The new Tsar of the health system says the agency has an over-spending problem, not an under-funding problem.
The Government's sacked the board of Health New Zealand, replacing it solely with the chair Lester Levy and giving him a new title of commissioner.
Levy intends to appoint four regional leaders.
The Government claims its overspending at a rate of about $130 million a month.
Incoming Commissioner Lester Levy told Mike Hosking they need to fix the over-spend.
“Because if you don’t do that, then when more money comes in from the Government on behalf of the taxpayer, that money simply goes to fund deficits; it doesn’t actually fund additional health services.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How is Lester Levy, the new Health Commissioner, going to
start this gargantuine mess and deal with it that involves
a budget blowout of allegedly one hundred and thirty million
dollars per month, and given the pushback we've seen since
the government made the announcement on Monday, what's real and
what's politics? Lester Levy is with us. Very good morning
to you.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Article in the Herald this morning by Andrew Little, you'll
know the name Health New Zealand Board sacked. Reform shouldn't
be this bad or hard? Does he have a point
or are you finding a little bit harder than he did? I?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Look, here's a point. At any change, particularly significant change,
is extremely difficult and often isn't as successful as most
people would hope.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Are we any better or worse off than the last
forty years of which I've been in this industry interviewing
people like you talking about the problems and health being
a mess?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah? I think that in many ways for OURDA or
find me, you know, there's memmial things that can be
done for patients comes to become a lot better, But
there is often a lot of change to institutional arrangements
and policies, and I think that's difficult to manage. But
my approach is that's simply I need to deal with
(01:14):
the cards that I have been dealt with, as sorry
dealt and then I need to make the most of
those and try to get help. Is even to or
again in a shape to move forward.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
The best thing I've heard from you since you've got
this job is you said, we don't need any more money. So,
for clarification's sake, at thirty ish billion dollars for health,
we have what we need. It's just how we do it.
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes, I think that's fair, But that's in context I'm
talking about right now, we have an overspending problem and
not an underfunding problem. We need to resolve this because
if you don't do that, then when more money comes
in from the government, on behalf to tax it. There's
many simply goes to fund efficits. It doesn't actually fund
(02:04):
additional health services. So if you have a look at
our situation, we've got one hundred and thirty million a
month over spend. We don't have a one point four
billion dollar hole. I think that's a little inaccurate. But
if we don't do something about this now. By July, sorry,
by journey the next year we end of our financial
yet we will have a one point four billion dollar hole,
(02:28):
and so we need to arrest this situation so we
don't spend. We have got about a one point four
seven billion uplift increase in our fundingbers here, and if
we don't solve this that increase to provide additional services
and to aggress the inforation issues, that'll simply fund their fist.
(02:49):
So that's why I'm saying it is contextual. We need
to get in physical control in place, and we need
to be efficient and effective, and we need to get
our product, you know. And at that point in time,
then if we present that we can perform, that's when
the discussion about how much more or if we need,
but we should do the most other the resources we
(03:12):
currently have.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Let's keep this as simple as we can. Are there
fourteen layers of management.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
There's different answers to those questions. I think a small
hospital there's seven layers between a nurse, for example, and
the chief executive. In a bigger hospital it could be ten,
and in some other areas it could be twelve.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Any excuse for that.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I think that's the way the organization has been structured.
I personally think that the organization looks more like a
public sector agency and a health delivery organization, and that's
a big part of my intent to use the resources.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We have so that well direct. But is that part
of the problem with the board? So when a government
appoints a board, if a certain government of a certain
ideology appoints a board, they'll look at twelve layers and go, well,
this is my whole life. This is all I've ever
seen this as normal as a person who comes in
from the outside and goes, this is ridiculous. Is that
part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, Well, I mean I don't really wish to criticize
because I know hard difiicult this, but it's different perspectives.
But I do think if our objective is to give
as much health delivery to patients, families and communities, and
we need this organization to look like a health delivery organization,
marshall adds much of our resource to the front line
(04:26):
and have as d elocracy as possible. And I don't
think that's a situation right now, and going to address
that situation so it can empower the clinical front line
to deliver war services to patients, families, and communities.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I read apiece yesterday suggesting a lot of the blowout
that one thirty million per month was of the extraordinary
success in recruiting nurses. Is that true?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
That is in part, it's not all of the problem,
but there have been an incredible succession of recruiting nurses
and we have many more nursing full time equivers. Then
we're in the original budget. The other and that's also
a factor now, is labor markets have changed. It finally
has changed, and the turnover rate in the organization, you know,
(05:12):
people eating, that has reduced quite a lot. So we're
never budgets are made. There's an assumption about that, So
that's another factor. But yes, we do have more clinical
ft either we've had before.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Good. So if we go down the track that Retty
and you were talking about, which is frontline versus back office,
you don't actually have one hundred and thirty billion dollar
blowout because a million dollar blowout because in hiring nurses,
that was good expenditure that you want because we need nurses,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It is good expenditure because we're do clinical stuff that
we need to address other parts of the organization so
we don't have that constant over expenditure because we just
cannot be an a situation.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I don't want to ever simplify this, but could you
wade through the fat and simply find one hundred and
thirty million dollars a month by sacking a few people
who aren't doing enough well?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think there's going to be multi dumb mentional that
we will everything that we need to do in order
to get the expense out of control, but to protect
the clinical frontline. And when I'm in clinical frontline, that
includes administrative staff at their clinical line, or people who
are cleaning and people are providing food. Anything that's to
(06:19):
do with the clchinical frontline will be protected. Everything else
we will be looking at where we can reduce costs.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Good stuff and go well with it. Let's de leading,
Who's the new Zealand Health Commissioner US For more from
the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd
be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
How is Lester Levy, the new Health Commissioner, going to
start this gargantuine mess and deal with it that involves
a budget blowout of allegedly one hundred and thirty million
dollars per month, and given the pushback we've seen since
the government made the announcement on Monday, what's real and
what's politics? Lester Levy is with us. Very good morning
to you.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Article in the Herald this morning by Andrew Little, you'll
know the name Health New Zealand Board sacked. Reform shouldn't
be this bad or hard? Does he have a point
or are you finding a little bit harder than he did? I?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Look, here's a point. At any change, particularly significant change,
is extremely difficult and often isn't as successful as most
people would hope.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Are we any better or worse off than the last
forty years of which I've been in this industry interviewing
people like you talking about the problems and health being
a mess?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah? I think that in many ways for OURDA or
find me, you know, there's memmial things that can be
done for patients comes to become a lot better, But
there is often a lot of change to institutional arrangements
and policies, and I think that's difficult to manage. But
my approach is that's simply I need to deal with
(01:14):
the cards that I have been dealt with, as sorry
dealt and then I need to make the most of
those and try to get help. Is even to or
again in a shape to move forward.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
The best thing I've heard from you since you've got
this job is you said, we don't need any more money. So,
for clarification's sake, at thirty ish billion dollars for health,
we have what we need. It's just how we do it.
Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Yes, I think that's fair, But that's in context I'm
talking about right now, we have an overspending problem and
not an underfunding problem. We need to resolve this because
if you don't do that, then when more money comes
in from the government, on behalf to tax it. There's
many simply goes to fund efficits. It doesn't actually fund
(02:04):
additional health services. So if you have a look at
our situation, we've got one hundred and thirty million a
month over spend. We don't have a one point four
billion dollar hole. I think that's a little inaccurate. But
if we don't do something about this now. By July, sorry,
by journey the next year we end of our financial
yet we will have a one point four billion dollar hole,
(02:28):
and so we need to arrest this situation so we
don't spend. We have got about a one point four
seven billion uplift increase in our fundingbers here, and if
we don't solve this that increase to provide additional services
and to aggress the inforation issues, that'll simply fund their fist.
(02:49):
So that's why I'm saying it is contextual. We need
to get in physical control in place, and we need
to be efficient and effective, and we need to get
our product, you know. And at that point in time,
then if we present that we can perform, that's when
the discussion about how much more or if we need,
but we should do the most other the resources we
(03:12):
currently have.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Let's keep this as simple as we can. Are there
fourteen layers of management.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
There's different answers to those questions. I think a small
hospital there's seven layers between a nurse, for example, and
the chief executive. In a bigger hospital it could be ten,
and in some other areas it could be twelve.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Any excuse for that.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well, I think that's the way the organization has been structured.
I personally think that the organization looks more like a
public sector agency and a health delivery organization, and that's
a big part of my intent to use the resources.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
We have so that well direct. But is that part
of the problem with the board? So when a government
appoints a board, if a certain government of a certain
ideology appoints a board, they'll look at twelve layers and go, well,
this is my whole life. This is all I've ever
seen this as normal as a person who comes in
from the outside and goes, this is ridiculous. Is that
part of the problem.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, Well, I mean I don't really wish to criticize
because I know hard difiicult this, but it's different perspectives.
But I do think if our objective is to give
as much health delivery to patients, families and communities, and
we need this organization to look like a health delivery organization,
marshall adds much of our resource to the front line
(04:26):
and have as d elocracy as possible. And I don't
think that's a situation right now, and going to address
that situation so it can empower the clinical front line
to deliver war services to patients, families, and communities.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I read apiece yesterday suggesting a lot of the blowout
that one thirty million per month was of the extraordinary
success in recruiting nurses. Is that true?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
That is in part, it's not all of the problem,
but there have been an incredible succession of recruiting nurses
and we have many more nursing full time equivers. Then
we're in the original budget. The other and that's also
a factor now, is labor markets have changed. It finally
has changed, and the turnover rate in the organization, you know,
(05:12):
people eating, that has reduced quite a lot. So we're
never budgets are made. There's an assumption about that, So
that's another factor. But yes, we do have more clinical
ft either we've had before.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Good. So if we go down the track that Retty
and you were talking about, which is frontline versus back office,
you don't actually have one hundred and thirty billion dollar
blowout because a million dollar blowout because in hiring nurses,
that was good expenditure that you want because we need nurses,
isn't it.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
It is good expenditure because we're do clinical stuff that
we need to address other parts of the organization so
we don't have that constant over expenditure because we just
cannot be an a situation.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
I don't want to ever simplify this, but could you
wade through the fat and simply find one hundred and
thirty million dollars a month by sacking a few people
who aren't doing enough well?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think there's going to be multi dumb mentional that
we will everything that we need to do in order
to get the expense out of control, but to protect
the clinical frontline. And when I'm in clinical frontline, that
includes administrative staff at their clinical line, or people who
are cleaning and people are providing food. Anything that's to
(06:19):
do with the clchinical frontline will be protected. Everything else
we will be looking at where we can reduce costs.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Good stuff and go well with it. Let's de leading,
Who's the new Zealand Health Commissioner US For more from
the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd
be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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