Labour says homeowner protections will need to go hand-in-hand with Government's proposed building consents scheme.
The reforms will allow tradespeople to consent their own work for basic housing, foregoing inspections.
Criteria is also being considered for businesses with a track record of delivering bigger projects to access streamlined consenting.
Labour's Housing Spokesperson Kieran McAnulty told Mike Hosking customer protections like indemnity insurance are key.
He says homeowners need confidence and if the legislation is wishy-washy, it won't work.
National’s Mark Mitchell agrees, saying that there is a balance to be found, but we have to look at sensible ways of making it easier and cheaper to build houses.
He says they have world-class tradespeople who can be trusted to self-certify.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Kieren macinnulty is in once again for the absent Ginny Anderson,
and Mark Mitchell is with us as well. Gentlemen, good
morning to you mate. Now, Kieren without I don't want
to get into this. You know, it's not your job
to defeat. Can you explain Ginny and her actions sometimes?
Can you sort of what's going on there? Do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I assume you're referring to the recent mistake that she
made by sharing that Facebook post or Instagram post. Yeah, yeah, no,
I can't explain that, and neither can she. She said
it was a mistake, she said she regrets it, and
she's apologized, which is the appropriate thing to do.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That is true. I just wonder do you have, like
I don't know, classes, courses for people going there's if
there's a red flag, a presence of a red flag,
the thought of a red flag. You know, this might
get you any of those sort of advice floating around
the Labor Caucus at any point in time.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Look, it is appropriate that she apologized, and it's apprope
bet that she regrets doing it. I'm not going to
shy away from that. But I don't think we should
make this out to be worthy of those sorts of courses.
I mean, at the end of the day, it was
a sheared post. If she'd said this to the king,
or said this in person about the King, then that
would be very serious. But sharing a post and then
reading it doesn't warrant no sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Mate, Are you on social media?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Mark?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yes, I am, but I'm not a big One of
the great frustrations for our social media team is that
I'm not as president as they think I should be.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Maybe that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Who Yeah, I just think look with Jenny, I just
think people judge it for themselves. I mean, you know,
focused on the things that matter, right, the King's pants.
So it's all a bit ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
There it is. Do you you sound funny? You're not
in the country. Have you got a cold?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Or I have got a little bit of a what
he called I'm not onto okay?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Are you on the pseudo epha dream?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
No, I'm not today. It doesn't need them.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
He does thirty push ups a day, mikeel.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, that is true, Kieren, And have you done yet?
Market's ten past six of you cracks through the thirty yet.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I haven't done them yet.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
But at six o'clock in the morning over here, So
I'll do them after we've had our chat.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, can you film them put them on social media?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I thought about doing that actually now, Kieran, I am
way of the hotel.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
It okay, I'm I'm excited almost to see you seemingly
backing the government on this building consent stuff. Broadly speaking,
it makes sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It does, And it was something that I've been personally
speaking with the Master Plumbers about for some time and
have held some sympathy for their position there. I mean,
you've got guys that many of their members aren't just plumbers,
but are also guessed for it as as well. So
for one of their trade they're able to self certify
and for another that not. And we mustn't forget that
(03:00):
the leaky building saga that we went through wasn't the
fault of plumbers. But we also need to and reasonably
express potential concerns to make sure we get the balance
right here. You know, we've got world class trades people
in this country, but they've been plagued by cowboys for
as long as they've been around, and we can't let
that integrity be undermined. And we also can't put homeowners
(03:24):
in the site here because they've already suffered enough through
vicky building. So there is a balance that I think
we can strike, and it's reasonable to point it out
that way.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right, would you see yourself navigating safely through this mark?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I agree. I just think that there is a balance here.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
But the one thing that we do have to do
as a country is we have to look at sensible
ways of making it easier and cheaper to build houses.
And I look, and I agree with Crean, is that
we have world class trades people that can be trusted,
and right now some of them are. They can self certify,
So you know, Chris Pink is working through that in
a careful way.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
How do I does it not put the onus on
me the punter? So you go along with a juj
Gardener on earlier on, So juj Gardener got a good reputation,
I go to Juj Gardener, I can feel confident in
their self certifying. What if I go down to Bob.
Bob seems like a nice guy, but Bob turns out
to be a croc? How do I tell?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, I mean that's what That's exactly what Karen's sort
of talking about is how do we still have all
the ability for consumers to be able to sort of
check that out and make sure they are dealing with
someone that's reputable in a proper trades person that will
actually do a good job.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But look that I'm not in that detail.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Obviously it's Chris Pink's line of work, but I think
that does have to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Bring indemnity insurance is crucial. Ultimately, if people meet certain
criteria that gives consumers confidence, then we'll be able to
move forward. If that's not there, or it's wishy washy,
or there's loopholes, that's where things can fall over. So
at the moment, the government's put out a consultation document
and I imagine people will engage with that. We certainly will,
(04:55):
and I've got a lot of time for Chris Penky'
is a reasonable guy and I think you will work
with try to get this right. Everyone wants certainty and
this is a good way to go about it when
you work together.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Mark, when you called the Mongrel mob idiots yesterday, what
do you call them? Were you calling them idiots from
Sydney or did you call them idiots and Wellington then
leave for Sydney because I'm sure I saw you and
willing to.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I was, but I called them idiots from Sydney.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So it was purely though the question the journalist asked
me or sort of put forward some of the behavior
that they're exhibiting around you know, seek Hiland, barking lot
dogs and knocking on people, you know, hitting people's windows
and abusing members of the public, and I said, yeah,
it's pretty symptomatic of the antisocial behavior these idiots engage in,
so which I stand by.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And having said that though, because the Prime Minister was
asked and I watched that yesterday and he said, you're
on it and the police are on it. When everyone's
on it, it's all fantastic. But what I saw from
what they were doing is no one's on it. They
sort of ran rampant when nunts went home and you
guys just wander around going, oh, don't worry, we're on
top of the gangs. They didn't seem to be on
top of the all.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Quite the opposite. For the last twelve months, they have
been controlled, they've been protect now I'm talking about around
these convoys.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, I know, but it was just it was a
carry on of what they've been doing for twelve months.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Is they had plenty of police resources there the roads.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Yes, the police warned the day before that there's going
to be conditioned because when you get a lot of
vehicles coming into an area, then that happens. But they
kept the traffic flowing. There were no risks because there
was no illegal behavior. Yes, there's a bit of disorder around,
doble stuff and things like that. The police will follow
up on that, but fundamentally they do then outstanding job
of controlling these convoys. Normally they just come and take
(06:35):
over roads, driving to oncoming traffic, abuse, inciminate, you know,
all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But the police really did handle it very well yesterday.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Do you reckon that's true, Karen, I do.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I think the police did an exceptional job with the
resources that they've got. We've had an incident and wided
up recently where the police that us proud and basically
managed to deal with an incredibly serious situation that could
have been life threatening. And I think actually the way
the police handed it was able to preserve life because
it could have got out of hand really quickly with
(07:12):
many people breaking cars, and bumping into people trying to
do skids, etc. These board races and spectators. It's a
real worry, particularly when crowds outnumber the police that are
on hand, and the reality is that you won't be
able to have the number of police required at any
given time in a town like Masterden. The solution to
(07:34):
that is ensuring that communication is strong and intelligent, sharing
is strong so that resources can be shifted when it's required.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But those local.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Police that dealt with that recently did an exceptional job.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
They're running big operations against these guys, and I think
you and raises a really good point in relation to
our polices that I was at an awards ceremony recently.
We're most of the awards handed out to police officers
for saving lives.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
We don't often talk about that. It's not always visible
to the public.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And by the way, one was saving the life of
an offender, So you know, they just we should be.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Very proud of our police service.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
They do an outstanding job, and they are working hard
running operations and really are starting to hit on top
of this boy roaster and the gags, and I'm really
proud of the work.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
They're doing good stuff. Karen. I watch parlor, I watch
question time, and I see you stand up a lot
and them to say point of order, mister speaker, point
of order. All that sort of stuff is brownly ruining
question in time.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
No, I don't think so. I have a really good
working relationship with the Speaker. In fact, I think if
you look back to previous parliaments, people in my role,
the shadow leader of the House role, actually stood up
for more points of order. I've got to the point
where I'd like to think that if I do stand
up for a point of order, it's because I have
a genuine point. It's not because I'm trying to make
(08:49):
a political point. That's not my style. Because you want
to be taken seriously and at the end of the day,
points of order are there to raise a question of
parliamentary privilege, of which I'm learning a lot, and I
like to think that we've got a good working relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay, what about you, Mark? I mean, you spend a
lot of time in Sydney and not in the House,
and every time I see Luxe and How, I say,
why aren't you opening the house up? You know, whether
whether anyone supports your government or not, you've got a
lot of work on and you can only pass law
if the house is open, and the house never seems
to be open.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, what does a spell of the rumor that I
spent a lot of time in Sydney. I don't that's
what I did. I think.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I'm over here to support and mate that they had
to show last night at the Sydney oper House. But look,
Karen's you're right. He does his job as the you know,
opposition leader of the House. He has to raise points
of order because he has to try and make sure
the opposition are given a fair crack in the house.
I think Jurry does an outstanding job as a speaker.
(09:53):
He's got grevitas and you know, and it's a boysterous
house at times, and sometimes it should be. It's a
place where it should be some pretty bocheous de boat
going on. Look, there's a bit of bean that goes
on between Cured and eyes that we score each other
in terms of how many how successful he's on with
his points of order, and he reminds me how unsuccessfully
with my points of order.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Good. That's true, that's true.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
But look, it's not to say that we're not happy
with the behavior of certain members and ministers. But the
question was about the speaker, and I think he's doing
a good job.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Okay, good stuf. Nice to see you both appreciate it
very much. Curre and macinaughty travel well. Make appreciate it.
Mike Mitchell career, Macinualty with Politics Wednesday for another week.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Kieren macinnulty is in once again for the absent Ginny Anderson,
and Mark Mitchell is with us as well. Gentlemen, good
morning to you mate. Now, Kieren without I don't want
to get into this. You know, it's not your job
to defeat. Can you explain Ginny and her actions sometimes?
Can you sort of what's going on there? Do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well?
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I assume you're referring to the recent mistake that she
made by sharing that Facebook post or Instagram post. Yeah, yeah, no,
I can't explain that, and neither can she. She said
it was a mistake, she said she regrets it, and
she's apologized, which is the appropriate thing to do.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
That is true. I just wonder do you have, like
I don't know, classes, courses for people going there's if
there's a red flag, a presence of a red flag,
the thought of a red flag. You know, this might
get you any of those sort of advice floating around
the Labor Caucus at any point in time.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Look, it is appropriate that she apologized, and it's apprope
bet that she regrets doing it. I'm not going to
shy away from that. But I don't think we should
make this out to be worthy of those sorts of courses.
I mean, at the end of the day, it was
a sheared post. If she'd said this to the king,
or said this in person about the King, then that
would be very serious. But sharing a post and then
reading it doesn't warrant no sorts of things.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Mate, Are you on social media?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Mark?
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Yes, I am, but I'm not a big One of
the great frustrations for our social media team is that
I'm not as president as they think I should be.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Maybe that's a good thing.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Who Yeah, I just think look with Jenny, I just
think people judge it for themselves. I mean, you know,
focused on the things that matter, right, the King's pants.
So it's all a bit ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
There it is. Do you you sound funny? You're not
in the country. Have you got a cold?
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Or I have got a little bit of a what
he called I'm not onto okay?
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Are you on the pseudo epha dream?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
No, I'm not today. It doesn't need them.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
He does thirty push ups a day, mikeel.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Well, that is true, Kieren, And have you done yet?
Market's ten past six of you cracks through the thirty yet.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
I haven't done them yet.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
But at six o'clock in the morning over here, So
I'll do them after we've had our chat.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, can you film them put them on social media?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:20):
I thought about doing that actually now, Kieran, I am
way of the hotel.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
It okay, I'm I'm excited almost to see you seemingly
backing the government on this building consent stuff. Broadly speaking,
it makes sense, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
It does, And it was something that I've been personally
speaking with the Master Plumbers about for some time and
have held some sympathy for their position there. I mean,
you've got guys that many of their members aren't just plumbers,
but are also guessed for it as as well. So
for one of their trade they're able to self certify
and for another that not. And we mustn't forget that
(03:00):
the leaky building saga that we went through wasn't the
fault of plumbers. But we also need to and reasonably
express potential concerns to make sure we get the balance
right here. You know, we've got world class trades people
in this country, but they've been plagued by cowboys for
as long as they've been around, and we can't let
that integrity be undermined. And we also can't put homeowners
(03:24):
in the site here because they've already suffered enough through
vicky building. So there is a balance that I think
we can strike, and it's reasonable to point it out
that way.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Right, would you see yourself navigating safely through this mark?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I agree. I just think that there is a balance here.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
But the one thing that we do have to do
as a country is we have to look at sensible
ways of making it easier and cheaper to build houses.
And I look, and I agree with Crean, is that
we have world class trades people that can be trusted,
and right now some of them are. They can self certify,
So you know, Chris Pink is working through that in
a careful way.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
How do I does it not put the onus on
me the punter? So you go along with a juj
Gardener on earlier on, So juj Gardener got a good reputation,
I go to Juj Gardener, I can feel confident in
their self certifying. What if I go down to Bob.
Bob seems like a nice guy, but Bob turns out
to be a croc? How do I tell?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Yeah, I mean that's what That's exactly what Karen's sort
of talking about is how do we still have all
the ability for consumers to be able to sort of
check that out and make sure they are dealing with
someone that's reputable in a proper trades person that will
actually do a good job.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
But look that I'm not in that detail.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Obviously it's Chris Pink's line of work, but I think
that does have to be addressed.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Bring indemnity insurance is crucial. Ultimately, if people meet certain
criteria that gives consumers confidence, then we'll be able to
move forward. If that's not there, or it's wishy washy,
or there's loopholes, that's where things can fall over. So
at the moment, the government's put out a consultation document
and I imagine people will engage with that. We certainly will,
(04:55):
and I've got a lot of time for Chris Penky'
is a reasonable guy and I think you will work
with try to get this right. Everyone wants certainty and
this is a good way to go about it when
you work together.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Mark, when you called the Mongrel mob idiots yesterday, what
do you call them? Were you calling them idiots from
Sydney or did you call them idiots and Wellington then
leave for Sydney because I'm sure I saw you and
willing to.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
I was, but I called them idiots from Sydney.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
So it was purely though the question the journalist asked
me or sort of put forward some of the behavior
that they're exhibiting around you know, seek Hiland, barking lot
dogs and knocking on people, you know, hitting people's windows
and abusing members of the public, and I said, yeah,
it's pretty symptomatic of the antisocial behavior these idiots engage in,
so which I stand by.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
And having said that though, because the Prime Minister was
asked and I watched that yesterday and he said, you're
on it and the police are on it. When everyone's
on it, it's all fantastic. But what I saw from
what they were doing is no one's on it. They
sort of ran rampant when nunts went home and you
guys just wander around going, oh, don't worry, we're on
top of the gangs. They didn't seem to be on
top of the all.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Quite the opposite. For the last twelve months, they have
been controlled, they've been protect now I'm talking about around
these convoys.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
Yeah, I know, but it was just it was a
carry on of what they've been doing for twelve months.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Is they had plenty of police resources there the roads.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Yes, the police warned the day before that there's going
to be conditioned because when you get a lot of
vehicles coming into an area, then that happens. But they
kept the traffic flowing. There were no risks because there
was no illegal behavior. Yes, there's a bit of disorder around,
doble stuff and things like that. The police will follow
up on that, but fundamentally they do then outstanding job
of controlling these convoys. Normally they just come and take
(06:35):
over roads, driving to oncoming traffic, abuse, inciminate, you know,
all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
But the police really did handle it very well yesterday.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Do you reckon that's true, Karen, I do.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I think the police did an exceptional job with the
resources that they've got. We've had an incident and wided
up recently where the police that us proud and basically
managed to deal with an incredibly serious situation that could
have been life threatening. And I think actually the way
the police handed it was able to preserve life because
it could have got out of hand really quickly with
(07:12):
many people breaking cars, and bumping into people trying to
do skids, etc. These board races and spectators. It's a
real worry, particularly when crowds outnumber the police that are
on hand, and the reality is that you won't be
able to have the number of police required at any
given time in a town like Masterden. The solution to
(07:34):
that is ensuring that communication is strong and intelligent, sharing
is strong so that resources can be shifted when it's required.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
But those local.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Police that dealt with that recently did an exceptional job.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
They're running big operations against these guys, and I think
you and raises a really good point in relation to
our polices that I was at an awards ceremony recently.
We're most of the awards handed out to police officers
for saving lives.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
We don't often talk about that. It's not always visible
to the public.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
And by the way, one was saving the life of
an offender, So you know, they just we should be.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Very proud of our police service.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
They do an outstanding job, and they are working hard
running operations and really are starting to hit on top
of this boy roaster and the gags, and I'm really
proud of the work.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
They're doing good stuff. Karen. I watch parlor, I watch
question time, and I see you stand up a lot
and them to say point of order, mister speaker, point
of order. All that sort of stuff is brownly ruining
question in time.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
No, I don't think so. I have a really good
working relationship with the Speaker. In fact, I think if
you look back to previous parliaments, people in my role,
the shadow leader of the House role, actually stood up
for more points of order. I've got to the point
where I'd like to think that if I do stand
up for a point of order, it's because I have
a genuine point. It's not because I'm trying to make
(08:49):
a political point. That's not my style. Because you want
to be taken seriously and at the end of the day,
points of order are there to raise a question of
parliamentary privilege, of which I'm learning a lot, and I
like to think that we've got a good working relationship.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay, what about you, Mark? I mean, you spend a
lot of time in Sydney and not in the House,
and every time I see Luxe and How, I say,
why aren't you opening the house up? You know, whether
whether anyone supports your government or not, you've got a
lot of work on and you can only pass law
if the house is open, and the house never seems
to be open.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Well, what does a spell of the rumor that I
spent a lot of time in Sydney. I don't that's
what I did. I think.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I'm over here to support and mate that they had
to show last night at the Sydney oper House. But look,
Karen's you're right. He does his job as the you know,
opposition leader of the House. He has to raise points
of order because he has to try and make sure
the opposition are given a fair crack in the house.
I think Jurry does an outstanding job as a speaker.
(09:53):
He's got grevitas and you know, and it's a boysterous
house at times, and sometimes it should be. It's a
place where it should be some pretty bocheous de boat
going on. Look, there's a bit of bean that goes
on between Cured and eyes that we score each other
in terms of how many how successful he's on with
his points of order, and he reminds me how unsuccessfully
with my points of order.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Good. That's true, that's true.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
But look, it's not to say that we're not happy
with the behavior of certain members and ministers. But the
question was about the speaker, and I think he's doing
a good job.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Okay, good stuf. Nice to see you both appreciate it
very much. Curre and macinaughty travel well. Make appreciate it.
Mike Mitchell career, Macinualty with Politics Wednesday for another week.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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