August 10, 2025 • 9 mins
Christopher Luxon says he and Anthony Albanese are on the same page about standardising regulations on both sides of the Tasman.
The New Zealand and Australian Prime Ministers have wrapped up an annual catch-up in Queenstown.
Luxon told Mike Hosking that they've also asked big business CEOs from both countires, to identify where things could be standardised more.
He says Australia's states can have lots of differences in regulations, and they're keen to see where that can be standardised.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Monday morning means the Prime Minister's in the studio. Very
good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Good morning, Mike. I've just come from TV ins sad.
They said they'd take you for celebrity treasure roll all
they did today.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I know, I said, I don't think you're something like No,
I know, I know if I enter, I win, I've
got on, you'd be hopeless at it.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Let's be honest about it.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You come in here, well, no, no, you've got to
hit me with all your questions.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I got to say. I think, I mean, it's nice
you're going to give it a go, but I can't
see you surviving without your pig screen TV renting and
raving it.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, no, that's probably true. It's probably true. To be fair,
did you no insultant tended at all? But did anything
tangible come out of the weekend with all I mean
apart from we're all good friends and we all agree
that there needs to be a sea sprid c.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah. Here, and I've got quite a lot of sort
of regular contact their respective these sort of formal set
piece meetings. But the big thing was saying, hey, listen,
we've had this single economic market, we've had this thing
going for a while. We've got good you know, we've
made good progress on that over thirty years or so,
but we actually should revisit all of that and actually
say why on earth are our standards? And so we've
got our zeal standards, Australian standards bodies working together. You've
(01:03):
seen things like chartered accountancy bodies come together as one organization.
But he's got challenges within the states, within the Australia
that they sort of have differences of standards and regulations
and stuff. And if we can get rid of some
more of that stuff, it's not sexy stuff, but it's
actually does so we will come out of that. Yeah.
So we've got the leaders We met with the Australian's
own Leadership Forum, which is CEO is on both sides
(01:24):
of big businesses on each side of the Tasman and
we've tasked them to think through what more we could
be doing, just the dumb stuff that's just you know,
idiotic that we should get rid of.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, P and you since you were last two year
up there and we've got looking for an embassy, Now,
what was the point of that.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, P and G's quite important in the Pacific it's
three quarters of the Pacific land mass, three quarters of
the Pacific population, and it's sort of I think I
set to eleven to fifteen million people have to be
on their census and it's in the middle of Asia
and Pacific, and so it's actually quite an important country
in the region. And you know, we've it's got growth,
potentially young population and so there's actually new his they
(02:00):
old businesses that have actually been doing quite well up there,
and more infrastructure building and some development that's taking place.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
A lot was made of the fact you were there
when you could have been in the Cooks but you're
not for obvious reasons. Was that deliberate?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I mean our message very clearly to the Coxes.
We've got an issue with Cook Island's government. Actually there's
no political contact at this point where any officials work
through what we can do to mitigate the risks that
we see in those comprehensive stategic partnerships signed with China
we had. Our issue was not with the Cook Islands people,
but it is definitely with the Prime Minister and with
the government there, and we expect them to engage with
(02:31):
us on that conversation. So fiftyeth celebration fifty year anniversary
of P and G independence and you I.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Was there, right, mixed message from you last week you
said the chances are fifteen percent isn't coming down to ten.
There's not a lot we can do about it, fair enough?
Why is McLean now in Washington? Then?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I think our official trade officials and and I thought
McLay was going. Now he's just he's been Indonesia.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And Indonesia signed that I wanted, So he's not going
to Washington.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, he will go, but I just say, yeah, it's
not actually just about the tariffs. We actually need. What
I'm trying to do with our relationship with the US
since I started, was to say it's not just leaders
leader you know Trump and I, it's actually, you know,
it's actually making sure we know there's fifteen to twenty
people that we've got to build out across that system.
And so having ongoing dialogue conversation with them is the
right thing to keep doing, irrespective of you know, the
(03:18):
fact we don't like the fifteen percent tariffs, and we
can keep talking about it, but we also have to
sort of accept I don't think it's changing, as I
said last week. Ok, but him. Having an ongoing dialogue
is something I really want to see, Mike, because I
think in the past we've just been very reliant on
a Prime minister and a president occasionally being able to talk.
And in there, you need to talk. Pick up the
phone to big senators, you need to pick up the
phone to other secretaries in the cabinet.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Okay, Indonesia, what did we get out of that? By
the way, because that got no COVERAGEES and agricultural deal?
Was that dollars? Is it actual dollars?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah? I mean Indonesia's one that we really want to
work quite hard at and I was due to go
there earlier in the year and for a number of
reasons domestic issues, it didn't happen. I met with Praboo,
who I got on very well with. But that's a
massive economy. It's the largest economy in East Asia. And
the Australians have always done a good job since Keating
and HAWKM building out their relationship with Indonesia, and we've
(04:06):
been haven't done that, and so we've got to build
the relationship and get the connectivity and their Winston's got
a good relationship with the team, the leadership there Todd's
building of the trade relationships, and it's a bit like
the Indian experience, like we had to build that relationship
back over a year period before we could then get
in and do the do more conversationship.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Shane Jones met with the gas users. But gas users
on Friday? Is there anything coming in? I mean, what's
the point. We're out of gas. We're running out of
guess what's the point of the meeting? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, I mean, well, first thing is we've put in
place of strategic coal reserve to make sure we don't
end up in the disaster that we've had in the past.
So people may not like the coal, but welcome. New
Zealand's now the only country doing the transition from domestic
guest international coal by virtue of the problems of the
previous administration, and we've put the legislation in place to
end the oil and gas band. There are real challenges
about how do you actually get someone here incentivized to
(04:55):
actually explore for and actually get gas out of New Zealand.
That's been the chilling offfect of that decision of any
oil and gas. If you're a big global multinational, you're
not putting hundreds of millions of dollars of assets in there.
So we've had to design that legislation to make sure
they understand that, you know, we're happy to co invest
with them to actually build back that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Top two hundred million dollars. Yes, but equally Balance announcers
last week they're running out of gas in September. They've
got a contract problem at that point. So is moderately
important given way I don't know a farming nation.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So there are two big gas supplies, you know, Balance
and also Methanathmics, and both of them have actually been
running down their production over the last four years.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You can't have companies closing down.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But this is what the point I've been trying to
make is. It's a lovely bumper sticker. It really is
great to say you want to end the oil and
gas bad, but when you don't think through the second
and third order consequences of that, people end up losing
their jobs and good people. We don't want people coming
out of that sector and losing their jobs. So at
what they can do at the moment is the gas
that they have, they've got to ration and reallocate and
use and all that sort of stuff, But that doesn't
(05:55):
get you far off.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It does not. Jones also mused about specially can nomic zones,
particularly up in Northland. He did that late last week.
It's not a coalition thing, but is there something in that.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I've looked at specially economic zones because I was quite
a fan, you know, years ago. But the reality is
we're actually quite small and we should be able to say,
for goodness say what we do in especially economic zone,
we should be able to do across the whole of
New Zealand. So, you know, getting the RMA sorted. I
personally think taking out regional councils, you know, that stuff
that Bishop will introduce by the end of the year,
(06:27):
The stuff that he's doing in the next week or
two around what's called Amendment Bill two will sort of
help get the thing moving a bit quicker.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Before you went to Queenstown, Hipkins was in Queenstown alluding
to the fact he may well run on capital gains tax.
Would you be happy to run a campaign or.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Bring that on? I mean, like, you know, honestly, if
you seriously think a wealth tax, a capital gains tax
or inheritance tax. The thing that I was quite alarmed
about you had Chloe Swarbrook saying she wants to be
finance Minister, and you didn't have Chriss Hipkins defend Barb Edmonds.
He didn't say he didn't rule it, he didn't rule
it out right, and that you know she wants to
add what forty four billion dollars worth of more debt
eighty eight billion dollars worth of taxes. I'm telling you
(07:05):
it's very interesting. I don't know if you've followed what's
happening in the UK some of the changes they've made
with their taxes. I've had CEOs and wealthy people leave
with capital very very quickly, and that would happen here
in New Zealand hard day, two billion pound our wealth
creators and our generators. I'm telling you people don't want
to hear it, but they would take off well.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
To be fair, the Maori Party would provide the balance.
Then with that three will it would.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Be a wonderful cabinet with Chloe as your Finance minister,
co prime minister's Roori Debbie who else? We got to
the Marama.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
As much as you may laugh, the Curia poll out
this morning has Labor in front of you explain it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, pretty tough time. I mean I don't go into
poles because every time there is a different pole every
week in this country. People don't want me talking about
myself or poles. I think the big trend is pretty obvious.
People expect us to fix the economics as simple as that.
So fix it, and then in twenty twenty six they'll
make the call the.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Boot camps eight out of ten re offended. You guys, still,
so it's a success. How do you defended well?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I mean the point is, these are the toughest kids
in the country. We've got to do something different because
we were in a pretty bad place the boot camps.
There are elements of it worked well. When the kids
are actually in the academies that went great, we'd probably
want to extend that time to give them more more
that we clearly didn't manage the you know, there's more
work to do and manage them back into the community.
And yes, there was reoffending that took place, But I
(08:22):
just say, look, I mean people say I'll give up
on the boot camps with one is well we should.
We've got to try doing something right. I mean, you
just can't carry.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
On leaving is no you can't. But then the cost
was the fact that I mean the amount money you're
pumped into which kid was enormous.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It was I get it, and it was a good
you know. So we've got to take the learnings out
of that pilot and actually sort of you know, get
I think a longer academy phase and better community support
for these tough kids. They've actually got a choice to make.
All we're trying to do is give them an option
to say, you know, we know where your life's going.
It's a bad trajectory. You've got a chance to turn
it around and do something different. This is that intervention
to do it. But I just say, the thing that's
(08:54):
really encouraging is it actually our youth offending is down
thirteen percent, ram raids are down on my sixty percent,
and so that a general approach that we've had around
consequences as got through to young people and that's a
good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
All right. Appreciate Good to see you, Prime Minister. For
more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news
talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
Monday morning means the Prime Minister's in the studio. Very
good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Good morning, Mike. I've just come from TV ins sad.
They said they'd take you for celebrity treasure roll all
they did today.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I know, I said, I don't think you're something like No,
I know, I know if I enter, I win, I've
got on, you'd be hopeless at it.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Let's be honest about it.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
You come in here, well, no, no, you've got to
hit me with all your questions.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I got to say. I think, I mean, it's nice
you're going to give it a go, but I can't
see you surviving without your pig screen TV renting and
raving it.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, no, that's probably true. It's probably true. To be fair,
did you no insultant tended at all? But did anything
tangible come out of the weekend with all I mean
apart from we're all good friends and we all agree
that there needs to be a sea sprid c.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah. Here, and I've got quite a lot of sort
of regular contact their respective these sort of formal set
piece meetings. But the big thing was saying, hey, listen,
we've had this single economic market, we've had this thing
going for a while. We've got good you know, we've
made good progress on that over thirty years or so,
but we actually should revisit all of that and actually
say why on earth are our standards? And so we've
got our zeal standards, Australian standards bodies working together. You've
(01:03):
seen things like chartered accountancy bodies come together as one organization.
But he's got challenges within the states, within the Australia
that they sort of have differences of standards and regulations
and stuff. And if we can get rid of some
more of that stuff, it's not sexy stuff, but it's
actually does so we will come out of that. Yeah.
So we've got the leaders We met with the Australian's
own Leadership Forum, which is CEO is on both sides
(01:24):
of big businesses on each side of the Tasman and
we've tasked them to think through what more we could
be doing, just the dumb stuff that's just you know,
idiotic that we should get rid of.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Okay, P and you since you were last two year
up there and we've got looking for an embassy, Now,
what was the point of that.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, P and G's quite important in the Pacific it's
three quarters of the Pacific land mass, three quarters of
the Pacific population, and it's sort of I think I
set to eleven to fifteen million people have to be
on their census and it's in the middle of Asia
and Pacific, and so it's actually quite an important country
in the region. And you know, we've it's got growth,
potentially young population and so there's actually new his they
(02:00):
old businesses that have actually been doing quite well up there,
and more infrastructure building and some development that's taking place.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
A lot was made of the fact you were there
when you could have been in the Cooks but you're
not for obvious reasons. Was that deliberate?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, I mean our message very clearly to the Coxes.
We've got an issue with Cook Island's government. Actually there's
no political contact at this point where any officials work
through what we can do to mitigate the risks that
we see in those comprehensive stategic partnerships signed with China
we had. Our issue was not with the Cook Islands people,
but it is definitely with the Prime Minister and with
the government there, and we expect them to engage with
(02:31):
us on that conversation. So fiftyeth celebration fifty year anniversary
of P and G independence and you I.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Was there, right, mixed message from you last week you
said the chances are fifteen percent isn't coming down to ten.
There's not a lot we can do about it, fair enough?
Why is McLean now in Washington? Then?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I think our official trade officials and and I thought
McLay was going. Now he's just he's been Indonesia.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
And Indonesia signed that I wanted, So he's not going
to Washington.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Well, he will go, but I just say, yeah, it's
not actually just about the tariffs. We actually need. What
I'm trying to do with our relationship with the US
since I started, was to say it's not just leaders
leader you know Trump and I, it's actually, you know,
it's actually making sure we know there's fifteen to twenty
people that we've got to build out across that system.
And so having ongoing dialogue conversation with them is the
right thing to keep doing, irrespective of you know, the
(03:18):
fact we don't like the fifteen percent tariffs, and we
can keep talking about it, but we also have to
sort of accept I don't think it's changing, as I
said last week. Ok, but him. Having an ongoing dialogue
is something I really want to see, Mike, because I
think in the past we've just been very reliant on
a Prime minister and a president occasionally being able to talk.
And in there, you need to talk. Pick up the
phone to big senators, you need to pick up the
phone to other secretaries in the cabinet.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Okay, Indonesia, what did we get out of that? By
the way, because that got no COVERAGEES and agricultural deal?
Was that dollars? Is it actual dollars?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah? I mean Indonesia's one that we really want to
work quite hard at and I was due to go
there earlier in the year and for a number of
reasons domestic issues, it didn't happen. I met with Praboo,
who I got on very well with. But that's a
massive economy. It's the largest economy in East Asia. And
the Australians have always done a good job since Keating
and HAWKM building out their relationship with Indonesia, and we've
(04:06):
been haven't done that, and so we've got to build
the relationship and get the connectivity and their Winston's got
a good relationship with the team, the leadership there Todd's
building of the trade relationships, and it's a bit like
the Indian experience, like we had to build that relationship
back over a year period before we could then get
in and do the do more conversationship.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Shane Jones met with the gas users. But gas users
on Friday? Is there anything coming in? I mean, what's
the point. We're out of gas. We're running out of
guess what's the point of the meeting? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Well, I mean, well, first thing is we've put in
place of strategic coal reserve to make sure we don't
end up in the disaster that we've had in the past.
So people may not like the coal, but welcome. New
Zealand's now the only country doing the transition from domestic
guest international coal by virtue of the problems of the
previous administration, and we've put the legislation in place to
end the oil and gas band. There are real challenges
about how do you actually get someone here incentivized to
(04:55):
actually explore for and actually get gas out of New Zealand.
That's been the chilling offfect of that decision of any
oil and gas. If you're a big global multinational, you're
not putting hundreds of millions of dollars of assets in there.
So we've had to design that legislation to make sure
they understand that, you know, we're happy to co invest
with them to actually build back that.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Top two hundred million dollars. Yes, but equally Balance announcers
last week they're running out of gas in September. They've
got a contract problem at that point. So is moderately
important given way I don't know a farming nation.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
So there are two big gas supplies, you know, Balance
and also Methanathmics, and both of them have actually been
running down their production over the last four years.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You can't have companies closing down.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But this is what the point I've been trying to
make is. It's a lovely bumper sticker. It really is
great to say you want to end the oil and
gas bad, but when you don't think through the second
and third order consequences of that, people end up losing
their jobs and good people. We don't want people coming
out of that sector and losing their jobs. So at
what they can do at the moment is the gas
that they have, they've got to ration and reallocate and
use and all that sort of stuff, But that doesn't
(05:55):
get you far off.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
It does not. Jones also mused about specially can nomic zones,
particularly up in Northland. He did that late last week.
It's not a coalition thing, but is there something in that.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I've looked at specially economic zones because I was quite
a fan, you know, years ago. But the reality is
we're actually quite small and we should be able to say,
for goodness say what we do in especially economic zone,
we should be able to do across the whole of
New Zealand. So, you know, getting the RMA sorted. I
personally think taking out regional councils, you know, that stuff
that Bishop will introduce by the end of the year,
(06:27):
The stuff that he's doing in the next week or
two around what's called Amendment Bill two will sort of
help get the thing moving a bit quicker.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Before you went to Queenstown, Hipkins was in Queenstown alluding
to the fact he may well run on capital gains tax.
Would you be happy to run a campaign or.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Bring that on? I mean, like, you know, honestly, if
you seriously think a wealth tax, a capital gains tax
or inheritance tax. The thing that I was quite alarmed
about you had Chloe Swarbrook saying she wants to be
finance Minister, and you didn't have Chriss Hipkins defend Barb Edmonds.
He didn't say he didn't rule it, he didn't rule
it out right, and that you know she wants to
add what forty four billion dollars worth of more debt
eighty eight billion dollars worth of taxes. I'm telling you
(07:05):
it's very interesting. I don't know if you've followed what's
happening in the UK some of the changes they've made
with their taxes. I've had CEOs and wealthy people leave
with capital very very quickly, and that would happen here
in New Zealand hard day, two billion pound our wealth
creators and our generators. I'm telling you people don't want
to hear it, but they would take off well.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
To be fair, the Maori Party would provide the balance.
Then with that three will it would.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Be a wonderful cabinet with Chloe as your Finance minister,
co prime minister's Roori Debbie who else? We got to
the Marama.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
As much as you may laugh, the Curia poll out
this morning has Labor in front of you explain it.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Well, pretty tough time. I mean I don't go into
poles because every time there is a different pole every
week in this country. People don't want me talking about
myself or poles. I think the big trend is pretty obvious.
People expect us to fix the economics as simple as that.
So fix it, and then in twenty twenty six they'll
make the call the.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
Boot camps eight out of ten re offended. You guys, still,
so it's a success. How do you defended well?
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I mean the point is, these are the toughest kids
in the country. We've got to do something different because
we were in a pretty bad place the boot camps.
There are elements of it worked well. When the kids
are actually in the academies that went great, we'd probably
want to extend that time to give them more more
that we clearly didn't manage the you know, there's more
work to do and manage them back into the community.
And yes, there was reoffending that took place, But I
(08:22):
just say, look, I mean people say I'll give up
on the boot camps with one is well we should.
We've got to try doing something right. I mean, you
just can't carry.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
On leaving is no you can't. But then the cost
was the fact that I mean the amount money you're
pumped into which kid was enormous.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
It was I get it, and it was a good
you know. So we've got to take the learnings out
of that pilot and actually sort of you know, get
I think a longer academy phase and better community support
for these tough kids. They've actually got a choice to make.
All we're trying to do is give them an option
to say, you know, we know where your life's going.
It's a bad trajectory. You've got a chance to turn
it around and do something different. This is that intervention
to do it. But I just say, the thing that's
(08:54):
really encouraging is it actually our youth offending is down
thirteen percent, ram raids are down on my sixty percent,
and so that a general approach that we've had around
consequences as got through to young people and that's a
good thing.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
All right. Appreciate Good to see you, Prime Minister. For
more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news
talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the
podcast on iHeartRadio.
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