Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Time for politics Wednesday, and Ginny Anders is with us.
Very good morning to you, good morning, and Mark Mitchell's
weathers Mark a very good morning to you. Morning morning, now, Ginny,
what happened yesterday?
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I got up my teeth and coffee. The stitches stretches.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Just for the record, yoga yoga, okay, just for the record,
Just for the record. No money has ever exchanged hands.
So my advice to you is free and it's it's
and I'm agnostic on parties on this, so I'm happy
to help anybody. But if I am going to help you, Ginny,
You've got to follow my advice. And I just I
(00:42):
didn't like what I saw yesterday and fair enough, and
things went awry, didn't they?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well? I thought, you know, there was there were some
good moments in there. There were some highlights for me.
I'm not speaking for both of us clearly, but there
are a few high high points for me.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I agree with you, Mike. She completely departed your advice.
Bush was on fire and completely totally old questions.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Go back and what he got pretty angry end if
that was the fire, he got pretty furry, well angry.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Let me show you how it's done. Listen, listen, listen
to what I regard as the highlight of question time
yesterday when.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
The Minister listened to Mike Hoskin who said that Nikola
Willis's super market announcement was quote get another diatribe about
what needs to be done, what could be done, and
what might be done quote a speech of hopeless contradictions
and quote for a government with an image of more
talk than action. She didn't do anything to help that reputation.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Now what did Bishop do apart from go red in
the face and he had nowhere to go? Did he? Ginny?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, I think you just need to criticize the government
more and then we'll get some great quotes to be
able to do again question time. It's a win one situation.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
What I like, the only stick they've got to lean
on and all positioned as you by can when they
when they when they fail to take the advice that
you're helpfully giving them, they have a complete disaster from
the house.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Because what I liked about it actually, and you can
pass this on I don't know Renna from a bar
or soap, but please pass it on her delivery. Because
when Brooke quoted me, a couple of weeks ago, she
butchered it, whereas Arena just delivered it beautifully and can
is good.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
In the house, I'll pass it on.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I'll pass it on.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
She's probably already listening, but I'll make sure she hears
by passing it on when I see it.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, that was high quality stuff. Do we want to
talk about Palestine because I'm so over it and I
just don't know Mark from your side of the equation,
and don't tell me what happened, But I mean, so
you declear Palestine estate for what?
Speaker 3 (02:42):
So basically that is I'm not going to comment on that.
That is a decision for the foreignerists and the Prime
Minister to work through, and they've been thoughtful about how
they do that. Our primary concern at the moment is
getting aid into Gaza to make sure that people are
actually getting the basics that they need. It's it's obviously
a tragedy on every but the work that I've been
doing is if the Communities Minister is quite simply putting
(03:04):
a piece of cord together that we signed at Government
House two weeks ago with our Muslim and Jewish leaders
to make sure that the conflict that we currently sit
wriness seen around the world, not just Israel and Gaza.
But the global conflict doesn't wash up on our shores
here in New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
No, well it hasn't so far, see Jenny. I mean,
as altruistic as it may seem, what's the point of
doing stuff that makes no difference?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, how do we know that?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean we know that because one hundred and fifty
countries have already done it.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Well that the important point, I believe is that we
need to take united stand against what we're seeing, which
is children dying from starvation.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
But I think that's separate to declaring statehood.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, but if it can go some way to try
and stop there, but it doesn't destruction of life, Well,
if there's a hope there, I think there's worthwhile trying
to instead of just standing back and living.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
The point is Hamas, and you don't want to don't
to want to address Hamas for some reason, who are
a terrorist group, who are responsible for the awful tech
on Israel on seventh October and the atrocities that occurred
there that sparked this conflict. And also they've got a
whole heap of hostages that haven't been released and returned yet,
(04:19):
so that issue has to be dealt with as well.
I agree with you. The humanitarian disaster up view is awful.
The international community should be doing everything that we do
can do to get aid into there. We all know
that it needs a two state solution. That quite something
is going to be put together by the leadership of
the Palestine, the Palestinian people and the Israeli people. But well,
(04:44):
in the long term years, those are the only two.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean, that's the point, isn't it. Mark That Yes,
I completely agree with you that we need a two
state solution, but what we're seeing over there right now
isn't looking like that, is so, and so we need
more preci And this is the point of standing together
united as it puts as much pressure as possible for
a two state solution to occur.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
All right, all, let me.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Take state solution. But I'm just all I'm saying is this.
Having lived up there for twelve years on my closest
friends are Arabs. I lived in the Middle East for
twelve years. I've got a pretty good feeling about what's
going on, about what the locals think about it, and
that is quite simply that yes, everyone wants a two
state solution. No one can see a peaceful outcome for
the Middle East until there is a two state solution.
(05:26):
But the two groups that are going to drive that
is a responsible Palestinian government voted in by the Palestinian
But that's responsible government.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, but that's the problem though. Every time they vote,
they vote for our mass. Let's not dig ourselves a
big enough whole, just for just a programming note. Jenny,
are you under the weather? I am a little bit.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Is there something going around? Because I was listened to
Bishop yesterday in the house he sounded under the weather
as well. Is there a bug all over the place?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Flew some sort of flu going around.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
At the moment.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
We had a sort of a three week sitting session
and then a recess where we all went lot to
play for outside. Anyway, I went from Auckland to Queen
Sound to christ Church and Becky Game and then you're
back into a sitting session. So I think at times
like that, where you just keep going and it's winter,
you just get exposed to thinking about rundown.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Okay, would that be Willow jene Prime's excuse for not
answering the email.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, I think we've covered that one well and good
that she'sated stated that she could have communicated better in
that space.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
And so what do you like her? She seems lazy,
not to put too fine a point on.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
It, I like you very much and know she's definitely not.
She works incredibly hard and she's been working really well
in that education portfolio. Take a good look at the
areas well to really understand why are we're taking six
weeks to consult on a major overhaul.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
But the weird thing was she was out there talking
to a sector and she said, I'm talking with the sector.
I'm talking with the sector, and what the sector is
telling me is there's too much secrecy going on. So
surely at that point you'd go and tell you what
sector I'm going to go talk to my friend Erica,
who's gonna who's invited me to tell me all about it?
Wouldn't you instead of saying that secret?
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I hear what you're saying. But let me be very clear,
she is working incredibly hard to understand what those changes
mean for children any appearance, and in the fact that
they're checking stuff and like AI is going to check
it without anyone knowing what that means. It's right that
she gets stuck in and asks those questions, and part
of that work is to get Eric.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Erica invited her months ago to engage, not once.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
It's all I almost feel sorry for you, Jenny. I mean,
it's indefensible and new count defender, and I've done a
way you'd bother about having said that. Well, what about
her claims about the myth use and the fight clubs.
That turns out again that's true.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
I mean again, those are the marcus who's this for?
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Well, both of you, anyone who wants to those clubs
and the myths.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Well, well the problem with theater is they are extremely
serious allegations. So she doesn't seem to be able to
back it up, and everyone's going, what are you talking about?
It were yeah, which you know she won't come forward with.
So yeah, no, it looks like that's a whole lot
of rubbish. It's really serious allegations. The Minister, of course,
will have a look at that. But the effect of
the matter is she hasn't even been able to substantiate.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Do you know who hot sources? Jinny?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I do not have that information, but it does point
to the fact that there have been really serious concerns
raised around those book kemps that eighty percent reoffending goes
to the point that they don't work, and there have
been some really questionable issues in the past. I think
it's only right that we ask that they're being run appropriately.
Now give it. Can I finish place?
Speaker 1 (08:37):
You can ask with false allegations, though it's not asking,
that's sort of suggesting something it isn't happening.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Well, there's no evidence that they're false allegations. The Minister
has taken a look and we're interested to know if
anything more comes to light. If it's not, that's a
good thing. It means that they're safe.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, they are false allegations. If you can't cooperate them,
you can't come forward with serious allegations like that. It
puts sustained across all of those people there working hard,
and those youth justice facilities and say, oh, we can
just come out with allegations.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
I actually thought to be fair, the two who didn't reoffend,
I know, eighties high, but I mean these were the
worst of the worst. The two who didn't reoffend I
thought was sort of nothing, sort of a miracle.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Well, it's nothing compared to nothing. It's nothing compared to
what the results we were seeing from the fast Track
program which runs in South Auckland, which is around eighty
percent not reoffending, and that program, that program is still
in place because this government knows it works, and it
was the one single factor that I believe drove ount
rate offending.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So very quickly. On this, I agree with you that
the whole purpose of the Youth Military Academy is they
fail and fast Track they fail everywhere and they go
into the adult youth justice system. These are the worst
youth offenders, those serious violent recidivus defenders. You need to
have a strong intervention. That's exactly what the academy is
set up for. And I agree with you it has
(09:57):
been very successful because although it hasn't turned off the
tap and they've stopped defending overnight, that's not going to happen.
They're all older kids that have been offending for a
long time. The seriousness of the offending is reducing, and
the and the and the amount of offending is also reducing.
So this is hitting in the right direction. They're not
going to stop it limited.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
To it even said that they wouldn't work, and the
results show that they haven't worked. I mean, how much
did that cost?
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Mike? That was the cost? Questions the cost. It's fair cool.
But having having said that, if you let things linger
in fester, which have, it's going to cost you more't
It's like you don't paint your house off and it's
going to cost you more when you did.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So the resulting program is quite simply there's been a
reduction in the offending, which means a reduction of victims.
There's been a reduction in the seriousness of the offending,
which is good for the for everyone. And by the way,
if we didn't make this intervention, Ginny, they are on
a fast track into the adult criminal justice systems. So yes,
(11:00):
it's a really tough intervention. It's an important one. It's
not exactly where we want it to be because we're
changing legislation to make sure they can stay longer. We
always said it had to be up to twelve months.
Currently the legislation only allows that's three months.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And reason it's pretty good. You got thirty seconds, Journy
go what we.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Put that program in place in South Booklin called I
hate it for Carl and then it was called circuit Breaker,
and that is the single biggest success in the youth
justice system. It's a full wrap around support that gives
the whole family the support, and that's what stops redopending.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Not both don't they don't. You got to wrap it up, God,
don't got to wrap it up. Take it off, Mark
Mitchell and Jenny Anderson Ding ding Ding.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
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