Labour is ruling out supporting foreign investment in what it calls "critical infrastructure", including hospitals, schools, and prisons.
Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds has told Ryan Bridge there is a place for some public private partnerships but won't say which ones Labour will support.
Labour’s Ginny Andersen told Mike Hosking that there some fundamental areas that they believe aren’t helped by making a profit out of them.
However, she says, they’ve made it clear that if National goes into a deal for a PPP, they won’t wind it back.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Time now for politics. Wednesday, Mark Mitchell's with us from
India and Ginny Anderson's with us from the Hut.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning, Good morning money mate.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Am I correct in saying, Mark, you are there in
your role Indigenous Communities Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Of Ethnic Communities and also sport and Rex So. Sport's
been a big part of the discussions over here. We
signed a memorandum of cooperation and Prime Minister Modiu himself,
we had lunch with him yesterday and a big chunk
of our conversation was around sport.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Have you won on one with them?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, yeah, we had. I had lunch. I was very lucky.
I came out in twenty sixteen with Sir John Key
and had lunch and said at the same table as him,
and the same thing happened this time around with Chris
so No. I had some really good time with him.
And like I said, he's very interested in sport. He's
trying to roll out sport and get a big focus
on sport in India and he sees that there's a
(01:01):
lot that we can do that they want to do
with New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Was he getting some tips from the Black Caps? I
would have thought they already had that cricket.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Pretty good at cricket. They're pretty good at cricket, but
he wants to broaden that base and get and funnily enough,
they had the captain of the Indian rugby team there,
and rugby something that they really want to focus on.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Interesting. He has a they say an X factor of charisma.
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, without a doubt, Absolutely, without a doubt, And that
has grown the first time that I met him back
in twenty sixteen, he is a relatively new leader. He's
been doing the job for a while and I noticed
a big difference, you know, But without a doubt, he's
got a real presence about him.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right now, Jenny, As far as you're concern, I
can come off a bunch of stuff. Barbara Edmonds who
spoke to the investment conference last week, and there was
very good piece. If you read the piece in the
Where was It? Newsroom? If you read the piece labor
and PPPs, your stance on PPPs seems to have come
and gone change, twisted up and down, black and right,
right and wrong. Do you have a definitive position on
(02:02):
PPPs or not?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
We do, Yeah. We don't like them for things like schools,
and prisons and also hospital so areas where these public
services provided not a big thing. But we have been
pretty clear about the fact that if National goes into
a deal and does one, we won't wind it back
as it happened over the last year or so, because
(02:27):
what we saw was a whole lot of construction workers
leaving New Zealand thirteen thousand and that's not good for economy,
not good for jobs in wages. So we won't do that.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, So, but part of it also says if there
is a benefit to New Zealand, what if they can
say I don't know a school and they can show
a benefit to New Zealand. Does that negate the nose
schools thing or does it or not?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
No, we don't think. We think there are some basic
things like schools, prisons, hospitals where we don't agree with PPPs.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, well, what.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
If you had an e we come forward and so
that they wanted to to do a PPP with the
government on a school.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Look, there are there. We think there are some fundamental areas.
We don't like charter schools. We have charter schools already
if people do that, but in our view that there
are some basic public services, we're making a profit out
of them, doesn't help them. School lunchers would be a
great example where you had something that was being provided
by locally, you've got a big provider coming in making
(03:25):
a profit from it, and a lot of those times
they fall over when you're providing a public good.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I'm glad you raised the charter schools because in the
Hip Can speech the other day he said, we're not
going to be a government that just goes in and
cancels everything like this current government has. And yet he
was the bloke who for ideological reasons, only went and
canceled the charter schools last time. So as he changed
his mind on that stuff or clearly not.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I think we've new Zealanders are tired of flicking back
from one thing to the other. Yes, every three years.
Yes we have some fundamental ideological problems, but it's also
important that we keep making agree to as a country.
And we're just going to be helped back if we
keep flicking back and forward. So if there's a big
project that's in play that is working okay, and there's
(04:08):
some good things there, we're not going to undo it
just for the sake of saying, so.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You could say this morning, so the charter school's up
and operating now, so they will be up and operating
for at least two years by the time if you
got to government, for example, in twenty twenty six, so
you would leave those alone.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I'm not going to make education policy on newsbooks.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You'd be.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
But my understanding is the way we want to proceed.
If there's a big thing in place and it's working, okay,
we're not going to unearth it.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And this is the exact problem that we've got with
you at the moment, because we've tried to send out
really clear messages.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Tom, don't even start you. Look what you've done in
terms of the infrastructure projects.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
That you are. Let me finish, finish, let me let
me finish. Ginny, you can't even be unequivocal about whether
or not charter schools are going to Stone. You're just
giving us a big litera that we can't keep dropping
back and forward. No, you didn't. You just said that
you're not going to get into education policy. We'll get
into it. You just said that you're not going to
flip flop. And now you're saying, well, actually, you can't
say whether you will keep charter schools and this is
(05:07):
the problem, not the problem if we had they're all over.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The Red stood up pretty clearly and stated that if
there's big projects that have gone ahead, and that's why
we sent labor MPs into your into the big infrastructure
talk with investment firms, that if New Zealand needs some
big investment, and we've sent people there to give a
strong message out to those international partners that we support
of if they give us jobs, if they give us wages,
(05:33):
and they're good for New Zealanders, but we need to
keep an eye on the fact that if big companies
are just going to come into New Zealand carve off
luge bits of infrastructure own themselves and charge keywis for
using them forever in a day, we need to be
cautious of those details and how they play.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Mark you'll know the answer to this. This is on
social media. You know Ben Thomas, the guy who used
to work for the National Parties was outs right, So
he's on the X and it says incredible, incredible effort,
reports Bush. This is Bishop Christopher was handing out medals
at the week Box Kids Triathlon Sunday morning, and a
(06:10):
New Zealand month T shirt, Music month T shirt and jeans.
He may not have even been home between Home Grind
and Meo New He sets is Chris Bishop, the sort
of person who would stay out all night having watched
a bit of music to hand out medals the next morning.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
He loves he loves Seahard. I know that, and absolutely
he had turned up the next day for the week
Books Kids Trithel. It's such a great event. So and
he's put a lot of work into this International Investment
Summit as well. I just want to say one thing
really quickly, like we should be really proud of our
Prime minister. He has done us proud up here. We
(06:48):
still had a couple more days to go, but we
are back at the table for an FTA with India,
which is huge for US as a country with there's
lots of global headwinds. You know, our Prime minister's getting
on with solutions and getting things done, whereas the other
side labor are just confused about what they want to do.
And we're not even.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Come on, Mark, we got not even UK big deal.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Not even we're not even paying much attention.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Don't make that moment.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
We're just we're just getting on and getting things done,
all right.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I would like to respond to that if I could. Yes,
you care free trade deal with the EU and the UK.
They were fundamental and we all see you.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
To be fair Joenny as crap. But but the UK
one is a winner. There's no that's gold stand there's
no question.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And I don't have to say on top of that.
China took a long time, but the deal.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
With Yes, your labor for our forever got got in
bid with the Chinese. That is true. By the way,
do you need to be a she had fan to
be successful and you're part of the world, Jinny as
a local MP is that part of the UH does help.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But there are many other excellent bands as well as
she had, which I would vouch for.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Mark, can you stop muting yourself? I mean, for goodness sake,
it's every week he's on he's on his cheek, his
cheek on his phone. He goes hello, Hello, He's sitting
there as an Indian Hotels. Hello, Oh, muted myself, Jenny.
While we're waiting for him to unmute himself. In a
boomest and a boomert type moment, it's white to tea
and this.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Sorry, Sorry, it's mad.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I didn't even get to talk about that Indian free
trade agreement.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
He cut me.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
On anyway back home, But Jenny, back home, White to
Tea giving Seymour a good effing hiding, is it? Do
they get a free pass? If you'd said that, would
you be in more trouble than White? T appears to
be well.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I think they've got a fear bit of coverage style.
I don't know if they did get into trouble from
what I saw, Well.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
They don't. That's my point. It seems that if you're
in the Maori Party, you can do anything, say anything,
and nothing comes out of it. He's useless, isn't he
absolutely hopeless?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Definitely, the keeps dropping out, So what if? I most
probably not speaking to be honest? Thanks, Mark, just all
just be honest. It's always vigorous.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
No, we're talking about David Seymour and and the Multi
party and the the LAWNSI.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I mean so that often I told you what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You're on hold, Mark, Sorry, carry on, Jenny, I'm not disappearing.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Look, I would never have seen that, and I don't
think it's It's a great idea at all. But I
think they've got a few bit of coverage and people
genuinely thought that that was unacceptable. So I don't know
if he got away with it. I think what Dave
David Seymour pretty much waded straight in there. But it
gets to the point when it's those two I think
most people kind of just switch off because it's those
two editor gains.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
What do you say just quickly before well, no one
wants no one lots bullies do the Jenny so and
this bullying behavior without a doubt. And I think that
in this country at the moment we're in our country,
we've got too much violent crime to deal with and
people should learn to keep their hands themselves. And to
have a member of Parliament coming out and saying they
(10:13):
want to give someone a hiding, to me and my view,
it's just totally unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Is part of it mark that we don't take them seriously?
It's just it's them again? Is there a bit of
that about it?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think, well that's a big part of it. I
can tell you now that if a national MP came
out and said something, you would be all over it.
They'll be calling for resignations. But for some reason, because
it's the married party, they yet given a free ticket
super quick.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Jinny given Chris was on the radio with our Wellington
people saying you couldn't find a Wellington candidate for the mayor.
Should parties in general this is the act story. Should
parties in general be involved in local body politics?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Oh that's a tough one at pros and cons. There
are some good reasons at it because it actually helps
me more organized on the ground, and I've seen that
in the hearts. We've done quite well having good, strong
candidates out here. But it needs to fat. They need
to that you know that they want to be part
of that party and the party needs to want them.
So if that's all working well, it can go really well.
(11:09):
I don't think it's essential that you can do it
without it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So all right, Mark, you off to bed.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, yeah, I'm up in a bit. Four us. We've
got to very early start to get to get up
to Bumboy today.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Good on you go. Well, we'll catch up next week.
Appreciate it. Mark Mitchell, Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It'd be from six am weekdays or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio,
Time now for politics. Wednesday, Mark Mitchell's with us from
India and Ginny Anderson's with us from the Hut.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Good morning, Good morning money mate.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Am I correct in saying, Mark, you are there in
your role Indigenous Communities Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Of Ethnic Communities and also sport and Rex So. Sport's
been a big part of the discussions over here. We
signed a memorandum of cooperation and Prime Minister Modiu himself,
we had lunch with him yesterday and a big chunk
of our conversation was around sport.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Have you won on one with them?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yes, yeah, we had. I had lunch. I was very lucky.
I came out in twenty sixteen with Sir John Key
and had lunch and said at the same table as him,
and the same thing happened this time around with Chris
so No. I had some really good time with him.
And like I said, he's very interested in sport. He's
trying to roll out sport and get a big focus
on sport in India and he sees that there's a
(01:01):
lot that we can do that they want to do
with New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Was he getting some tips from the Black Caps? I
would have thought they already had that cricket.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Pretty good at cricket. They're pretty good at cricket, but
he wants to broaden that base and get and funnily enough,
they had the captain of the Indian rugby team there,
and rugby something that they really want to focus on.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Interesting. He has a they say an X factor of charisma.
Is that true?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah, without a doubt, Absolutely, without a doubt, And that
has grown the first time that I met him back
in twenty sixteen, he is a relatively new leader. He's
been doing the job for a while and I noticed
a big difference, you know, But without a doubt, he's
got a real presence about him.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
All right now, Jenny, As far as you're concern, I
can come off a bunch of stuff. Barbara Edmonds who
spoke to the investment conference last week, and there was
very good piece. If you read the piece in the
Where was It? Newsroom? If you read the piece labor
and PPPs, your stance on PPPs seems to have come
and gone change, twisted up and down, black and right,
right and wrong. Do you have a definitive position on
(02:02):
PPPs or not?
Speaker 3 (02:04):
We do, Yeah. We don't like them for things like schools,
and prisons and also hospital so areas where these public
services provided not a big thing. But we have been
pretty clear about the fact that if National goes into
a deal and does one, we won't wind it back
as it happened over the last year or so, because
(02:27):
what we saw was a whole lot of construction workers
leaving New Zealand thirteen thousand and that's not good for economy,
not good for jobs in wages. So we won't do that.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Okay, So, but part of it also says if there
is a benefit to New Zealand, what if they can
say I don't know a school and they can show
a benefit to New Zealand. Does that negate the nose
schools thing or does it or not?
Speaker 3 (02:50):
No, we don't think. We think there are some basic
things like schools, prisons, hospitals where we don't agree with PPPs.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay, well, what.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
If you had an e we come forward and so
that they wanted to to do a PPP with the
government on a school.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Look, there are there. We think there are some fundamental areas.
We don't like charter schools. We have charter schools already
if people do that, but in our view that there
are some basic public services, we're making a profit out
of them, doesn't help them. School lunchers would be a
great example where you had something that was being provided
by locally, you've got a big provider coming in making
(03:25):
a profit from it, and a lot of those times
they fall over when you're providing a public good.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I'm glad you raised the charter schools because in the
Hip Can speech the other day he said, we're not
going to be a government that just goes in and
cancels everything like this current government has. And yet he
was the bloke who for ideological reasons, only went and
canceled the charter schools last time. So as he changed
his mind on that stuff or clearly not.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I think we've new Zealanders are tired of flicking back
from one thing to the other. Yes, every three years.
Yes we have some fundamental ideological problems, but it's also
important that we keep making agree to as a country.
And we're just going to be helped back if we
keep flicking back and forward. So if there's a big
project that's in play that is working okay, and there's
(04:08):
some good things there, we're not going to undo it
just for the sake of saying, so.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
You could say this morning, so the charter school's up
and operating now, so they will be up and operating
for at least two years by the time if you
got to government, for example, in twenty twenty six, so
you would leave those alone.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I'm not going to make education policy on newsbooks.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
You'd be.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
But my understanding is the way we want to proceed.
If there's a big thing in place and it's working, okay,
we're not going to unearth it.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
And this is the exact problem that we've got with
you at the moment, because we've tried to send out
really clear messages.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Tom, don't even start you. Look what you've done in
terms of the infrastructure projects.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
That you are. Let me finish, finish, let me let
me finish. Ginny, you can't even be unequivocal about whether
or not charter schools are going to Stone. You're just
giving us a big litera that we can't keep dropping
back and forward. No, you didn't. You just said that
you're not going to get into education policy. We'll get
into it. You just said that you're not going to
flip flop. And now you're saying, well, actually, you can't
say whether you will keep charter schools and this is
(05:07):
the problem, not the problem if we had they're all over.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The Red stood up pretty clearly and stated that if
there's big projects that have gone ahead, and that's why
we sent labor MPs into your into the big infrastructure
talk with investment firms, that if New Zealand needs some
big investment, and we've sent people there to give a
strong message out to those international partners that we support
of if they give us jobs, if they give us wages,
(05:33):
and they're good for New Zealanders, but we need to
keep an eye on the fact that if big companies
are just going to come into New Zealand carve off
luge bits of infrastructure own themselves and charge keywis for
using them forever in a day, we need to be
cautious of those details and how they play.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Mark you'll know the answer to this. This is on
social media. You know Ben Thomas, the guy who used
to work for the National Parties was outs right, So
he's on the X and it says incredible, incredible effort,
reports Bush. This is Bishop Christopher was handing out medals
at the week Box Kids Triathlon Sunday morning, and a
(06:10):
New Zealand month T shirt, Music month T shirt and jeans.
He may not have even been home between Home Grind
and Meo New He sets is Chris Bishop, the sort
of person who would stay out all night having watched
a bit of music to hand out medals the next morning.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
He loves he loves Seahard. I know that, and absolutely
he had turned up the next day for the week
Books Kids Trithel. It's such a great event. So and
he's put a lot of work into this International Investment
Summit as well. I just want to say one thing
really quickly, like we should be really proud of our
Prime minister. He has done us proud up here. We
(06:48):
still had a couple more days to go, but we
are back at the table for an FTA with India,
which is huge for US as a country with there's
lots of global headwinds. You know, our Prime minister's getting
on with solutions and getting things done, whereas the other
side labor are just confused about what they want to do.
And we're not even.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Come on, Mark, we got not even UK big deal.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Not even we're not even paying much attention.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Don't make that moment.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
We're just we're just getting on and getting things done,
all right.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I would like to respond to that if I could. Yes,
you care free trade deal with the EU and the UK.
They were fundamental and we all see you.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
To be fair Joenny as crap. But but the UK
one is a winner. There's no that's gold stand there's
no question.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And I don't have to say on top of that.
China took a long time, but the deal.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
With Yes, your labor for our forever got got in
bid with the Chinese. That is true. By the way,
do you need to be a she had fan to
be successful and you're part of the world, Jinny as
a local MP is that part of the UH does help.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
But there are many other excellent bands as well as
she had, which I would vouch for.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Mark, can you stop muting yourself? I mean, for goodness sake,
it's every week he's on he's on his cheek, his
cheek on his phone. He goes hello, Hello, He's sitting
there as an Indian Hotels. Hello, Oh, muted myself, Jenny.
While we're waiting for him to unmute himself. In a
boomest and a boomert type moment, it's white to tea
and this.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Sorry, Sorry, it's mad.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
It's embarrassing.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
I didn't even get to talk about that Indian free
trade agreement.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
He cut me.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
On anyway back home, But Jenny, back home, White to
Tea giving Seymour a good effing hiding, is it? Do
they get a free pass? If you'd said that, would
you be in more trouble than White? T appears to
be well.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I think they've got a fear bit of coverage style.
I don't know if they did get into trouble from
what I saw, Well.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
They don't. That's my point. It seems that if you're
in the Maori Party, you can do anything, say anything,
and nothing comes out of it. He's useless, isn't he
absolutely hopeless?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Definitely, the keeps dropping out, So what if? I most
probably not speaking to be honest? Thanks, Mark, just all
just be honest. It's always vigorous.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
No, we're talking about David Seymour and and the Multi
party and the the LAWNSI.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I mean so that often I told you what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
You're on hold, Mark, Sorry, carry on, Jenny, I'm not disappearing.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Look, I would never have seen that, and I don't
think it's It's a great idea at all. But I
think they've got a few bit of coverage and people
genuinely thought that that was unacceptable. So I don't know
if he got away with it. I think what Dave
David Seymour pretty much waded straight in there. But it
gets to the point when it's those two I think
most people kind of just switch off because it's those
two editor gains.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
What do you say just quickly before well, no one
wants no one lots bullies do the Jenny so and
this bullying behavior without a doubt. And I think that
in this country at the moment we're in our country,
we've got too much violent crime to deal with and
people should learn to keep their hands themselves. And to
have a member of Parliament coming out and saying they
(10:13):
want to give someone a hiding, to me and my view,
it's just totally unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Is part of it mark that we don't take them seriously?
It's just it's them again? Is there a bit of
that about it?
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Well?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think, well that's a big part of it. I
can tell you now that if a national MP came
out and said something, you would be all over it.
They'll be calling for resignations. But for some reason, because
it's the married party, they yet given a free ticket
super quick.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Jinny given Chris was on the radio with our Wellington
people saying you couldn't find a Wellington candidate for the mayor.
Should parties in general this is the act story. Should
parties in general be involved in local body politics?
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Oh that's a tough one at pros and cons. There
are some good reasons at it because it actually helps
me more organized on the ground, and I've seen that
in the hearts. We've done quite well having good, strong
candidates out here. But it needs to fat. They need
to that you know that they want to be part
of that party and the party needs to want them.
So if that's all working well, it can go really well.
(11:09):
I don't think it's essential that you can do it
without it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
So all right, Mark, you off to bed.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yes, yeah, I'm up in a bit. Four us. We've
got to very early start to get to get up
to Bumboy today.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Good on you go. Well, we'll catch up next week.
Appreciate it. Mark Mitchell, Ginny Anderson.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It'd be from six am weekdays or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio,
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