Nicola Willis: Finance Minister on raising the retirement age, outsourcing surgeries, the Northern Motorway speed limit and more

Finance Minister Nicola Willis talks to Mike Hosking about the week's big issues after the budget announcement last week. 

Health New Zealand's aiming to perform more than 30-thousand elective surgeries by June 2026 by outsourcing more straightforward cases to private hospitals. 

Willis says getting doctors and specialists on longer term contracts will get more people the care they need sooner. 

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon last week announced his intention to raise the retirement age. Willis says no discussions have taken place yet, but says the Government would need to be upfront with their plans. 

"At some point, a future government is either going to have to slap a lot more tax on people or it's going to have to front up to whether the settings can be tweaked a little bit," she says. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Prime mister. Not well, so the Finance Minister is
doing the business for us. Nickeler Willisons, Well, that's very
good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good morning, great to be on the show mate.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
How sick is the Prime Minister?

Speaker 2 (00:10):
He's got a virus, just like every human being gets
from time to time. Turns out even prime ministers aren't
one hundred percent immune to everything.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Have you checked that he shouldn't be at work and
he's a bit soft?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Well. I actually saw him on Saturday where he had
on the bravest face I've seen, but I could see
he was in that fog of illness where you're smiling
but on the inside you're dying. And so I was
pleased to hear that he was going to take a
little bit of rest this morning.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, are you cognizant to what's happening on the Northern
Motorway in the speed limit one ten, one hundred, et
cetera or not?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Do you know? I am because Chris Bishop, our Transport Minister,
contacted me last night to say, if you're on Mike tomorrow,
he's going to ask you about this because he is
obsessed with it, and we respect your obsessions. Mike, the
word of se this line of questioning.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
The word obsessed is I take Umbridge at that. But
what I didn't, what I didn't realize, is that you've
only increased a small chunk of it five kilometers and
it's not even the new. But what is wrong with
us that we just can't get on with it?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, look, it's all to do with PPPs and the
requirements of those. But there's still work being done on
it and there will be future developments, and Chris Biship
has said that I can promise you then when those
future developments occur, your show is where they will be announced.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Okay, so how hard is it to just simply say
we've got a brand new piece of road. It's one
hundred and ten enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So what it's about is the requirements for maintenance of
the road and making sure that the specifications are being
met and that that speed can be accommodated within the contracts.
So that's all being worked through.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, you've got a timeline on this.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't, But as I say, Chris Bishop is all
over this and is quite keen to be able to
keep talking to you about it, because, as you know,
we want people to be able to drive faster on
good roads where it's safe to do so, and it
looks like a pretty good road to me.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
The simplicity thing that you did yesterday, the housing that
you're on the news for, were you disappointed? The bloke
who was showing you around went on the news and
said that it's that you depreciation things not good enough
because there's no pipeline anyway. In other words, you showed
you a bit of hospitality than knife jab.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, he's allowed to say what he's going to say,
but I tell you what. I have been genuinely overwhelmed
by the amount of positive feedback I have had about
investment booths so far, to the extent that as I
was flying home yesterday, I had several people come up
to me in the airport. I had someone on the
plane say to me, love that policy. We're going to
bring forward our investment and our vegetable kit that we've

(02:51):
got in the processing plant. I've had farmers telling me
that it's the nudge they need to buy a new tractor.
I've had people, even in a chicken process plants, say
we we're going to do twelve million dollars worth of investment.
It's now going to be eighteen. So we're getting great
feedback across the country that this is the nudge a
lot of businesses need to make those investments and get

(03:12):
growing again.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Do you have any sense, and I mean I think
the answers know, but how much are people going to
spend therefore, how much are they going to depreciate? Therefore
how much are they not going to pay you tax?

Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, there's two parts to it. There's those who are
going to be making investments anyway, so for them this
policy means a bit more cash flow because there's less
tax going to the tax man, more money for them
to invest in their business. And the second thing is
how many new investments get brought forward as a result
of this policy. That's a bit harder to judge, but
when we look around the world at countries who have

(03:43):
done policies like this, the evidence is pretty clear that
people will make investments they wouldn't have otherwise made. And
that's what we've reflected in our costings, that's what we've
reflected in the estimates. And frankly, if we over deliver
on this and it costs more because more people are investing,
I think the growth dividend will be well worth it,
because that means bigger jobs, more pay more opportunities for

(04:06):
New Zealanders.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
I note also this coverage this morning on the business
of this outsourcing of elective operations to the private sector.
I can't work out what's the problem with it. If
you can't do it publicly and you give it to
somebody else to do and it gets done and therefore
it reduces a waiting list, why do people moan about that?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Unfortunately, some people always get bogged down in ideology, don't they.
Whereas I think most New Zealanders just want to get
their hip operation or their cataract operation sooner, and Simeon
Brown is absolutely focused on that target, which is why
he's saying, let's make use of some of those empty
operating theaters in the private sector. Many of our doctors

(04:43):
and specialists work in those hospitals week to week anyway,
so it's not a big change in that sense. But
let's get them on longer term contracts so they can
predict how many operations they'll be doing and get more
people the care that they need sooner. So this is
a good policy, but you can ever deal with the
idea logs.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
They're always out there before he took to his sick bed,
Crystal bal Luxen called the super debate and no brainer.
And I'm assuming you guys are going to the election
next year with it. How do you introduce it, what
age do you go to over what period of time,
and how much political capital do you think you will burn?

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, those are conversations our caucus will need to have
ahead of the election because we think it's very important
that if there were to be any change to this
really major entitlement that many New Zealanders are relying on
for their retirement, that one we're upfront about what we're
planning to change, but two that we give people time
to prepare and to plan because it could be a

(05:42):
significant change. We haven't had those discussions yet. Everyone knows
that at the last election we campaigned on a gradual
increase in the age of eligibility, reflecting the fact that
people are working longer and living longer, and that we
signaled that that would be several years out from the
time of announcement. So we'll have another discussion as a caucus.
The thing is, we're all realists in the National Party.

(06:03):
The cost of superannuation to current and future tax payers
is growing significantly and at some point a future government
is either going to have to slap a lot more
tax on people or is going to have to front
up to whether the settings can be tweaked a little bit.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
What's your sense of whether people will I mean, I
loo looked around various countries. We are a bit of
an outlier. Most people are above sixty five these days,
with an exception. I'm looking at Singapore and Germany. But
apart from that, what's your assessment of whether people get
it or you're in for a fight.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Well, I think people treasure New Zealand superannuation. Even people
who have their own retirement savings and are on good
incomes feel I think that they've paid tax their whole life.
They often haven't taken much from the government, but the
one thing that they're looking forward to is that superannuation
at age sixty five. Now, I don't think that it

(06:55):
is a terrible compromise to be able to say to
some people, well, look you are to get it, but
you need to wait a bit longer. But we'll need
to weigh all of that up and be clear about
when that is and who that's going to affect.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
All right. I appreciate you time. Nicholas All the Finance
minister in for the Prime Minister this Monday morning. We
think the Prime Minister we're sort of sorting something out,
probably for Thursday morning. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast,
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