July 31, 2024 • 10 mins
When it comes to All Black legacies, Sam Whitelock has left one like few others.
A two-time World Cup winner, World Rugby Player of the Year, All Blacks Captain, as well as the record holder for the most ever caps by an All Black: 153.
This year he called it quits on his two year contract early, playing his final match for the French Club Pau against Fiji in June.
Whitelock managed to find time during his final season to write his autobiography: “View from the Second Row”.
Whitelock told Mike Hosking that he wasn't too keen on writing the book initially, but Wayne Smith won him over.
“He said to me, “What are you gonna give to your grandkids when, you know, your story fades a little bit, but you can give them this hardcopy and say, hey, this is what Grandad did.””
Rugby runs in his family, and the book reflects that.
“It’s not only my story, it’s the family story.”
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Samuel Whitelock story one of legend. The Farming family, who
have contributed all blacks through several generations, turned out to
be the most captive all time. Of course, one hundred
and fifty three of them ended up a two time
World Cup winner and World Rugby Player of the Year.
And of course Captain just ended his career in France
with Poe final ever. Actual game was for the bar
Bars the other day against Fiji. Now the whole story,
the autobiography view from the second row. Samuel Whitelock is
(00:24):
with us from Greece.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Very good morning, Yes, good morning. Right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let me, before I start talking about you, talk about
somebody else, Scott Robertson, who writes a very very nice
forward in the.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Book about you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Your observations of Scott so far as an all black coach,
and what you make of the man and the magic
he's brought to you and other players.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, Rais has been awesome for myself and not only
myself actually all three four sorry, all three brothers of mine.
And that's one of the reasons we want him to
write the foreword of my book, because he has a
great relations not just with myself but the whole family.
You know, it's Nom and Dad really well, grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunties,
(01:07):
so he probably understands us best in the social side.
But also the coaching study has had all of us
there and from what I've seen so far, and I've
seen the three games that he's been in charge, they've
got the job done and that's the main thing. He'll
be out there to win the first couple and get
settled into the new role that he has, and all
(01:31):
the other coaches and players of these feeling ex ext' same,
So it's pretty different. Yeah, another side of the world
with thirty five degrees watching a game of rugby becommends there,
especially that first one underneath and that look pretty cold.
So it's a different feeling for myself at the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, we should explain that you're sitting talking to us
from Greece. You are retired as you sit on your
balcony this morning. Do you feel complete and content?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yes? And no? I think you always be that part
of me. It'll say one more and you know, if
that phone d ring, I'd jump at it pretty quickly,
I think. But at the same time, here's my family
sitting on balcony looking out at Albania, sitting in the
Greek island, thirty five degrees today and I'm sweating as
it is in its eight o'clock at night. So it's
(02:20):
a pretty hard thing to go past.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
How did this all come about?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
How was Is there a moment or is it a
series of moments where you go this is it?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah? Yeah, there's a couple of times where I kind
of thought, you know, I've got to end there at
some stage otherwise someone will, for me being a coach,
saying hey, look, we're not going to slip through all this.
There's no contact going forward. And we had an opportunity
to fly over the side of the world and play
in France with my little brother, and I was really
(02:55):
enjoying my time at the club. But I just got
to a stage where I thought, I've got to be
sensible here. I could go another season, still feel like
I'm playing pretty good rugby, but just thought, hey, it's
time to actually prioritize the family and not rugby and
look forward to the next chapter of life. And we
know that rugby is going to be a part of it.
(03:16):
But what that looks like is exactly We're still working out.
So we're just trying to take a bit of time
at the moment, and we thought we'd enjoy some of
the summer over here rather than race back to the
cold southerly that our he has gone up the country.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So this era that you're in at the moment, this
unknown aspect of it, is it exhilarating or concerning or.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
What it's part of everything. It's new and different. We
are moving back to Hawk's Bay, to our fami there,
so we know what ninety percent of the time is
going to look like. We're going to be starting the
real world, the hard world, so he's going to be
heaps of things to do and things to keep my
(03:59):
teeth back into. But at the same time, it's going
to be completely different to playing professional rugby and setting
around the world and staying at these splash hotels and
playing in front of sold out crowds. So it's going
to be challenging and different, and there's a whole lot
of different emotions that go with it. The excitement, the
nerves is one can imagine changing jobs and changing we
(04:22):
are living. Obviously, the support networth is one thing, but
the best thing about rugby is no matter where you go.
You've always got great mates that are there somewhere and
they'll look after you if you need.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Listen just quickly back to Scott Robson. He talks a
lot about You've referenced that you know your family, the
tradition and all the rural community. Do you think, given
that you're part of it, how it shaped you? But
if you think that you know that tradition between the
All Blacks and the magic of the key we combination
of rural New Zealand and type family, the all Blacks connection,
do you reckon that served you exceedingly?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, there was one thing that I had to kind
of open up about a little bit more in the book.
And Dylan Cleaver, who helped write it, he wrote and
I did the interviews. He was outstanding. He did his
homework and understood that their farming runs through our family.
I think all my aunts and uncles are farmers. But
(05:18):
then also understood the rugby side of it. Rugby has
always been the side and side with farming. So he
went through and talked around my uncle was an All Black,
to talk about my grandfather that was an All Black,
my brothers that have played for All blacks on New
Zealand and sevens talked around what it's like growing up
as a farming, mad rugby, mad household, four boys, no sisters,
(05:41):
how it was pretty rough at times, and it was
because we were probably a little bit naughty. But I
think that's why I decided to end up writing it
in the end, because at the start I wasn't too
teen and said no a couple of times. But as
actually Wayne Smith said to me, what are you going
to get to your grandkids when you know your story
(06:01):
fade a little bit, But you can give them this
hard copy and say, hey, this is what granddad did
hopefully in time and say this was part of our
life that was pretty amazing. But it's not really my
sort's the family story.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
What's your observation on families and excellence? Like the Barretts,
if you are born into a family, can you achieve
excellence at athletic pursuit if you simply try?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Or is it genetic? Do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think there's a generic part of it. Obviously, if
you want to be a basketball fire in your five
feet tall to think you might be a bit tricky.
But I think families and this is my experience with
our families, it's the standards that you keep at home,
and whether that's making your bed in the morning, whether
that's fming the door for a grandmother to walk through first.
(06:54):
Those little things, those subconscious things, they shine out when
you're under pressure on a football field. And I think
that's ninety of it is the family you're born into.
But at the same time, it's not just family. It's
also your five or six y snakes. And I know
for myself, I talk about in the book a little bit.
(07:14):
I got into a bit of trouble at school, but
then fell in love with basketball, and the five guys
that were playing basketball were awesome guys, and they helped
me get out of that a little bit of trouble
and fell in love with another game, and it definitely
helped me down the rugby pathways a few years later.
So family is definitely part of it. Jimmyricks is another
(07:35):
part that your five us snakes is definitely clear in
my mind.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I wonder also, I think about your career because I
followed the whole thing, But I wonder if you came
along you were lucky, you came along at the right
time in the sense that rugby has transformed itself in
the most remarkable way during your career, whether it be professionalism,
the money, the opportunities, the health, the fitness, the dietary requirements.
I mean it's a different game from when your dad
(08:00):
or granddad played.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, it's completely that. Even sitting with some of the
young guys at the last couple of years and an
old game comes on and looking at the scrum, the
scrum's completely different now and they all ask and oh,
you used to play there, and you know you joke
here and you know I missed Jonah Bye. I think
it was one or two seasons. And thenone goes, oh,
you're really old now, and yeah, a few grave years
(08:24):
coming in slowly. But it just shows it's always evolving,
it's always growing, and I think that's the best thing
about sport in general. People always trying new things. And
I think of the Kiwi way, the number eight. Why
we're always coming up with a new idea of doing
something different, and I think that's the cool thing to
(08:45):
be a part of them. I think you nailed it.
I've had an outstanding introduction to the sport. The guys
that set me up, the brand Thorns of the world
just passed on all their knowledge and said, hey, look
this is what I did. This what worked for me.
If you want to take it, great if you don't.
At school as well, and I just grab it with
(09:05):
two hands and just try to keep the nose clean
and keep stuck in. And it's amazing how quickly your
regular career finishes.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Actually, there's a very nice piece of advice in the
book from you to current players, because you say you
talk more about players who are past as opposed to
players who are current because you don't want to talk
them up too much. But what a wonderful piece of advice.
It's over before you realize.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Isn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, it is. I remember sitting there talking to the
brad Thorns of the world, and Thorny was a massive
influence on me. But like he had four kids, I
was twenty one, playing for All Blacks, playing alongside them
with a whole other all black locks, and he keep
grumming it into Owen Franks myself saying, look, you guys
(09:53):
can play team plus years if you want, but it
will go so quick. Enjoy the whole journey. And something
that I'm reinforcing insane people now because it honestly feels
like I've blinked and my whole career is done. Doesn't
mean that Luggy's funished. That means it's just going to
look different, whether it's some coaching staff from mentoring or
(10:13):
even just seen as total fan. And that's what we're
enjoying at the moment, tuning in early in the morning
over here and doing what we used to do as kids,
and my kids are doing the same now for they're
getting up and watching some of these awesome players get
out there and compete against some other teams around the world.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, we've enjoyed it. I hope you've enjoyed it. The
book's fantastic. Lovely to catch up with you and have
the best time in Greece.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Thanks Mite.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Samuel Whitelocke view from the second row Dad's Day Gift
or was that two six us? These days could be
for anybody but now of us?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Just a thought. I was just thinking Dad's Day Gift
from outside you Anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That book is out as of today. For more from
the Mic Asking Breakfast listen live to news talks it'd
be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
Samuel Whitelock story one of legend. The Farming family, who
have contributed all blacks through several generations, turned out to
be the most captive all time. Of course, one hundred
and fifty three of them ended up a two time
World Cup winner and World Rugby Player of the Year.
And of course Captain just ended his career in France
with Poe final ever. Actual game was for the bar
Bars the other day against Fiji. Now the whole story,
the autobiography view from the second row. Samuel Whitelock is
(00:24):
with us from Greece.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Very good morning, Yes, good morning. Right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let me, before I start talking about you, talk about
somebody else, Scott Robertson, who writes a very very nice
forward in the.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Book about you.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Your observations of Scott so far as an all black coach,
and what you make of the man and the magic
he's brought to you and other players.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Yeah, Rais has been awesome for myself and not only
myself actually all three four sorry, all three brothers of mine.
And that's one of the reasons we want him to
write the foreword of my book, because he has a
great relations not just with myself but the whole family.
You know, it's Nom and Dad really well, grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunties,
(01:07):
so he probably understands us best in the social side.
But also the coaching study has had all of us
there and from what I've seen so far, and I've
seen the three games that he's been in charge, they've
got the job done and that's the main thing. He'll
be out there to win the first couple and get
settled into the new role that he has, and all
(01:31):
the other coaches and players of these feeling ex ext' same,
So it's pretty different. Yeah, another side of the world
with thirty five degrees watching a game of rugby becommends there,
especially that first one underneath and that look pretty cold.
So it's a different feeling for myself at the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, we should explain that you're sitting talking to us
from Greece. You are retired as you sit on your
balcony this morning. Do you feel complete and content?
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yes? And no? I think you always be that part
of me. It'll say one more and you know, if
that phone d ring, I'd jump at it pretty quickly,
I think. But at the same time, here's my family
sitting on balcony looking out at Albania, sitting in the
Greek island, thirty five degrees today and I'm sweating as
it is in its eight o'clock at night. So it's
(02:20):
a pretty hard thing to go past.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
How did this all come about?
Speaker 1 (02:24):
How was Is there a moment or is it a
series of moments where you go this is it?
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Yeah? Yeah, there's a couple of times where I kind
of thought, you know, I've got to end there at
some stage otherwise someone will, for me being a coach,
saying hey, look, we're not going to slip through all this.
There's no contact going forward. And we had an opportunity
to fly over the side of the world and play
in France with my little brother, and I was really
(02:55):
enjoying my time at the club. But I just got
to a stage where I thought, I've got to be
sensible here. I could go another season, still feel like
I'm playing pretty good rugby, but just thought, hey, it's
time to actually prioritize the family and not rugby and
look forward to the next chapter of life. And we
know that rugby is going to be a part of it.
(03:16):
But what that looks like is exactly We're still working out.
So we're just trying to take a bit of time
at the moment, and we thought we'd enjoy some of
the summer over here rather than race back to the
cold southerly that our he has gone up the country.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
So this era that you're in at the moment, this
unknown aspect of it, is it exhilarating or concerning or.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
What it's part of everything. It's new and different. We
are moving back to Hawk's Bay, to our fami there,
so we know what ninety percent of the time is
going to look like. We're going to be starting the
real world, the hard world, so he's going to be
heaps of things to do and things to keep my
(03:59):
teeth back into. But at the same time, it's going
to be completely different to playing professional rugby and setting
around the world and staying at these splash hotels and
playing in front of sold out crowds. So it's going
to be challenging and different, and there's a whole lot
of different emotions that go with it. The excitement, the
nerves is one can imagine changing jobs and changing we
(04:22):
are living. Obviously, the support networth is one thing, but
the best thing about rugby is no matter where you go.
You've always got great mates that are there somewhere and
they'll look after you if you need.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Listen.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Listen just quickly back to Scott Robson. He talks a
lot about You've referenced that you know your family, the
tradition and all the rural community. Do you think, given
that you're part of it, how it shaped you? But
if you think that you know that tradition between the
All Blacks and the magic of the key we combination
of rural New Zealand and type family, the all Blacks connection,
do you reckon that served you exceedingly?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, there was one thing that I had to kind
of open up about a little bit more in the book.
And Dylan Cleaver, who helped write it, he wrote and
I did the interviews. He was outstanding. He did his
homework and understood that their farming runs through our family.
I think all my aunts and uncles are farmers. But
(05:18):
then also understood the rugby side of it. Rugby has
always been the side and side with farming. So he
went through and talked around my uncle was an All Black,
to talk about my grandfather that was an All Black,
my brothers that have played for All blacks on New
Zealand and sevens talked around what it's like growing up
as a farming, mad rugby, mad household, four boys, no sisters,
(05:41):
how it was pretty rough at times, and it was
because we were probably a little bit naughty. But I
think that's why I decided to end up writing it
in the end, because at the start I wasn't too
teen and said no a couple of times. But as
actually Wayne Smith said to me, what are you going
to get to your grandkids when you know your story
(06:01):
fade a little bit, But you can give them this
hard copy and say, hey, this is what granddad did
hopefully in time and say this was part of our
life that was pretty amazing. But it's not really my
sort's the family story.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Now.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
What's your observation on families and excellence? Like the Barretts,
if you are born into a family, can you achieve
excellence at athletic pursuit if you simply try?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Or is it genetic? Do you reckon?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think there's a generic part of it. Obviously, if
you want to be a basketball fire in your five
feet tall to think you might be a bit tricky.
But I think families and this is my experience with
our families, it's the standards that you keep at home,
and whether that's making your bed in the morning, whether
that's fming the door for a grandmother to walk through first.
(06:54):
Those little things, those subconscious things, they shine out when
you're under pressure on a football field. And I think
that's ninety of it is the family you're born into.
But at the same time, it's not just family. It's
also your five or six y snakes. And I know
for myself, I talk about in the book a little bit.
(07:14):
I got into a bit of trouble at school, but
then fell in love with basketball, and the five guys
that were playing basketball were awesome guys, and they helped
me get out of that a little bit of trouble
and fell in love with another game, and it definitely
helped me down the rugby pathways a few years later.
So family is definitely part of it. Jimmyricks is another
(07:35):
part that your five us snakes is definitely clear in
my mind.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
I wonder also, I think about your career because I
followed the whole thing, But I wonder if you came
along you were lucky, you came along at the right
time in the sense that rugby has transformed itself in
the most remarkable way during your career, whether it be professionalism,
the money, the opportunities, the health, the fitness, the dietary requirements.
I mean it's a different game from when your dad
(08:00):
or granddad played.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, it's completely that. Even sitting with some of the
young guys at the last couple of years and an
old game comes on and looking at the scrum, the
scrum's completely different now and they all ask and oh,
you used to play there, and you know you joke
here and you know I missed Jonah Bye. I think
it was one or two seasons. And thenone goes, oh,
you're really old now, and yeah, a few grave years
(08:24):
coming in slowly. But it just shows it's always evolving,
it's always growing, and I think that's the best thing
about sport in general. People always trying new things. And
I think of the Kiwi way, the number eight. Why
we're always coming up with a new idea of doing
something different, and I think that's the cool thing to
(08:45):
be a part of them. I think you nailed it.
I've had an outstanding introduction to the sport. The guys
that set me up, the brand Thorns of the world
just passed on all their knowledge and said, hey, look
this is what I did. This what worked for me.
If you want to take it, great if you don't.
At school as well, and I just grab it with
(09:05):
two hands and just try to keep the nose clean
and keep stuck in. And it's amazing how quickly your
regular career finishes.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Actually, there's a very nice piece of advice in the
book from you to current players, because you say you
talk more about players who are past as opposed to
players who are current because you don't want to talk
them up too much. But what a wonderful piece of advice.
It's over before you realize.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Isn't it.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, it is. I remember sitting there talking to the
brad Thorns of the world, and Thorny was a massive
influence on me. But like he had four kids, I
was twenty one, playing for All Blacks, playing alongside them
with a whole other all black locks, and he keep
grumming it into Owen Franks myself saying, look, you guys
(09:53):
can play team plus years if you want, but it
will go so quick. Enjoy the whole journey. And something
that I'm reinforcing insane people now because it honestly feels
like I've blinked and my whole career is done. Doesn't
mean that Luggy's funished. That means it's just going to
look different, whether it's some coaching staff from mentoring or
(10:13):
even just seen as total fan. And that's what we're
enjoying at the moment, tuning in early in the morning
over here and doing what we used to do as kids,
and my kids are doing the same now for they're
getting up and watching some of these awesome players get
out there and compete against some other teams around the world.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Good stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, we've enjoyed it. I hope you've enjoyed it. The
book's fantastic. Lovely to catch up with you and have
the best time in Greece.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Thanks Mite.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Samuel Whitelocke view from the second row Dad's Day Gift
or was that two six us? These days could be
for anybody but now of us?
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Just a thought. I was just thinking Dad's Day Gift
from outside you Anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
That book is out as of today. For more from
the Mic Asking Breakfast listen live to news talks it'd
be from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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