Government ministers have received a reminder about the "separation of powers".
Workplace Relations Minister Brooke van Velden has been criticised for claiming Employment Relations Authority members believed “money grows on trees”.
She's told our newsroom Attorney-General Judith Collins has discussed the matter with her.
National's Mark Mitchell told Mike Hosking Collins has reminded ministers they can't openly criticise the judiciary.
He says the separation of powers is important in a strong western democracy like ours.
Labour’s Ginny Andersen says the problem is that van Velden seems to have appointed people and expected them to make different decisions.
She says her comments demonstrate that they’ve been appointed on the basis that they’ll make certain decisions as opposed to being independent.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Politics Wednesday. By the way, Mark, You've got no interest in,
no vested interest in this. But are you surprised that
the numbers of the Tammicky by election as of yesterday
I think there were three or four thousand people with
forty four thousand enrolled, three or four thousand people have voted.
Is there something wrong with the by election? Is there
something wrong with democracy? Is there something? What is it?
I mean it seems pathetic.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, I think it's a bi election so it's out
of cycle, so you know it's hard to get people
that interested in it. But yeah, I mean it's it's
a big concern is that this whole a whole lot
of reasons, probably given a couple there, but you know,
very low turnout. But you know there should be more
interested in it because the Labor Party are out there
tauting Penny is the future leader.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, so you think.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
It's going to get that was the multi party he
was doing that, I believe.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Saying it as well. So definitely not be in that camp.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Have you have you been campaigning with Penny at all? Jinny?
I know, has anyone been campaigning with Penny? Because he
seems to be making up a lot of his own policy.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
He's been comparing with lots of people and I'm hitting
after the coronation to do all day Friday with him
up there. So he's been working incredibly hard. And I
think the thing that stands out for Penny is he's
got the experience and that's really stacking up as you
go through this camp.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah. When you say experience, when when he when is
his his policy on the hoof thing he's got going?
How does that unfold the people believe that he's going
to do that, or can he say anything he wants
in a by election campaign or I just don't understand
what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
The fact that he has been the minister responsible for
far no order means he's able to speak to the
reality of what it means to make decisions is Mardi
within government and a big part of that is being
able to work with Maldy, and I think that's the
clear point of difference. He has that in order to
drive the best results, not only just for Maldy but
(01:51):
for New Zealanders, we need to work together.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
And he gets there, Okay, Well, he wants gagsback and
there he wants the game patches given back and that's
not seeing you want some Marie agency for health or something.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
That's well, he's got a lot more work cut out
for them. Now. These are seven hundred and forty more
gang members under this government, so there'll be more work.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
To do in don't worry decline and gang members the gangs.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
If you've got members, though, Jenny, by giving them back
their patches, does that help reduce that number or doesn't
help increase it?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Will?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
It definitely doesn't make any difference to the ninety seven
percent of more myth and fetamine that they're pushing on
the streets of New Zealand International.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
They won't just give them that. They won't just give
them their pictures back. They'll give them three minutes. They'll
give them millions of dollars to run myth programs for
the guys that are dealing the myth.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Let me be clear that it's definitely not our position.
We will not do that.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
But we won't do that as will deliver more.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Than the twenty three police officers that Mark's delivered so
far out of the five hundred, because we'll be meeting
more than twenty three.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I think the good news is I'm sure that you'll
be very pleased to hear though the police have been
delivering outstanding results for us as a country the last
eighteen months with crime going down.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I think we're up over one hundred.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I think we're actually doing quite well with the recruit
Where did they places association?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
You have it at twenty three to I don't.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
All right, where did the leadership of stuff come from?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Sorry?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I missed that.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Where did the leadership stuff come from?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
What?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Watch leadership?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Penny having a crack at the leadership?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
That has been something that the Multi Party raised I
think in Q and A that was.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So that was just solely them. So I saw, I
saw amazing question and I didn't deny it.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
From all I've seen is well. First of all, the
Multi Party candidate said that she voted for Penny and
the last general election and then subsequently and the Q
and a interview with Jack Tayne, she stated that Penny
would make a good prime minister and that was all said.
I haven't heard any comment on outside in terms of
leadership for him, but they don't get me wrong. He's
(03:57):
an excellent person and he's got the ability to really
bring Maori and Parkier together for the benefit of New
Zealand and those excellent characteristic.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I think Shennon Helbert, who I think is in your
in the labor Caucus, was out there saying that his
leadership credentials are emerging for everyone to see.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So yeah, well, I saw a Penny interviews. I saw
a Penny interviewed and they said what about it? And
he goes, well, let's get the by election out of
the way first, And I thought, well, hold on something, something.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
That's okay, I said, but I have got you. The
only one I viewed was from Don't get me wrong,
is excellent. He's doing a great job.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Okay, if you hear anything, Ginny, can you keep us
posted because I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
There will be a florry of calls going on there.
Don't you worry about.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That, Marcus. Judith had a word about you know, Brook
van Velden the other day and saying things as Judith
had a word to you about watching your watching your
step and your tongue.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
In just just a general mind of for all ministers,
what can you.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Say and what can't you say? Because Luxem was on
the show having a good crack at the Reserve Bank
and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought it was good.
I'm into saying whatever you like, and you know what
I mean, you.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Should be as nationally that I just speak, speak your
mind and be honest.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I mean, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, but there is a separation of powers and it's important,
you know, strong with democracy like House, it does work
that we recognize that. And that means that you know,
we can't come out and openly criticize the judiciary and
they need to stick to those rules as well.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Do you agree with that, Ginny? Would you like to
say a whole bunch of stuff you can't.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
The problem with what Brook van veldensued is that she's
appointed some people and she's expecting them to make different decisions.
So she thinks those appointments will have an impact on
decisions that will flavor favor employees over employee games, and
it will save the government money by employee claims not succeeding.
And that looks like she's appointed people who are friends
(06:03):
with her to give her decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But that's that's standard politics. I mean, I mean, how
did Melander?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It's your appointments when you're kind of.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Bordering on it's kind of ordering on corruption when you
do stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
The problem is every government, every government appoints people that
they kind of like. We know that to be true.
It's just what you're saying is you can't really say so,
whereas I would say, yeah, I appointed some people I
like and I want that I want them to do
what I want them to do. That's what government is,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Well, that the problem is is provision and that legislation
that they are independent and who comments demonstrate they've been
appointed on the basis she expects them to make certain decisions.
So that's where you get into hot order when you're
a minister, that you're appointing people to make decisions that
are meant to be independent, that actually have a way
of what you're wanting.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, the first thing, the only thing that I would
say like is in that I have my experience having
been in two national governments, is that we appoint people
on merit. They actually have to have the skills and
the ability to be able to do the job. Yes,
governments like to you know, they they like the people
at that point. But the first the number one criteria,
This is not a criteria that labor stick to you
(07:13):
at all. It's got to be on merit.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And then if they do the wrong thing, just you
just get rid of them. What they did with quickly
got he's gone.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
You guys need you guys need to focus.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You guys need to focus on merit and not on
a whole lot of other things because it just weakens
and diluctes.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Who I thought of last week, Ginny with Winston Peters
and saying you're going to have diplomats not politicians, and
that King. No one would argue against Nick King, would they.
I mean, she seems to have done an excellent job
and bolting in Washington.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they have the some ones here
that have done done a really good job. And the
other one who was quite good was the was it
Jonathan Hunt in London?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:49):
So yeah, so I think there have been ones in
the past that do that do a good job. And
for all, for all this the info I got, actually
Triva was doing pretty good.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You made that up, just made that.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
People went over there from from the other side and
they were like, he's doing all right.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
So he played Bury medal Ow full noise.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right, Mark, I've got I've got a I pray you're
the messenger. I'm not blaming you. But here's this morning's
problem on the mic asking breakfast Simon Watts. Do you
know Simon? Yes, he's in Australia. He wouldn't get up
for us at five thirty? Unfair or not?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I can't call me that because you've got out of
the government. You'd get up at five thirty for us,
wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Well, I'm on the show every week.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
No, I know, But I mean even if you weren't,
you'd still get up at five thirty for us, wouldn't
you if you were in Australia.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I get up regardless of what the error is because
I'm on the show every week and I just think
it's important to tune up.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
How early would you should?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
But maybe it's like actor and individual freedom. Maybe Simon
just feels like he's got some No he's no, I'm
getting the other Simon. Simon Wats is the climate change?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes he is, Simon National. Do you think we were
talking about Simon?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
There's another Simon that's a bit funny from X.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
What's his name, Simon Court Court?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, yeah, Simon is extremely hard working.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
The only thing I would say, I just won't get
up at.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
My experience on the show is that every time the
labor member asked for me to do a pre record
because they're overseas and they didn't want to get out.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Of you, and I did it.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I've never done that.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Don Jo has to do a pre record for the record.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Jinny, it's fear if and when you get to government
and you're the minister of something important, what's the earliest
I can ring you, get you on the biggest radio
program in the country and give you.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I'd do it. I'd sit my alarm and wake up.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Any time four fifteen for a pre record. John Well
on you, I like your style, Ginny Anderson and Mark Mitchell.
Who needs Penny? I like Ginny.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
For more from the Make Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Politics Wednesday. By the way, Mark, You've got no interest in,
no vested interest in this. But are you surprised that
the numbers of the Tammicky by election as of yesterday
I think there were three or four thousand people with
forty four thousand enrolled, three or four thousand people have voted.
Is there something wrong with the by election? Is there
something wrong with democracy? Is there something? What is it?
I mean it seems pathetic.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Well, I think it's a bi election so it's out
of cycle, so you know it's hard to get people
that interested in it. But yeah, I mean it's it's
a big concern is that this whole a whole lot
of reasons, probably given a couple there, but you know,
very low turnout. But you know there should be more
interested in it because the Labor Party are out there
tauting Penny is the future leader.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah, so you think.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
It's going to get that was the multi party he
was doing that, I believe.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Saying it as well. So definitely not be in that camp.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Have you have you been campaigning with Penny at all? Jinny?
I know, has anyone been campaigning with Penny? Because he
seems to be making up a lot of his own policy.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
He's been comparing with lots of people and I'm hitting
after the coronation to do all day Friday with him
up there. So he's been working incredibly hard. And I
think the thing that stands out for Penny is he's
got the experience and that's really stacking up as you
go through this camp.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah. When you say experience, when when he when is
his his policy on the hoof thing he's got going?
How does that unfold the people believe that he's going
to do that, or can he say anything he wants
in a by election campaign or I just don't understand
what he's doing.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
The fact that he has been the minister responsible for
far no order means he's able to speak to the
reality of what it means to make decisions is Mardi
within government and a big part of that is being
able to work with Maldy, and I think that's the
clear point of difference. He has that in order to
drive the best results, not only just for Maldy but
(01:51):
for New Zealanders, we need to work together.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
And he gets there, Okay, Well, he wants gagsback and
there he wants the game patches given back and that's
not seeing you want some Marie agency for health or something.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
That's well, he's got a lot more work cut out
for them. Now. These are seven hundred and forty more
gang members under this government, so there'll be more work.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
To do in don't worry decline and gang members the gangs.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
If you've got members, though, Jenny, by giving them back
their patches, does that help reduce that number or doesn't
help increase it?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Will?
Speaker 4 (02:22):
It definitely doesn't make any difference to the ninety seven
percent of more myth and fetamine that they're pushing on
the streets of New Zealand International.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
They won't just give them that. They won't just give
them their pictures back. They'll give them three minutes. They'll
give them millions of dollars to run myth programs for
the guys that are dealing the myth.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
Let me be clear that it's definitely not our position.
We will not do that.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
But we won't do that as will deliver more.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
Than the twenty three police officers that Mark's delivered so
far out of the five hundred, because we'll be meeting
more than twenty three.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I think the good news is I'm sure that you'll
be very pleased to hear though the police have been
delivering outstanding results for us as a country the last
eighteen months with crime going down.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I think we're up over one hundred.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
I think we're actually doing quite well with the recruit
Where did they places association?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
You have it at twenty three to I don't.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
All right, where did the leadership of stuff come from?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Sorry?
Speaker 4 (03:17):
I missed that.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Where did the leadership stuff come from?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
What?
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Watch leadership?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Penny having a crack at the leadership?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
That has been something that the Multi Party raised I
think in Q and A that was.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So that was just solely them. So I saw, I
saw amazing question and I didn't deny it.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
From all I've seen is well. First of all, the
Multi Party candidate said that she voted for Penny and
the last general election and then subsequently and the Q
and a interview with Jack Tayne, she stated that Penny
would make a good prime minister and that was all said.
I haven't heard any comment on outside in terms of
leadership for him, but they don't get me wrong. He's
(03:57):
an excellent person and he's got the ability to really
bring Maori and Parkier together for the benefit of New
Zealand and those excellent characteristic.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I think Shennon Helbert, who I think is in your
in the labor Caucus, was out there saying that his
leadership credentials are emerging for everyone to see.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So yeah, well, I saw a Penny interviews. I saw
a Penny interviewed and they said what about it? And
he goes, well, let's get the by election out of
the way first, And I thought, well, hold on something, something.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
That's okay, I said, but I have got you. The
only one I viewed was from Don't get me wrong,
is excellent. He's doing a great job.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Okay, if you hear anything, Ginny, can you keep us
posted because I'd like to.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
There will be a florry of calls going on there.
Don't you worry about.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
That, Marcus. Judith had a word about you know, Brook
van Velden the other day and saying things as Judith
had a word to you about watching your watching your
step and your tongue.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
In just just a general mind of for all ministers,
what can you.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Say and what can't you say? Because Luxem was on
the show having a good crack at the Reserve Bank
and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought it was good.
I'm into saying whatever you like, and you know what
I mean, you.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Should be as nationally that I just speak, speak your
mind and be honest.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
I mean, what's wrong with that?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, but there is a separation of powers and it's important,
you know, strong with democracy like House, it does work
that we recognize that. And that means that you know,
we can't come out and openly criticize the judiciary and
they need to stick to those rules as well.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Do you agree with that, Ginny? Would you like to
say a whole bunch of stuff you can't.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
The problem with what Brook van veldensued is that she's
appointed some people and she's expecting them to make different decisions.
So she thinks those appointments will have an impact on
decisions that will flavor favor employees over employee games, and
it will save the government money by employee claims not succeeding.
And that looks like she's appointed people who are friends
(06:03):
with her to give her decisions.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But that's that's standard politics. I mean, I mean, how
did Melander?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
It's your appointments when you're kind of.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Bordering on it's kind of ordering on corruption when you
do stuff.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
The problem is every government, every government appoints people that
they kind of like. We know that to be true.
It's just what you're saying is you can't really say so,
whereas I would say, yeah, I appointed some people I
like and I want that I want them to do
what I want them to do. That's what government is,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Well, that the problem is is provision and that legislation
that they are independent and who comments demonstrate they've been
appointed on the basis she expects them to make certain decisions.
So that's where you get into hot order when you're
a minister, that you're appointing people to make decisions that
are meant to be independent, that actually have a way
of what you're wanting.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, the first thing, the only thing that I would
say like is in that I have my experience having
been in two national governments, is that we appoint people
on merit. They actually have to have the skills and
the ability to be able to do the job. Yes,
governments like to you know, they they like the people
at that point. But the first the number one criteria,
This is not a criteria that labor stick to you
(07:13):
at all. It's got to be on merit.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
And then if they do the wrong thing, just you
just get rid of them. What they did with quickly
got he's gone.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
You guys need you guys need to focus.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
You guys need to focus on merit and not on
a whole lot of other things because it just weakens
and diluctes.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Who I thought of last week, Ginny with Winston Peters
and saying you're going to have diplomats not politicians, and
that King. No one would argue against Nick King, would they.
I mean, she seems to have done an excellent job
and bolting in Washington.
Speaker 4 (07:39):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, they have the some ones here
that have done done a really good job. And the
other one who was quite good was the was it
Jonathan Hunt in London?
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (07:49):
So yeah, so I think there have been ones in
the past that do that do a good job. And
for all, for all this the info I got, actually
Triva was doing pretty good.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
You made that up, just made that.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
People went over there from from the other side and
they were like, he's doing all right.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
So he played Bury medal Ow full noise.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Right, Mark, I've got I've got a I pray you're
the messenger. I'm not blaming you. But here's this morning's
problem on the mic asking breakfast Simon Watts. Do you
know Simon? Yes, he's in Australia. He wouldn't get up
for us at five thirty? Unfair or not?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I can't call me that because you've got out of
the government. You'd get up at five thirty for us,
wouldn't you.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Well, I'm on the show every week.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
No, I know, But I mean even if you weren't,
you'd still get up at five thirty for us, wouldn't
you if you were in Australia.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
I get up regardless of what the error is because
I'm on the show every week and I just think
it's important to tune up.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
How early would you should?
Speaker 4 (08:55):
But maybe it's like actor and individual freedom. Maybe Simon
just feels like he's got some No he's no, I'm
getting the other Simon. Simon Wats is the climate change?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes he is, Simon National. Do you think we were
talking about Simon?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
There's another Simon that's a bit funny from X.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
What's his name, Simon Court Court?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Yeah, yeah, Simon is extremely hard working.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
The only thing I would say, I just won't get
up at.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
My experience on the show is that every time the
labor member asked for me to do a pre record
because they're overseas and they didn't want to get out.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Of you, and I did it.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
I've never done that.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Don Jo has to do a pre record for the record.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Jinny, it's fear if and when you get to government
and you're the minister of something important, what's the earliest
I can ring you, get you on the biggest radio
program in the country and give you.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
I'd do it. I'd sit my alarm and wake up.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Any time four fifteen for a pre record. John Well
on you, I like your style, Ginny Anderson and Mark Mitchell.
Who needs Penny? I like Ginny.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
For more from the Make Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news Talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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