Gary Judd: King's Counsel wants Parliament to end the compulsory Tikanga Māori courses for law students

A senior legal professional wants Parliament to intervene in what he considers the politicisation of the judiciary. 

It comes amid controversy over compulsory Tikanga Māori courses for law students. 

Gary Judd KC has complained to the Government Regulation Review Select Committee. 

He told Mike Hosking Tikanga shouldn't be infused in legal process, and he wants Parliament to take a stand. 

He says if the committee agrees, it would send a signal that the current rules are unacceptable. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The debate of a compulsory teaching a Marii lessons for
law students. So we've talked about this on the program
before reaches Parliament today King's Council Gary Judd's taking his
fight to the Government Regulations Review Select Committee. Now he
argues the Council of Legal Education is stepping outside it's
remit by forcing non proper law subject on students and
Gary's back with us. Gary, morning to you since we

(00:20):
last talked, what sort of reaction have you got?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, I think the people are becoming more and more
understanding of the fact that we have an activist of
politically activist judiciary at the moment. This of course is
not all judges, but some of them seem to have
gained the view that instead of being there as impartial

(00:49):
deciders of the particular case, they are there to make
an unmake law, which of course is the province of Parliament.
Now this committee, the Regulation Review Committee, has the ability
to send a very strong signal that this is not
acceptable by disallowing regulations which have been passed by the

(01:14):
Council of Legal Education to make tea Kunger compulsory for
law students and to infuse Tea Kunger into all aspects
of our legal system. Now, if the Committee decides that
it should move a resolution in the House to disallow

(01:35):
these regulations, it will be sending a powerful signal to
those who should hear it that this is not acceptable. Well, if,
on the other hand, they decide not to do anything,
they will essentially be seen as giving the green light
to what is ready his political activisity.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Here's my problem, Gary, I talked to the Prime Minister
about something very similar. The Solicitor General's instructions for prosecution
in the Court says of January this year he ran
for the hills. He says, it's all independent, it's not
about me. There's nothing I can do. I don't like
the sound of it. Why wouldn't the Committee say the
same thing today? All the courts don't want to touch them?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, well think they do. But I think this actually
is a watershed moment for Parliament. If they don't do anything,
This is the point that I'm making. If they don't
do anything, they will be seen to be giving the
green light to the sort of activism and it is
very very damaging to New Zealand socially, but not just

(02:37):
socially but also economically. Because tea Hunger is a sort
of a flexible type of it's interpreted.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
You can make it, you can interpret it any way
you like.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
It's not really law at all. Now, you know, for
accustom to the over hundreds of years it's been a
law was built up that for a custom to be
accepted as law, it had to be certain and consistent,
it had to be reasonable, and it had to be
not repugnant to justice and morality. Now, what the Supreme

(03:13):
Court has said is that because Tea Kunger cannot satisfy
those tests, therefore the tests have to change. I mean,
it really is an unbelievable situation because if the judges
were doing their job properly, they would have said, those
things are required before a customer can be recognized as law.

(03:35):
Ta Kunger cannot satisfy those requirements. Therefore we reject the
notion of Tea Kung of being part of the law.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
You were one hundred percent correct, Gary, But whether or
not you'll get that across the line today is going
to be a great fascination to me. So I appreciate
your time very much, Gary. Jud caase for more from
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