November 10, 2025 • 7 mins
The BBC's chairman has denied claims the BBC is trying to bury accusations of bias as Donald Trump threatens to sue the company.
A leaked BBC memo suggests the Panorama programme edited Trump’s speech to imply he encouraged the Capitol Hill riots of January 2021.
The US President is demanding a full retraction and is threatening to sue for nearly NZ$1.8 billion in damages.
BBC director general Tim Davie and BBC News CEO Deborah Turness have both stepped down.
UK Correspondent Rod Liddle told Mike Hosking that Chairman Samir Shah said he doesn’t believe the BBC is institutionally biased, but Liddle isn’t sure he believes that.
Liddle believes Shah said it as he feels the need to hold the BBC together in the wake of its two most damaging resignations, Davie and Turness.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Britain, Rod a little morning to you, Mite, good morning.
I don't know. I can only imagine. I mean, it's
a big story here, for goodness sake, I can only
imagine how big it is in your part of the world.
As far as clusters go and previous clusters involving the BBC,
where does this one sit?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I think rather high, because it's about editorial standards and
that's what the BBC has always banked its reputation on.
You know, I mentioned this story to you last week
when it was making no headway whatsoever, you know, no
headway at all. And yet suddenly it has, partly I
(00:38):
think as a consequence of Donald Trump's intervention, who picked
up on some of the stuff that we were all
writing over here. Needless to say, the BBC is in
a state of complete and utter denial about it. If
you listen to their morning bullet in the Today Program
or the five o'clock show PM, they're all saying a
right wing coup has occurred within the BBC and we're
(00:58):
all being penalized Ford and there's nothing wrong without journalism.
It's remarkable of something defiance. I don't know. I think
it's a show of ignorance, that they just don't know
the trouble they're in.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's funny you should say that because the woman who
fell on I sawed yesterday along with the DG. She
was out there this morning, and I believe that she
believes when she goes and we're not biased. I believe
that she believes that. But she doesn't obviously understand just
how out to lunch she clearly is, and the rest
of the world doesn't see her the same way she
sees herself.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No, that's right. I think that's right. Because she comes
from Channel four, you know, BBC background, they're all in
the same bubble together. She probably thinks that being in
favor of her mass is kind of civilized, and that
taking the wilder views on trans issues, there's also a
(01:55):
question of civility. Samir Shah said the same thing. He's
the chairman of the BBC. He said he didn't think
that the BBC was institutionally biased. I don't believe he
thinks that. No, I think he knows that it is
because you know, you know him.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I mean, why would he do that if what you
sayer's creed? Why would he go and say that?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I think because what he feels he needs to do
now is hold to the BBC together in the wake
of two of its most damaging resignations, the DJ and
head of News. Incidentally, the guy, the guy who said
that the editing of the Panorama documentary was normal practice
remains head of News Content. God knows how, but there
(02:42):
we are. So I think he is trying to pull
the BBC together. But there's an existential threat. You know,
if Donald Trump really does sue for a billion of quid,
well that's kind of the end of the BBC, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, exactly, Well that it comes back to the business
r Ronically, we must not forget there was the parliamentary
inquiry which is due to go this week on Gaza
and train so they head form and and and you
can't forget the fact it is publicly hunted, you know,
text payers, you know, pay for all of this, which
leads to the question, if it's biased and they've been
caught and it's a problem, what do they do about it?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, you see, this is a huge problem because I
don't know that there's very much they can do. I
spoke to Tim Davey when he became Director General and
he was well aware that there was a bias, and
he said as much, you know. He said, yes, there's
a bias. He said we can put we can put
that right. And they thought they were winning the battle.
(03:41):
You listened to the Today Program and PM it's still
exactly the same stuff. And uh this, this wasn't an
attack from the right. We impressed this dossier which which
we're all reading at the moment. It wasn't, you know,
the Murdoch Empire or the far right. It was their
(04:02):
own editorial advisor who said, I'm afraid you're I'm shocked.
You called it shocking bias and discrimination in one direction. Remarkable.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Somebody said yesterday. I can't remember who it was, but
the suggestion was that the DG's job is now undoable.
You can't be a DG at the BBC. It's such
a cluster. No one can fix it. Is that fail.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's certainly a job you wouldn't want, you know, whereas
it used to be the greatest job in broadcasting. Of course,
it is true, and this is partly a consequence of
changing market, which is that there are people out there
who will attack the BBC for ideological and commercial reasons
(04:53):
and will keep on doing so and keep on doing
so and forcing the BBC to react by the same token.
The BBC with social media and all this kind of stuff.
The BBC is far more open now and we can
see it's where it's causing problems for itself. So it
is a very very difficult job. And I, you know,
(05:15):
I feel some sympathy with Tim Davey.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, having said that, I was long with the boss
here and I thought he made a reason. See when
Lineker was there, I couldn't hear this what he thinks.
He can be anything he wants as long as he's
good at the football, that's all we're playing him for.
And yet he got himself an endless amount of political trouble.
What about all the DJs on the music stations who
are out there. You know, there's a lot that the
BBC does that's actually very popular, very successful and very
good that doesn't have any journalistic attachment to it at all,
(05:43):
And it must be hard working for an organization that's
dreadfully tainted. You're actually nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, no, indeed. And I remember when Greg dug came
in as Director General when I was working at the BBC,
and he said, God, if I could only get rid
of news would be fine. And indeed, last week everyone
was in euphoria celebrating the final episode of Celebrity Traitors,
which has been described as a television event of the year.
(06:11):
That's something the BBC got very right. But over the
years even the good stuff has become tainted. You know.
The dramas and now invariably are about some kind of
intersectional politics issue. You know, the comedians tend to be
all from the left. It infests everywhere because it's such
(06:35):
an authoritarian dogma, the far left. And we're talking about
the far left. You know, it's not the center left,
it's the far left. And the BBC's it. Why have
we got an LGBTQ unit in the BBC? There was
a one on ITV, you know, why have one?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's a really good question. Speaking about TV. By the way,
just quickly can they sell their television business to Sky
without some sort of regulator going we'll hold on here.
You own or now dominate a tremendous amount of the market.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I don't know, is the short answer to that my
suspicion That My suspicion is they probably can these days.
But I don't know enough about it. I shall cannot
it from when we next, from when we're next to.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Prepare yourself, prepare, prepare yourself for Thursday, Rod, there will
be at least sixteen questions on that subject coming you away.
I appreciate your times always, Rod Little Yeah. So ITV.
So the television business gets sold to Sky also in Britain.
Doesn't include the production stuff, the production stuff as I'm
a celebrity, Love Island, all that other bollocks. But they
will have they about seventy percent of the UK television
(07:45):
advertising market if it goes ahead. So I would have
thought somebody, someone has got to have a look at that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
In Britain, Rod a little morning to you, Mite, good morning.
I don't know. I can only imagine. I mean, it's
a big story here, for goodness sake, I can only
imagine how big it is in your part of the world.
As far as clusters go and previous clusters involving the BBC,
where does this one sit?
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I think rather high, because it's about editorial standards and
that's what the BBC has always banked its reputation on.
You know, I mentioned this story to you last week
when it was making no headway whatsoever, you know, no
headway at all. And yet suddenly it has, partly I
(00:38):
think as a consequence of Donald Trump's intervention, who picked
up on some of the stuff that we were all
writing over here. Needless to say, the BBC is in
a state of complete and utter denial about it. If
you listen to their morning bullet in the Today Program
or the five o'clock show PM, they're all saying a
right wing coup has occurred within the BBC and we're
(00:58):
all being penalized Ford and there's nothing wrong without journalism.
It's remarkable of something defiance. I don't know. I think
it's a show of ignorance, that they just don't know
the trouble they're in.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's funny you should say that because the woman who
fell on I sawed yesterday along with the DG. She
was out there this morning, and I believe that she
believes when she goes and we're not biased. I believe
that she believes that. But she doesn't obviously understand just
how out to lunch she clearly is, and the rest
of the world doesn't see her the same way she
sees herself.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
No, that's right. I think that's right. Because she comes
from Channel four, you know, BBC background, they're all in
the same bubble together. She probably thinks that being in
favor of her mass is kind of civilized, and that
taking the wilder views on trans issues, there's also a
(01:55):
question of civility. Samir Shah said the same thing. He's
the chairman of the BBC. He said he didn't think
that the BBC was institutionally biased. I don't believe he
thinks that. No, I think he knows that it is
because you know, you know him.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
I mean, why would he do that if what you
sayer's creed? Why would he go and say that?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
I think because what he feels he needs to do
now is hold to the BBC together in the wake
of two of its most damaging resignations, the DJ and
head of News. Incidentally, the guy, the guy who said
that the editing of the Panorama documentary was normal practice
remains head of News Content. God knows how, but there
(02:42):
we are. So I think he is trying to pull
the BBC together. But there's an existential threat. You know,
if Donald Trump really does sue for a billion of quid,
well that's kind of the end of the BBC, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, exactly, Well that it comes back to the business
r Ronically, we must not forget there was the parliamentary
inquiry which is due to go this week on Gaza
and train so they head form and and and you
can't forget the fact it is publicly hunted, you know,
text payers, you know, pay for all of this, which
leads to the question, if it's biased and they've been
caught and it's a problem, what do they do about it?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, you see, this is a huge problem because I
don't know that there's very much they can do. I
spoke to Tim Davey when he became Director General and
he was well aware that there was a bias, and
he said as much, you know. He said, yes, there's
a bias. He said we can put we can put
that right. And they thought they were winning the battle.
(03:41):
You listened to the Today Program and PM it's still
exactly the same stuff. And uh this, this wasn't an
attack from the right. We impressed this dossier which which
we're all reading at the moment. It wasn't, you know,
the Murdoch Empire or the far right. It was their
(04:02):
own editorial advisor who said, I'm afraid you're I'm shocked.
You called it shocking bias and discrimination in one direction. Remarkable.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Somebody said yesterday. I can't remember who it was, but
the suggestion was that the DG's job is now undoable.
You can't be a DG at the BBC. It's such
a cluster. No one can fix it. Is that fail.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's certainly a job you wouldn't want, you know, whereas
it used to be the greatest job in broadcasting. Of course,
it is true, and this is partly a consequence of
changing market, which is that there are people out there
who will attack the BBC for ideological and commercial reasons
(04:53):
and will keep on doing so and keep on doing
so and forcing the BBC to react by the same token.
The BBC with social media and all this kind of stuff.
The BBC is far more open now and we can
see it's where it's causing problems for itself. So it
is a very very difficult job. And I, you know,
(05:15):
I feel some sympathy with Tim Davey.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Yeah, having said that, I was long with the boss
here and I thought he made a reason. See when
Lineker was there, I couldn't hear this what he thinks.
He can be anything he wants as long as he's
good at the football, that's all we're playing him for.
And yet he got himself an endless amount of political trouble.
What about all the DJs on the music stations who
are out there. You know, there's a lot that the
BBC does that's actually very popular, very successful and very
good that doesn't have any journalistic attachment to it at all,
(05:43):
And it must be hard working for an organization that's
dreadfully tainted. You're actually nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, no, indeed. And I remember when Greg dug came
in as Director General when I was working at the BBC,
and he said, God, if I could only get rid
of news would be fine. And indeed, last week everyone
was in euphoria celebrating the final episode of Celebrity Traitors,
which has been described as a television event of the year.
(06:11):
That's something the BBC got very right. But over the
years even the good stuff has become tainted. You know.
The dramas and now invariably are about some kind of
intersectional politics issue. You know, the comedians tend to be
all from the left. It infests everywhere because it's such
(06:35):
an authoritarian dogma, the far left. And we're talking about
the far left. You know, it's not the center left,
it's the far left. And the BBC's it. Why have
we got an LGBTQ unit in the BBC? There was
a one on ITV, you know, why have one?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's a really good question. Speaking about TV. By the way,
just quickly can they sell their television business to Sky
without some sort of regulator going we'll hold on here.
You own or now dominate a tremendous amount of the market.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
I don't know, is the short answer to that my
suspicion That My suspicion is they probably can these days.
But I don't know enough about it. I shall cannot
it from when we next, from when we're next to.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Prepare yourself, prepare, prepare yourself for Thursday, Rod, there will
be at least sixteen questions on that subject coming you away.
I appreciate your times always, Rod Little Yeah. So ITV.
So the television business gets sold to Sky also in Britain.
Doesn't include the production stuff, the production stuff as I'm
a celebrity, Love Island, all that other bollocks. But they
will have they about seventy percent of the UK television
(07:45):
advertising market if it goes ahead. So I would have
thought somebody, someone has got to have a look at that.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
news talks.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com