Jo McKenna: Italy correspondent on the passing of a new femicide law

The intentional killing of women and girls is now its own crime in Italy.  

Lawmakers unanimously backed a bill making femicide a specific crime punishable by life imprisonment.  

Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni called the measure a tool to "defend the freedom and dignity of every woman". 

Italy Correspondent Jo McKenna told Mike Hosking it looks very much like a symbolic gesture. 

She says she’s not sure how you would prove the murder of someone is related to their gender, as opposed to some other factor.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joe McKenna, How are you great, Mike, how are you well?
Indeed you got the Christmas lights up?

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Yeah, they're starting to pop up. Get a hunting it
into the mood.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
I love it now. This was a lot of interests
are saying before a lot of interest in Australia over this.
So I can't remembers that the mother or the father
is Australian, one's British, one's Australia.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Yes, we have an Australian mother, Catherine Birmingham from Melbourne.
And the husband that we're talking about is Nathan Trevillion.
He's from Bristol. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
So they're out in the woods doing their off grid thing.
But really, you don't want to eat a lot of
these weird mushrooms because you leaned up in the hospital.
Next thing, the Italian authorities are knocking on your door.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, something like that. They bought this property, just a
little farmhouse in Abruzzo, east of Rome in twenty twenty one.
They came to the attention of the authorities a year
ago in September when they were foraging for mushrooms. They
all fell ill and went to hospital and the Carabinieri
police have been monitoring them social services and last week

(00:59):
a local court children's court removed the children from the
parents and they are being held in a shelter in
a different part of Abruzzo until the appeal goes through
the courts, probably in the next couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
How angsty do people get about these sort of things,
rights of the parents', rights of the state, all that
sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, it's incredible, Mike, what this has been like in Italy.
The whole country seems to be obsessed with this case
right now. One hundred and fifty thousand people have signed
a petition online support for the family, including the far
right leader Matteo Salvini from the League. The Deputy Prime Minister,
he compared the case to a kidnapping. The Prime Minister

(01:41):
Georgia Maloney expressed alarm about the case. Today the Justice
Minister Carlo Nordio threatened disciplinary measures against the judges if
they're found to have acted incorrectly. And this is part
of a bigger fight between the government and the judiciary.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Obviously, of course, speaking of governents who've been voting down
south now, the opposition have done well. The opposition have
been expected to do well in the southern part or not.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's the thing. I'm taking it fairly cautiously that
a lot of people are saying this is bad news
for Maloney. But in these regions Campagna and Pulia, the
center left parties were expected to win. They did win.
But when you look at the map overall, it's a
three all draw now, and I think it is pause

(02:25):
for thought for the Prime ministry if she does want
to look at a reelection, just what that means for
her nationally? Ok?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
When she du for an election nationally, So.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
She's three years in, we've got another two years. It's
a five year term.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Got ages to things ago brilliantly or disastrously? Who would
know this? Now? I do need your expertise here because
I'm reading about this femicide thing. Is this win and
I mean the vote was unanimous, But is this symbolic?
Is this window dressing or do this something tangible happen?

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah? Good question. How do you prove that the murder
of someone is related to their sexual identity, their gender?
I'm not sure about that. It looks very much like
a symbolic gesture. It's unusual to see all the MPs
uniting and voting unanimously was approved on the day that

(03:19):
internationally is dedicated to stop violence against women. So they're
doing all the right things, but what does that really
mean on the ground. I think the experts are saying,
we need more education, we need to change the way
young boys are thinking.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Of course, So who would rule I mean, so someone
gets murdered, who would rule this has been a femosite
as opposed to.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, well, it would be up to the courts, obviously,
to say that this has been a femicide, this murder.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Would you be charged with gmicide do you know? Or
just murder?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Yeah? Unclear, but it says it's a law on femoside.
So interesting, it's not quite clear.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, it seems odd, all right, Joe, nice to catch
up with you. Thanks my Joe McKenna. In Italy, of course,
the reason because Maloney drove it, so it came from
the top, and the point being from now on Italy
will record every murder of a woman that is motivated
by her gender as femicide. But you've got to cross
the line somewhere judicially or legally on the motivation, which

(04:19):
makes it I suggest, probably more symboly For more from
The Mike Asking Breakfast.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
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