Shane Jones: Resources Minister on the draft strategy for doubling geothermal energy production

The Resources Minister says New Zealand's missed a trick with geothermal energy. 

Shane Jones' draft strategy lays out a goal of doubling its production by 2040. 

He says we should have begun investment seven years ago, when we banned oil and gas exploration. 

Jones told Mike Hosking we have some great expertise on geothermal energy that we should be harnessing. 

He says Indonesia and other areas are investing in this, and our New Zealanders are more highly regarded there, than here. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So big week. As I mentioned before, the news for
the government on the power front, they're reversing that oil
and gas band. They're also launching and have launched the
draft plan for geothermal ideas double our output for electricity
and heating by twenty forty. Shane Jones as the Minister
of Resources, of course, and is with us. Very good
morning to you, Hey, Morni Mike Tahara opened last year.
Of course, have we let and that's really all we've

(00:21):
got apart from the original one. Have we let geothermal
slip a little bit under the radar over the years.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yes, it's nigh on twenty percent of our electricity, but
we missed a trick, mate. And what I've tried to
do with the strategy, which is going to be completed
after September, is move away from these lanky, featherweight ambitions
which seems to afflict New Zealand industry and our development nowadays.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
How big is the risk of the punt in going
to have a look for it?

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, on the question of the deep seated supercritical energy,
you're right the sixty million we've allocated, it's never been
done anywhere else in the world. But the expert tell me.
If it can be done anywhere, it'll be in New Zealand.
It's close to the magma, but it'll completely rewrite the
character in the mix of our energy in New Zealand.
But I'm not going to pretend that it's a quick fix.

(01:10):
I'd rather focus on energy reforms that's coming soon to
kick that goal.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Have we got the expertise in this country to do
ale this?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Mate? Twenty eight percent over the last four years of
all geothermal investment has happened globally here in New Zealand, Philippines, Indonesia,
a variety of other places. The conference that I'm at
here in topol Our, New Zealanders are selling those services.

(01:40):
They're more highly regarded over there, and then sadly they
are here. And that's a deeper problem with our New
Zealand culture.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Where does the ETS fit into.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
All of this? Well? Obviously, ETS is an imposition on
all costs associated with electricity, and the extent to which
it remains will be dealt to no doubt through the
next election. There's no intention at this stage to exempt
energy from the ETS, but there are some emissions associated

(02:12):
with geothermal that have to pay an ETS tax.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, is the government involved in this? I mean, are
you the oil and gas thing, the two hundred million
dollars that you can take a stake in with some
of the people trying to bring them back to the country.
Are we going to be involved in this as well?

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Now you ask a deep question if you want if
not you personally, if you and I want an accelerated
transition to a higher threshold of wealth, do you want
the government to stand back and sort of barrack from
the sidelines, or do you want it to get down
and dirty take a risk. Some things won't work, some
things were like we're doing with the oil and gas,
like I've done with the deep seated geothermal energy. And

(02:51):
I'm a sort of politician at the government, but it
really wants on behalf of society to accelerate an industrial transition,
and it's going to help with the cost. Were you
going to end up with the industrialization? For example?

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Are you hopeful, given next year's election year, that you
can put enough of this in place that won't be
flipped again?

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, I don't think. I think where the flipping threat
lies is with the fossil fuels, which, as you know,
I'm an apostle of but I with geo thermal energy,
this widespread response. You know, the trick that we missed
is after Jacinda, that political fugitive from electoral justice, she
canceled the oil and gas industry. They should have immediately

(03:31):
invested in geothermal energy six seven years ago and then
we'd had the flow to cover off the shortage.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Now that's true. Do you think I was just thinking
before the news of all the things the last government,
did you, I think the oil and gas turning the
tap off, that announcement in Taranaki, that was probably the
most egregious of all the decisions. And if it isn't
it to be right up there, wuldn't it?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah? I mean a lot of what I'm doing at
the moment as an active penance, I don't walk away
from the fact that I acquiesced but it as a
minority part. But I can think of no single decision
that has had a more destructive impact on energy policy
that means economic policy, that means the productivity of a
nation than just Sender canceling the oil and gas industry.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
All right, nice to talk Jane Jones, who's the Minister
for Resources.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
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