealing with the young young ky is
dealing with their mental health. We're going to have an
extra fifteen thousand counseling sessions for those young Kiwi's, which
who desperately needed at a pretty desperate time. So look,
it's a great organization. I'm proud that we're supporting them.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Why did the Order to General say what the Order
to General said?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Oh look, I mean they're an independent role, they're entitled
to their views. But look, we campaigned on this. We
then said, we said what we did, we're going to do.
We did it, and I'm proud that we have. So
you know, it's good that they look at the process
and they can raise their raise their advice on it.
But the bottom liners, we're doing it. We're backing a gun,
big Friday. They do great work and fifteen thousand young
(00:56):
chemis get counseling.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So you're arguing, basically, we're the government, will do what
we want. Bugger the process and he can write all
the reports he wants. You're not paying attention in this
particular cost.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that, you know,
Gunboat Friday we talked about in the campaign as being
a great example of a community organization doing good work
that could be scaled more and unique work. Actually, and
I spoke to a number of young people, you know,
and we put the money into that organization. It was
also something that you saily first wanted to do both
both parties, and I'm pleased that we are because I'm
(01:27):
getting access to county.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I defend your right to do it because you're the government.
But Matt Doucy did he throws officials under the bus
when he said, and I quote, Throughout the process, the
Minister has sought and received assurances from officials that the
implementation option chosen by the Ministry of Health is compliant
with government procedural rules. That simply isn't true.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh well, look, I think you know it was unusual
in the sense of we had campaigned on it. We
believe it's a great organization. We think it's a good
investment in young people, and you know, the new Order
to General can write their report, can say that there's
some things that they think we could do better, but
the bottom line is it's a good organization. We're backing up.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
What are the odds of you stepping into Wellington Council?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, we're pretty concerned about it. If I'm honest, it
doesn't look great. Their long term plan looks at risk.
It's something we're monitoring really closely. I know some of them,
Brown in particular, is all over it, and we'll continue
to monitor it and if we have to make an intervention,
we will.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
What would have to happen for you to move well.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I think we want to understand, you know. I know
he'll be looking very closely at the long term plan,
which is at risk under the failure to be able
to sell the airport. She is willing to the airport
and he'll want a pathway and to make sure that
they're doing everything they can to be financially responsible to
keep rates as low as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Can I quote you the Solicitor General in their advice
to the prosecution service at the Police. The guidelines asked
prosecutors to think carefully about particular decisions. We're a person,
whether the victim or defend it is MARII what does
that mean?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, I mean what I'd say is that prosecution decisions
should be color blind. But also the prosecution guidelines are
independently issued by this list of general. They are someone
you know and I really can't get You should ask her,
But I mean, I can't really get into it because
I've got to respect the other elements of our democracy,
the judiciary, and I've got to focus on what I
(03:20):
can control, and what we are controlling is restoring law
and order.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I thought you controlled whether we had race based policy
in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, we made a decision very clear. What we have
controlled as tough new gang laws. We've limited, you know,
sentencing discounts. We've actually stopped the cottage industry around the
preparation of Section twenty seven cultural reports, and you know,
we've got.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
A very race prosecution decision should be with race. That's
more justice is the Solicitor general thumbing who knows that you.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, again, I mean it's an independent role. I encourage
you to ask those questions to her. I really you've
got to can't get into it because I've got to
respect the.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But here's my problem. I'm listening to you as a
government who I thought was running the country with a
series of fairly clear objectives around race, and you say
one thing and another thing is done, and I don't
understand that.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, again, what I can do is we can focus
on what we can control, which is the executive.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Saying, by the way, what we would like to do
in this country is have non race based policies. But
I'm not sure we'll be able to because I'm expecting
pushback from the public service or independent bodies.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, I think we've had good support from much of
the public service. I appreciate not everyone's on board of
what we're trying to do, but the reality is the
vast majority have and they've been actually supporting us getting
our gender.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Out the door.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I think when you look at those new gangals, that's
going to help us cut down on violent crime. When
you look at the stop in the section twenty seven
College reports, with Harry, Tam and Coe preparing them, we've
stopped that. We're putting limits on judges and senencing discounts.
You still always be a need for people to consider
their individual cases and make the case to judges. But
you know, we would expect you know that these guidelines
(04:56):
actually are designed to make sure there's good outcomes for
people irrespective theirs, ethnicity, and frankly, prosecution should be as
I said, color lines.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So do you know that's important? Do you know who
Anaya Tanu Nai is?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
No idea.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
These were a group of people that were consulted by
the Solicitor General. They arrived in twenty eighteen as a
result of Andrew Little's Justice Summit and they had a
meeting and they want to recognize the justice system as
settler colonial and to begin decolonizing the brackets in justice system.
Those are the people who are advising the Solicitor General
(05:29):
before she writes to the Police Prosecution Service. Does that
worry you.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, I mean that's just not a view that I
would hold. I mean, I think we've got a justice
system that it needs to make sure that it prosecutes
people in a color bline way. And actually we don't
actually get well, well, we need to, I mean that's yeah,
but we don't of it well I'm not sure I
agree with that. I appreciate there's prosecution guidelines independently prepared
by an independence listed general and a branch of democracy
(05:56):
that I have to respect, and I can't get into
per se. But what I can do is make sure
that because you know, they want to make sure prosecution
scitions are made free from political influence. I get that,
you know that's part of our democracy.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well you want to how is it you're so keen
to adhere to the political but not to the race.
So you don't want to get you some self in
trouble for political but you don't mind getting yourself in
trouble for race. Well, I mean you can't avoid these instructions.
I mean they're explicit to recognize the justice system is
settler colonial and to begin decolonizing the injustice completely.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't don't agree that that is a reflection of
what our justice.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But that's in the letter is received by the Prosecution
Service of this.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Country, and that's list of generals, an independent position and
a part of our democracy that I have to respect.
And so the question is what I can control is
actually making sure that we pass as a parliament as
executive laws that make it really clear. Getting ready Section
twenty seven reports in that cottage industry is important. Making
sure judges can put you know, we put limits on
their sentence and discounts is important. Making sure we get
(06:57):
tough new gang laws as great, to get down on
violent crime, serious and offenders, on retail crime. Those are
the things that I can control and I think by
a larger justices and will deliver well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Okay, fast Track trans Tandsman Resources, who are one of
the people on the short list, claimed they can earn
a billion dollars a year. I'm assuming and making the
claim of a billion dollars a year. When the committee
looked at the fast Track they went, jeez, that looks good.
I'll put them on the list. Once they got on
the list, they've said that doesn't count anymore. Are you
in trouble with this, No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I mean, we've got to grow this country, and we
know we've got to get things done, and we've got
to be open to economic growth, and so our expert
panels will go through the process making sure that they
are and you know that they're considering a whole bunch
of things. Of the economic impacts, the environmental impacts. But importantly,
we are prioritizing development and growth. You know, we want
to have a high growth country and for that you've
(07:48):
got to say yes to stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And when you do, you say, there who clearly made
it up?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, I'm not sure that would be the case if.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I claim I'm making a billion dollars and then two
days after I'm on the shortlist, I claim I'm not
going to make a billion dollars. Did I make it up?
Or did I make just a bit of a whoosie?
But oh well, never mind, I'm on the shortlist.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, well, Mike, I'm not going to go into the
individual cases that are in those fast tracks, but what
I can tell you is, you know we.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
The job of the expert panel.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, that is the job of the expert panel. No, No,
I'm not saying I don't think they have I mean
they will make their assessment as to whether that's like.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Well what do they make the just have national knowledge
or something that was made up.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Betweening on whether they have a project of regional or
national significance as you know under the fast tracked laws,
and what I make no apology for that. I appreciate
there'll be controversial product project projects in there. And that's
not a bad thing because I'm interested in actually getting
things moving and things growing. We want to have higher
value growth here in New Zealand. You know, we look
at other places that are growing quicker. They got rapidly
(08:49):
rising wages relative to our performances. We've got to get
things unlocked in agreement. All.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
All of that's good stuff, but in usurping. As your
critics will tell you, some of the laws are indeed
not changing the wall so you can fast track. So
the scrutiny, isn't there One of the first companies involved
in the short list has been found wanting This opens
you up to criticism, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Well, again, that's a decision for the expert panel to
make about their assessment of that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Each end. The expert panel aren't that expert after all,
and they keep making mistakes like this, and you've got
to defeend them on programs like this, and you'll be
putting down the phone in a minute and going bloody.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Hell, no, Mike, I never do that. I never do
that on the phone, and go bloody, I'll have to
talk to you. But no, look, I mean the reality
is that there will be controversial projects. There'll be a
lot of people who won't like a bunch of projects
on that list, but we're going to do them because actually,
I think the feedback's been pretty good. People understand that
we've got to get things done. When you think about
fifty five thousand houses getting built, when you think about
(09:45):
thirty percent more growth and electricity generation of our current capacity,
that's good. When you think about one hundred and eighty
k's of new roads coming down, that's great. So look,
there'll be controversy on a number of projects. You know,
we've got an expert panel to go through the individual
is case by case, and then we need to get going.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Appreciate your time. Christopher likes Jip Prime Minister. For more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
The Prime Minster with us. Crystalph Luxom, good morning, Good morning,
Mike Lenham. Lawson will be great. He will be good
and I hope he does very well. Now listen, gum
Boot Friday, is this a stitung.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
No, this is about us making sure that we get
some good work done and we put more power to it.
And that's why we've been proud to support them, because
it's about Kiyi's dealing with the young young ky is
dealing with their mental health. We're going to have an
extra fifteen thousand counseling sessions for those young Kiwi's, which
who desperately needed at a pretty desperate time. So look,
it's a great organization. I'm proud that we're supporting them.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Why did the Order to General say what the Order
to General said?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Oh look, I mean they're an independent role, they're entitled
to their views. But look, we campaigned on this. We
then said, we said what we did, we're going to do.
We did it, and I'm proud that we have. So
you know, it's good that they look at the process
and they can raise their raise their advice on it.
But the bottom liners, we're doing it. We're backing a gun,
big Friday. They do great work and fifteen thousand young
(00:56):
chemis get counseling.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
So you're arguing, basically, we're the government, will do what
we want. Bugger the process and he can write all
the reports he wants. You're not paying attention in this
particular cost.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that, you know,
Gunboat Friday we talked about in the campaign as being
a great example of a community organization doing good work
that could be scaled more and unique work. Actually, and
I spoke to a number of young people, you know,
and we put the money into that organization. It was
also something that you saily first wanted to do both
both parties, and I'm pleased that we are because I'm
(01:27):
getting access to county.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
I defend your right to do it because you're the government.
But Matt Doucy did he throws officials under the bus
when he said, and I quote, Throughout the process, the
Minister has sought and received assurances from officials that the
implementation option chosen by the Ministry of Health is compliant
with government procedural rules. That simply isn't true.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Oh well, look, I think you know it was unusual
in the sense of we had campaigned on it. We
believe it's a great organization. We think it's a good
investment in young people, and you know, the new Order
to General can write their report, can say that there's
some things that they think we could do better, but
the bottom line is it's a good organization. We're backing up.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
What are the odds of you stepping into Wellington Council?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, we're pretty concerned about it. If I'm honest, it
doesn't look great. Their long term plan looks at risk.
It's something we're monitoring really closely. I know some of them,
Brown in particular, is all over it, and we'll continue
to monitor it and if we have to make an intervention,
we will.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
What would have to happen for you to move well.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I think we want to understand, you know. I know
he'll be looking very closely at the long term plan,
which is at risk under the failure to be able
to sell the airport. She is willing to the airport
and he'll want a pathway and to make sure that
they're doing everything they can to be financially responsible to
keep rates as low as possible.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Can I quote you the Solicitor General in their advice
to the prosecution service at the Police. The guidelines asked
prosecutors to think carefully about particular decisions. We're a person,
whether the victim or defend it is MARII what does
that mean?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, I mean what I'd say is that prosecution decisions
should be color blind. But also the prosecution guidelines are
independently issued by this list of general. They are someone
you know and I really can't get You should ask her,
But I mean, I can't really get into it because
I've got to respect the other elements of our democracy,
the judiciary, and I've got to focus on what I
(03:20):
can control, and what we are controlling is restoring law
and order.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I thought you controlled whether we had race based policy
in this country.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Well, we made a decision very clear. What we have
controlled as tough new gang laws. We've limited, you know,
sentencing discounts. We've actually stopped the cottage industry around the
preparation of Section twenty seven cultural reports, and you know,
we've got.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
A very race prosecution decision should be with race. That's
more justice is the Solicitor general thumbing who knows that you.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Well, again, I mean it's an independent role. I encourage
you to ask those questions to her. I really you've
got to can't get into it because I've got to
respect the.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
But here's my problem. I'm listening to you as a
government who I thought was running the country with a
series of fairly clear objectives around race, and you say
one thing and another thing is done, and I don't
understand that.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Well, again, what I can do is we can focus
on what we can control, which is the executive.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Saying, by the way, what we would like to do
in this country is have non race based policies. But
I'm not sure we'll be able to because I'm expecting
pushback from the public service or independent bodies.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Well, I think we've had good support from much of
the public service. I appreciate not everyone's on board of
what we're trying to do, but the reality is the
vast majority have and they've been actually supporting us getting
our gender.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Out the door.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I think when you look at those new gangals, that's
going to help us cut down on violent crime. When
you look at the stop in the section twenty seven
College reports, with Harry, Tam and Coe preparing them, we've
stopped that. We're putting limits on judges and senencing discounts.
You still always be a need for people to consider
their individual cases and make the case to judges. But
you know, we would expect you know that these guidelines
(04:56):
actually are designed to make sure there's good outcomes for
people irrespective theirs, ethnicity, and frankly, prosecution should be as
I said, color lines.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So do you know that's important? Do you know who
Anaya Tanu Nai is?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
No idea.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
These were a group of people that were consulted by
the Solicitor General. They arrived in twenty eighteen as a
result of Andrew Little's Justice Summit and they had a
meeting and they want to recognize the justice system as
settler colonial and to begin decolonizing the brackets in justice system.
Those are the people who are advising the Solicitor General
(05:29):
before she writes to the Police Prosecution Service. Does that
worry you.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Well, I mean that's just not a view that I
would hold. I mean, I think we've got a justice
system that it needs to make sure that it prosecutes
people in a color bline way. And actually we don't
actually get well, well, we need to, I mean that's yeah,
but we don't of it well I'm not sure I
agree with that. I appreciate there's prosecution guidelines independently prepared
by an independence listed general and a branch of democracy
(05:56):
that I have to respect, and I can't get into
per se. But what I can do is make sure
that because you know, they want to make sure prosecution
scitions are made free from political influence. I get that,
you know that's part of our democracy.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well you want to how is it you're so keen
to adhere to the political but not to the race.
So you don't want to get you some self in
trouble for political but you don't mind getting yourself in
trouble for race. Well, I mean you can't avoid these instructions.
I mean they're explicit to recognize the justice system is
settler colonial and to begin decolonizing the injustice completely.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I don't don't agree that that is a reflection of
what our justice.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
But that's in the letter is received by the Prosecution
Service of this.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Country, and that's list of generals, an independent position and
a part of our democracy that I have to respect.
And so the question is what I can control is
actually making sure that we pass as a parliament as
executive laws that make it really clear. Getting ready Section
twenty seven reports in that cottage industry is important. Making
sure judges can put you know, we put limits on
their sentence and discounts is important. Making sure we get
(06:57):
tough new gang laws as great, to get down on
violent crime, serious and offenders, on retail crime. Those are
the things that I can control and I think by
a larger justices and will deliver well.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Okay, fast Track trans Tandsman Resources, who are one of
the people on the short list, claimed they can earn
a billion dollars a year. I'm assuming and making the
claim of a billion dollars a year. When the committee
looked at the fast Track they went, jeez, that looks good.
I'll put them on the list. Once they got on
the list, they've said that doesn't count anymore. Are you
in trouble with this, No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I mean, we've got to grow this country, and we
know we've got to get things done, and we've got
to be open to economic growth, and so our expert
panels will go through the process making sure that they
are and you know that they're considering a whole bunch
of things. Of the economic impacts, the environmental impacts. But importantly,
we are prioritizing development and growth. You know, we want
to have a high growth country and for that you've
(07:48):
got to say yes to stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
And when you do, you say, there who clearly made
it up?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Well, I'm not sure that would be the case if.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I claim I'm making a billion dollars and then two
days after I'm on the shortlist, I claim I'm not
going to make a billion dollars. Did I make it up?
Or did I make just a bit of a whoosie?
But oh well, never mind, I'm on the shortlist.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Well, well, Mike, I'm not going to go into the
individual cases that are in those fast tracks, but what
I can tell you is, you know we.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
The job of the expert panel.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, that is the job of the expert panel. No, No,
I'm not saying I don't think they have I mean
they will make their assessment as to whether that's like.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Well what do they make the just have national knowledge
or something that was made up.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Betweening on whether they have a project of regional or
national significance as you know under the fast tracked laws,
and what I make no apology for that. I appreciate
there'll be controversial product project projects in there. And that's
not a bad thing because I'm interested in actually getting
things moving and things growing. We want to have higher
value growth here in New Zealand. You know, we look
at other places that are growing quicker. They got rapidly
(08:49):
rising wages relative to our performances. We've got to get
things unlocked in agreement. All.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
All of that's good stuff, but in usurping. As your
critics will tell you, some of the laws are indeed
not changing the wall so you can fast track. So
the scrutiny, isn't there One of the first companies involved
in the short list has been found wanting This opens
you up to criticism, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Well, again, that's a decision for the expert panel to
make about their assessment of that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Each end. The expert panel aren't that expert after all,
and they keep making mistakes like this, and you've got
to defeend them on programs like this, and you'll be
putting down the phone in a minute and going bloody.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Hell, no, Mike, I never do that. I never do
that on the phone, and go bloody, I'll have to
talk to you. But no, look, I mean the reality
is that there will be controversial projects. There'll be a
lot of people who won't like a bunch of projects
on that list, but we're going to do them because actually,
I think the feedback's been pretty good. People understand that
we've got to get things done. When you think about
fifty five thousand houses getting built, when you think about
(09:45):
thirty percent more growth and electricity generation of our current capacity,
that's good. When you think about one hundred and eighty
k's of new roads coming down, that's great. So look,
there'll be controversy on a number of projects. You know,
we've got an expert panel to go through the individual
is case by case, and then we need to get going.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Appreciate your time. Christopher likes Jip Prime Minister. For more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!