Today on Politics Wednesday, Mark Mitchell and Ginny Andersen joined Mike Hosking to delve into some of the biggest political stories from the week thus far.
Yesterday was an emotional day for everyone as the Government offered an official apology to the survivors of abuse in state care.
Ginny Andersen was watching the livestream alongside survivors at Shed 6, which she says was a humbling experience.
She told Mike Hosking that she got the opportunity to hear some of the survivors’ experiences during the breaks, and it was a really heavy day.
Mark Mitchell says it was an important historical day for New Zealand as a country.
He told Hosking that although some people say words don’t matter, if the apology is heartfelt it does matter, and the recognition matters as well.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Time for politics. Wednesday, Mark Mitchell's with us along with
Jinny Anderson. Good morning to you both.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Morning, Mike, morning, Jenny, Good morning, Mark, Good morning Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
How were you, Jinny yesterday with the apology? How did
that sort of feel?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I was. I was in shed Sex, so I got
to sit with survivors as we watched the live stream
down in Wellington, and that was a remarkable experience to
sit and watch Parliament alongside people who were heckling politicians
and calling out and responding with their own experiences. So
(00:34):
it was humbling and pretty heavy feeling. And then I
got the opportunity of talking with them because there's a
number of breaks during that time to talk to them,
and they told me about some of their experiences. So
it was it was, it was really heavy, and it
was it felt like a good day, but it was
there was a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
What about you, Marke, Yeah, I just think it was
an emotional day for sort of everyone involved, and it
was a important an important historical day for us as
a country. And I think that, you know, although some
people say words don't matter, I think when it's an
apology and it's a heartfelt apology, then actually it does matter,
and that recognition matters. So I was on one of
(01:17):
one of the ministers involved in the response by the government.
So I spent the full day with survivors. I had
a very interesting long chat with three gang members that
were there, who all want to leave the gang and
looking for ways to do that. But so it's just
it was a good opportunity for all of us to
be able to spend quality time with them and send
a message that they had been heard and now it's
(01:40):
time to move forward.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I've got more questions, but let me just get this
out of the way. Jerry brownly looks and I've got
to agree with them. Where this is not you Mark,
because yeah, there's an operational matter. But where were the police,
for goodness sake? If it was more than heckling, they
were super slow.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think that's make might be going, Oh he's gone.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Look it was I'm pretty sure it was. It was
a Destiny affiliated person who jumped up. It was first
of all, was it was not his day, it was
it was offensive of those survivors who were there. So
usually the police are up there whenever I'm sitting in
question time I can see a police officer up there,
so they typically are around, and so I think it's
(02:25):
hard sometimes in a full gallery physically to weigh in
amongst people and weed someone out, to in phasectionally remove them.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Sorry, for some reason, I dropped out, so I only
got part of your question.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
The question was where were the police. I mean, Browne
was beside himself, and I think right if somebody had
a gun or a bomb or ill intent, it was
too slow.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
So obviously parliamentary security handled it. And by the way,
they did an outstanding job. And if there.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Was, the guy was yelling and renting and raving for
a ludicrous amount of time. I couldn't help a contrast.
And I was watching it live. I couldn't help the contrast.
If that was America, people would have been taken out
within seconds. In fact, they wouldn't have. Given thee was
a serial operator, he wouldn't have been let in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, bearing in mind that he's already come through security,
so he's already had security checks, so he wouldn't have
had weapons in there with them. Secondly that yes, they
could have jumped all over them. There could have been
a big fight with bearing in mind that we had
survivors and we had members of the public in there,
and the best way to handle it was the way
that Parliamentary Services did and that they had to use force.
(03:33):
But they had the numbers there and they removed them
and what I think was probably the least impactful way. Yes,
it was annoying to have the ceremony interrupted like that,
but I think it would have been much worse if
there was serious violence met it out in front of
people that have suffered and gone through what they've gone through.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Geney, I tell you who I sort of felt sorry
for yesterday was the Solicitor General. And I'm not sure
that people understand when all the department had stood up
and said sorry. I thought the Department of Health Guard
was probably the best. But but but Joe Goes, I
don't think that people understand that a lawyer is there
to represent their clients, in this case the government, and
(04:11):
you do your best on behalf of that client and
whether or not it looks to the rest of the
world like the right thing to do is not really
the point, is it.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
She would be acting on behalf of the government, so
the action she took are at that, you know, is
due to that.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So you're right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, I thought her apology was heartfelt, but it was
you could see it was incredibly difficult for her. And
but I have to empathize also with survivors who you know,
her name is on emails. She's obstructing people getting compensation,
so you know, I can see both.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Of you, but under instruction from her clients.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
She's not personally trying to obstruct anyone. She's doing her
job as a solicitor general. And I spoke I win't
spoke to a straight afterwards, because look, there was as
you could see, Mike, there's a lot of emotion in
the day, and these are chief executives that stood up,
and I thought they all did an outstanding job. They're
talking about things that have happened in our past as
a country and making an apology, and so I think
(05:14):
that she's, you know, she's she does an outstanding job.
I hope that she didn't take that personally. I think
it was direct at the office and people were venting,
which is I.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Think people too. It's it's the compensation issue, which is outstanding.
All of the survivors I spoke with, you know, while
the apology is just the start. Abuse is still happening.
There's a lot more work ahead to ensure that our
care systems are safe places. But there are many people
out there who are in the later stages of their
lives who are due compensation. I think that's the outstanding question.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
This is this is the can of worms you've got, Mark,
is that first of all, you must know, you all
must know that no matter what you do, someone somewhere
is going to be unhappy with it all. And so
how you present it when you present it in the
time and there you can feel the pressure already count you, Yeah,
But I.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Mean, you know, we have to respond to that with
the government of the day. And that's what we're doing
is Eric has already made sure that we've put measures
in place. There's four thousand people that are still sitting
there waiting, so we're going to fast track them through
a fast tracked process. And of course the building fled
out a proper readers system that will be launched next year,
(06:21):
because yes, we do want to get this stune quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Did you, Jenny, upon reading Audrey Young's piece in the
Herald basically ranking you the second most effective member of
the opposition, did you shout every one morning tea or.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
No. We haven't head of caucus yet, so I haven't
had the opportunity to offer that. But look, you know,
we've got a really strong team, and I'm proud to
be one of those people. We're Just because you don't
get picked up by Audrey doesn't mean these other hard
people wishing incredibly hard. So yeah, it was nice to
be acknowledged, but lots of other people who didn't get
acknowledged were just as hard as I do.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
She described Duncan web as having a fairly inauspicious stuf
to life in terms of being a cabinet minister, and basically,
she said, is a bit useless, but he might have
come to life. Would you agree with it?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
No, I wouldn't. Thatcken's amazing. It's really good to have
someone with the breadth of legal knowledge that he does
in particularly and constitutional issues, and we work together really
closely on bills such as the Treaty Principles one, which
is coming up this Thursday. So having his knowledge and
background is a huge seat for our team.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
The old Treaty Principles. Bill Mark, here's the text for
you this morning. Hi, Mike, I hope you're going to
give Mark Mitchell grief this morning over the Hikoy protest
posing down lanes on the Auckland Harbor Bridge. How do
you balance that?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, So basically MGTA has come up with a traffic
management plan working with the Hikoy Police are there to
ensure that there is no breach to the peace or
law's being broken. Fundamentally, from what I understand, they crossing
the bridge at nine point thirty. Of course he would
have preferred said a bit later than that. But what's
important in the shutting down. They're not shutting down southbound lanes. Yeah,
(08:03):
that's right, So there's as little impact as possible on people,
which is of course what the aim is. The reality
is it is much better to keep this and organized,
HEIKOI than trying to break it up and splintering it
and you end up with a whole lot of unauthorized
protests going on all over the show, and that would
that would just create absolute chaos.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So you wouldn't it be easier though? But wouldn't it
be easier if Christopher Luxon just told David Seymour to
stick a stupid bell. Wouldn't that be a made be
really easy?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And then then all the people who voted in an
election and the democratic process, Jenny wouldn't have what they
voted for, which would sort of make it slightly complicated.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Which is what a bill that goes nowhere, a bill
that goes nowhere, what is the output or the outcome
for that belt.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I do tend to agree with you on that said,
the weird thing about it's not your problem, Mark, but
I mean how Luxe and got that across the line,
to the point you got it across the lines the
weirdest thing because you guys must have known it was
going to be a pain in your butt in something
you're not supporting.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Well, it's called him MP, and he had a very
difficult job that he had to take on in terms
of negotiating with two other parties and there were bottom
lines around those and he had to negotiate the best
way forward and through that to former government. And Ginny
Anderson and the Labor Party will find out all about
the m MP when they come to the election twenty six, Well,
(09:21):
they'll find out. They'll find out the demands that are
going to be put on them if they want to
campaign try and form a government in twenty twenty six,
they're going to find out that they've got a partner,
i e. To Party marry party, that we're going to
have some pretty ugly demands put on them.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's the racial division. The huge upheaval that's causing is
just a political power deal. That's what key. We have
a tough time, there's no output.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Nice to see you guys. Will catch up next Wednesday.
Appreciate it verty much, Jenny Anderson, Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Time for politics. Wednesday, Mark Mitchell's with us along with
Jinny Anderson. Good morning to you both.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Morning, Mike, morning, Jenny, Good morning, Mark, Good morning Mike.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
How were you, Jinny yesterday with the apology? How did
that sort of feel?
Speaker 3 (00:13):
Well?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
I was. I was in shed Sex, so I got
to sit with survivors as we watched the live stream
down in Wellington, and that was a remarkable experience to
sit and watch Parliament alongside people who were heckling politicians
and calling out and responding with their own experiences. So
(00:34):
it was humbling and pretty heavy feeling. And then I
got the opportunity of talking with them because there's a
number of breaks during that time to talk to them,
and they told me about some of their experiences. So
it was it was, it was really heavy, and it
was it felt like a good day, but it was
there was a lot going on.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
What about you, Marke, Yeah, I just think it was
an emotional day for sort of everyone involved, and it
was a important an important historical day for us as
a country. And I think that, you know, although some
people say words don't matter, I think when it's an
apology and it's a heartfelt apology, then actually it does matter,
and that recognition matters. So I was on one of
(01:17):
one of the ministers involved in the response by the government.
So I spent the full day with survivors. I had
a very interesting long chat with three gang members that
were there, who all want to leave the gang and
looking for ways to do that. But so it's just
it was a good opportunity for all of us to
be able to spend quality time with them and send
a message that they had been heard and now it's
(01:40):
time to move forward.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
I've got more questions, but let me just get this
out of the way. Jerry brownly looks and I've got
to agree with them. Where this is not you Mark,
because yeah, there's an operational matter. But where were the police,
for goodness sake? If it was more than heckling, they
were super slow.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I think that's make might be going, Oh he's gone.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
What do you make of it?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Look it was I'm pretty sure it was. It was
a Destiny affiliated person who jumped up. It was first
of all, was it was not his day, it was
it was offensive of those survivors who were there. So
usually the police are up there whenever I'm sitting in
question time I can see a police officer up there,
so they typically are around, and so I think it's
(02:25):
hard sometimes in a full gallery physically to weigh in
amongst people and weed someone out, to in phasectionally remove them.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Sorry, for some reason, I dropped out, so I only
got part of your question.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
The question was where were the police. I mean, Browne
was beside himself, and I think right if somebody had
a gun or a bomb or ill intent, it was
too slow.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
So obviously parliamentary security handled it. And by the way,
they did an outstanding job. And if there.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Was, the guy was yelling and renting and raving for
a ludicrous amount of time. I couldn't help a contrast.
And I was watching it live. I couldn't help the contrast.
If that was America, people would have been taken out
within seconds. In fact, they wouldn't have. Given thee was
a serial operator, he wouldn't have been let in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, bearing in mind that he's already come through security,
so he's already had security checks, so he wouldn't have
had weapons in there with them. Secondly that yes, they
could have jumped all over them. There could have been
a big fight with bearing in mind that we had
survivors and we had members of the public in there,
and the best way to handle it was the way
that Parliamentary Services did and that they had to use force.
(03:33):
But they had the numbers there and they removed them
and what I think was probably the least impactful way. Yes,
it was annoying to have the ceremony interrupted like that,
but I think it would have been much worse if
there was serious violence met it out in front of
people that have suffered and gone through what they've gone through.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Geney, I tell you who I sort of felt sorry
for yesterday was the Solicitor General. And I'm not sure
that people understand when all the department had stood up
and said sorry. I thought the Department of Health Guard
was probably the best. But but but Joe Goes, I
don't think that people understand that a lawyer is there
to represent their clients, in this case the government, and
(04:11):
you do your best on behalf of that client and
whether or not it looks to the rest of the
world like the right thing to do is not really
the point, is it.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
She would be acting on behalf of the government, so
the action she took are at that, you know, is
due to that.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
So you're right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah, I thought her apology was heartfelt, but it was
you could see it was incredibly difficult for her. And
but I have to empathize also with survivors who you know,
her name is on emails. She's obstructing people getting compensation,
so you know, I can see both.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Of you, but under instruction from her clients.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
She's not personally trying to obstruct anyone. She's doing her
job as a solicitor general. And I spoke I win't
spoke to a straight afterwards, because look, there was as
you could see, Mike, there's a lot of emotion in
the day, and these are chief executives that stood up,
and I thought they all did an outstanding job. They're
talking about things that have happened in our past as
a country and making an apology, and so I think
(05:14):
that she's, you know, she's she does an outstanding job.
I hope that she didn't take that personally. I think
it was direct at the office and people were venting,
which is I.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Think people too. It's it's the compensation issue, which is outstanding.
All of the survivors I spoke with, you know, while
the apology is just the start. Abuse is still happening.
There's a lot more work ahead to ensure that our
care systems are safe places. But there are many people
out there who are in the later stages of their
lives who are due compensation. I think that's the outstanding question.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
This is this is the can of worms you've got, Mark,
is that first of all, you must know, you all
must know that no matter what you do, someone somewhere
is going to be unhappy with it all. And so
how you present it when you present it in the
time and there you can feel the pressure already count you, Yeah,
But I.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Mean, you know, we have to respond to that with
the government of the day. And that's what we're doing
is Eric has already made sure that we've put measures
in place. There's four thousand people that are still sitting
there waiting, so we're going to fast track them through
a fast tracked process. And of course the building fled
out a proper readers system that will be launched next year,
(06:21):
because yes, we do want to get this stune quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Did you, Jenny, upon reading Audrey Young's piece in the
Herald basically ranking you the second most effective member of
the opposition, did you shout every one morning tea or.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
No. We haven't head of caucus yet, so I haven't
had the opportunity to offer that. But look, you know,
we've got a really strong team, and I'm proud to
be one of those people. We're Just because you don't
get picked up by Audrey doesn't mean these other hard
people wishing incredibly hard. So yeah, it was nice to
be acknowledged, but lots of other people who didn't get
acknowledged were just as hard as I do.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
She described Duncan web as having a fairly inauspicious stuf
to life in terms of being a cabinet minister, and basically,
she said, is a bit useless, but he might have
come to life. Would you agree with it?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
No, I wouldn't. Thatcken's amazing. It's really good to have
someone with the breadth of legal knowledge that he does
in particularly and constitutional issues, and we work together really
closely on bills such as the Treaty Principles one, which
is coming up this Thursday. So having his knowledge and
background is a huge seat for our team.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
The old Treaty Principles. Bill Mark, here's the text for
you this morning. Hi, Mike, I hope you're going to
give Mark Mitchell grief this morning over the Hikoy protest
posing down lanes on the Auckland Harbor Bridge. How do
you balance that?
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, So basically MGTA has come up with a traffic
management plan working with the Hikoy Police are there to
ensure that there is no breach to the peace or
law's being broken. Fundamentally, from what I understand, they crossing
the bridge at nine point thirty. Of course he would
have preferred said a bit later than that. But what's
important in the shutting down. They're not shutting down southbound lanes. Yeah,
(08:03):
that's right, So there's as little impact as possible on people,
which is of course what the aim is. The reality
is it is much better to keep this and organized,
HEIKOI than trying to break it up and splintering it
and you end up with a whole lot of unauthorized
protests going on all over the show, and that would
that would just create absolute chaos.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
So you wouldn't it be easier though? But wouldn't it
be easier if Christopher Luxon just told David Seymour to
stick a stupid bell. Wouldn't that be a made be
really easy?
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And then then all the people who voted in an
election and the democratic process, Jenny wouldn't have what they
voted for, which would sort of make it slightly complicated.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Which is what a bill that goes nowhere, a bill
that goes nowhere, what is the output or the outcome
for that belt.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I do tend to agree with you on that said,
the weird thing about it's not your problem, Mark, but
I mean how Luxe and got that across the line,
to the point you got it across the lines the
weirdest thing because you guys must have known it was
going to be a pain in your butt in something
you're not supporting.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Well, it's called him MP, and he had a very
difficult job that he had to take on in terms
of negotiating with two other parties and there were bottom
lines around those and he had to negotiate the best
way forward and through that to former government. And Ginny
Anderson and the Labor Party will find out all about
the m MP when they come to the election twenty six, Well,
(09:21):
they'll find out. They'll find out the demands that are
going to be put on them if they want to
campaign try and form a government in twenty twenty six,
they're going to find out that they've got a partner,
i e. To Party marry party, that we're going to
have some pretty ugly demands put on them.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
That's the racial division. The huge upheaval that's causing is
just a political power deal. That's what key. We have
a tough time, there's no output.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Nice to see you guys. Will catch up next Wednesday.
Appreciate it verty much, Jenny Anderson, Mark Mitchell.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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