September 8, 2025 • 10 mins
What does it take to achieve excellence?
James Laughlin is a 7 time world champion drummer, a high-performance leadership trainer, and the mental skills coach for Canterbury Rugby.
He's written a book, ‘Habits for High Performers’, distilling his approach to life into a book that’s shot to #1 on the Book Scan List, and comes highly recommended by the likes of Sir John Key and Sam Whitelock.
The book contains 27 simple principals for those aiming for success.
“High performance is not a birthright, it’s a habit,” he told Mike Hosking.
“What separates high performers from everyone else is not hustle, it’s not luck, it’s simply habits.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's meet James Lachlan. Ed might change your life. James
a seven time world champion drummer. I'll get to the
drumming partner the moment. A coach to top CEOs and
high performance leadership trainer and speaker. He also the mental
skills coach for the Canterbury Rugby people. His book is
called Habits for High Performers. It's number one on the
book Scandalist comes recommended by somebody called Sir John Key
and Sam Whitelocke. You know James Lachlan is well, it's James.
(00:22):
Very good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Top of the morning, mate, great to speak to you.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
How are you? I'm very well. Indeed you'd be very
happy with the Canterbury performance at the weekend. And how
long do you think they'll hold the Ranfilly Shield?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Long? Mat continue? That's all I have to say.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Do you have a theory in Canterbury Rugby in general
that they keep on keeping on and performing at the
highest level year in year out, no matter who happens
to be there at the time. How does that work?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Look? I think the leadership goes deep there and it's
been probably decades in the making. It said it's no
one secret sauce. But there's something at Rugby Park there
when you walk in special place. And yes, certainly I
think the leadership runs very deep.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, and so where do they or how do you
fit into that equation?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Then? Yeah? So I offer mental skills for the players
and for the management, and I work with them as
a team that also work with them the individually number
of the all blacks as well, so working on the
top two inches, performing under pressure.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The thing I like about you immediately is you don't
believe in work life balance. What do you believe in?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, there's no such thing as work life plants. If
people are chasing it, it's madness. I believe in counterbalance,
that idea that you know you've got to work your
butt off, work towards goals, the radio, sixty seventy hour week,
and then realize, okay, there's other things that are a
high priority. What are they and turn your focus to those.
So you're constantly in counterbalance.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So how do you implement counterbalance in your life? I mean,
what are you saying? Because normally I'm assuming and working
really hard. It's the work that you're working hard at
in general.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Look, I hear a lot make that. People say I'm busy,
I'm really busy, And you know, I hear it from politicians,
I hear it from leaders, I hear it from everyday people.
But I would say most people don't have a busy problem.
They have a priority problem. And getting clear on your priorities,
you know what is it? Family? Is it, fitness, finances, work?
Get clear on what order they are in and that
will help you to counterbalance.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, so are these, by the way, in just in
general terms, does this say this a gift or is
this learned and can be learned by anybody.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
High performance is not a birthright, it's a habit. So
what separates high performers from everyone else is not hustle,
it's not luck, it's simply habits.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
What is a high performer? I mean, how do you
know you are one or that person over there is one?
I mean apart from the audice?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, absolutely so. First thing, assistently exceeding norms, So not
just doing it once but doing it multiple times. Well,
so whether it's you know, for me it was drumming
as a kid. Winning the World championships once that was good,
but let's win it multiple times, consistently exceed the norms
in your industry or in your life, whilst maintaining healthy
relationships and well being. That last bit is crucial.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay. Is that still the same as it was in
the seventies, the eighties, the nineties, because our view of
life and work has changed dramatically in that period of time,
hasn't it hugely?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And I would say back in the eighties and nineties,
et cetera, it was about when it all costs. High
performance is simply winning, but you and I both know
there's a significant cost to that. I believe people can
achieve on field whilst looking after themselves and their lives
off field.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, that drumming I referenced, this was pipe band drumming,
wasn't It wasn't like you know, you're backing up Phil
Collins or sitting next to Phil Collins on the drums.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Now Phil Collins comes to us pipe blind drummers for
technique help. But no, I certainly wasn't. I wasn't a
rock drummer. I was wearing a kilt net.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So who were you world champion with? I mean, where
did that all start?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes? So as a world solo juvenile champion as a
young thirteen year old and fourteen year old again, and
then had it to Vancouver, Canada and one it there
five times with the Salmon Fraser University band, and then
came to New Zealand to help a band Don't in
christ Church become the very first and still the only
world champions from New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So you can teach greatness at that level. And in
other words to car, I've got a drum kit in
my barn and the country and it's now mine based
on the fact that I bought it for my child
who used it twice. But I can't drum. I cannot
do it. Could you teach me one?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's a very teachable skill, I promise you.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Make so the foot you know the boom, so all
of that, that coordination thing can be done.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
We've all got it. If you have a heartbeat and
you're able to walk, you can be a drummer.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, some people question the hard big thing that could
be my problem the seventh the seven principles. So you
get radically clear. You sort of answered that before. So
that's prioritization, right yep. So that's knowing what you want,
how to do it and balancing it up.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
That's most people find out the.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, supercharge your belief systems? What's that mean?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So, Mike, you are full of BS belief systems. I'm
going to ask you a question. What's the first thing? First?
Two or three things that come to mind when you
think of an irishman?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Humor, drink and is that not right? I think of greenness,
I think of guinness and.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Human Yeah, we go good on a great rugby team,
of course. So what we're looking at there is your BS,
your belief systems, and it doesn't make them right, doesn't
make them wrong. But those things that the subconscious mind.
High performers know that they believe certain things around failure,
they believe certain things around money, success, the government and
these things. We've got to rewire them to help us
achieve our goals.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Is this the sign with main en women?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, I'd say there's some global beliefs. Let's take money.
Lots of us would believe money doesn't grow on trees. Certainly.
I grew up in a small working class pan and
I believe it didn't grow on trees. So I would
say there are global beliefs that transcend genders, for.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Sure, James, I'm getting the heat here. I disagree with
this guy. You need internal rhythm to be a really
good drummer, which is innate and can't be taught. You'll
never make it. That's what Sylvia says.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You say, what hah, Sylvia is wrong.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
As simple as that. Sorry, Sylvia, you're wrong. Right Number three?
Lead your life on purpose? What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know what? Do work that matters? You know, not
everyone's going to be a Mandela or a mother Teresa,
but do work actually matters? And we spend a lot
of time working and following our passion. So do stuff
that actually brings you due and makes a difference to others.
And when I look at high performers over the long term,
they have purpose interweaved into what they do.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Would you recommend somebody leave their work if they were
just doing it for the sake of doing it or
doing it for the money? And you asked them the question,
do you thoroughly enjoy this? And they said no, if
you're miserable, don't hang around.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And you've got to put a foot on the table.
So don't be just quitting today after hearing this. But
you know what, your life is short. But you spend
a lot of that. I'm at work, so get clear
on what brings you joy. And I went from teaching
drums loving drums to a point where I was burnt
out and I wasn't doing high performance very well because
wellbeing and relationships weren't in the position they should be.
(07:12):
So I made some changes. It took some time, Mike,
but it made a big difference.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Multiply your motivation.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, so success is an inside job. And I hear
people say, look, don't talk to me till I've had
my coffee, And I'm saying, that sucks. Why don't you
just drink the coffee because you love it? Or James,
I need to go for a smoke. I needn't need
to go and cammed down after that result, Well, why
don't you just enjoy the cigarette because you love the cigarette?
Hopefully you can quit. But you know, why do we
need to rely on external things? Some people are really
motivated extrinsically, Mike. It's the money, status, power, fame. Those
(07:42):
people that have the Air New Zealand luggage tag on
their laptop bag instead of on their luggage bag. That
always tells me there's a little bit of extrinsic motivation
for them.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Do the work. Is that literal advice.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Absolutely, So discipline your inner domain if you want to
dominate the outer domain. So get to work. You know
these people that go to the gym and at four
am they take a photo of themselves at the gym
and tell the world. I truly believe high performers do
the work in the dark so they can shine in
the light.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
See you're a high performer. Who taught you?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's interesting. So I look back and I would say
my head master, mister Pollock, was the biggest influence. He's
there what I would call a possibilitarian. I was a
little upstart at school and he said, James a weeked
attention or a set of drumsticks, And I thought I
was going to be Ringo star mic. Instead I was
wearing a skirt and playing with a bag by itself.
Not quite the same, but he was the biggest influence.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So those are the people in your life that you need.
You may not have the principle, but there's somebody in
there who sees something in you, or gives you an opportunity,
or does something that you may not realize at the time.
Is a bit more profound than what you think it is.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And they're probably be closer to than you imagine.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay, focus on your priorities. What's that mean?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You know what, high performers always know what their priorities are.
They make time for health because they know if they don't,
they'll have to make time for sickness. So I always
say high performers should take their meds. MADS should be
number one priority. That's meditation, exercise, diet, and sleep. Common sense,
but not common practice.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
No, that is true because if you talk about your
traditional high performer, that's the person who's working hard, grinding,
and they don't have time for any of that other stuff,
which is what you were talking about before.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
You Absolutely make time for it.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Take no shortcuts, you know what.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I believe that the person who takes the shortcut pays
the price. So if you want great results, it's play
the long game. Nothing great happens overnight. Overex sensations are
made over decades.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Jeeh. It's good advice. If only well, this is the difference.
If only we could apply all of these things, we'd
all be high achievers. And I guess that's what separates
out the high achievers. From the non high achievers. If
you believe you're a high achievement, no matter what you're
doing and where you are, you believe you're a higher
cheaper are.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You look, all starts with achieving, starts with believing. So
I believed at twelve I could win the World Championships
at thirteen. My dad, if he wasn't Northern Irish, he
to be Kiwi Shutability is everything, he said, Son, don't
set yourself up for failure. You're probably not going to
win this. But I said, Dad, if I go in
thinking like that, I've lost already. So I do believe
(10:23):
that you've got to have it in your mind before
you have it in reality.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Fantastic, great to talk to you, James. Good advice apart
from anything else. And I think it was free. Was free.
We didn't pay him for that, don't we, yearse, I
think it was free. His book is Habits for High
Performance James Laughlin.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Let's meet James Lachlan. Ed might change your life. James
a seven time world champion drummer. I'll get to the
drumming partner the moment. A coach to top CEOs and
high performance leadership trainer and speaker. He also the mental
skills coach for the Canterbury Rugby people. His book is
called Habits for High Performers. It's number one on the
book Scandalist comes recommended by somebody called Sir John Key
and Sam Whitelocke. You know James Lachlan is well, it's James.
(00:22):
Very good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Top of the morning, mate, great to speak to you.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
How are you? I'm very well. Indeed you'd be very
happy with the Canterbury performance at the weekend. And how
long do you think they'll hold the Ranfilly Shield?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Long? Mat continue? That's all I have to say.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Do you have a theory in Canterbury Rugby in general
that they keep on keeping on and performing at the
highest level year in year out, no matter who happens
to be there at the time. How does that work?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Look? I think the leadership goes deep there and it's
been probably decades in the making. It said it's no
one secret sauce. But there's something at Rugby Park there
when you walk in special place. And yes, certainly I
think the leadership runs very deep.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Okay, and so where do they or how do you
fit into that equation?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Then? Yeah? So I offer mental skills for the players
and for the management, and I work with them as
a team that also work with them the individually number
of the all blacks as well, so working on the
top two inches, performing under pressure.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The thing I like about you immediately is you don't
believe in work life balance. What do you believe in?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, there's no such thing as work life plants. If
people are chasing it, it's madness. I believe in counterbalance,
that idea that you know you've got to work your
butt off, work towards goals, the radio, sixty seventy hour week,
and then realize, okay, there's other things that are a
high priority. What are they and turn your focus to those.
So you're constantly in counterbalance.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
So how do you implement counterbalance in your life? I mean,
what are you saying? Because normally I'm assuming and working
really hard. It's the work that you're working hard at
in general.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Look, I hear a lot make that. People say I'm busy,
I'm really busy, And you know, I hear it from politicians,
I hear it from leaders, I hear it from everyday people.
But I would say most people don't have a busy problem.
They have a priority problem. And getting clear on your priorities,
you know what is it? Family? Is it, fitness, finances, work?
Get clear on what order they are in and that
will help you to counterbalance.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, so are these, by the way, in just in
general terms, does this say this a gift or is
this learned and can be learned by anybody.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
High performance is not a birthright, it's a habit. So
what separates high performers from everyone else is not hustle,
it's not luck, it's simply habits.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
What is a high performer? I mean, how do you
know you are one or that person over there is one?
I mean apart from the audice?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, absolutely so. First thing, assistently exceeding norms, So not
just doing it once but doing it multiple times. Well,
so whether it's you know, for me it was drumming
as a kid. Winning the World championships once that was good,
but let's win it multiple times, consistently exceed the norms
in your industry or in your life, whilst maintaining healthy
relationships and well being. That last bit is crucial.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay. Is that still the same as it was in
the seventies, the eighties, the nineties, because our view of
life and work has changed dramatically in that period of time,
hasn't it hugely?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And I would say back in the eighties and nineties,
et cetera, it was about when it all costs. High
performance is simply winning, but you and I both know
there's a significant cost to that. I believe people can
achieve on field whilst looking after themselves and their lives
off field.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Okay, that drumming I referenced, this was pipe band drumming,
wasn't It wasn't like you know, you're backing up Phil
Collins or sitting next to Phil Collins on the drums.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Now Phil Collins comes to us pipe blind drummers for
technique help. But no, I certainly wasn't. I wasn't a
rock drummer. I was wearing a kilt net.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So who were you world champion with? I mean, where
did that all start?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yes? So as a world solo juvenile champion as a
young thirteen year old and fourteen year old again, and
then had it to Vancouver, Canada and one it there
five times with the Salmon Fraser University band, and then
came to New Zealand to help a band Don't in
christ Church become the very first and still the only
world champions from New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
So you can teach greatness at that level. And in
other words to car, I've got a drum kit in
my barn and the country and it's now mine based
on the fact that I bought it for my child
who used it twice. But I can't drum. I cannot
do it. Could you teach me one?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's a very teachable skill, I promise you.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Make so the foot you know the boom, so all
of that, that coordination thing can be done.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
We've all got it. If you have a heartbeat and
you're able to walk, you can be a drummer.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, some people question the hard big thing that could
be my problem the seventh the seven principles. So you
get radically clear. You sort of answered that before. So
that's prioritization, right yep. So that's knowing what you want,
how to do it and balancing it up.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
That's most people find out the.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, supercharge your belief systems? What's that mean?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
So, Mike, you are full of BS belief systems. I'm
going to ask you a question. What's the first thing? First?
Two or three things that come to mind when you
think of an irishman?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Humor, drink and is that not right? I think of greenness,
I think of guinness and.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Human Yeah, we go good on a great rugby team,
of course. So what we're looking at there is your BS,
your belief systems, and it doesn't make them right, doesn't
make them wrong. But those things that the subconscious mind.
High performers know that they believe certain things around failure,
they believe certain things around money, success, the government and
these things. We've got to rewire them to help us
achieve our goals.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Is this the sign with main en women?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, I'd say there's some global beliefs. Let's take money.
Lots of us would believe money doesn't grow on trees. Certainly.
I grew up in a small working class pan and
I believe it didn't grow on trees. So I would
say there are global beliefs that transcend genders, for.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Sure, James, I'm getting the heat here. I disagree with
this guy. You need internal rhythm to be a really
good drummer, which is innate and can't be taught. You'll
never make it. That's what Sylvia says.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
You say, what hah, Sylvia is wrong.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
As simple as that. Sorry, Sylvia, you're wrong. Right Number three?
Lead your life on purpose? What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (06:20):
You know what? Do work that matters? You know, not
everyone's going to be a Mandela or a mother Teresa,
but do work actually matters? And we spend a lot
of time working and following our passion. So do stuff
that actually brings you due and makes a difference to others.
And when I look at high performers over the long term,
they have purpose interweaved into what they do.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Would you recommend somebody leave their work if they were
just doing it for the sake of doing it or
doing it for the money? And you asked them the question,
do you thoroughly enjoy this? And they said no, if
you're miserable, don't hang around.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
And you've got to put a foot on the table.
So don't be just quitting today after hearing this. But
you know what, your life is short. But you spend
a lot of that. I'm at work, so get clear
on what brings you joy. And I went from teaching
drums loving drums to a point where I was burnt
out and I wasn't doing high performance very well because
wellbeing and relationships weren't in the position they should be.
(07:12):
So I made some changes. It took some time, Mike,
but it made a big difference.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Multiply your motivation.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, so success is an inside job. And I hear
people say, look, don't talk to me till I've had
my coffee, And I'm saying, that sucks. Why don't you
just drink the coffee because you love it? Or James,
I need to go for a smoke. I needn't need
to go and cammed down after that result, Well, why
don't you just enjoy the cigarette because you love the cigarette?
Hopefully you can quit. But you know, why do we
need to rely on external things? Some people are really
motivated extrinsically, Mike. It's the money, status, power, fame. Those
(07:42):
people that have the Air New Zealand luggage tag on
their laptop bag instead of on their luggage bag. That
always tells me there's a little bit of extrinsic motivation
for them.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Do the work. Is that literal advice.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Absolutely, So discipline your inner domain if you want to
dominate the outer domain. So get to work. You know
these people that go to the gym and at four
am they take a photo of themselves at the gym
and tell the world. I truly believe high performers do
the work in the dark so they can shine in
the light.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
See you're a high performer. Who taught you?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
It's interesting. So I look back and I would say
my head master, mister Pollock, was the biggest influence. He's
there what I would call a possibilitarian. I was a
little upstart at school and he said, James a weeked
attention or a set of drumsticks, And I thought I
was going to be Ringo star mic. Instead I was
wearing a skirt and playing with a bag by itself.
Not quite the same, but he was the biggest influence.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So those are the people in your life that you need.
You may not have the principle, but there's somebody in
there who sees something in you, or gives you an opportunity,
or does something that you may not realize at the time.
Is a bit more profound than what you think it is.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
And they're probably be closer to than you imagine.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Okay, focus on your priorities. What's that mean?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
You know what, high performers always know what their priorities are.
They make time for health because they know if they don't,
they'll have to make time for sickness. So I always
say high performers should take their meds. MADS should be
number one priority. That's meditation, exercise, diet, and sleep. Common sense,
but not common practice.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
No, that is true because if you talk about your
traditional high performer, that's the person who's working hard, grinding,
and they don't have time for any of that other stuff,
which is what you were talking about before.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
You Absolutely make time for it.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Take no shortcuts, you know what.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
I believe that the person who takes the shortcut pays
the price. So if you want great results, it's play
the long game. Nothing great happens overnight. Overex sensations are
made over decades.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Jeeh. It's good advice. If only well, this is the difference.
If only we could apply all of these things, we'd
all be high achievers. And I guess that's what separates
out the high achievers. From the non high achievers. If
you believe you're a high achievement, no matter what you're
doing and where you are, you believe you're a higher
cheaper are.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
You look, all starts with achieving, starts with believing. So
I believed at twelve I could win the World Championships
at thirteen. My dad, if he wasn't Northern Irish, he
to be Kiwi Shutability is everything, he said, Son, don't
set yourself up for failure. You're probably not going to
win this. But I said, Dad, if I go in
thinking like that, I've lost already. So I do believe
(10:23):
that you've got to have it in your mind before
you have it in reality.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Fantastic, great to talk to you, James. Good advice apart
from anything else. And I think it was free. Was free.
We didn't pay him for that, don't we, yearse, I
think it was free. His book is Habits for High
Performance James Laughlin.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com