September 7, 2025 • 9 mins
The Prime Minister's surprised Labour lost in the Tamaki Makaurau by-election.
Te Pati Maori's Oriini Kaipara won the seat over Peeni Henare by three thousand votes.
The by-election was triggered by the death of MP Takutai Tarsh Kemp.
Total turnout was around 27.1 percent.
Christopher Luxon told Mike Hosking he thought Labour would trounce Te Pati Maori, as they've had no policies and have only been criticising.
Luxon says he also felt bad for Peeni Henare with Chris Hipkins not showing up to the party.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Monday morning, Prime Minister Crystoper Luxe and Joints. Very good
morning to you. What a get to be with you.
You were at the rugby and that was where Scott
Robinson on before. But that was a thing, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It was?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It was a moment good.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Proper test match, wasn't it. And I had the great
privilege of meeting the all blacks in their change rooms afterwards,
and man, some of them have been what do.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You say to them in that because they didn't you know,
they look at you. Some will love you, some will
hate you. So you can confirm that all all blacks no,
love you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
No, but they're all very good. I mean it's actually
just you just you know, I'm always very interested in
what do they do with their process, right, I mean,
like they're going into ice spars and they're going into
spas after treatments and you know, they're big guys and
they do a lot of conditioning, a lot of you know,
and they all say, you know, they feel like they've
been in a car crash the day after.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, it was a tough game. Did you raise your
niggle with them? No?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What's your name?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
My god, you're doing this if I can't believe it, well,
I mean I was sitting there watching the All Black game. Okay,
I've got to tell everyone now because you're just going
to embarrass me in front of the country, as you
tend to do. And I basically got out of my seat,
twisted to go down onto the onto the paddock and
then into the change rooms. And as I came out
of the seat, twisted and tweak my knee a little
(01:10):
bit done, you know, but you feel a real when
you're sharp in the all black change room. And these
guys have been smashed up and done a lot of stuff,
and I'm just sort of trying to pretend not to hobble.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Did you did you Limpen?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
No? No, I didn't. I really really toughened up, and
I really.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, they test will be. You're doing a postcab meeting
precidate today, so that it's quite a walk. It's quite
a walk, hasn't it down down the stairs? They could
be an old managery the by election. The fact that
nobody turned out has got to be of great concern
to us all, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well it surprised me completely because I thought labor would
trounced to Party Mara and they got killed, you know,
two to one, and basically they got three thousand votes
out of what sixty five thousand potential voters in that seat.
So surprised me a bit. I thought, maybe, you know,
I think at the end of the day, they haven't
had any policies. They've just been criticizing, but haven't actually
come forward with any policies or ideas. And I felt
(02:06):
sorry for Penny Henriway because you know, Hipkins wasn't even
in the party on Saturday night. They're supporting his team. No,
but but regardless, it was a real shock, Actually, do
we have a participation issue in this guy? I mean,
you can dismiss it to an extent it was a
by election, but you can't dismiss twenty percent. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know why that was such a low turnout
and that Marie electorate, because as I said, I think
(02:27):
it's got probably sixty five thousand potential voters. It'll be
similar to the general electorate sort of composition of voting,
and with all that machinery, and you know, the two
parties that were involved in that, you would have thought
they would have activated you know that vote out and
got it, got it turning out. It's just you know,
you notice in local government, you know we've had probably
what thirty five forty percent voter turnout. As I keep saying,
(02:48):
you demockty is pretty precious thing, and if you don't
show up to sort of vote for it, you can't
get what you've deserved.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Keyan Clark in China last week, you are the ex
Prime minister and you were invited to a similar thing.
Did you go?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
No? Personally, I wouldn't know. I think why, Well, I
think once I leave politics, you know i'll be I'm
not in politics, so yeah, there's no need for me
to be involved in that. Would it be my personal call?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Did the China thing have anything or would the China
thing have anything to do with it? I thought they may.
I thought they both made a mistake. They shouldn't have
been there.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, look, I mean I think those are decisions for
them to make. I mean, from our point of view,
we had representation from our embassy there, as you would
expect as to the Australians. But you know, I think
if i'd been invited, I wouldn't have gone.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, Paris, did you watch Peter speech yesterday.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I did.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Actually, yeah, it was moderately entertaining. Yeah, it went for
over an hour. He wants out of Paris. Seyma wants
out of Paris. Sixty six percent of the government want
out of Paris.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
How do you handle that, well, I mean the government,
the coalition government today. I mean they might have different
party positions going forward, let's see where they get to.
But you know, the coalition government has made the correct
assessment that actually, if you want to come out of
Paris and join Libya, Yemen and you know Iran and
now recently the US is the only four countries that
are not part of it, that is a massive punishment
(04:05):
to our farmers and it's going to make all New
Zealanders poorer because I can tell you what's going to
happen is that the countries that we compete with, and
the large multinational countries that we sell our products to,
particularly think dairy, They're going to kick us off our shelves.
They'd like nothing more than that to happen. So we
ain't going to punish the farmers and we ain't going
to make New Zealand poorer.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But equally, if it wasn't for the farmers because your
reference trade here and it's tied up in trade deals.
But as an exercise in saving the planet, it's not working.
I mean that's just a statement of fact, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, I mean we are doing we are prioritizing economic
growth in this country, and I've been really clear about that.
We can. If you look at farming, for example, our
farming emissions are coming down. That's because actually our farmers
are doing things like you know, the work at Urice
on breeding programs. There's a whole bunch of technology, genuine
technology and innovation. It's making them more productive. So actually
(04:54):
we want to be able to you know, that we
should be able to get more farming done in this
country given the land that we've got, and also be
able to lower emissions at the same time. And we've
got we've got a series of really good pipeline of
innovation now under what's called this Agri zero project, stream
of real stuff that makes a big difference.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So do you still believe in twenty fifty you still
believe in that zero twenty s if you.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Look at our if you look at our plans at
this point, you know, the latest plan suggested we might
even do it six years early. I mean, like, so,
what people haven't understood is the agriculture part of it.
You know, they have really been adopting technology, innovation, and
actually emissions have been coming down at a great rate.
You know, it won't be difficult for agriculture to deal
with it. But you know, I'm all I'm just saying
(05:37):
is yeah, it's an you know, if you really want
to pull it out, I'm telling you right now, it'll
be a trade barrier immediately.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, the a WUS it wasn't this time last week,
but it was it was tomorrow last week. The a
WUS thing that turned into a thing. The meat is
the media against you? Oh that story was? That story
turned weird for reasons I couldn't get my head around,
apart from the fact that they don't like you and
somehow want to hobble you.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, I think the point I was, Yeah, I mean
that's I don't comment on it because I just think
it's a waste of time. You know, my job is
to respect of what the media say or think. My
job was to crack on and actually just find a
way to win and to find a way to make
sure we get the country sorted. So yeah, I mean
I had the same reaction. I just looked at that
and I thought, I read the transcript of what you
and I talked about, and then I saw all the headlines.
(06:22):
I saw all the question that came after all that.
I thought, Jeep, is you know that's we've misread something here,
because the bottom line was that was just something that yeah,
I'd said, it had been flagged for a while.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The reality was today was the day that we were
they were launching that they were very excited. Was the
biggest tech conference we had in the country. It was
a positive story when a national wants to invest here,
as it was a positive story. A couple of days
later when I Kia announced their opening date and I'd
met with the owners of I Care in Netherlands as
well to talk about Resource Management Act and things that
(06:53):
we can do to encourage them to do more. You've
heard Costco come out on the back of Nicolas stuff
saying they want to do stuff. So there's some there
are good things going on, you know, as you know,
there's some challenges for sure in Auckland, but actually you've
got to report also the good stuff too.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Do you worry that people. There's a couple of op
eds over the weekend. Houghton did one on Friday in
The Herald, and you can dismiss Houghton for a while,
but then Damian Grant did one yesterday as well. Do
you worry between that sort of commentary and what we
saw by way of reaction to the AWS announcement that
I don't know what it is that you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
No, not at all. I mean I think, yeah, there's
nothing you know. I mean, I don't know Matthew and
I think I met him twice and at functions or
something passing through, And yeah, I don't think I've probably
ever had a good article from Mathew from the very beginning,
so I wouldn't. I don't. Yeah, I only take advice
from people that you know, offense from people I take
advice from, as I keep saying, So for me, it's
no problem. So I know why I came to politics
(07:49):
four years ago was because you can sit on the
sidelines or you actually get involved in actually try and
change the joints and actually get it, realizing it's potential.
So yeah, yeah, I can talk about media, whether I
get any fear treatment or not. But I just think
it's not particularly helpful this one.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
What's the timeline? Simon Watts refused to come on this
program last week because he was in Australia, yes, doing
the two plus even the formal meeting, so he was
an Australia dare and we wanted him on what do
we want him on? About five thirty? I think we
wanted him on Australian time, acceptable or not?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, I try and get to you at one thirty
in the morning in Europe, so I think if I
can do it, I think all my teams should make
the effort to do it well.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So because Steven Joyce when he was on the program
never missed once, and he was in China a number
of times, so he was at one or two in
the morning, You've been on a one or two in
the morning. So the message needs to be sent to
some ministers that five thirty in the morning is not
really that early.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
After all, I don't know his circumstances. There was genuinely
reason why.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I'm not sure what sort of circumstances you can have
at five thirty in the morning. That a problem. At
four to thirty every morning, you're up at three, so exactly.
So I'm glad. I'm glad we got that sort of ad.
Do you worried about the door.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
About the New Zealand dollar value of well, lack of Yeah,
A lot of it's about us getting getting our mojo back.
I mean, we've got to get those fundamentals moving in
the right direction. Obviously the low dollars helping us with
our exports, but as obviously you know, as a worry
on the import side of it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
What do you think it should sit out.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I don't have a view on that. I mean, I'm sure, yeah, yeah,
Should you have a view on it? No, I think
I think I've just got to focus on getting the
fundamentals right. If I can get as I said, inflation
and interest rates and growth and unemployment down, that's really
what I've got to deal with on the dollar, as
in a market mechanism will sort itself out, all right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Good luck on the walk this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you mate, Thank you for that making that'll be
the next exclusive from ZIB that will be on the
news by by the next two minutes.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Nice to see it.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
For more from the Mic asking Breakfast listen live to
news Talks, it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Monday morning, Prime Minister Crystoper Luxe and Joints. Very good
morning to you. What a get to be with you.
You were at the rugby and that was where Scott
Robinson on before. But that was a thing, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It was?
Speaker 1 (00:09):
It was a moment good.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Proper test match, wasn't it. And I had the great
privilege of meeting the all blacks in their change rooms afterwards,
and man, some of them have been what do.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You say to them in that because they didn't you know,
they look at you. Some will love you, some will
hate you. So you can confirm that all all blacks no,
love you.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
No, but they're all very good. I mean it's actually
just you just you know, I'm always very interested in
what do they do with their process, right, I mean,
like they're going into ice spars and they're going into
spas after treatments and you know, they're big guys and
they do a lot of conditioning, a lot of you know,
and they all say, you know, they feel like they've
been in a car crash the day after.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, it was a tough game. Did you raise your
niggle with them? No?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What's your name?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
My god, you're doing this if I can't believe it, well,
I mean I was sitting there watching the All Black game. Okay,
I've got to tell everyone now because you're just going
to embarrass me in front of the country, as you
tend to do. And I basically got out of my seat,
twisted to go down onto the onto the paddock and
then into the change rooms. And as I came out
of the seat, twisted and tweak my knee a little
(01:10):
bit done, you know, but you feel a real when
you're sharp in the all black change room. And these
guys have been smashed up and done a lot of stuff,
and I'm just sort of trying to pretend not to hobble.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Did you did you Limpen?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
No? No, I didn't. I really really toughened up, and
I really.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Well, they test will be. You're doing a postcab meeting
precidate today, so that it's quite a walk. It's quite
a walk, hasn't it down down the stairs? They could
be an old managery the by election. The fact that
nobody turned out has got to be of great concern
to us all, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well it surprised me completely because I thought labor would
trounced to Party Mara and they got killed, you know,
two to one, and basically they got three thousand votes
out of what sixty five thousand potential voters in that seat.
So surprised me a bit. I thought, maybe, you know,
I think at the end of the day, they haven't
had any policies. They've just been criticizing, but haven't actually
come forward with any policies or ideas. And I felt
(02:06):
sorry for Penny Henriway because you know, Hipkins wasn't even
in the party on Saturday night. They're supporting his team. No,
but but regardless, it was a real shock, Actually, do
we have a participation issue in this guy? I mean,
you can dismiss it to an extent it was a
by election, but you can't dismiss twenty percent. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know why that was such a low turnout
and that Marie electorate, because as I said, I think
(02:27):
it's got probably sixty five thousand potential voters. It'll be
similar to the general electorate sort of composition of voting,
and with all that machinery, and you know, the two
parties that were involved in that, you would have thought
they would have activated you know that vote out and
got it, got it turning out. It's just you know,
you notice in local government, you know we've had probably
what thirty five forty percent voter turnout. As I keep saying,
(02:48):
you demockty is pretty precious thing, and if you don't
show up to sort of vote for it, you can't
get what you've deserved.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Keyan Clark in China last week, you are the ex
Prime minister and you were invited to a similar thing.
Did you go?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
No? Personally, I wouldn't know. I think why, Well, I
think once I leave politics, you know i'll be I'm
not in politics, so yeah, there's no need for me
to be involved in that. Would it be my personal call?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Did the China thing have anything or would the China
thing have anything to do with it? I thought they may.
I thought they both made a mistake. They shouldn't have
been there.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, look, I mean I think those are decisions for
them to make. I mean, from our point of view,
we had representation from our embassy there, as you would
expect as to the Australians. But you know, I think
if i'd been invited, I wouldn't have gone.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Okay, Paris, did you watch Peter speech yesterday.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I did.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Actually, yeah, it was moderately entertaining. Yeah, it went for
over an hour. He wants out of Paris. Seyma wants
out of Paris. Sixty six percent of the government want
out of Paris.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
How do you handle that, well, I mean the government,
the coalition government today. I mean they might have different
party positions going forward, let's see where they get to.
But you know, the coalition government has made the correct
assessment that actually, if you want to come out of
Paris and join Libya, Yemen and you know Iran and
now recently the US is the only four countries that
are not part of it, that is a massive punishment
(04:05):
to our farmers and it's going to make all New
Zealanders poorer because I can tell you what's going to
happen is that the countries that we compete with, and
the large multinational countries that we sell our products to,
particularly think dairy, They're going to kick us off our shelves.
They'd like nothing more than that to happen. So we
ain't going to punish the farmers and we ain't going
to make New Zealand poorer.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
But equally, if it wasn't for the farmers because your
reference trade here and it's tied up in trade deals.
But as an exercise in saving the planet, it's not working.
I mean that's just a statement of fact, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, I mean we are doing we are prioritizing economic
growth in this country, and I've been really clear about that.
We can. If you look at farming, for example, our
farming emissions are coming down. That's because actually our farmers
are doing things like you know, the work at Urice
on breeding programs. There's a whole bunch of technology, genuine
technology and innovation. It's making them more productive. So actually
(04:54):
we want to be able to you know, that we
should be able to get more farming done in this
country given the land that we've got, and also be
able to lower emissions at the same time. And we've
got we've got a series of really good pipeline of
innovation now under what's called this Agri zero project, stream
of real stuff that makes a big difference.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So do you still believe in twenty fifty you still
believe in that zero twenty s if you.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Look at our if you look at our plans at
this point, you know, the latest plan suggested we might
even do it six years early. I mean, like, so,
what people haven't understood is the agriculture part of it.
You know, they have really been adopting technology, innovation, and
actually emissions have been coming down at a great rate.
You know, it won't be difficult for agriculture to deal
with it. But you know, I'm all I'm just saying
(05:37):
is yeah, it's an you know, if you really want
to pull it out, I'm telling you right now, it'll
be a trade barrier immediately.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, the a WUS it wasn't this time last week,
but it was it was tomorrow last week. The a
WUS thing that turned into a thing. The meat is
the media against you? Oh that story was? That story
turned weird for reasons I couldn't get my head around,
apart from the fact that they don't like you and
somehow want to hobble you.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Well, I think the point I was, Yeah, I mean
that's I don't comment on it because I just think
it's a waste of time. You know, my job is
to respect of what the media say or think. My
job was to crack on and actually just find a
way to win and to find a way to make
sure we get the country sorted. So yeah, I mean
I had the same reaction. I just looked at that
and I thought, I read the transcript of what you
and I talked about, and then I saw all the headlines.
(06:22):
I saw all the question that came after all that.
I thought, Jeep, is you know that's we've misread something here,
because the bottom line was that was just something that yeah,
I'd said, it had been flagged for a while.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
You know.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The reality was today was the day that we were
they were launching that they were very excited. Was the
biggest tech conference we had in the country. It was
a positive story when a national wants to invest here,
as it was a positive story. A couple of days
later when I Kia announced their opening date and I'd
met with the owners of I Care in Netherlands as
well to talk about Resource Management Act and things that
(06:53):
we can do to encourage them to do more. You've
heard Costco come out on the back of Nicolas stuff
saying they want to do stuff. So there's some there
are good things going on, you know, as you know,
there's some challenges for sure in Auckland, but actually you've
got to report also the good stuff too.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Do you worry that people. There's a couple of op
eds over the weekend. Houghton did one on Friday in
The Herald, and you can dismiss Houghton for a while,
but then Damian Grant did one yesterday as well. Do
you worry between that sort of commentary and what we
saw by way of reaction to the AWS announcement that
I don't know what it is that you're in trouble.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
No, not at all. I mean I think, yeah, there's
nothing you know. I mean, I don't know Matthew and
I think I met him twice and at functions or
something passing through, And yeah, I don't think I've probably
ever had a good article from Mathew from the very beginning,
so I wouldn't. I don't. Yeah, I only take advice
from people that you know, offense from people I take
advice from, as I keep saying, So for me, it's
no problem. So I know why I came to politics
(07:49):
four years ago was because you can sit on the
sidelines or you actually get involved in actually try and
change the joints and actually get it, realizing it's potential.
So yeah, yeah, I can talk about media, whether I
get any fear treatment or not. But I just think
it's not particularly helpful this one.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
What's the timeline? Simon Watts refused to come on this
program last week because he was in Australia, yes, doing
the two plus even the formal meeting, so he was
an Australia dare and we wanted him on what do
we want him on? About five thirty? I think we
wanted him on Australian time, acceptable or not?
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Well, I try and get to you at one thirty
in the morning in Europe, so I think if I
can do it, I think all my teams should make
the effort to do it well.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
So because Steven Joyce when he was on the program
never missed once, and he was in China a number
of times, so he was at one or two in
the morning, You've been on a one or two in
the morning. So the message needs to be sent to
some ministers that five thirty in the morning is not
really that early.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
After all, I don't know his circumstances. There was genuinely
reason why.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I'm not sure what sort of circumstances you can have
at five thirty in the morning. That a problem. At
four to thirty every morning, you're up at three, so exactly.
So I'm glad. I'm glad we got that sort of ad.
Do you worried about the door.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
About the New Zealand dollar value of well, lack of Yeah,
A lot of it's about us getting getting our mojo back.
I mean, we've got to get those fundamentals moving in
the right direction. Obviously the low dollars helping us with
our exports, but as obviously you know, as a worry
on the import side of it.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
What do you think it should sit out.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I don't have a view on that. I mean, I'm sure, yeah, yeah,
Should you have a view on it? No, I think
I think I've just got to focus on getting the
fundamentals right. If I can get as I said, inflation
and interest rates and growth and unemployment down, that's really
what I've got to deal with on the dollar, as
in a market mechanism will sort itself out, all right.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Good luck on the walk this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Thank you mate, Thank you for that making that'll be
the next exclusive from ZIB that will be on the
news by by the next two minutes.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Nice to see it.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
For more from the Mic asking Breakfast listen live to
news Talks, it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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