October 22, 2024 • 10 mins
Today on Politics Wednesday, Mike Hosking was joined by Labour’s Keiran McAnulty and National’s Mark Mitchell for a chat about some of the biggest political stories of the week so far.
They discussed the hot water Andrew Bayly has found himself in after making a Ministerial visit, Wellington’s woes and the appointment of a Crown Observer to the council, and McAnulty explained why he got a yellow card for the Parliamentary rugby team.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Politics Wednesday, Jinny's Away Securrean Mcanulty's with us on the program. Karen,
morning to you, Good morning, I am extremely well. Thank you.
Mark Mitchell with us as always, Mark, good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Morning, Mike morning Curan.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Very broad, very broad based question, Karen. I'll start with you,
seeing you're a bit of a guest on the program.
So when you deal with Andrew Bailey and Darlene Tanner
as we did yesterday and of course pulled the trigger
on the Wellington City Council, is our expectation of public
representation artificially high? And really these people are just, you know,
examples of people we know in regular life, and somehow
(00:33):
we expect people in public life to be better or
should we expect better?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I think on the whole you get a very high
standard from public servants in this country. But when people
slip off that, it's fair enough to ask questians. It
doesn't matter what you do for a job, going up
to someone and calling them a loser and doing the
l signs probably not appropriate.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I was asked to yesterday and I said, look, I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Never going to criticize someone for swearing, because I'd be
a hypocrite.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
But I wouldn't do that, so that's fair question asked.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
But what about Tana? How do you explain that?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I mean, look, they've gone through a process that I've
deemed that she wasn't honest, and I've dealt with it
in their view appropriately, anyone in any walker life, if
they are deemed to.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Have misled their employers, which is the claim.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
At stake here, then they need to be dealt with.
And so is it any different to any other job?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Probably not, Now that's what I'm saying. What do you recommend?
Should we expect more? Do we expect more or not?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No? I think you should. You should.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
The public should expect higher levels of behavior and standards
from people that they vote and to go and represent them,
whether it be at local government level, regional or central
government level down to here with Quran and I so no,
there should be a level of expectation around that. At
the end of the day, mpiece of human as well,
and make mistakes as lot's the way they deal with them.
(02:00):
Long as you deal with the proper, you apologize, you
make your commitment not to make the same mistake, and
move on.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Then most keys understand.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
That we'll take Mark and I, for example, we don't
agree on much, but we get on to each other.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, there you go, that's true what I carry on?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, I was going to think.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
I was just trying to think of Karen's ever given
the occasionally I missed the odd techle, doesn't it very
often in the rugby. I was just trying to think
whether he's ever called me a loser or any of that.
I don't think he has no.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And you were very kind to me that time I
got a yellow card down?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
What do you get the yellow card for?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
It was I was attempting an intercept and that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Was a deliberate knock on Q What was it actually
a deliberate knock on Kuren?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, it wasn't. I was trying, but it was two hands,
don't you.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
It was a It was a genuine attempt an intercept
and if you got.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It, he would have been the hero.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
But unfortunately got spilled and you got I said to
the referee, don't send him off of the yellow card,
just make him do before.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
And could he to make the paper out of the
game to the game.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Could you do ten press ups Karen? If I asked
you to do them?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yes, I could. I wouldn't be so confident about twelve,
But I could do ten.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
What about you, Mark? How many can you can you do?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Ten?
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I do thirty press ups every morning. Old stop, get
a bed and I do.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Thirty press ups.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I know I likes the show off. Come on now.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
Well, the reason I do that is because often it's
the only exercise I get during the day.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So are they good form? Are they good form? Press up?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah they are, They're excellent. I get my forehead right
down to the cabin I don't know if you remember.
Do you remember there's a challenge went out yes years
ago about doing twenty five.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I just carried it on challenge.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Oh well, good on you. Hey, while I've got you, Mark,
where are you at with the Police Commissioner's job?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So that's some process at the moment the PSC is
leading that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Have they given you names or numbers or paperwork?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:52):
So I can't talk about that because it is obviously
a process they run. But I can tell you that
I hope to have the new police commistry announced by
the end of November, so we'll know then.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So the end of November, and so you've got some
people in front of you. It's in train. So it's
we are standing by for an announcement.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, No, it's well and truly in train.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Absolutely, Okay, gang raid yesterday. You've got to be pleased
with that.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Yeah, very pleased, because I mean I've visted. I've been
over to a Podoky myself, very strong, we leaders group there,
met with the local community. Really, I was very clear
after last year when the Podeque was taken under siege
that it's a beautiful town that shouldn't be labeled a
gang town. And I'm very proud of the work the
police have done to go and then really, hamm of
the mungelmore, the.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
School lunches Kieren yesterday, would you be willing enough or
generous enough to concede that Seymour might have actually cracked
a nut here and at three Bucks? And what you
saw yesterday and what you probably could have tasted if
you turned up at the launch isn't actually bad.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
If you look at what was provided yesterday, then it
may well work. But time will tower and we've we've
got to be honest about this time, will tew. We
do have providers saying that they can't do it for
three dollars, and we do have schools concerned that it's
going to be pulled out. If he's able to deliver
nutritious lunches to everyone that was previously going to be
(05:10):
doing it, then good on them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
But we've got to wait and see how this goes.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
At the end of the day, the government, we're advised
in their own cabinet paper that the changes they were
proposing does rest of the achievement and attendance of kids
at school, and so that should be of concern. But
I'm not going to put the boot in before the
evidence is there very well.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
I think they were just approached in a way that
you know, he embraced the commercial expertise that was available
as he's using governments buying power and generated supply chain
efficiencies and you know, combined that sort of realized over
one hundred and thirty billion dollars and then your cost savings,
which is outstanding.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Kieren. I think it was you the other day I
saw quoted this business of Wellington and you were running
the line that it was a bit of a smoke
screen for the government, et cetera. Did what the government
do for Wellington yesterday make sense? Or what would it
have required from your point of view because before you
were to pull the trigger.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Well, it's one of the topics that I can speak
on with some authority, having been Minister of Local Government
previously and having many people asking me to consider intervention
and other councils. My point was really clear that the
government shouldn't be waiting in and shooting their mouth.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Off before they get the advice from DIA.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
That advice is critical to any decision, and we still
haven't seen it, so I can't give you an honest
answer until the Minister releases.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But he's got it, so he's got the does.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
But your question was if they've done the right thing, Well,
I need to see the advice to give you an
honest answer. But ultimately what we're talking about is pretty
much the lowest form of intervention, a Crown observer solely
for the process for the long term plan.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
It's not across all.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Council operations, and in the hierarchy of interventions, this is
about as low as you can get. The way the
government ministers were talking last week, everyone thought that a
commissioner was on the cards.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
The Minister wouldn't rule out.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Whether they would call a fresh election, so clearly the
advice didn't match what they were saying, but nevertheless it
had to have been enough to warrant an observer, otherwise
they couldn't do it.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I do want to see the advice before I can
comment beyond that.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Day not a bad point, mate.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Well, I just think that Simon definitely would have considered
all the advice that has become really obvious. And the
Government has been concerned about the Council's ability to manage
the long term Plan, amendment and adoption process.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I mean, you know, we saw what happened with.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
The airports years and the fact that now they're having
to rewrite the long term plan and so uh and
we do things think these three things through very carefully,
am I had the situation in Warrall with the last
weather event and making sure that we keep the recovery going,
So Simmy would have put a lot of thought into this.
We've got a Crown observer in there now and we're
(07:48):
going to start trying to get things.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Back on track.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We didn't any note, Mike, we didn't criticize that decision
and wide we thought that was appropriate.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So it's not a case.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Of opposing decisions just for the sake of it. We've
got to take it on a case by case basis.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Do you find yourself as a more moderate member of
the labor caucus there and Karen, I'm finding.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Well, I would consider that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I don't know what you guys think, but I'd consider
myself reasonly moderate.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Having said, we did an interview the other day and
I can't remember when there was a couple of days ago.
So one of these regional authorities or bodies or local
government people are looking into this problem that we have
of nobody turning up at local elections and we've got
one next year. Do you have any obvious answers as
to what can be done in this country? And this
ties into Wellington and they're ineptitude. What is it that
will get us engaged in local politics?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, it's a really good question, and it's actually one
I've been thinking about quite a lot. I mean, at
the end of the day, when you're in opposition one
you've got to respond to what the government's doing.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Note I didn't say oppose, but respond.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And the other one is actually working on some policies
and as local government spokesperson, this is something I think
about a lot.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
At the end of the day. Local government is really important.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's crucial when it touches every aspect of our daily life.
But we get such low turnout. Is it because what
people see in local government is.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Not reflective of their community?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Or is it because the structure of local government means
that not everyone is able to put their hand up?
Because if you think about it, especially where I live,
we've got some very small councils, and councilors get paid
a relatively small amount to do what is essentially a
full time job. You're asking workers and people with families
to give up paid employment to serve their communities. That
(09:28):
doesn't necessarily lend itself to always the right people coming forward.
So that's got to be something that's looked at.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Yeah, I look, I don't know where there's a bit
of fatigue around vote of the tea, around local government elections.
I think that you always see the dysfunction of the media,
you know, And I can say with my emergency management
head on which keran head on before me, is it
getting around the country. I see outstanding leaders, I see
outstanding years and councilors and councilors doing their job. So
(09:58):
but you know, it's always the sort of it's always
on the margins and stuff that's reported through the media.
I think that it does take people's view and it
does affect the motivation when it comes time to come
out and vote.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
A see, local government is often a convenient whipping boy.
We saw that earlier the year at Local Government conference.
But at the end of the day, every single person
that's involved in local government has committed to their communities
and doing their best.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
All right, well said, yeah, I appreciate it very much,
Kieren mcnaughy, Marke Mitchell for another Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Politics Wednesday, Jinny's Away Securrean Mcanulty's with us on the program. Karen,
morning to you, Good morning, I am extremely well. Thank you.
Mark Mitchell with us as always, Mark, good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Morning, Mike morning Curan.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Very broad, very broad based question, Karen. I'll start with you,
seeing you're a bit of a guest on the program.
So when you deal with Andrew Bailey and Darlene Tanner
as we did yesterday and of course pulled the trigger
on the Wellington City Council, is our expectation of public
representation artificially high? And really these people are just, you know,
examples of people we know in regular life, and somehow
(00:33):
we expect people in public life to be better or
should we expect better?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I think on the whole you get a very high
standard from public servants in this country. But when people
slip off that, it's fair enough to ask questians. It
doesn't matter what you do for a job, going up
to someone and calling them a loser and doing the
l signs probably not appropriate.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I was asked to yesterday and I said, look, I'm.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Never going to criticize someone for swearing, because I'd be
a hypocrite.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
But I wouldn't do that, so that's fair question asked.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
But what about Tana? How do you explain that?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:11):
I mean, look, they've gone through a process that I've
deemed that she wasn't honest, and I've dealt with it
in their view appropriately, anyone in any walker life, if
they are deemed to.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Have misled their employers, which is the claim.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
At stake here, then they need to be dealt with.
And so is it any different to any other job?
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Probably not, Now that's what I'm saying. What do you recommend?
Should we expect more? Do we expect more or not?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
No? I think you should. You should.
Speaker 5 (01:38):
The public should expect higher levels of behavior and standards
from people that they vote and to go and represent them,
whether it be at local government level, regional or central
government level down to here with Quran and I so no,
there should be a level of expectation around that. At
the end of the day, mpiece of human as well,
and make mistakes as lot's the way they deal with them.
(02:00):
Long as you deal with the proper, you apologize, you
make your commitment not to make the same mistake, and
move on.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Then most keys understand.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
That we'll take Mark and I, for example, we don't
agree on much, but we get on to each other.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Well, there you go, that's true what I carry on?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, I was going to think.
Speaker 5 (02:17):
I was just trying to think of Karen's ever given
the occasionally I missed the odd techle, doesn't it very
often in the rugby. I was just trying to think
whether he's ever called me a loser or any of that.
I don't think he has no.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
And you were very kind to me that time I
got a yellow card down?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
What do you get the yellow card for?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
It was I was attempting an intercept and that.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Was a deliberate knock on Q What was it actually
a deliberate knock on Kuren?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
No, it wasn't. I was trying, but it was two hands,
don't you.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
It was a It was a genuine attempt an intercept
and if you got.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
It, he would have been the hero.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
But unfortunately got spilled and you got I said to
the referee, don't send him off of the yellow card,
just make him do before.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
And could he to make the paper out of the
game to the game.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Could you do ten press ups Karen? If I asked
you to do them?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Yes, I could. I wouldn't be so confident about twelve,
But I could do ten.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
What about you, Mark? How many can you can you do?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Ten?
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I do thirty press ups every morning. Old stop, get
a bed and I do.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Thirty press ups.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
I know I likes the show off. Come on now.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
Well, the reason I do that is because often it's
the only exercise I get during the day.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
So are they good form? Are they good form? Press up?
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah they are, They're excellent. I get my forehead right
down to the cabin I don't know if you remember.
Do you remember there's a challenge went out yes years
ago about doing twenty five.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I just carried it on challenge.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Oh well, good on you. Hey, while I've got you, Mark,
where are you at with the Police Commissioner's job?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So that's some process at the moment the PSC is
leading that.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Have they given you names or numbers or paperwork?
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (03:52):
So I can't talk about that because it is obviously
a process they run. But I can tell you that
I hope to have the new police commistry announced by
the end of November, so we'll know then.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So the end of November, and so you've got some
people in front of you. It's in train. So it's
we are standing by for an announcement.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, No, it's well and truly in train.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Absolutely, Okay, gang raid yesterday. You've got to be pleased
with that.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Yeah, very pleased, because I mean I've visted. I've been
over to a Podoky myself, very strong, we leaders group there,
met with the local community. Really, I was very clear
after last year when the Podeque was taken under siege
that it's a beautiful town that shouldn't be labeled a
gang town. And I'm very proud of the work the
police have done to go and then really, hamm of
the mungelmore, the.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
School lunches Kieren yesterday, would you be willing enough or
generous enough to concede that Seymour might have actually cracked
a nut here and at three Bucks? And what you
saw yesterday and what you probably could have tasted if
you turned up at the launch isn't actually bad.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
If you look at what was provided yesterday, then it
may well work. But time will tower and we've we've
got to be honest about this time, will tew. We
do have providers saying that they can't do it for
three dollars, and we do have schools concerned that it's
going to be pulled out. If he's able to deliver
nutritious lunches to everyone that was previously going to be
(05:10):
doing it, then good on them.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
But we've got to wait and see how this goes.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
At the end of the day, the government, we're advised
in their own cabinet paper that the changes they were
proposing does rest of the achievement and attendance of kids
at school, and so that should be of concern. But
I'm not going to put the boot in before the
evidence is there very well.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
So.
Speaker 5 (05:30):
I think they were just approached in a way that
you know, he embraced the commercial expertise that was available
as he's using governments buying power and generated supply chain
efficiencies and you know, combined that sort of realized over
one hundred and thirty billion dollars and then your cost savings,
which is outstanding.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Kieren. I think it was you the other day I
saw quoted this business of Wellington and you were running
the line that it was a bit of a smoke
screen for the government, et cetera. Did what the government
do for Wellington yesterday make sense? Or what would it
have required from your point of view because before you
were to pull the trigger.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Well, it's one of the topics that I can speak
on with some authority, having been Minister of Local Government
previously and having many people asking me to consider intervention
and other councils. My point was really clear that the
government shouldn't be waiting in and shooting their mouth.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Off before they get the advice from DIA.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
That advice is critical to any decision, and we still
haven't seen it, so I can't give you an honest
answer until the Minister releases.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But he's got it, so he's got the does.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
But your question was if they've done the right thing, Well,
I need to see the advice to give you an
honest answer. But ultimately what we're talking about is pretty
much the lowest form of intervention, a Crown observer solely
for the process for the long term plan.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
It's not across all.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Council operations, and in the hierarchy of interventions, this is
about as low as you can get. The way the
government ministers were talking last week, everyone thought that a
commissioner was on the cards.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
The Minister wouldn't rule out.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Whether they would call a fresh election, so clearly the
advice didn't match what they were saying, but nevertheless it
had to have been enough to warrant an observer, otherwise
they couldn't do it.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I do want to see the advice before I can
comment beyond that.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Day not a bad point, mate.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
Well, I just think that Simon definitely would have considered
all the advice that has become really obvious. And the
Government has been concerned about the Council's ability to manage
the long term Plan, amendment and adoption process.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I mean, you know, we saw what happened with.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
The airports years and the fact that now they're having
to rewrite the long term plan and so uh and
we do things think these three things through very carefully,
am I had the situation in Warrall with the last
weather event and making sure that we keep the recovery going,
So Simmy would have put a lot of thought into this.
We've got a Crown observer in there now and we're
(07:48):
going to start trying to get things.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Back on track.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
We didn't any note, Mike, we didn't criticize that decision
and wide we thought that was appropriate.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So it's not a case.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Of opposing decisions just for the sake of it. We've
got to take it on a case by case basis.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Do you find yourself as a more moderate member of
the labor caucus there and Karen, I'm finding.
Speaker 4 (08:06):
Well, I would consider that.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I don't know what you guys think, but I'd consider
myself reasonly moderate.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Having said, we did an interview the other day and
I can't remember when there was a couple of days ago.
So one of these regional authorities or bodies or local
government people are looking into this problem that we have
of nobody turning up at local elections and we've got
one next year. Do you have any obvious answers as
to what can be done in this country? And this
ties into Wellington and they're ineptitude. What is it that
will get us engaged in local politics?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, it's a really good question, and it's actually one
I've been thinking about quite a lot. I mean, at
the end of the day, when you're in opposition one
you've got to respond to what the government's doing.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Note I didn't say oppose, but respond.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
And the other one is actually working on some policies
and as local government spokesperson, this is something I think
about a lot.
Speaker 4 (08:52):
At the end of the day. Local government is really important.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
It's crucial when it touches every aspect of our daily life.
But we get such low turnout. Is it because what
people see in local government is.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Not reflective of their community?
Speaker 3 (09:07):
Or is it because the structure of local government means
that not everyone is able to put their hand up?
Because if you think about it, especially where I live,
we've got some very small councils, and councilors get paid
a relatively small amount to do what is essentially a
full time job. You're asking workers and people with families
to give up paid employment to serve their communities. That
(09:28):
doesn't necessarily lend itself to always the right people coming forward.
So that's got to be something that's looked at.
Speaker 5 (09:34):
Yeah, I look, I don't know where there's a bit
of fatigue around vote of the tea, around local government elections.
I think that you always see the dysfunction of the media,
you know, And I can say with my emergency management
head on which keran head on before me, is it
getting around the country. I see outstanding leaders, I see
outstanding years and councilors and councilors doing their job. So
(09:58):
but you know, it's always the sort of it's always
on the margins and stuff that's reported through the media.
I think that it does take people's view and it
does affect the motivation when it comes time to come
out and vote.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
A see, local government is often a convenient whipping boy.
We saw that earlier the year at Local Government conference.
But at the end of the day, every single person
that's involved in local government has committed to their communities
and doing their best.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
All right, well said, yeah, I appreciate it very much,
Kieren mcnaughy, Marke Mitchell for another Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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