April 29, 2025 • 9 mins
There will be further cuts to Government agency spending, to be diverted into priority areas.
Finance Minister Nicola Willis confirmed a $1.3 billion operating allowance – plummeting from the $2.4 billion estimate.
Willis says they've reviewed funding line-by-line.
National’s Mark Mitchell told Mike Hosking they have to cut spending as the reality is the country went from $58 billion of debt in 2017 to $175 billion in 2024.
He says we went from paying $3.6 billion in interest a year to $8.9 billion, and we cannot afford that.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jenny Anderson's with us along with Mark Mature. Good morning
to you both.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Good morning morning, Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Now, Mark, if you read the Audrey's Annual review of.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I just got a Missus said, Mike's probably going to
ask you about Audrey's in your review.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Has kept it?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah? Is that from late directly from lucxn's offices.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That was one of my.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well she's got Now. I got a text and I'll
declare it. I got a text from my wife who
goes it should have been a nine, and I texted
her back and said, I agree because my I don't mind.
I don't mind on this very neutral radio program espousing
my love for you because I love you and I
think you're doing a great job.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
What would you, Jenny, Jenny, in the in the spirit
of the morning, what would you Mark?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Him?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Oh, where do I start?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well with a number, that's what I just asked. Well,
we have you Mark out of ten.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
I think that organized crime being out of control means
you can't have a night. I think you can't do
that because organized The Ministerial Advisory Group have said that
they've lost the fight on organized crimes.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So one off, one off for the loss of organized crime.
So you're down to it.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
I think at least at least two point five. So
I would say, given the fact that he's no sex,
I think the point five is we can go into
some other things on the point five.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
There's been the most of your cabin, the bomb, the.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Bomb, the bomb tasting, the young person who still brings
them down point five.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So here's okay. So we Jenny hard.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Hard Sex hard six.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I've got say, Jenny, if you read have you read
Audrey's piece?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I read it. Yeah, I thought it was very generous.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I have to say, well, you would say that, and
I get why you would say that, But but she's
a seasoned pro and when you compare her marking of
this lot to her marking of your lot, she see
something there that I suspect you guys should be a
bit worried about, doesn't she.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Well, I felt that there were markings of some of
those ministers that were ignoring some pretty blindingly obvious failures.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Audrey's I tell you what, Audrey is our most experienced
press gallery journalist. She is tough, she's hard, and you
can't get much past. For that reason, I'll take Genny
six because that was probably the highest previous.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
I think it was a bit more than that. The
Margaret not very generous. Yeah, I was pretty kind with
my sex.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I felt you, Mark will not give anything away. But
are you happy? Do you know what you're getting in
the budget?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I do, But like you said, I just can't.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
No, no, no, I'm not going to ask you to
so so you know what you're getting. Has Nicola found
the billions in savings that she claims she has.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well, I mean I can talk about the savings that
she's had to make immediately, and that was quite simply.
Obviously we've gone we've had to reduce the operator allowance
from two point four billion to one point three billion,
and of course primarily due to the lower forecasted growth,
and that's the result of we've had a change of
administration in the States, with the tariffs sort of happening
(03:18):
around around the world, we've.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Projected lower tax revenue.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
However, the reality of it is we have to do
that because in twenty fourteen, we went from fifty eight billion,
sorry from twenty seventeen, we went from fifty eight billion
dollars in debt for US as a country to one
hundred and seventy five billion through to twenty twenty four,
and we're paying. We went from a three point six
billion dollar a year interest bill to an eight point
(03:46):
nine billion dollar a year. We cannot afford that. That's
more than the annual core well, it's more than the
annual core grant expenses for police corrections, Ministry of Justice
and Customs.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We just can't afford it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
What are you going to do, Jenny? Because on on
budget and I saw chippies trying to warm himself up
for this task. You can't, honestly, on budget day go,
we would have spent more here, more there, more there,
and more over there and borrowed yet more. Or will
you do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I still want to know? Is that so the one
point three we've she's left, that's still got to have
the cancer drugs taken out of it?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Isn't that creak? So does that leave likeer point three
billions the entire budget? I think that's correct.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
If you're correct. The cancer was six, the cancer was
six hundred, So it leaves you with one point three
minus six, which is seven, right, not point?
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So that my question. I read one article this morning
that said it was down to point there's problem and stuff.
What would have been promised.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
My question is what's left for the keeping the lights on?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I mean they needed about one point.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
For It's why I'm asking Jenny. I think it's the savings.
If she's found, if she's found billions in savings and
we can you know, go, I get it as opposed.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
To the problem. We've got the same problem.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
So the savings last time, just in the Wellington economy
are locally so they cut jobs, there's a lower tax take,
they've got less money. They make more cuts, they lose jobs,
there's a lower tax take, there's less money, and we
keep going in a downward spiral. Is what's going to
be the thing that stops this downward spiral?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Mark your answer to that? I mean it's true about Wellington.
But if you haven't got the money, you haven't got
the money, have you?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Oh, it's just going to say.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
The reason our debt is so high is because Labour
had no appetite to control spending when they're in government,
and that's why we now have an increase of one
hundred and seventy five to one hundred and seventy five
billion dollars in debt we have to start returning ourselves
to service, which means that we are to surplus, which
means that we have to be responsible. And this government
is measured careful and purposeful in the way that we're
(05:44):
doing that, Whereas if you look at the other side,
when Trump came out with a tariffs, they panicked and said, oh,
we're going to start borrowing that. That's their default setting
is borrowing more money and splash it around. We cannot
afford as a country. We're a small country in the
bottom of the world. We do extremely well. We've got
a great future ahead of us, but we've got to
be responsible.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Our research department, Jenny got on to your zero point
three Was it the ASP's reconfiguration of the economy suggesting
the government cutting to one point three would take zero
point three percent off the economy.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
I was reading The car Cup by Bernard Hackey, and
he deducted what they'd promised so far to look at
what the overarching amount was that they had to work with.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And is Bernard Hickey worth reading. I haven't read him
for a long time.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Yes, I think he's good. He is a good summary.
He is a bit left leading. He lives on one
heck Island.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I just watched them last time out. I watched him
at the Reserve Bank press conference and he asked these
really wonky questions and I thought, Bernard, you're a bit wonky.
But then again, I suppose that's what you do at
the Reserve Bank press conferences, don't you.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
But to get back to your point before, there's no
plan from this government on how we get growth, saying
growth again and again isn't a plan, so we won't
need some wealth generation in our country.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
In order to be able to afford the services that
have been cut left, right and center.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
The different the gap is that they would argue the
economy will provide the growth, as opposed to the government
providing the growth, and that is the contest of ideas,
isn't it the leader, But.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
We're not seeing that, and we're not seeing any plan
or any proposal on how to get key industries on
New Zealand growing. So talking about it's a good example
is the video game development rebate forty million invested. There
is a of the rebate and that industry will go
to approximately seven hundred and fifty million for our economy
(07:31):
this year. And that's from about four or five hundred million.
So that's an example where government support in an area
has paid off well in advance of what was put in.
We need more examples of that to grow economy, not
just Nicola talking about going for growth. There's got to
be more to it than a slogan, and right now
they don't have that.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, let's just look at what she's done. She's in
the well.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Is closing today?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, hang on a second.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
We've got interest rates are coming down, inflation is now
down within the target range. We're delivering free trade agreements
around the world, new markets, We're making sure there's a
government we get the settings right to allow a private
sector to grow and flourish and have confidence to continue
to invest. And we inherited a very difficult set of books.
(08:20):
We inherited a few headwinds, but we're optimistic, we've focused,
and we're working hard to make sure.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
We do the question. Quick question for you, Mark. Have
you had a word to James mega At about his
brain explosion suggesting somehow the government was going to help
fund regional affairs up and down the country and what
he was thinking of when he said that.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, No, I haven't, but it's normal at South Island.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
I've noticed behind the camera like a vigorous no.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Important when the lead with Ginny as you would well know,
when the leaders doing a press conference to not and
here's a tip for you, Mark, by the way, get
on to them. And despite the fact that Audrey gave
him nine, Chris Biship looked as bored as the old
proverbial when he was standing behind Erica the other day
making her announcement, he looked like he wanted to kill himself.
He's got a smile, he's got to stand up straight
and he's got a nod.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I'll provide that feedback. Look, Jamie's doing the outstanding job.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
He's been a great gym and of the Justice Selik
Committee deeply pestiate.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
About the self the Treaty Prince outstanding.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
He's doing a great job.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, if he comes up with something specific on how
to get to Parmeston to Omaru directly at a really
cheap price, do let us know it's good that.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I think that's good, that it's good that he's out
there hustling in trying.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
To look for solutions for the regions. That's that's good news.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
All right, Nice to see you, guys, Mark Mitchell, Junior Everson.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Jenny Anderson's with us along with Mark Mature. Good morning
to you both.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Good morning morning, Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Now, Mark, if you read the Audrey's Annual review of.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
I just got a Missus said, Mike's probably going to
ask you about Audrey's in your review.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Has kept it?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah? Is that from late directly from lucxn's offices.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
That was one of my.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well she's got Now. I got a text and I'll
declare it. I got a text from my wife who
goes it should have been a nine, and I texted
her back and said, I agree because my I don't mind.
I don't mind on this very neutral radio program espousing
my love for you because I love you and I
think you're doing a great job.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
What would you, Jenny, Jenny, in the in the spirit
of the morning, what would you Mark?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Him?
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Oh, where do I start?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well with a number, that's what I just asked. Well,
we have you Mark out of ten.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
I think that organized crime being out of control means
you can't have a night. I think you can't do
that because organized The Ministerial Advisory Group have said that
they've lost the fight on organized crimes.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So one off, one off for the loss of organized crime.
So you're down to it.
Speaker 5 (01:17):
I think at least at least two point five. So
I would say, given the fact that he's no sex,
I think the point five is we can go into
some other things on the point five.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
There's been the most of your cabin, the bomb, the.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
Bomb, the bomb tasting, the young person who still brings
them down point five.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So here's okay. So we Jenny hard.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Hard Sex hard six.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I've got say, Jenny, if you read have you read
Audrey's piece?
Speaker 4 (01:46):
I read it. Yeah, I thought it was very generous.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I have to say, well, you would say that, and
I get why you would say that, But but she's
a seasoned pro and when you compare her marking of
this lot to her marking of your lot, she see
something there that I suspect you guys should be a
bit worried about, doesn't she.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Well, I felt that there were markings of some of
those ministers that were ignoring some pretty blindingly obvious failures.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Audrey's I tell you what, Audrey is our most experienced
press gallery journalist. She is tough, she's hard, and you
can't get much past. For that reason, I'll take Genny
six because that was probably the highest previous.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
I think it was a bit more than that. The
Margaret not very generous. Yeah, I was pretty kind with
my sex.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I felt you, Mark will not give anything away. But
are you happy? Do you know what you're getting in
the budget?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I do, But like you said, I just can't.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
No, no, no, I'm not going to ask you to
so so you know what you're getting. Has Nicola found
the billions in savings that she claims she has.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Well, I mean I can talk about the savings that
she's had to make immediately, and that was quite simply.
Obviously we've gone we've had to reduce the operator allowance
from two point four billion to one point three billion,
and of course primarily due to the lower forecasted growth,
and that's the result of we've had a change of
administration in the States, with the tariffs sort of happening
(03:18):
around around the world, we've.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Projected lower tax revenue.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
However, the reality of it is we have to do
that because in twenty fourteen, we went from fifty eight billion,
sorry from twenty seventeen, we went from fifty eight billion
dollars in debt for US as a country to one
hundred and seventy five billion through to twenty twenty four,
and we're paying. We went from a three point six
billion dollar a year interest bill to an eight point
(03:46):
nine billion dollar a year. We cannot afford that. That's
more than the annual core well, it's more than the
annual core grant expenses for police corrections, Ministry of Justice
and Customs.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
We just can't afford it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
What are you going to do, Jenny? Because on on
budget and I saw chippies trying to warm himself up
for this task. You can't, honestly, on budget day go,
we would have spent more here, more there, more there,
and more over there and borrowed yet more. Or will
you do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
I still want to know? Is that so the one
point three we've she's left, that's still got to have
the cancer drugs taken out of it?
Speaker 5 (04:20):
Isn't that creak? So does that leave likeer point three
billions the entire budget? I think that's correct.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
If you're correct. The cancer was six, the cancer was
six hundred, So it leaves you with one point three
minus six, which is seven, right, not point?
Speaker 4 (04:34):
So that my question. I read one article this morning
that said it was down to point there's problem and stuff.
What would have been promised.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
My question is what's left for the keeping the lights on?
Speaker 4 (04:48):
I mean they needed about one point.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
For It's why I'm asking Jenny. I think it's the savings.
If she's found, if she's found billions in savings and
we can you know, go, I get it as opposed.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
To the problem. We've got the same problem.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
So the savings last time, just in the Wellington economy
are locally so they cut jobs, there's a lower tax take,
they've got less money. They make more cuts, they lose jobs,
there's a lower tax take, there's less money, and we
keep going in a downward spiral. Is what's going to
be the thing that stops this downward spiral?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Mark your answer to that? I mean it's true about Wellington.
But if you haven't got the money, you haven't got
the money, have you?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Oh, it's just going to say.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
The reason our debt is so high is because Labour
had no appetite to control spending when they're in government,
and that's why we now have an increase of one
hundred and seventy five to one hundred and seventy five
billion dollars in debt we have to start returning ourselves
to service, which means that we are to surplus, which
means that we have to be responsible. And this government
is measured careful and purposeful in the way that we're
(05:44):
doing that, Whereas if you look at the other side,
when Trump came out with a tariffs, they panicked and said, oh,
we're going to start borrowing that. That's their default setting
is borrowing more money and splash it around. We cannot
afford as a country. We're a small country in the
bottom of the world. We do extremely well. We've got
a great future ahead of us, but we've got to
be responsible.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Our research department, Jenny got on to your zero point
three Was it the ASP's reconfiguration of the economy suggesting
the government cutting to one point three would take zero
point three percent off the economy.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
No, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
I was reading The car Cup by Bernard Hackey, and
he deducted what they'd promised so far to look at
what the overarching amount was that they had to work with.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
And is Bernard Hickey worth reading. I haven't read him
for a long time.
Speaker 5 (06:25):
Yes, I think he's good. He is a good summary.
He is a bit left leading. He lives on one
heck Island.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I just watched them last time out. I watched him
at the Reserve Bank press conference and he asked these
really wonky questions and I thought, Bernard, you're a bit wonky.
But then again, I suppose that's what you do at
the Reserve Bank press conferences, don't you.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
But to get back to your point before, there's no
plan from this government on how we get growth, saying
growth again and again isn't a plan, so we won't
need some wealth generation in our country.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
In order to be able to afford the services that
have been cut left, right and center.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
The different the gap is that they would argue the
economy will provide the growth, as opposed to the government
providing the growth, and that is the contest of ideas,
isn't it the leader, But.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
We're not seeing that, and we're not seeing any plan
or any proposal on how to get key industries on
New Zealand growing. So talking about it's a good example
is the video game development rebate forty million invested. There
is a of the rebate and that industry will go
to approximately seven hundred and fifty million for our economy
(07:31):
this year. And that's from about four or five hundred million.
So that's an example where government support in an area
has paid off well in advance of what was put in.
We need more examples of that to grow economy, not
just Nicola talking about going for growth. There's got to
be more to it than a slogan, and right now
they don't have that.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, let's just look at what she's done. She's in
the well.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
Is closing today?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
Well, hang on a second.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
We've got interest rates are coming down, inflation is now
down within the target range. We're delivering free trade agreements
around the world, new markets, We're making sure there's a
government we get the settings right to allow a private
sector to grow and flourish and have confidence to continue
to invest. And we inherited a very difficult set of books.
(08:20):
We inherited a few headwinds, but we're optimistic, we've focused,
and we're working hard to make sure.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
We do the question. Quick question for you, Mark. Have
you had a word to James mega At about his
brain explosion suggesting somehow the government was going to help
fund regional affairs up and down the country and what
he was thinking of when he said that.
Speaker 3 (08:36):
No, No, I haven't, but it's normal at South Island.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
I've noticed behind the camera like a vigorous no.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Important when the lead with Ginny as you would well know,
when the leaders doing a press conference to not and
here's a tip for you, Mark, by the way, get
on to them. And despite the fact that Audrey gave
him nine, Chris Biship looked as bored as the old
proverbial when he was standing behind Erica the other day
making her announcement, he looked like he wanted to kill himself.
He's got a smile, he's got to stand up straight
and he's got a nod.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I'll provide that feedback. Look, Jamie's doing the outstanding job.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
He's been a great gym and of the Justice Selik
Committee deeply pestiate.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
About the self the Treaty Prince outstanding.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
He's doing a great job.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Okay, if he comes up with something specific on how
to get to Parmeston to Omaru directly at a really
cheap price, do let us know it's good that.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I think that's good, that it's good that he's out
there hustling in trying.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
To look for solutions for the regions. That's that's good news.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
All right, Nice to see you, guys, Mark Mitchell, Junior Everson.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
For more from The Mike Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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