The Prime Minister believes natural gas could be found if investors are encouraged to look for it.
Cabinet has agreed to cut regulation, reverse a ban on oil and gas exploration, and review the electricity market's performance.
Opposition to the proposal believes there isn't anything to be found.
But Christopher Luxon told Mike Hosking that investors have just been avoiding New Zealand because of its anti-exploration attitude.
He says a change to the settings will mean the companies have more confidence to invest in finding oil and gas.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Juesday morning, Crystal Luxon joins us morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
To you, good morning today.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Very well, indeed, give us the what I didn't get
out of your press conference yesterday. This business of LNG
and clearing the regulation that Simming and kept talking about
in the winter of twenty five. Why don't we just
speak English? Why does it take you twelve months to
clear red tape and regulation to bring a bit of
gas into the country.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, I think I'll be faster than one year. There's
two parts to it. Most of the time, frankly, is
getting it's quite complex time to get the engineering in place,
whether it's put into a port, whether it's actually put
into an offshore you know, a place that can pipe
it in from a ship. So you know there's actually
an engineering solution that takes a little bit of time
to get right. Well, we're working now with the Guess
(00:40):
Industry Company and that basically has to get all the
regulations cleaned up so we can then push it through
Parliament and get the legislation sorted in less than six months.
And then what we do from there is in get
obviously into the engineering solution and get it in place
next year. So you know that's really important because you know,
as you know, we've just had a massive you know
less loss of you know, a guess a New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, yes, indeed, and this was not to properly yesterday either.
Once you get LNG into the country, does that, given
the infrastructural issues concerned, does that then become a permanent
and ongoing part of the supply mix.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Could well be. But what we also hope overturning the
oil and gas band is that will get local exploration
happening as well. But at the moment, the global spot
price for LNG would be cheaper over so the editors
and local domestic spot price for gas. Obviously there's such
a shortage of it here in New Zealand, so we
want to have that flexibility and that security by actually
(01:36):
having an ability to import LNG in fifty countries do
around the world. We shouldn't have to because frankly, we've
got gas here in New Zealand that we should be.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Able to pull out domestically, do you Because part of
the counter argument on gas is yes, I know labor,
I get all of that, and I understand it, but
there's been a lot of exploration up until that point,
and not a lot of gas found.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I just say like that before the gas band
have and I think it was like eighty eight thousand
square kilometers of exploration acreage under permit day. You know,
it's only six thousand, and there's been a massive you
know with that band that's had very much in an
effect where if you're a potential global investor wanting to
do exploration New Zealand, you hear the band, you say,
all cheap as I'm out of here, I'll go to
(02:18):
one of the other countries around the world that actually
wants me. And actually, to be honest, my insidda, when
I sat down with the investors, high energy prices was
one of the major concerns of potential international investors into
New Zealand as well. So yeah, I don't buy that argument.
We should be exploring as much domestic gas as we
possibly can and also have the flexibility to import it
when we desperately need it, and that as an option.
(02:38):
So the point turn all the taps on.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
The only point I'm making is exploring, isn't finding. Exploring
is just looking.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Sure, But I think when you've sent the message pretty
chaostically into an international investor market, to say yeah, we
don't really like you and or oil and gas exploration.
There's plenty of other countries to go do that when
you've got choices, and we've got to make the environment
to give people confidence to do that. And that's why
we are changing those settings, setting them out so that
(03:08):
people can come in and actually have confidence that they're
not going to be disrupted and have the whole world
turned upside down on them again.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Okay, and given you guys went to some great lens,
particularly swimming, and to say this is a supply side issue,
increase the supply will solve the problem. Does that then
mean you're comfortable with the Gen Taylor mix. In other words,
they're not gouging, they're not robber barons that if you
get supply it will solve the problem.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah. Look, I mean he's going to look into that now.
There's some work being done now, I think by the
Commerce Commission as well as the work that he wants
to do to make sure we've got the settings right.
But I agree with him, but it is definitely a
supply problem. I mean, when you kill gas and we
live in a country that is in a record dry year,
you've got to have gas for decades. I mean that
is reality. It's a transitionary fuel source for us. Until
(03:53):
we double the amount of renewables, that'd be great. We've
got to do that, and we also have to have gas.
So it's really just opening up all the taps as
much as possible, throw the kitchen sink at it, and
do everything we can to get abundant, affordable energy in
place in New Zealand. I mean, there's no reason why
we shouldn't, and we have plenty of natural resources in
this country.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Are you active enough as a shareholder with the Gen
Taylors or not?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I think we are, and I think you an
I on their level of profitability, But they also need
confidence to invest because we want them and I know
they will huge amounts of capital on actually doubling that
renewable electricity in GS thermal and wind and solar and
all the stuff that needs to happen. So, as I said,
it is about making sure that we're giving people confidence,
and that's what the announcement was about yesterday, was to
(04:39):
say to many of those international investors who want to
do the offshore engineering solution for LNG importation, who want
to do exploration for gas who actually want to know
that I can go a huge number of the projects
that Chris Bishop's looking at on the fast track approvals
that people who want to do renewable projects, but actually
the consenting times insane. It's absolutely insane. So let's change
(04:59):
the rules, can extend the consents.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
All that good stuff on the fast trike whind you
back down on the ministerial sign of.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I think it's just sort of trying to find
the balance to sort of say that makes it certainly
a lot less legally complex, but it won't slow it
down because there was always going to a panel before
it would come to a minister anyway. And now that
panel actually does the reviewer makes the decisions, and I
think we've sort of got the balance right between the
one stop shop nature of it, where you deal with
all the legislation and you consent not just resource management,
(05:30):
you know, if it's got a wildlife impact or something
else that's dealt with, and it gives the public some
confidence the process is fair and we actually get the
projects built.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Wuld you check it out?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But no, not at all. We always said we'd take
some sensible changes, so that that change. I think is
a sensible change where it actually you know, we everyone
get confidence in the process that it's going to be
fair and straight. It'll be quick, and the panels have
to prioritize the economic consider just for.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
People who were moaning yesterday were the same people moaning previously.
You're never going to make them happy. Gary Taylor of
the Environmental see that he doesn't like it. I mean,
you build a bridge, he hates you. Squash a froggy
hates you. That's who they are. So whether the minister
takes it off or a panel are making any difference.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, I mean the key thing is we've just turned
this place into obstruction economy. So we've got to get
things moving and it will be a game change it
And I appreciate there's lots of people protests to your
places I go to and it's all very interesting, but
we are down. We'll going to get things built and
so we've got the balance right here. And yes we've
made a change around panel versus ministerial decision making, but
at the end of the day, it's just that unblocking
(06:30):
the system getting moving for goodness.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Sake, Okay, nurses, I asked Chris Bishop. He didn't know,
but I watched this job fair over the weekend. Here
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of unemployed nurses turn up.
They're immigrants. They arrive in the country with a visa
because we're desperately short of nurses. They can't get a
job because no one's employing nurses. How is there such
a chronic mismatch between the visas we're handing out and
(06:53):
the jobs we're not giving.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, So on nurses for back up a little bit,
because it has changed from sort of how it was
in the last few years. There's actually been a massive
improvement and nurse recruitment. We've got over I think it's
twenty nine thousand nurses in the system now and make
sure a five thousand nurses from we had last year.
So we've actually been able to recruit a lot of nurses.
We've also had less attrition and we've had a lot
less vacancies. All the vacancies have been dropping. So the
(07:19):
international nurses that came in under the previous governments opened
green list for general nurses that basically the other folk
that you're talking about, there's still got to be a
role for them. We've got to find a role for
them because we're still short and specialist areas and regional
New Zealand in different places. But we also have got
a huge emphasis and a good quantity coming through of
home grid nurses. That has to be our priority in
(07:40):
this case as well. So we still need specialist areas,
general nurses and specialist areas which we hope to be
able to deliver, but we also need some very specialist
nurses in general, which is why they still stay on
our green list in that way. But the problem that
you know when we opened it in green list under
the previous administration, we've brought in a whole lot of
general news as well. Actually, we've done a very good
(08:02):
job of recruitment, particularly in the last nine months or twelve.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Months quickly on the Pacific where you're heading today. The
alban Eazy idea to run the specific policing initiative. Are
we on board with it? Do we like it? And
is it to quill China?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, look at very supportive you know, well, I'm very
supportive of it. We'll obviously talk more about it in
the week, but you know, we have a theorius of
policing programs both Australia and New Zealand, often jointly, often
separately with individual Pacific countries for many years. We actually
think it's important that the Pacific country chiefs of police
sort of collectively can build their policing capability. You're seeing
(08:36):
it now, you know, you saw it when I went,
when I went to Fiji. You know, a year's worth
of messam htamine stored in the ocean, floating in the
ocean off the coast of Fiji going into Australia. A
whole year supply for Australian drug trade. We've got a
big problem with transnational crime, drugs, narcotics. And yes, we
want to work with like minded countries in the Pacific
on issues of policing and security.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
All right, go, well, appreciate it very much. Christ But
lux In Prime Minister off to the Pacific island Befohim
before he comes back on Sunday, then flicks back up
to Malaysia, which means I don't think he's going to
be with us next week. For more from the Mic
Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Juesday morning, Crystal Luxon joins us morning.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
To you, good morning today.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Very well, indeed, give us the what I didn't get
out of your press conference yesterday. This business of LNG
and clearing the regulation that Simming and kept talking about
in the winter of twenty five. Why don't we just
speak English? Why does it take you twelve months to
clear red tape and regulation to bring a bit of
gas into the country.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Well, I think I'll be faster than one year. There's
two parts to it. Most of the time, frankly, is
getting it's quite complex time to get the engineering in place,
whether it's put into a port, whether it's actually put
into an offshore you know, a place that can pipe
it in from a ship. So you know there's actually
an engineering solution that takes a little bit of time
to get right. Well, we're working now with the Guess
(00:40):
Industry Company and that basically has to get all the
regulations cleaned up so we can then push it through
Parliament and get the legislation sorted in less than six months.
And then what we do from there is in get
obviously into the engineering solution and get it in place
next year. So you know that's really important because you know,
as you know, we've just had a massive you know
less loss of you know, a guess a New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, yes, indeed, and this was not to properly yesterday either.
Once you get LNG into the country, does that, given
the infrastructural issues concerned, does that then become a permanent
and ongoing part of the supply mix.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Could well be. But what we also hope overturning the
oil and gas band is that will get local exploration
happening as well. But at the moment, the global spot
price for LNG would be cheaper over so the editors
and local domestic spot price for gas. Obviously there's such
a shortage of it here in New Zealand, so we
want to have that flexibility and that security by actually
(01:36):
having an ability to import LNG in fifty countries do
around the world. We shouldn't have to because frankly, we've
got gas here in New Zealand that we should be.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Able to pull out domestically, do you Because part of
the counter argument on gas is yes, I know labor,
I get all of that, and I understand it, but
there's been a lot of exploration up until that point,
and not a lot of gas found.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, I just say like that before the gas band
have and I think it was like eighty eight thousand
square kilometers of exploration acreage under permit day. You know,
it's only six thousand, and there's been a massive you
know with that band that's had very much in an
effect where if you're a potential global investor wanting to
do exploration New Zealand, you hear the band, you say,
all cheap as I'm out of here, I'll go to
(02:18):
one of the other countries around the world that actually
wants me. And actually, to be honest, my insidda, when
I sat down with the investors, high energy prices was
one of the major concerns of potential international investors into
New Zealand as well. So yeah, I don't buy that argument.
We should be exploring as much domestic gas as we
possibly can and also have the flexibility to import it
when we desperately need it, and that as an option.
(02:38):
So the point turn all the taps on.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
The only point I'm making is exploring, isn't finding. Exploring
is just looking.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Sure, But I think when you've sent the message pretty
chaostically into an international investor market, to say yeah, we
don't really like you and or oil and gas exploration.
There's plenty of other countries to go do that when
you've got choices, and we've got to make the environment
to give people confidence to do that. And that's why
we are changing those settings, setting them out so that
(03:08):
people can come in and actually have confidence that they're
not going to be disrupted and have the whole world
turned upside down on them again.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Okay, and given you guys went to some great lens,
particularly swimming, and to say this is a supply side issue,
increase the supply will solve the problem. Does that then
mean you're comfortable with the Gen Taylor mix. In other words,
they're not gouging, they're not robber barons that if you
get supply it will solve the problem.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Yeah. Look, I mean he's going to look into that now.
There's some work being done now, I think by the
Commerce Commission as well as the work that he wants
to do to make sure we've got the settings right.
But I agree with him, but it is definitely a
supply problem. I mean, when you kill gas and we
live in a country that is in a record dry year,
you've got to have gas for decades. I mean that
is reality. It's a transitionary fuel source for us. Until
(03:53):
we double the amount of renewables, that'd be great. We've
got to do that, and we also have to have gas.
So it's really just opening up all the taps as
much as possible, throw the kitchen sink at it, and
do everything we can to get abundant, affordable energy in
place in New Zealand. I mean, there's no reason why
we shouldn't, and we have plenty of natural resources in
this country.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Are you active enough as a shareholder with the Gen
Taylors or not?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, I think we are, and I think you an
I on their level of profitability, But they also need
confidence to invest because we want them and I know
they will huge amounts of capital on actually doubling that
renewable electricity in GS thermal and wind and solar and
all the stuff that needs to happen. So, as I said,
it is about making sure that we're giving people confidence,
and that's what the announcement was about yesterday, was to
(04:39):
say to many of those international investors who want to
do the offshore engineering solution for LNG importation, who want
to do exploration for gas who actually want to know
that I can go a huge number of the projects
that Chris Bishop's looking at on the fast track approvals
that people who want to do renewable projects, but actually
the consenting times insane. It's absolutely insane. So let's change
(04:59):
the rules, can extend the consents.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
All that good stuff on the fast trike whind you
back down on the ministerial sign of.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Well, I think it's just sort of trying to find
the balance to sort of say that makes it certainly
a lot less legally complex, but it won't slow it
down because there was always going to a panel before
it would come to a minister anyway. And now that
panel actually does the reviewer makes the decisions, and I
think we've sort of got the balance right between the
one stop shop nature of it, where you deal with
all the legislation and you consent not just resource management,
(05:30):
you know, if it's got a wildlife impact or something
else that's dealt with, and it gives the public some
confidence the process is fair and we actually get the
projects built.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Wuld you check it out?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But no, not at all. We always said we'd take
some sensible changes, so that that change. I think is
a sensible change where it actually you know, we everyone
get confidence in the process that it's going to be
fair and straight. It'll be quick, and the panels have
to prioritize the economic consider just for.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
People who were moaning yesterday were the same people moaning previously.
You're never going to make them happy. Gary Taylor of
the Environmental see that he doesn't like it. I mean,
you build a bridge, he hates you. Squash a froggy
hates you. That's who they are. So whether the minister
takes it off or a panel are making any difference.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, I mean the key thing is we've just turned
this place into obstruction economy. So we've got to get
things moving and it will be a game change it
And I appreciate there's lots of people protests to your
places I go to and it's all very interesting, but
we are down. We'll going to get things built and
so we've got the balance right here. And yes we've
made a change around panel versus ministerial decision making, but
at the end of the day, it's just that unblocking
(06:30):
the system getting moving for goodness.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Sake, Okay, nurses, I asked Chris Bishop. He didn't know,
but I watched this job fair over the weekend. Here
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of unemployed nurses turn up.
They're immigrants. They arrive in the country with a visa
because we're desperately short of nurses. They can't get a
job because no one's employing nurses. How is there such
a chronic mismatch between the visas we're handing out and
(06:53):
the jobs we're not giving.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, So on nurses for back up a little bit,
because it has changed from sort of how it was
in the last few years. There's actually been a massive
improvement and nurse recruitment. We've got over I think it's
twenty nine thousand nurses in the system now and make
sure a five thousand nurses from we had last year.
So we've actually been able to recruit a lot of nurses.
We've also had less attrition and we've had a lot
less vacancies. All the vacancies have been dropping. So the
(07:19):
international nurses that came in under the previous governments opened
green list for general nurses that basically the other folk
that you're talking about, there's still got to be a
role for them. We've got to find a role for
them because we're still short and specialist areas and regional
New Zealand in different places. But we also have got
a huge emphasis and a good quantity coming through of
home grid nurses. That has to be our priority in
(07:40):
this case as well. So we still need specialist areas,
general nurses and specialist areas which we hope to be
able to deliver, but we also need some very specialist
nurses in general, which is why they still stay on
our green list in that way. But the problem that
you know when we opened it in green list under
the previous administration, we've brought in a whole lot of
general news as well. Actually, we've done a very good
(08:02):
job of recruitment, particularly in the last nine months or twelve.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Months quickly on the Pacific where you're heading today. The
alban Eazy idea to run the specific policing initiative. Are
we on board with it? Do we like it? And
is it to quill China?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Well, look at very supportive you know, well, I'm very
supportive of it. We'll obviously talk more about it in
the week, but you know, we have a theorius of
policing programs both Australia and New Zealand, often jointly, often
separately with individual Pacific countries for many years. We actually
think it's important that the Pacific country chiefs of police
sort of collectively can build their policing capability. You're seeing
(08:36):
it now, you know, you saw it when I went,
when I went to Fiji. You know, a year's worth
of messam htamine stored in the ocean, floating in the
ocean off the coast of Fiji going into Australia. A
whole year supply for Australian drug trade. We've got a
big problem with transnational crime, drugs, narcotics. And yes, we
want to work with like minded countries in the Pacific
on issues of policing and security.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
All right, go, well, appreciate it very much. Christ But
lux In Prime Minister off to the Pacific island Befohim
before he comes back on Sunday, then flicks back up
to Malaysia, which means I don't think he's going to
be with us next week. For more from the Mic
Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from
six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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