Steve Symon: Transnational Crime advisory panel chair on the need for urgent action to prevent corruption

New Zealand's heading down a precarious road of corruption, with organised crime networks targeting our institutions and borders.  

An independent advisory panel on Transnational Crime says we need to take urgent action.  

It says police officers, immigration officials, and private sector employees are facilitating corruption.  

Group chair Steve Symon told Mike Hosking they talked to senior officials in enforcement agencies, former gang members, and frontline staff.  

He says the problem with organised crime is it's everywhere you look, and it's seeping into all areas of business which deal with potential for drugs coming into the country.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You report from the Ministerial Advisory Group on Organized Crime.
This is the third one. Turns out we're not as
free of corruption as we might think. There's a warning
around bribery and coercion of police and immigration officials. Now
Steve Simon of Courses, the chair of this Ministerial Advisory Group,
and he's back with us.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Morning, Good morning to you mate.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
This growing body of evidence quote unquote that you find,
what is it?

Speaker 2 (00:21):
It's from everywhere. What we're seeing is talking to the
most senior officials in our government enforcement agencies. We're talking
to former gang members, we're talking to frontline staff. Everywhere
we look. We're seeing this problem of organized crime, and
we're seeing it seep into all areas of business which

(00:46):
deal with the potential for drugs coming into the country.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Are we a corrupt nation or is that going over
the top?

Speaker 2 (00:54):
We are a country that's become incorrupt. We were proudly
the number one country in the world in terms of
the least amount of corruption. We've dropped down to number four,
and we're unfortunately trending in the wrong direction. But more
than that, I think what we're seeing is we used
to be a country where I think we genuinely could

(01:14):
trust one another to keep up the values of our country,
and sadly, I think it's being eroded.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
When we use the word corruption, Are you sure of
what you're onto? In other words, when you talk to
an ext gang member and they're going to god knows
what they're going to say, So you're confident of what
you're discovering here that we are increasingly corrupt.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yes, If we talk to our most senior officials and
the police and customs and we ask them of the
large scale drug importations, of the large scale illegal tobacco importations,
how many of them involve a corrupt official? It is
by far the vast majority of those cases. Wow, the
organized crime could not work in New Zealand without the

(01:55):
benefit of corrupt insiders.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
Is it on the inside of the border? In other words,
I can see the port, the airport, I get all
of that. I see the Pacific, But beyond that, are
we corrupt internally? So to speak?

Speaker 2 (02:08):
It's a very good point, Mike. It starts at the border,
but we are now seeing it trending into immigration advisors,
into lawyers, into accountants, into police officials, and so what
we're seeing is it's starting to follow a trend which
we're seen in other countries around the world, where it
begins at your ports because it's the most valuable, and

(02:30):
then works into all levels of organization of our nation.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
These reports your third one, now that you're handing to
Minister Costello, her eyes bulging out of her head yet
or did she sort of know this anyway?

Speaker 2 (02:45):
A bit of both. I think for anyone, anyone who's
been doing this a long time, you expect the problem
to be bad. Minister Costell obviously had a long career
in the police and so she knows some of the
depth of the problem. But I think either for myself
as a prosecutor for two decades, even I'm surprised at

(03:06):
some of the stories we are hearing and the gravity
of the problem as it is now.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
All right, sobering, how good? Maybe on we'll get you
on for a reporting number four. Steve Simon, chair of
the Ministerial Advisory Group.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
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Speaker 1 (03:19):
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