Dame Theresa Gattung: Business Leader on the gender pay gap and the Government's new voluntary tool

There's a new approach to tackle New Zealand's stubborn gender pay gap.  

Acting Minister for Women Louise Upston's announced a new tool businesses can voluntarily use to calculate the divide. 

It replaces plans from the previous Government to make reporting mandatory.  

The national pay gap is 8.6% and has typically sat around 9-10% for the past decade.   

Business leader Dame Theresa Gattung told Mike Hosking that unconscious bias plays a significant role in why it exists.  

She says a good chunk of the pay gap is unexplained, and doesn't just relate to women taking time out of the workforce to have children, for example. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now back home. It's twenty two minutes away from seven
more from America by the way, shortly with Richard Arnold.
But the old gender pay gap issues back this morning
with the news of a new government backed calculator. It
replaces the previous government's reportage rasion. Dame Teresa Gatting is
with us on this one. Very good morning to you. Oh,
good morning, Mike Brigan warn congratulations on your award the
other day too, by the way, that must have been
quite something.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
So much it was. It was really special.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Now the role of if you had to choose between
reportage and a calculator, do either of them solve the problem?
And if you favored one, which is it?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Okay? Well, I was actually at the group of business
leaders in Willington, Use today when Minister Upston announced this,
and it was very well received. So they're lenked, Mike.
That's not a real question as to choosing that because
why is this important? Why was the government announce well
received yesterday? Because all the CEOs in that room were

(00:52):
grappling with measuring their gender pay gaps and what to
do about it when they knew what it was. And
this isn't some sort of peace nonsense. The context of
that meeting was led by Ois and Andrews, CEO Transpound
James Cortico Powerco. It was how do we supercharge the
electricity industry, which is one of those industries when used
in is world leading and where it could absolutely drive

(01:15):
the economy even more. And one of the things they're
grappling with is that there's not enough woman in that industry.
It's very well dominated. So they let a sector review
looking at what to do. The first thing they did,
but one of the first things was measured the gender
pay gap, which in their industry is twenty percent. So
all the seas and are rumor grappling with this, but
they're all doing it a different way. And so this

(01:37):
tool is very working with business. It's not just a
government thing doing it to us. It's working with business.
It's actually going to help all those companies, all those
CEOs are already doing it and make it easier for
others who want to report as well.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Where's the artificiality line? In other words, and trying to
close the gap. You do things for women based on gender,
not on skills or developmental growth, all the things you'd
normally operate.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Under no there's no ceo in the room who would
you know, there's no ceo who would sign up to that.
They're doing it because they believe it's going to be
the best thing for their shareholders, for their staff, for
their companies. There isn't really artificiality about it. It's Antony
Watson spoke yesterday about human behavior in the course of

(02:21):
a year. Men are more likely to push for highest
salaries to be offered other jobs elsewhere and say, well,
I'll only staff I get more money. Women don't tend
to do that. So she was talking about the fact
that they now do midterm reviews to make sure that
women aren't disadvantages the year goes on. Those are real
issues for companies, they're not sort of some artificiality.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
How much of it's unconscious that is not? Yes, so
that's real.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
You're right, that's real. That was measured that Zella measured
that a few years ago working with the Mystery of Woman,
and quite a bit of it was unconscious bias. Some
people don't believe that it exists. But even if you
don't believe that exists, a good chunk of a gender
pay gap is unexplained. Doesn't all relate to women taking
time out of the workforce to have children, for example.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Is eight point six. That's hard to close.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Well, it's been stubborn. It's been like that since twenty eighteen,
so that's pretty stubborn in my book. Most of them,
our whole lives looked different from when they did in
twenty eighteen. But oh no, a gender pay gaps still
around nine percent.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Nice to talk to you, Teresa, Have a good weekend,
Teresa getting a New Zealand businesswoman. Of course.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
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