February 6, 2025 • 11 mins
Foreign Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand's not the only one in the dark about a potential deal between the Cook Islands and China.
Cook Islands Prime Minister Mark Brown is heading to Beijing, where he's expected to sign a comprehensive strategic partnership.
He says it's part of a broader strategy to strengthen relations with all of its key partners and expand economic opportunities.
MFAT says it would have expected to be fully consulted on such a deal - but wasn't.
Winston Peters told Mike Hosking New Zealand's been blindsided, and we're not the only ones.
He says they've asked for information over a number of months, but it hasn't been shared with them or the Cook Island people.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Back to the Cooks and their big day out in
Beijing as they incad deal that seems to suggest China's
making major inroads into the Pacific. The issue this time
we appear to be out of the loop on this.
And further, if you saw Cooks PM Mark Brown last night,
he's suggesting the Cooks pay us, not the other way around.
So how does all this work? Foreign Minister Winston Peters
is what this very good morning to you? Good morning
(00:21):
on a scale of one to ten, ten year apoplectic?
How aggrieved are you?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh? Well, I wouldn't like to put it that way.
It's just a simple fact that since nineteen oh one
and we've had this special constrasual relationship. It was further
enhanced with the Helen Clark Prime Minister Malite two thousand
and one agreement, and out of left field this has happened,
first of all in a demand to have a separate sport,
(00:49):
so to speak, which would be dramatic in terms about
constitutional arrangements, and also the upcoming visit to China which
has come on the back of this, which is blindsighted
both the Cook Island people and ourselves. We have asked
over a number of months and did time for and
the chronology of evidence is there for that for information
(01:11):
and as we have found out, it has not been
shared with us all the cook and people. So that's
where things stand.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So is this a Mark Brown thing or a Cook's thing?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, not much have personalized this, but a few on
the receiving end. As we are and as I am
numerous aquitists. What's going on when the answer lies in
the Cook Islands and when the Cookarden, cookarens and news
are recent articles have been asking for that and not
getting answers, then the answers lie elsewhere as to what's
exactly going on. However, in any reason we have the
(01:44):
Cook Gardens people will be talking to all the people
both in the Cook Gardens and the Cook Garlands abroad
as to what they want and whether this is what
they agree to.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Brown was on the news last night saying you've been
talking for ages. It's just he was disappointed at got leaked.
Have you been talking for ages? Do you know this
was coming or not?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, we've been talking for ages and we have made
sure that we had written it to put it in
record record for a long time. As to the answers
to these questions and to frame us being disappointed at
the conversation not working is not something I could possibly
agree with, nor could I possibly agree with. The economic
statement was made last night that a billion dollars coming
(02:24):
to Cogan so US and peanuts are going back. I mean,
this is well extraordinary in the extreme.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Did he make that up? I mean where does he
get a billion dollars from?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I've got no idea.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What would your numbers be? Do we give them sixty million?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well? That and much more and over the years, I
mean we were on a long way back underwriting the amies.
You'll travel to Coogans to and answer their tourism. All
these things are huge. We put an over well our
sure fortunately into fixing up the water system there that
(03:03):
we were in tandem with China working on, and every
part of their work had failed massively. I raised this
with four months of long year, A long long time ago.
He told me you'd get it fixed up. And now
these are things that are going to be out in
the ether very shortly. If this comes down to a
dispute us of what's happened, And sadly that should not
be the case. We've had this special relationship and I
(03:25):
believe the mass majority of Cook Islanders wanted to go on.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Actually that water is a good example. So it was
you was China, and it was the Cook Islands is
are we blaying the oude of proportion? So they signed
a deal with China. So what we like China, we
do business with China was really an issue.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It was an issue to the extent that a number
of the constructions where the Chinese were involved in the
Cook Islands have simply failed. Some have failed within ten years.
So I raised all these with so far and so
one a long long time ago, and he said he'd
get them fixed up. Now, I don't want to go
over those things because we've had text the water system
(04:01):
up largely, but not in the way we wanted to
do it, not within the speed we want to do it,
and it's part greater cost because of the faulting construction
on their part. Now these are facts, but the reality
is that the Cook Owned people, as them is by
the news and all the requires they're making, just don't
know what's going on. And I am my government and
our government are constitutionally required to ensure we talk to them,
(04:24):
to ensure that we on the behalf of the usual
taxpayers know exactly what's going on, so that we're accountable
to zion taxpayer. It's their money, after all. Do not
against We're not against the soundness of our aid programs.
But our job is to monitor every dollar and make
sure it gets to west meant to go and for
the right purpose.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Is this Chinese creep? Do you worry about it? And
do you think Trump will worry about it?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Lord, I can't as for President Trump or the American people.
That I have to answer for the human people to
ensure that our purpose is corrected. Chase is pure, and
we do what we say we're going to do. And
that's been our long long record, regardless of plitical parties,
has been our long record. And here's the point that
Cook and people are entitled to know, and we are
(05:12):
trapped by our need to ensure that they know and
agree with what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I remember talking to you in twenty seventeen when you
did the one billion dollars when you anointed Jacindra doing
to run the place, so you hand a billion dollars
in Your argument at the time was we need to
be better or more present than the Pacific. We haven't
been as good as we could be, and I said
checkbooks will win out. At the end of the day,
checkbooks have won, haven't they. That's what this boils down to.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
No, I do not believes. I believe that. But all
these other things about the leafs, principal freedom, human rights,
these are fundamentals that the Gogoleans people are also concerned
about as they are around the Pacific. They need to
know what's happening here and as a consequence with they
make their decisions, then they should be free to make it.
But they have should be free to make it in
the circumstances of the commitments that we made, going back
(05:59):
to Helen clap time and going back to nine o
one where we discuss and consult. That's where we are now.
I can assure you that the Resum government has done
its best to find out what's going on. And just
said this has been discussed with us is absurdly not true.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, a couple of things, while I've got you are unrah.
So Trump pulls the money over the weekend or this week.
I talked to the Prime Minister. He didn't know anything
about it. But there was a hostage that was British
Israeli hostage was released. Talk to Starmer on the phone.
She said she was kept at UNRA facilities by Hamas.
Why are we still funding them?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Will you recall I stopped the funding to Honor at
the time of the nations inquiry as to what was
going on and our reconfiguration of our next payment's not
you yet and that's where things are. But this information
is something that will be of intense and quir protected
by Western nations because the proximity to armas and to
(07:00):
owner operations means they had to know. So, yes, this
is a new question. The next we're going to find
out what's going on before we commit one more dollar.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Good are you suspicious?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, you know you'd be irresponsible on the extreme not
to be seeing information, hearing information and asking yourself what
is going on here? And how can I face these
younger people if I don't make the right standard? What's right?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Exactly? Good? Just and then we come to foreign home ownership,
can you answer me this question? Just for you will
be aware that the real estate institute, or not the
real estate the real estate industry in this country is
a wash with stories that you've been talked across the
line in some way, shape or form to be able
to have foreigners come back into the real estate market
and start buying some expensive houses maybe five or six million.
(07:48):
Is that true or is that not true?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's the asking. So rumors are rumors that I was
the one that said when National announced in twenty twenty
three that they were going to go for the two
million dollar house sale numbers, that their figures were massively faulty.
But they didn't work and they wouldn't bring the money
that they should bring. But if you're talking about and
this has always been Resum first time, if somebody is
(08:14):
coming to this country like they do to other countries,
bringing you fifty million dollars to invest in a huge
industry and to ensure that we've got employed with this
non employment now potential exports with this exportsion area, now,
then we will look at it. Certainly, that's always been
our view because that means you've got a serious investor
committed to the Zum economy and not just a bolt
hole in case they want to coming in one day.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Good is that going to be made official and articulated
from a government's point of view.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, these are things that are work in progress, because
we're going to have to construct an economy which answered
the question why invest in New Zealand? And that has
to be detail and specific and we're not selling ourselves out.
If you're investing in New Zealand and you're going to
build the mass apartment on our economy, if her ownership,
(09:02):
why should do that is part of it? That wouldn't
do to be automatic. No, but let's see the details first.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, that's one. That's what I couldn't understand. You're out
in the world as foreign minister, by all accounts, seemingly
doing a very good job, and we've got an economy
that's stuck and we need help. And if an American
comes in and he's got ideas and he wants to expand,
he wants to grow, and he wants to employ some people.
He also wants to live here, he should be able to.
And if he can go to Lake Hayes and spend
nine million dollars on the house, what's the problem.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Look, I was down at the conference to Deceive a
year ago talking about a one hundred billion dollar future fund.
I'm trying to answer the question that needs to be
answered by his imparterns. Yes, but whine is you? And
there's many options of God and answered to whine is
youon has be laid out very clearly and make us
country an attractive place to invest in and your pipe blod.
(09:50):
But do you remember the case of Peter Teel. Yes,
Peter Teale got his old citizenhip from John te within
six days. And he's not an oven by a house.
What else is he invested. I'm not criticizing him. I'm
just saying that the National Pay at that time had
no foreign hold on.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I mean, I don't want to get bogged down on
this because amount of time. But what he wanted to
do is build a lodge and the Council prevented him
from building a lodge.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, the National Party's job then was to ensure that
the Council didn't have the authorities stop that sort of development.
That's what case law means.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Look, Look, you and I I hope we're on the
same page. We need to get this economy moving and
fast and if we need to do everything we can
to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Look, I agree with his rubb. I know it personally
because of private conversations specifically aimed at me that we
we are people and interests seriously with the money to
start yesterday. We have to frame our country's policies wisely,
like Ireland, like Croatias, doing like a rocket now like
Singapore did, and it makes some sense for these young people.
(10:54):
We've got the asset, we've got the people. We just
heaven't got the structural framework that should have been so
pained us a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Appreciate your time as all West Winston paid as Foreign Minister.
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
News Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
Back to the Cooks and their big day out in
Beijing as they incad deal that seems to suggest China's
making major inroads into the Pacific. The issue this time
we appear to be out of the loop on this.
And further, if you saw Cooks PM Mark Brown last night,
he's suggesting the Cooks pay us, not the other way around.
So how does all this work? Foreign Minister Winston Peters
is what this very good morning to you? Good morning
(00:21):
on a scale of one to ten, ten year apoplectic?
How aggrieved are you?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Oh? Well, I wouldn't like to put it that way.
It's just a simple fact that since nineteen oh one
and we've had this special constrasual relationship. It was further
enhanced with the Helen Clark Prime Minister Malite two thousand
and one agreement, and out of left field this has happened,
first of all in a demand to have a separate sport,
(00:49):
so to speak, which would be dramatic in terms about
constitutional arrangements, and also the upcoming visit to China which
has come on the back of this, which is blindsighted
both the Cook Island people and ourselves. We have asked
over a number of months and did time for and
the chronology of evidence is there for that for information
(01:11):
and as we have found out, it has not been
shared with us all the cook and people. So that's
where things stand.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So is this a Mark Brown thing or a Cook's thing?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well, not much have personalized this, but a few on
the receiving end. As we are and as I am
numerous aquitists. What's going on when the answer lies in
the Cook Islands and when the Cookarden, cookarens and news
are recent articles have been asking for that and not
getting answers, then the answers lie elsewhere as to what's
exactly going on. However, in any reason we have the
(01:44):
Cook Gardens people will be talking to all the people
both in the Cook Gardens and the Cook Garlands abroad
as to what they want and whether this is what
they agree to.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Brown was on the news last night saying you've been
talking for ages. It's just he was disappointed at got leaked.
Have you been talking for ages? Do you know this
was coming or not?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Well, we've been talking for ages and we have made
sure that we had written it to put it in
record record for a long time. As to the answers
to these questions and to frame us being disappointed at
the conversation not working is not something I could possibly
agree with, nor could I possibly agree with. The economic
statement was made last night that a billion dollars coming
(02:24):
to Cogan so US and peanuts are going back. I mean,
this is well extraordinary in the extreme.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Did he make that up? I mean where does he
get a billion dollars from?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I've got no idea.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
What would your numbers be? Do we give them sixty million?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well? That and much more and over the years, I
mean we were on a long way back underwriting the amies.
You'll travel to Coogans to and answer their tourism. All
these things are huge. We put an over well our
sure fortunately into fixing up the water system there that
(03:03):
we were in tandem with China working on, and every
part of their work had failed massively. I raised this
with four months of long year, A long long time ago.
He told me you'd get it fixed up. And now
these are things that are going to be out in
the ether very shortly. If this comes down to a
dispute us of what's happened, And sadly that should not
be the case. We've had this special relationship and I
(03:25):
believe the mass majority of Cook Islanders wanted to go on.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Actually that water is a good example. So it was
you was China, and it was the Cook Islands is
are we blaying the oude of proportion? So they signed
a deal with China. So what we like China, we
do business with China was really an issue.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
It was an issue to the extent that a number
of the constructions where the Chinese were involved in the
Cook Islands have simply failed. Some have failed within ten years.
So I raised all these with so far and so
one a long long time ago, and he said he'd
get them fixed up. Now, I don't want to go
over those things because we've had text the water system
(04:01):
up largely, but not in the way we wanted to
do it, not within the speed we want to do it,
and it's part greater cost because of the faulting construction
on their part. Now these are facts, but the reality
is that the Cook Owned people, as them is by
the news and all the requires they're making, just don't
know what's going on. And I am my government and
our government are constitutionally required to ensure we talk to them,
(04:24):
to ensure that we on the behalf of the usual
taxpayers know exactly what's going on, so that we're accountable
to zion taxpayer. It's their money, after all. Do not
against We're not against the soundness of our aid programs.
But our job is to monitor every dollar and make
sure it gets to west meant to go and for
the right purpose.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Is this Chinese creep? Do you worry about it? And
do you think Trump will worry about it?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Lord, I can't as for President Trump or the American people.
That I have to answer for the human people to
ensure that our purpose is corrected. Chase is pure, and
we do what we say we're going to do. And
that's been our long long record, regardless of plitical parties,
has been our long record. And here's the point that
Cook and people are entitled to know, and we are
(05:12):
trapped by our need to ensure that they know and
agree with what's going on.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I remember talking to you in twenty seventeen when you
did the one billion dollars when you anointed Jacindra doing
to run the place, so you hand a billion dollars
in Your argument at the time was we need to
be better or more present than the Pacific. We haven't
been as good as we could be, and I said
checkbooks will win out. At the end of the day,
checkbooks have won, haven't they. That's what this boils down to.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
No, I do not believes. I believe that. But all
these other things about the leafs, principal freedom, human rights,
these are fundamentals that the Gogoleans people are also concerned
about as they are around the Pacific. They need to
know what's happening here and as a consequence with they
make their decisions, then they should be free to make it.
But they have should be free to make it in
the circumstances of the commitments that we made, going back
(05:59):
to Helen clap time and going back to nine o
one where we discuss and consult. That's where we are now.
I can assure you that the Resum government has done
its best to find out what's going on. And just
said this has been discussed with us is absurdly not true.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, a couple of things, while I've got you are unrah.
So Trump pulls the money over the weekend or this week.
I talked to the Prime Minister. He didn't know anything
about it. But there was a hostage that was British
Israeli hostage was released. Talk to Starmer on the phone.
She said she was kept at UNRA facilities by Hamas.
Why are we still funding them?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Will you recall I stopped the funding to Honor at
the time of the nations inquiry as to what was
going on and our reconfiguration of our next payment's not
you yet and that's where things are. But this information
is something that will be of intense and quir protected
by Western nations because the proximity to armas and to
(07:00):
owner operations means they had to know. So, yes, this
is a new question. The next we're going to find
out what's going on before we commit one more dollar.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Good are you suspicious?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, you know you'd be irresponsible on the extreme not
to be seeing information, hearing information and asking yourself what
is going on here? And how can I face these
younger people if I don't make the right standard? What's right?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Exactly? Good? Just and then we come to foreign home ownership,
can you answer me this question? Just for you will
be aware that the real estate institute, or not the
real estate the real estate industry in this country is
a wash with stories that you've been talked across the
line in some way, shape or form to be able
to have foreigners come back into the real estate market
and start buying some expensive houses maybe five or six million.
(07:48):
Is that true or is that not true?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
That's the asking. So rumors are rumors that I was
the one that said when National announced in twenty twenty
three that they were going to go for the two
million dollar house sale numbers, that their figures were massively faulty.
But they didn't work and they wouldn't bring the money
that they should bring. But if you're talking about and
this has always been Resum first time, if somebody is
(08:14):
coming to this country like they do to other countries,
bringing you fifty million dollars to invest in a huge
industry and to ensure that we've got employed with this
non employment now potential exports with this exportsion area, now,
then we will look at it. Certainly, that's always been
our view because that means you've got a serious investor
committed to the Zum economy and not just a bolt
hole in case they want to coming in one day.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Good is that going to be made official and articulated
from a government's point of view.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Well, these are things that are work in progress, because
we're going to have to construct an economy which answered
the question why invest in New Zealand? And that has
to be detail and specific and we're not selling ourselves out.
If you're investing in New Zealand and you're going to
build the mass apartment on our economy, if her ownership,
(09:02):
why should do that is part of it? That wouldn't
do to be automatic. No, but let's see the details first.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, that's one. That's what I couldn't understand. You're out
in the world as foreign minister, by all accounts, seemingly
doing a very good job, and we've got an economy
that's stuck and we need help. And if an American
comes in and he's got ideas and he wants to expand,
he wants to grow, and he wants to employ some people.
He also wants to live here, he should be able to.
And if he can go to Lake Hayes and spend
nine million dollars on the house, what's the problem.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Look, I was down at the conference to Deceive a
year ago talking about a one hundred billion dollar future fund.
I'm trying to answer the question that needs to be
answered by his imparterns. Yes, but whine is you? And
there's many options of God and answered to whine is
youon has be laid out very clearly and make us
country an attractive place to invest in and your pipe blod.
(09:50):
But do you remember the case of Peter Teel. Yes,
Peter Teale got his old citizenhip from John te within
six days. And he's not an oven by a house.
What else is he invested. I'm not criticizing him. I'm
just saying that the National Pay at that time had
no foreign hold on.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
I mean, I don't want to get bogged down on
this because amount of time. But what he wanted to
do is build a lodge and the Council prevented him
from building a lodge.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Well, the National Party's job then was to ensure that
the Council didn't have the authorities stop that sort of development.
That's what case law means.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Look, Look, you and I I hope we're on the
same page. We need to get this economy moving and
fast and if we need to do everything we can
to do that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Look, I agree with his rubb. I know it personally
because of private conversations specifically aimed at me that we
we are people and interests seriously with the money to
start yesterday. We have to frame our country's policies wisely,
like Ireland, like Croatias, doing like a rocket now like
Singapore did, and it makes some sense for these young people.
(10:54):
We've got the asset, we've got the people. We just
heaven't got the structural framework that should have been so
pained us a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Appreciate your time as all West Winston paid as Foreign Minister.
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
News Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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