March 4, 2025 • 8 mins
There’s push back on the cost of the Government's broken ferry deal.
Hyundai is back in the running to build the two new ships after the coalition canned its original contract in 2023.
Documents indicate the Government's set aside $300 million to cover that broken agreement.
It must be paid regardless of a new deal.
Rail Minister Winston Peters told Mike Hosking the issue's being considered in negotiations, but disputes the cost.
He says the real cost is far lower, and it's an appalling situation and shocking decision he's had to deal with.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
News on our belliegued ferry service. Official documents were released
yesterday that the canceled deal from December of twenty three
should have been renegotiated, perhaps more urgently. What we ended
up with was, of course, a new minister and a
promise that we're going to have some fine detail on
these new ships by the end of this month. The
Minister in chargeable of this is of course Winston Peters,
who is with us. Very good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
If I get time, I wouldn't mind touching on Raratonga
and China and those talks of yours. But as far
as March is concerned, by the end of March, just
to make this nice and clean and clear and quick,
by the end of March, you'll be able to tell
us basically who's doing it, what it costs, and what
we're buying. Is that fair or not?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, Jenny, seeing it's the three targets, we're going to
be able to announce who's in the game, what they're
printending for and what the costs will be.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Okay, and is that a timeline to get us the
new ships by the twenty nine target when the other
ones fall apart.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
That's definitely. Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, is Hyundai if they're in the mix and we
can cut a deal with them, does that negate some
of the break fee as part of the deal.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, that's an interesting way you put that question. But
when you're in the negotiations like that, that is the
deal that they are negotiating. With the exit deal with KiwiRail,
I'm starting off something new now. The first part of
the exit deal will have to be settled. But are
you asking me, is there a consideration for that exit
deal in terms of the new deal. I've been promised
(01:21):
that yes, So it's helpful. I said, it's appalling what
I've had to deal with because we've got people shouting
out three hundred million when it's way way less than that.
This other aspects sert what chut to do with the fairies,
but all too with a shocking decision. We started off
in May of twenty twenty, when I was a minister
then ordering two ferries for four hundred and one billion.
(01:44):
That's way less than half a billion. I come back
to find that the heading towards over four billion. Now heaven,
we had to stop it.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Having read the paperwork between Kiwi Rayle and Grant Robinson
as it was at the time. How the government did that?
I do and get on top of that was I
can't explain it. You will have read the letters. I'm
assuming ki Roll just keep coming back and going we
want more and we won't ask for more. Oh sorry,
well we need more, but we won't ask for more.
And so went on, how's that happen?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, it happens when you got people who couldn't run
the school. Touchhop, that's that bundles. But we're going in
the extreme.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Were you cognizant at the time. I don't want to
re litigate history, but when Robertson was running the place,
were you cognizant? This was going on with This was
post post twenty twenty, and you weren't part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It was post twenty twenty. I mean I left it
was four hundred and one billion, so half one one million, yeah,
for two ferries and one million listen that way, listen
an half a billion I've come back to find over
by Treasury's forecast four billion.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It was just a lolly scramble with no discipline from
the Minister, Finance of five, minister or anyone. And these
saying people sit in the house and tell you's there.
They couldrun a country. Look, it's as grace of what's
happening here, but this is just a repetitive example of
what they did over and over again.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Do you sit here talking to us this morning bullish
that ideal will be reached and a good one that
we can all be moderately speaking pleased with.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, the answer that is, we're going worldwide. We've gone
as far as finn in other parts of the world
for content, for tenders. We've got some Our entity that
was is the world's biggest shipbuilding company. Everybody told me
was out back in I've seen them. Cey Parking's are very,
very and esteem. It was an excellent conversation and they
understand that, you know, sometimes the mistakes are made. But
(03:36):
I did have to remind them. You know, in nineteen
fifty when they were in dere trouble, we sent our
soldiers there. When the Asian financial Christs happened in ninety seven,
we were in the one of nine countries underwrote their currency.
We've got a reason to be working with them, and
they are. They're in the right to shave in mind.
I think we can be confident we'll get the sorted
out good.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
As regards to China, and they're allowed to do what
they did because no laws were broken. Did they explain
to you in a way that you can explain to
us what led to that and why suddenly they decided
to do life fires without really letting anybody know.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, no, he didn't explain to me, but I made
it very clear that you know, when you've got a
relationship of which we claim to be proud, a lack
of notice, either from the government or the military is unacceptable.
That's not our so called friends should behave. I can
say that while we accepted that, and I also said
to the peace don't tell me that you're trying to
sort out whether the trajectory of the military is different
(04:33):
in the Southern hemistry of the Northern hemisphere or was
that what they were doing it for? Was there another
lesson you're trying to tell us. So we had a
very frank discussion.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Was the lesson more aimed at Australia than us or not?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Ah? Well, you know, when you're dealing with something, if
you don't know the ambience and the objective of hates,
I think I can interpret it. All I know is
this is not but even with the law of the sea,
and they're right to do that through the Tasman this
sort of thing where aircraft have to be redirected is
(05:10):
not amongst insuccessible. That's the point I made to you.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Talk to mister Brown posters trip to China.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The reality is.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
No, do you want to should Well?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I tell you I've set out very very clearly in
correspondence what we abound constitutionally by the two thousand and
one agreement of doctor Mowate or the cook Arms and
Helen Tuk back then. What we're trying to know. It's difficult,
but we've just said out and we're just waiting for
an answer.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Okay. Helen Clark actually over the weekend said five Eyes
has passed. It's used by day and we shouldn't be
part of it anymore and it's got mission creep. Is
that fair or not?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well? She started off saying that, and the end of
the interview she went backwards on that. You know what
I mean? I think cassel I said, I don't know why,
said many people who have fast politicians feel compelled to
talk about circumstances not engaged in at the moment, I
wouldn't say now, but she she ran back on that
when it was said to hang on it. Are you
telling us that critical information we need to get for security,
(06:16):
for drugs and all sorts of things you don't want
to know about, And she pulled back on that.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, what do you make of what's going on in
the world at the moment? I mean, we're stuck in
the middle of something here between the Chinese and the
US and Orcust and I mean, what do you what
do you when when you hear Donald Trump and watch
him in the White House and he doesn't know what
Orcus is and Miles has handed over eight hundred million
dollars in the terriff tray, I mean, God, what a mess.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, I think this asking it would be wise for me,
in the interests of my country, to keep my mouse
up and wait until the dust settles.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Okay, what about that horse? Have you ridden it?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It was freezing and I thought about four off the
darn thing. It'll be like a stone. I put him
on a concrete Okay, but one of these days I
might get a jones.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
It is a good looking horse.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's this fine special that they have. You got there
a different type of horse. That is, they're this horse they're
bred for, you know, races of twenty five kilometers. It's
quite unique in that context. Wow, it's a fine specimen
of that sort of horse. And it was a very
well that's quite overtaking by tell it truth?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
What what are these around in the in the sense
you've got to declare it obviously, but I mean did
they look after it and feed it and all that sort.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Of sun I'm not going to declare it. I'm not
going to go down the pathway, the stupid official den
where there's no benefit to me at all. But it's
the pleasure. And one time I bought a horse and
a charity to help a charitable cause. And then they
asked me, you've got the said a minute, you've got
a file, you've got an interest, and I said, you
got a miss. See, I've got a debt. That's what
I've got to look after forever.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So but I tell you, the horse stays in Mongolia,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, well, yeah, well that's where it will be saying,
because that's the idea that they look after the rest
of its life and keep it in my put in
my president of mind and both. If you're a chance,
I'll sit when again, But I don't know. We'll see
how it goes.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Okay, good on. You appreciate it very much, Winston Peters.
I enjoy Wide Ranger. You know what can I say?
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
News Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
News on our belliegued ferry service. Official documents were released
yesterday that the canceled deal from December of twenty three
should have been renegotiated, perhaps more urgently. What we ended
up with was, of course, a new minister and a
promise that we're going to have some fine detail on
these new ships by the end of this month. The
Minister in chargeable of this is of course Winston Peters,
who is with us. Very good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
If I get time, I wouldn't mind touching on Raratonga
and China and those talks of yours. But as far
as March is concerned, by the end of March, just
to make this nice and clean and clear and quick,
by the end of March, you'll be able to tell
us basically who's doing it, what it costs, and what
we're buying. Is that fair or not?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, Jenny, seeing it's the three targets, we're going to
be able to announce who's in the game, what they're
printending for and what the costs will be.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Okay, and is that a timeline to get us the
new ships by the twenty nine target when the other
ones fall apart.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
That's definitely. Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, is Hyundai if they're in the mix and we
can cut a deal with them, does that negate some
of the break fee as part of the deal.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, that's an interesting way you put that question. But
when you're in the negotiations like that, that is the
deal that they are negotiating. With the exit deal with KiwiRail,
I'm starting off something new now. The first part of
the exit deal will have to be settled. But are
you asking me, is there a consideration for that exit
deal in terms of the new deal. I've been promised
(01:21):
that yes, So it's helpful. I said, it's appalling what
I've had to deal with because we've got people shouting
out three hundred million when it's way way less than that.
This other aspects sert what chut to do with the fairies,
but all too with a shocking decision. We started off
in May of twenty twenty, when I was a minister
then ordering two ferries for four hundred and one billion.
(01:44):
That's way less than half a billion. I come back
to find that the heading towards over four billion. Now heaven,
we had to stop it.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Having read the paperwork between Kiwi Rayle and Grant Robinson
as it was at the time. How the government did that?
I do and get on top of that was I
can't explain it. You will have read the letters. I'm
assuming ki Roll just keep coming back and going we
want more and we won't ask for more. Oh sorry,
well we need more, but we won't ask for more.
And so went on, how's that happen?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, it happens when you got people who couldn't run
the school. Touchhop, that's that bundles. But we're going in
the extreme.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Were you cognizant at the time. I don't want to
re litigate history, but when Robertson was running the place,
were you cognizant? This was going on with This was
post post twenty twenty, and you weren't part of it.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
It was post twenty twenty. I mean I left it
was four hundred and one billion, so half one one million, yeah,
for two ferries and one million listen that way, listen
an half a billion I've come back to find over
by Treasury's forecast four billion.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
It was just a lolly scramble with no discipline from
the Minister, Finance of five, minister or anyone. And these
saying people sit in the house and tell you's there.
They couldrun a country. Look, it's as grace of what's
happening here, but this is just a repetitive example of
what they did over and over again.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Do you sit here talking to us this morning bullish
that ideal will be reached and a good one that
we can all be moderately speaking pleased with.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, the answer that is, we're going worldwide. We've gone
as far as finn in other parts of the world
for content, for tenders. We've got some Our entity that
was is the world's biggest shipbuilding company. Everybody told me
was out back in I've seen them. Cey Parking's are very,
very and esteem. It was an excellent conversation and they
understand that, you know, sometimes the mistakes are made. But
(03:36):
I did have to remind them. You know, in nineteen
fifty when they were in dere trouble, we sent our
soldiers there. When the Asian financial Christs happened in ninety seven,
we were in the one of nine countries underwrote their currency.
We've got a reason to be working with them, and
they are. They're in the right to shave in mind.
I think we can be confident we'll get the sorted
out good.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
As regards to China, and they're allowed to do what
they did because no laws were broken. Did they explain
to you in a way that you can explain to
us what led to that and why suddenly they decided
to do life fires without really letting anybody know.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, no, he didn't explain to me, but I made
it very clear that you know, when you've got a
relationship of which we claim to be proud, a lack
of notice, either from the government or the military is unacceptable.
That's not our so called friends should behave. I can
say that while we accepted that, and I also said
to the peace don't tell me that you're trying to
sort out whether the trajectory of the military is different
(04:33):
in the Southern hemistry of the Northern hemisphere or was
that what they were doing it for? Was there another
lesson you're trying to tell us. So we had a
very frank discussion.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Was the lesson more aimed at Australia than us or not?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Ah? Well, you know, when you're dealing with something, if
you don't know the ambience and the objective of hates,
I think I can interpret it. All I know is
this is not but even with the law of the sea,
and they're right to do that through the Tasman this
sort of thing where aircraft have to be redirected is
(05:10):
not amongst insuccessible. That's the point I made to you.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Talk to mister Brown posters trip to China.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
The reality is.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
No, do you want to should Well?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I tell you I've set out very very clearly in
correspondence what we abound constitutionally by the two thousand and
one agreement of doctor Mowate or the cook Arms and
Helen Tuk back then. What we're trying to know. It's difficult,
but we've just said out and we're just waiting for
an answer.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Okay. Helen Clark actually over the weekend said five Eyes
has passed. It's used by day and we shouldn't be
part of it anymore and it's got mission creep. Is
that fair or not?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well? She started off saying that, and the end of
the interview she went backwards on that. You know what
I mean? I think cassel I said, I don't know why,
said many people who have fast politicians feel compelled to
talk about circumstances not engaged in at the moment, I
wouldn't say now, but she she ran back on that
when it was said to hang on it. Are you
telling us that critical information we need to get for security,
(06:16):
for drugs and all sorts of things you don't want
to know about, And she pulled back on that.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay, what do you make of what's going on in
the world at the moment? I mean, we're stuck in
the middle of something here between the Chinese and the
US and Orcust and I mean, what do you what
do you when when you hear Donald Trump and watch
him in the White House and he doesn't know what
Orcus is and Miles has handed over eight hundred million
dollars in the terriff tray, I mean, God, what a mess.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Well, I think this asking it would be wise for me,
in the interests of my country, to keep my mouse
up and wait until the dust settles.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Okay, what about that horse? Have you ridden it?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
It was freezing and I thought about four off the
darn thing. It'll be like a stone. I put him
on a concrete Okay, but one of these days I
might get a jones.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
It is a good looking horse.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
It's this fine special that they have. You got there
a different type of horse. That is, they're this horse they're
bred for, you know, races of twenty five kilometers. It's
quite unique in that context. Wow, it's a fine specimen
of that sort of horse. And it was a very
well that's quite overtaking by tell it truth?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
What what are these around in the in the sense
you've got to declare it obviously, but I mean did
they look after it and feed it and all that sort.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Of sun I'm not going to declare it. I'm not
going to go down the pathway, the stupid official den
where there's no benefit to me at all. But it's
the pleasure. And one time I bought a horse and
a charity to help a charitable cause. And then they
asked me, you've got the said a minute, you've got
a file, you've got an interest, and I said, you
got a miss. See, I've got a debt. That's what
I've got to look after forever.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
So but I tell you, the horse stays in Mongolia,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, well, yeah, well that's where it will be saying,
because that's the idea that they look after the rest
of its life and keep it in my put in
my president of mind and both. If you're a chance,
I'll sit when again, But I don't know. We'll see
how it goes.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Okay, good on. You appreciate it very much, Winston Peters.
I enjoy Wide Ranger. You know what can I say?
For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to
News Talks at B from six am weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio
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