October 7, 2024 • 7 mins
The UK Prime Minister’s chief of staff has quit her role, saying she “risked becoming a distraction”.
Sue Gray was caught up in a conflict over pay, after the BBC revealed that her salary was higher than Prime Minister Sir Kier Starmer’s.
UK Correspondent Rod Liddle told Mike Hosking that this is quite a remarkable decision.
He said that in the last six to eight months, Starmer hasn’t sacked anyone despite there being calls.
Liddle says the howl within his own camp had become so grave that he could do nothing other than accept the resignation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If we going to Britain now offering Rod Little's with us, Roderick,
good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good morning to you mate, Nice to hear you.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Back, Nice to be back. Now, do explain this to me.
Sue Gray earns one hundred and seventy thousand pounds and
Keystarmer earns one hundred and sixty six Now in this
country we had the same scenario. There are plenty of
public servants who earn more than politicians. We don't seem
to make that bigger deal about it. Why is it
a big deal for you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It never used to be a big deal. I mean,
it's been this kind of corrosive thing over the last
twenty to thirty years that anybody who earns more than
the prime minister is earning too much. That's a matter
of fact. That's true if you're on the left and
you're looking at kind of the bosses of corporations. And
(00:50):
it's true if you're on the right and you're looking
at council chiefs, because the majority of council chiefs across
the country will earn more than than prime minister does.
And Sue Gray, as you know, a senior civil servant
earned more than the prime minister. It just happens to
be the case that, you know, in the case of
(01:10):
Sue Gray, she was overpaid by roughly amount of the
amount of money which she received in most people's opinions,
but it's always been the case made And it's stupid,
you know, I mean, because one of the things we
should talk about and perhaps are barred from doing so,
(01:33):
and no politician will raise it. It's that both our
MPs and indeed our prime minister don't get enough money. No,
it really is as simple as.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That, exactly. See, our prime minister gets four hundred and
eighty one thousand dollars, which in your money is two
forty so way more, yeah, than the Prime Minister of
Great Britain. Mind you, our prime minister doesn't accept glasses
and free suits, so it's sort of all balances up,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Well you might say that, but then by the same
tone of your prime minister is also the prime minister
of a small hermit state tucked away at the end
near the it is. It seems to me an absurdity
that the prime minister of this country doesn't get somewhere
in the original three to four hundred thousand pounds. You know,
(02:21):
it seems to be an absurdity.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So Gray's new job as the Overseer of Nations or
whatever the hell they call it, what is that?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It isn't anything. She doesn't have a job. She's been
shuffled off, and I one could see her being shuffled
off a year ago when she was first appointed. She's obviously,
of course a lot of dissension or been the occasion
of a lot of dissension within Downing Street and within
the people who who who have been working for Karstar's campaign.
(02:55):
She's very simple minded, she's dogmatic. I think the phrase
which is usually used is doesn't suffer fools gladly, which
means she's a rude cow. I think say it's the
way one has to translate these civil service episeets. But
it's also true that much as with Alistair Campbell, she
(03:18):
had to become the story. And it's not just that
because this is quite a remarkable decision. If you look
at Keir Starmer over the last six to eight months,
whether since becoming Prime Minister or even before then, he
hasn't sacked people. There have been calls for him to
sack people and he's never done it, but clearly the
(03:41):
howl round within his own camp rather than in the
press at large, had become so grave that he could
do nothing other than that. And so we have a
new chief of staff now, who is Morgan McSweeney or
Boatie mcboat face as he's almost certainly going to become known.
Who's an Irish guy who's been working with Starma for
(04:02):
a long time.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Right, So I'm watching Lord O'Donnell, who was the former
cabinet secretary, and you're looking for a cabinet secretary at
the Minment and that's a couple hundred thousand pounds a year, Ken,
and he's arguing you should get paid more because he,
subsequent to being the cabinet secretary has been he says,
paid a lot more to do a lot less. Do
you not run the risk if you don't pay people
properly that the only reason they're really there is for
the power or the authority or the ego, and not
(04:27):
actually for the money, because half decent people can earn
decent money elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Of course you do. And it's not just that, mate.
I mean, forgive me for defending Starma for a moment,
but you know, if you are supposedly the most powerful
man in the country, but you're being paid at the
level of the manager of Driffield City Council. You know,
(04:56):
then you are prone to the kindnesses of aids who
offer you a million pound apartment or an eighteen million
pound apartment and buy some clothes for your poor wife.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The fact that we pay our elective politicians so little
comparatively is that it means that they are at risk
always of this kind of accusation that they're taking money
on the frame. And yet if you try to suggest
(05:31):
that the money should be raised, you know you will
hear it on question Time on the BBC. I've said
before on Question Time the MP should get more and
there will always be a nurse says I get.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Thirty four thousand pounds a year. You have to try
to explain to them, yes, well okay, and I'm sure
you do a great job, but this is the Prime Minister,
you know, this is an important job.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I had a poll out this morning. I had a
poll out this morning on Starmer who is favorability and
favorability is now sitting at minus thirty five and this
resets on and they're looking at the norn don text
and the equity texts and the private penchingtech. How have
things gone so wrong so fast?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Because he's not very good? I think it's the first
thing to say. I mean, I think that does have
to be said that there never seemed to be any
driving force behind Starma other than the desire to win.
And he won on a very shallow basis. You know,
he didn't carry within the sorts of people which Tony
(06:35):
Blair carried with him in ninety seven, and still far
less that Margaret Tacha carried with her in seventy nine,
even though it's a comparable landslide. He is not very adept,
He is not very agile politically. There is no great
imagination about how to make this country better, which is
(06:56):
what we all rather hoped for. There are people within
his shadow, were within his cabinet, who suggests at a
degree of imagination, such as web streeting, for example. But
nonetheless this is a great managerial, boring labor regime and
(07:16):
people don't like it.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Always a pleasure, Mike. We'll catch up on Thursday. Rod
little out of Britain this morning. I wonder if there's
a see we had this discussion in this country didn't
we with the Adun government, they weren't really. They set
there for nine years, allegedly getting prepped up. When they arrived,
they didn't know what they were doing, so it was
endless working groups. We've seen the same with alban Ezi
in Australia. Small honeymoon, but now a disaster starmer hasn't
even lasted one hundred days. I wonder if there's a
(07:38):
connection for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Listen live to news talks.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
If we going to Britain now offering Rod Little's with us, Roderick,
good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good morning to you mate, Nice to hear you.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Back, Nice to be back. Now, do explain this to me.
Sue Gray earns one hundred and seventy thousand pounds and
Keystarmer earns one hundred and sixty six Now in this
country we had the same scenario. There are plenty of
public servants who earn more than politicians. We don't seem
to make that bigger deal about it. Why is it
a big deal for you guys?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It never used to be a big deal. I mean,
it's been this kind of corrosive thing over the last
twenty to thirty years that anybody who earns more than
the prime minister is earning too much. That's a matter
of fact. That's true if you're on the left and
you're looking at kind of the bosses of corporations. And
(00:50):
it's true if you're on the right and you're looking
at council chiefs, because the majority of council chiefs across
the country will earn more than than prime minister does.
And Sue Gray, as you know, a senior civil servant
earned more than the prime minister. It just happens to
be the case that, you know, in the case of
(01:10):
Sue Gray, she was overpaid by roughly amount of the
amount of money which she received in most people's opinions,
but it's always been the case made And it's stupid,
you know, I mean, because one of the things we
should talk about and perhaps are barred from doing so,
(01:33):
and no politician will raise it. It's that both our
MPs and indeed our prime minister don't get enough money. No,
it really is as simple as.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
That, exactly. See, our prime minister gets four hundred and
eighty one thousand dollars, which in your money is two
forty so way more, yeah, than the Prime Minister of
Great Britain. Mind you, our prime minister doesn't accept glasses
and free suits, so it's sort of all balances up,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Well you might say that, but then by the same
tone of your prime minister is also the prime minister
of a small hermit state tucked away at the end
near the it is. It seems to me an absurdity
that the prime minister of this country doesn't get somewhere
in the original three to four hundred thousand pounds. You know,
(02:21):
it seems to be an absurdity.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So Gray's new job as the Overseer of Nations or
whatever the hell they call it, what is that?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
It isn't anything. She doesn't have a job. She's been
shuffled off, and I one could see her being shuffled
off a year ago when she was first appointed. She's obviously,
of course a lot of dissension or been the occasion
of a lot of dissension within Downing Street and within
the people who who who have been working for Karstar's campaign.
(02:55):
She's very simple minded, she's dogmatic. I think the phrase
which is usually used is doesn't suffer fools gladly, which
means she's a rude cow. I think say it's the
way one has to translate these civil service episeets. But
it's also true that much as with Alistair Campbell, she
(03:18):
had to become the story. And it's not just that
because this is quite a remarkable decision. If you look
at Keir Starmer over the last six to eight months,
whether since becoming Prime Minister or even before then, he
hasn't sacked people. There have been calls for him to
sack people and he's never done it, but clearly the
(03:41):
howl round within his own camp rather than in the
press at large, had become so grave that he could
do nothing other than that. And so we have a
new chief of staff now, who is Morgan McSweeney or
Boatie mcboat face as he's almost certainly going to become known.
Who's an Irish guy who's been working with Starma for
(04:02):
a long time.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Right, So I'm watching Lord O'Donnell, who was the former
cabinet secretary, and you're looking for a cabinet secretary at
the Minment and that's a couple hundred thousand pounds a year, Ken,
and he's arguing you should get paid more because he,
subsequent to being the cabinet secretary has been he says,
paid a lot more to do a lot less. Do
you not run the risk if you don't pay people
properly that the only reason they're really there is for
the power or the authority or the ego, and not
(04:27):
actually for the money, because half decent people can earn
decent money elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Of course you do. And it's not just that, mate.
I mean, forgive me for defending Starma for a moment,
but you know, if you are supposedly the most powerful
man in the country, but you're being paid at the
level of the manager of Driffield City Council. You know,
(04:56):
then you are prone to the kindnesses of aids who
offer you a million pound apartment or an eighteen million
pound apartment and buy some clothes for your poor wife.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
The fact that we pay our elective politicians so little
comparatively is that it means that they are at risk
always of this kind of accusation that they're taking money
on the frame. And yet if you try to suggest
(05:31):
that the money should be raised, you know you will
hear it on question Time on the BBC. I've said
before on Question Time the MP should get more and
there will always be a nurse says I get.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Thirty four thousand pounds a year. You have to try
to explain to them, yes, well okay, and I'm sure
you do a great job, but this is the Prime Minister,
you know, this is an important job.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
I had a poll out this morning. I had a
poll out this morning on Starmer who is favorability and
favorability is now sitting at minus thirty five and this
resets on and they're looking at the norn don text
and the equity texts and the private penchingtech. How have
things gone so wrong so fast?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Because he's not very good? I think it's the first
thing to say. I mean, I think that does have
to be said that there never seemed to be any
driving force behind Starma other than the desire to win.
And he won on a very shallow basis. You know,
he didn't carry within the sorts of people which Tony
(06:35):
Blair carried with him in ninety seven, and still far
less that Margaret Tacha carried with her in seventy nine,
even though it's a comparable landslide. He is not very adept,
He is not very agile politically. There is no great
imagination about how to make this country better, which is
(06:56):
what we all rather hoped for. There are people within
his shadow, were within his cabinet, who suggests at a
degree of imagination, such as web streeting, for example. But
nonetheless this is a great managerial, boring labor regime and
(07:16):
people don't like it.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Always a pleasure, Mike. We'll catch up on Thursday. Rod
little out of Britain this morning. I wonder if there's
a see we had this discussion in this country didn't
we with the Adun government, they weren't really. They set
there for nine years, allegedly getting prepped up. When they arrived,
they didn't know what they were doing, so it was
endless working groups. We've seen the same with alban Ezi
in Australia. Small honeymoon, but now a disaster starmer hasn't
even lasted one hundred days. I wonder if there's a
(07:38):
connection for more from the Mic Asking Breakfast.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Listen live to news talks.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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