Donald Trump is set to host Israel's Prime Minister at the White House as the US pushes for a ceasefire in Gaza.
The BBC reports Israel and Hamas resumed indirect talks in Qatar but ended after three hours without a breakthrough.
Former US National Security Adviser John Bolton told Heather Du Plessis-Allan there's no compromising between the two sides.
He says Hamas' objectives are to get Israel out of Gaza, while Israel's is to destroy Hamas as a military and political force.
Discussions to strike a permanent deal with Iran in the wake of recent airstrikes on its nuclear facilities are expected to also be on the table.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now Middle East leaders will be watching today because Donald
Trump is meeting Benjamin Netanyahu in the White House ten
thirty out time. On the cards the ceasefire deal with Gaza,
of course, the ceasefire deal with Iran. Former National security
advisor to Trump, John Bolton joins me.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Now, morning, John, Good afternoon. I'm glad to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Do you hold any hopes for those negotiations between Israel
and Hamas that are underway.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
At the moment, Well, I don't think so, although the
meeting between net Yahoo and Trump, which will be later
in the afternoon here on Monday, Washington time, could tell
us something. But Hamas's objectives are to get Israel out
of guys entirely. Israel's objectives are to destroy Hamas as
a military and political force. There's no compromise there.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Do you think Israel's objectives now also include clearing the
place out?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, I think it's moving in that direction, and I
think it really requires everybody who's concerned to think about
what we're going to do with the guys in population.
I think rebuilding a high rise refugee camp wouldn't solve anything.
It would just lay the basis for a new October
the seventh, and perhaps ten percent of the Gazan population
(01:08):
has already exited the Gaza strip. That means there's a
long way to go. But I think I think we
have to be thinking about from a humanitarian point of view,
what's the best place for the Gazans to go?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
What do you think the best place is not Gaza?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I think there's never going to be a two
state solution after October seven. I think people need to
abandon that dream and to think what is the best
thing for the people of Gaza and their children. And
you know, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees has never
forcibly repatriated anybody anywhere, But there are also no permanent
(01:45):
High Commissioner for Refugees refugee camps, and I think if
they were put in charge of the situation rather than UNRA,
which is the UN agencies that's been dealing with the
Palestinians since nineteen forty eight, that there might be a
better chances for a humane solution for the gas and people.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Where would you take them if you took them elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I think it's going to take a period of
time to decide where they go. I think Egypt is
very concerned that a lot of the people in Gaza
are still Hamas. They regard the Egyptians regard Hamas correctly
as a subsidiary of the Muslim brotherhood, which they had
to deal with in Egypt. That's part of the problem.
This Hamas domination in Gaza has been a curse to
(02:28):
the gods and people, and we're going to have to
think about ways to deal with that before they can
be humanely resettled.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Could they go to the Waist Bank, Well.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I think that's a possibility, but you'd have to work
that out between Jordan and Israel. I think in addition
to Egypt, which after all, has a population of ninety million,
there are a number of other countries where they could
go if their safety can be guaranteed, and if they're
not going to carry the Hamas ideology with them.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
If a two state solution is no longer viable, what's
the next best solution?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, I think you have to treat the problem of
Gaza separately from the problem of the West Bank, and
there are changes happening on the West Bank now. The
Wall Street Journal reported this morning in the US that
a number of shakes from the Hebron region want to
be done with the Palestinian authority. They want to deal
with they and their tribes want to deal with Israel independently.
(03:27):
There's a lot of changing going on in the Middle
East now, and I think people need to catch up
with it. I think if you look at the West
Bank as a separate problem, there's a better chance for
Israel and Jordan to work out some kind of relationship
that would give everybody something that's that's that would satisfy them.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Why do you think the Israel Iran ceasefire was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Because I don't think President Trump's statement about total obliteration
to the contrary, not with state the job was done.
I think the combined Israeli US air strikes did an
awful lot of damage to the program, but it's a
complex operation and there's still a lot more to be
done to save really the world from this threat of
(04:15):
nuclear proliferation. Iran is not just an Israeli problem. It's
an American problem. It's a problem for everybody that doesn't
want to see the spread of nuclear weapons, because that's
what the iotolas are aiming at.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Do you basically think that they were so significantly damaged
that they had an Iran no option, but a ceasefire.
So actually, when you have them at that point, you
should you should just keep going.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think absolutely we should keep going. The more damage
you inflict, the harder it is for them to get
the nuclear program up and running again, and the safer
the world is from this threat of nuclear proliferation.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Do you think that Pete higgsifth knows what.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
He's doing, not particularly. I mean, I think he is
still in jeopardy of lou using his job as Secretary
of Defense. He may have moved to second place in
the category of next departure from the administration, and maybe
Telsey Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, has replaced him,
(05:14):
but I think heg Seth's job is still in jeopardy.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And so what Trump's just keeping an eye on him.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, I think he's waiting for an opportune moment. Trump
hates to admit that he's made a bad decision, although
he's made a lot of them. So maybe it will
be in August when Congress goes in recess and it's
very hot and humid in Washington and the media take
their vacations. Maybe both Gabbard and heg Seth Go in August.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Interesting. Okay, look the meeting today which you mentioned at
the stop BB and Trump. What do you think we
get out of this?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, I think there are going to be two big subjects.
One is Iran and the nuclear weapons program and whether
the Iyatolas should be allowed to remain in power. The
other is Gaza. I think Trump really really wants Nobel
Peace Prize and he's decided, having failed to bring peace
between Ukraine and Russia, maybe this is the place to
get it. So I think there could be some pretty
(06:10):
tough discussions at this dinner.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
John, listen, thank you very much for your time to
appreciate its John Bolton, former National Security Advisor. For more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
Now Middle East leaders will be watching today because Donald
Trump is meeting Benjamin Netanyahu in the White House ten
thirty out time. On the cards the ceasefire deal with Gaza,
of course, the ceasefire deal with Iran. Former National security
advisor to Trump, John Bolton joins me.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Now, morning, John, Good afternoon. I'm glad to be with you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Do you hold any hopes for those negotiations between Israel
and Hamas that are underway.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
At the moment, Well, I don't think so, although the
meeting between net Yahoo and Trump, which will be later
in the afternoon here on Monday, Washington time, could tell
us something. But Hamas's objectives are to get Israel out
of guys entirely. Israel's objectives are to destroy Hamas as
a military and political force. There's no compromise there.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Do you think Israel's objectives now also include clearing the
place out?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, I think it's moving in that direction, and I
think it really requires everybody who's concerned to think about
what we're going to do with the guys in population.
I think rebuilding a high rise refugee camp wouldn't solve anything.
It would just lay the basis for a new October
the seventh, and perhaps ten percent of the Gazan population
(01:08):
has already exited the Gaza strip. That means there's a
long way to go. But I think I think we
have to be thinking about from a humanitarian point of view,
what's the best place for the Gazans to go?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
What do you think the best place is not Gaza?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, I think there's never going to be a two
state solution after October seven. I think people need to
abandon that dream and to think what is the best
thing for the people of Gaza and their children. And
you know, the UN High Commissioner for Refugees has never
forcibly repatriated anybody anywhere, But there are also no permanent
(01:45):
High Commissioner for Refugees refugee camps, and I think if
they were put in charge of the situation rather than UNRA,
which is the UN agencies that's been dealing with the
Palestinians since nineteen forty eight, that there might be a
better chances for a humane solution for the gas and people.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Where would you take them if you took them elsewhere?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I think it's going to take a period of
time to decide where they go. I think Egypt is
very concerned that a lot of the people in Gaza
are still Hamas. They regard the Egyptians regard Hamas correctly
as a subsidiary of the Muslim brotherhood, which they had
to deal with in Egypt. That's part of the problem.
This Hamas domination in Gaza has been a curse to
(02:28):
the gods and people, and we're going to have to
think about ways to deal with that before they can
be humanely resettled.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Could they go to the Waist Bank, Well.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I think that's a possibility, but you'd have to work
that out between Jordan and Israel. I think in addition
to Egypt, which after all, has a population of ninety million,
there are a number of other countries where they could
go if their safety can be guaranteed, and if they're
not going to carry the Hamas ideology with them.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
If a two state solution is no longer viable, what's
the next best solution?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, I think you have to treat the problem of
Gaza separately from the problem of the West Bank, and
there are changes happening on the West Bank now. The
Wall Street Journal reported this morning in the US that
a number of shakes from the Hebron region want to
be done with the Palestinian authority. They want to deal
with they and their tribes want to deal with Israel independently.
(03:27):
There's a lot of changing going on in the Middle
East now, and I think people need to catch up
with it. I think if you look at the West
Bank as a separate problem, there's a better chance for
Israel and Jordan to work out some kind of relationship
that would give everybody something that's that's that would satisfy them.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Why do you think the Israel Iran ceasefire was a mistake.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Because I don't think President Trump's statement about total obliteration
to the contrary, not with state the job was done.
I think the combined Israeli US air strikes did an
awful lot of damage to the program, but it's a
complex operation and there's still a lot more to be
done to save really the world from this threat of
(04:15):
nuclear proliferation. Iran is not just an Israeli problem. It's
an American problem. It's a problem for everybody that doesn't
want to see the spread of nuclear weapons, because that's
what the iotolas are aiming at.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Do you basically think that they were so significantly damaged
that they had an Iran no option, but a ceasefire.
So actually, when you have them at that point, you
should you should just keep going.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I think absolutely we should keep going. The more damage
you inflict, the harder it is for them to get
the nuclear program up and running again, and the safer
the world is from this threat of nuclear proliferation.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Do you think that Pete higgsifth knows what.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
He's doing, not particularly. I mean, I think he is
still in jeopardy of lou using his job as Secretary
of Defense. He may have moved to second place in
the category of next departure from the administration, and maybe
Telsey Gabbard, the Director of National Intelligence, has replaced him,
(05:14):
but I think heg Seth's job is still in jeopardy.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And so what Trump's just keeping an eye on him.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well, I think he's waiting for an opportune moment. Trump
hates to admit that he's made a bad decision, although
he's made a lot of them. So maybe it will
be in August when Congress goes in recess and it's
very hot and humid in Washington and the media take
their vacations. Maybe both Gabbard and heg Seth Go in August.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Interesting. Okay, look the meeting today which you mentioned at
the stop BB and Trump. What do you think we
get out of this?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, I think there are going to be two big subjects.
One is Iran and the nuclear weapons program and whether
the Iyatolas should be allowed to remain in power. The
other is Gaza. I think Trump really really wants Nobel
Peace Prize and he's decided, having failed to bring peace
between Ukraine and Russia, maybe this is the place to
get it. So I think there could be some pretty
(06:10):
tough discussions at this dinner.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
John, listen, thank you very much for your time to
appreciate its John Bolton, former National Security Advisor. For more
from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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