The Resident Builder podcast: September 15, 2024

This week on the show, ZB's Resident Builder Pete Wolfkamp discusses the latest issues impacting the world of construction- and answers questions!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Resident build Up podcast with Peter
wolf Camp from News Talks at Bay.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
A house is a hole even when it stars, even
when the grass is overgrown in the yard, even when
the dog is too old to bar, and when you're
sitting at the table trying not to start and scissor home,

(00:41):
even when weave a band ball, even.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
When you're there alone. A house is a hole, even
when those goes, even when you got around from the world.

(01:05):
You love you more.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Streams being in fund.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Locals, Vesta when they're going the.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
House, even when we ban, even when you're.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
In there alone.

Speaker 5 (01:34):
Well, a very good morning and welcome along to the
Resident Builder on Sunday. You're with me Peak wolf Camp,
the Resident Builder, and we are talking all things building construction.
It's it's the legislation, it's the products, it's the assembly,
it's the disassembly. We can talk demolition and demolition, waste
and waste minimization and the carbonize. My head is a

(01:56):
little bit full because I was in Wellington yesterday. It's
not full because I was in Wellington, but I was
working on a little presentation around wide is Good matter
and it was prompted by a bit of thinking over
the last couple of weeks or months, I guess around,
you know, sort of justifying and arguing for better building practice,

(02:17):
like why does it actually matter to build better? So yeah,
a head full of ideas. Anyway, Good morning, welcome along
to the show. Trust that you're well and hope it's
been a good week. Looking forward to chatting with you
this morning about all things building and construction. We're also
going to introduce a I suppose a new expert guest

(02:38):
to the lineup this morning as well, so after eight
o'clock will take some time to talk about ventilation. And
I guess the reason I wanted to bring up ventilation
and talk about it very specifically is a lot of
discussion about ventilating houses. Correctly, given that most of our
houses don't sort of ventilate incidentally and accidentally like they

(03:01):
might have done in the past, we're talking about houses
that are increasingly air tight, still a long way from
sort of passive house standard air tightness, but increasingly airtight
and air quality and indoor air quality controlling moisture, controlling mold,
these sorts of things are really really important in our houses.
So Storm Harpham, who I met, I was introduced to

(03:23):
her actually through a LinkedIn article a couple of months
ago where it was a rebuttal let's say, to the
proposed changes to wind back the new H one changes.
And I read through the article and I thought, gosh,
this is really technical information presented in a way that
is quite digestible for most of us, myself included. Anyway,

(03:47):
we've talked on a number of occasions. I've sought her
advice on a couple of issues around sort of mold
and mildew inside a property that I look after. And
so I'm going to bring her onto the show today
at around just after eight o'clock this morning. So Storm
Harpham is we're going to talk all things of ventilation, specifically.
If you've got any specific questions on that, you feel

(04:09):
free to send them through now. Otherwise I've already got
a whole heap of questions for here. Up until then,
it is your opportunity to talk all things building, whatever
element it is, whether like I say, it's the legislation,
it's the doing, it's the products, it's the disputes. And
I went along and had a look at one property
that was kind of in dispute this week so sometimes

(04:31):
it goes well and sometimes it doesn't. Eight hundred eighty
ten eighty is the number to call. You can text
as well. That's nine two nine two was zbzb from
your mobile phone. And if you'd like to send me
an email, you're more than welcome. It's Pete atnewstalksb dot
co dot nz. So eleven minutes after six ian A
very good morning.

Speaker 6 (04:49):
What I can't understand about construction is why they cost
the materials are so expensive, compete with Australia and why
did Labor promise to build one hundred thousand houses when
they knew they couldn't Because there's not only that's carbonders
and electricians and trades people to too many people doing
ba's and b comms. It's not enough bscs and you

(05:12):
know we're training the wrong thing. Yeah, what I can't
stand it.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
Don't get me stated on kew we build. I'm still
kind of peeved about the whole thing. I'd probably use
other language in another situation. So, yes Ki Build was
an utter disaster and all of the justifications that came
afterwards were pathetic.

Speaker 6 (05:40):
And they still aren't really doing any better, are they?

Speaker 5 (05:45):
Well arguably no, but they never said that they would, right,
So you know, that was the bit that got me
is that from what I understand of that policy, and
I really don't want to read litigate it here, is
that it was kind of like sitting in the car
going to a meeting, thinks up an idea, let's build
one hundred thousand and ten years. Suddenly it's policy. And

(06:07):
I remember, you know, being an industry meetings and that
sort of thing beforehand. Could we do this, No, we couldn't.
It was it was pine in the sky, nonsense. Right
In terms of housing affordability, I mean, I think that
that look, that's a massively intricate question to answer, but
one of the things that we do need to accept
here is that we are a small island at the

(06:31):
bottom of the world with very few people in it, right,
and yet what we want is what everybody else has got. Yeah,
you know, so you know, we don't have I don't think,
by comparison to other countries, tremendously high building standards, but
we also don't have terribly low building standards. So there's
a lot of compliance costs, there's a lot of emphasis

(06:53):
on building better, which I would support. I think one
of the things that we haven't accepted as a population,
as a consumer base is we can't keep building one off, right,
So you know, for no, no, no, Right up until
probably I don't know, maybe a little under ten years ago,

(07:16):
the model for sort of expanding our cities was a
developer would buy some land, they would carve that up
into sections, and they'd sell the sections to individual builders.
And when I started building with Tom thirty something years ago,
that's exactly what we were doing, right. He'd find a
piece of land, we'd build a house on it. We'd
go out, we'd get it specifically designed, we'd go off

(07:37):
and talk to all the product suppliers and all the rest.
Everything was individual and bespoke. Now there's no efficiencies in that.
Right Whereas I went to and without this being a
plug for simplicity living, but I went to one of
their developments earlier this year now they're doing it was
a fifty one unit development on a single site. They

(08:01):
went from excavation to finished in fifty two weeks, so
in one year, right, And they've they've they've built them
to I think a very high standard and they were
completely and utterly finished in one year. And one of
the things about them is that they have a sort
of not quite modular approach, but it's repetitive.

Speaker 7 (08:22):
Right.

Speaker 5 (08:22):
They're production, not construction. There are i think off the
top of my head, four different window sizes, right, not
thirty or forty different window sizes. There are a couple
of basic kitchen plans. So when you're going to a
manufacturer and saying make me one hundred and fifty windows
and they're all the same size, they're going to be

(08:43):
cheaper than one hundred and fifty windows that are all
different sizes. So you know, we're and then you know,
whenever you say this, people go, oh, you, but think
about England and that and all those rows of tiki
techi houses and all the.

Speaker 8 (08:55):
Rest of it.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
Well, it's kind of like you can't have your cake
and eat it too. So you know, if we are
going to have affordability, we're going to have sort of
mass production. We're going to have regularity, We're going to
have less of the bespoke and more of the producing.

Speaker 6 (09:10):
We need a central planning. The thing we're near liberal
economics that were brought in the nineteen eighty four, and
I think it's a disaster and moldoing was a socialist,
and then labor was so right wing, and then roots
in Asia and the cult of the individual and real
estate agents are killing property developers. You know, the little

(09:34):
man can't win. The little man can't win because the
cost of rates and insurance and everything goes up in
the price of food and we make food for forty
million people, yet we pay export prices for our meat
and our dairy and.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
Well, yeah, I mean, look, there's an argument around there.
I and I could talk to you all day, and
genuinely I could, and I love the debate around, you know,
kind of the big picture stuff around construction. But we'll
try and find because I'm actually getting some stuff done.
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call.
Text New Zealand has not grasped the fact that our

(10:14):
mindset needs to change, We need to change our attitude
towards housing. I would agree. I think there's a lot
more to that statement, obviously from the text, And thank
you for your text. Yeah, you know, what does housing
affordability look like? It looks like standardization. And you know,
the next kind of response to that is often yeah,
but that's boring. Okay, So it's boring. You know, it's boring,

(10:39):
but it's housing. It's boring, but it might be affordable,
and it doesn't necessarily have to be boring, but it does
need to be efficient, and efficiencies tend to be through repetition.
I eight hundred eighty ten eighty the number to call Jim.
Good morning to you.

Speaker 7 (10:53):
Yeah, good morning, Pete. They spoke to you a few
weeks ago about where my boundary fence was in the
wrong place. Yes, and what we've found now, so we've
gone through a process of sorting it out. But we've
got the plans now where when the builder built the
shed on the property, and it actually shows on the

(11:15):
plan that it should be one meter from the true boundary,
not one meter from where the fence is now and
three meters from the house, whereas an actual fact that
it's four meters from the house. So who was responsible
for that? When?

Speaker 5 (11:34):
When was the shed built?

Speaker 7 (11:36):
Eight year or approximately eight years ago? We've only just
discovered all this problems recently.

Speaker 5 (11:42):
And did you have the shed built or was it
there when.

Speaker 7 (11:45):
You Yeah, no, no, we had it built there. Okay,
So on the planet shows and we didn't have the
plan a few a short time ago. So I've only
just recently got the plan actually from a copy from
the councilor Yes, it shows the plan as the building

(12:08):
should be one meter from the true boundary. Yeah, and
I've actually had a survey person round to have a
look and say, yes, that's true where it should be.
But of course an actual faith they've taken one meter
from the sisting fence, which was in the wrong pace.
So who's technically wrong?

Speaker 5 (12:29):
Yeah, look, I think hm, the fact that so the
building consent was issued you think sometime around two thousand
and twenty sixteen. Okay, that's not the dim dark past, right,
So it was common practice what it is now, and

(12:50):
it was certainly then to have to determine the boundary
and then prove the loco that Typically when you know,
the first inspection is you've established your boundary, you've done
your earthworks and site works and you know dug the footings.
Let's say you're ready to pull the slab. Council inspector
comes out and one of the things that they'll ask

(13:11):
for is either evidence of where the boundary is, like
can you show me the boundary pegs and prove to
me that it's in the right place, or you provide
the inspector with a citing certificate from a surveyor who's
come out to determine that the building is in the
right place. And so somehow your building got built without
either of those two checks being undertaken. So, and given

(13:37):
that it's only eight years ago, the contractor who did
the work is probably still responsible for it. Now they
might say, well, look, we were not told where the
boundary was, but I would still probably argue that it
is their responsibility to do that. And they could say, well,
council signed it off, in which case you could go
back to council and say, well, hang on, how come

(13:59):
you guys didn't pick this up.

Speaker 7 (14:02):
Yeah, well I've had to talk to the councilor said
no to it, which I can, and they.

Speaker 5 (14:10):
On what basis did they say no to it?

Speaker 7 (14:13):
Well, I say it's not not their responsibility, and and
it does say they're on the original thing that it's
up to the owner and the builder to determine where
the boundaries are. So they get out of that little
loophole there. But the only thing is that when we
built this shed, that was built by a franchise person.

(14:38):
So does that take it and that franchise person or
company now is gone. So yeah, does that take it
away from the original company?

Speaker 5 (14:49):
Well no, this is no, it doesn't. And this is
the whole point of the licensed building practitioner scheme. Right,
So one something in the file that you've got, there
will be the name of an LBP, right who would
have put in? It's an individual, right, you can't company
can not be a licensed building practitioner. So it will
be an individual and they will have responsibility for it.

(15:12):
So I would track that person down and if they
are still currently registered, you would certainly have a conversation
with them. I think even if they weren't registered, they
still hold some responsibility for their building work for ten
years after they've done it, and something like not putting
it in the right place could ultimately still be their responsibility.

(15:35):
I feel a bit bad for them, but it doesn't
mean that that's not their responsibility.

Speaker 7 (15:40):
So the person that, as I say, was a franchise
and now that person has gone.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
Yes, as in the company has gone, but there will
be on the I presume the building if it got
a building consent, it also has a code compliant certificate.
On the code compliance certificate will be the LBP details
for the builder right now. That might the person who

(16:07):
did the slab might be a different LBP to the
person who did the building, but there will be an
LBP on there and I would pursue them.

Speaker 7 (16:16):
Yeah, all right, okay, all right, thank you.

Speaker 5 (16:19):
Let us know here you get on, Jim, thanks for
the update. All right, thank you all best bye and
then we'll take short break. It is twenty two minutes
after six eight hundred and eighty ten eighty the number
to call your news talks B. Actually, it was nice
to caught up with life for Sola down at the
Wellington Home and Garden Show, which is still on today
by the way, at sky see the Ousaronot sky City

(16:40):
sky Stadium in Wellington. So I was in Wellington yesterday.
Delightful flight back home as well on in New Zealand
with a very lovely Kevin crewmember who, while wandering down
the aisle goes, oh, hello, mister Wolfcamp, you're working tomorrow morning.
So I'm working tomorrow morning. Good, she said, I'll tune
in and listen. So a very good morning to you
as well and to all of the crew that were

(17:01):
on the flight. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty the
number to call Charles. Good morning to you, Hi, Peter.

Speaker 9 (17:08):
My problem is an old fleach of brown built roof
nineteen sixties meant so you don't get too much rust
down there, but I've got patches of rust in it.
Can I use a rust converter and then paint over it?
The roof's been unpainted all those years?

Speaker 7 (17:28):
Yes?

Speaker 10 (17:28):
Why not?

Speaker 5 (17:29):
I mean, look, if the ruster is, you know, starting
to bubble or eat all the way through, then maybe
you need to look at either repair or replacement. And
to be fair, a nineteen sixties roof, like my nineteen
sixties knees may need some replacement, right so you know
you'll be able to eke out an extra couple of years.
But yeah, you could do, you know, treat the rust,

(17:49):
put another coat of paint on it. That'll certainly do it.
There's interestingly enough, there's there's a couple of products that
have come onto the market recently which are like a
thick viscous membrane which has sprayed over the top of
old roofs as well. So if you wanted to spend
a bit more money, you could get contractor and the
do that type of thing.

Speaker 9 (18:09):
Can you recommend the prom product that I can just
paint on the patches.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
Paint on patches. You sound like me back in the
eighties cutting up my T shirt and putting it over
the holes and the roof that I was painting. I
think that actually worked quite well. By the way. Look,
I wouldn't recommend that, partly because I went through a
lot of T shirts while I was painting. There's not
in terms of patches, there's really no recommended way of

(18:35):
doing that.

Speaker 7 (18:35):
Right.

Speaker 5 (18:37):
So you could try and patch the sheets with another
sheet of tin and sort of a bead of sealant,
but often they just become a damn at a certain stage.
Can I say with the graves to respect the roof
has served you well, maybe you need to just look
at replacing the roof.

Speaker 9 (18:55):
We thank you very much.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Nice to chat with Charles. You take care by then.
I remember doing that. I was painting. It was kind
of like a contra thing, you know. I was helping
out a mate, and every now and then there was
like a small rust patch was appearing on this old
corrigid iron roof, and quite literally, and I say this
slightly shamefully, we'd just sort of rip outful cut off

(19:18):
a section of T shirt that we were wearing, dip
it in the bucket of paint, so we'd sucked up
all the paint, put that on top of the patch,
or put that as a patch on top of the
little rusthole that had developed, and then just paint more
paint over the top of it. I don't know how
long it lasted, and I'm not suggesting it's a suitable
method of repairing, but hey needs must Oh eight hundred
eighty ten eighty is the number to call. I'm just

(19:40):
trying to I was thinking about painting that roof too.
It was quite steep because it was an old villa
and he's sort of scampering around there as a young
fellow with a bucket of paint.

Speaker 11 (19:55):
It was.

Speaker 5 (19:56):
It felt like a long way to the ground too.
Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty the number to call. Lorraine.
Good morning to you, Good morning peat.

Speaker 12 (20:03):
I'm looking at a house that's got metra pedaling in
the walls and internal walls. Can you talk to people?
Nobody seems to have heard much about it. Can you
tell me is that a good thing or not?

Speaker 5 (20:14):
Sorry? A walling product?

Speaker 12 (20:16):
Which one in a house? I'm looking to buy it.
The internal walls are made of metropalne. Before you can
hear you tell me whether it's a good thing or not.

Speaker 5 (20:28):
Yes, look what metropanel is. I think it's actually Jane L.
Duken's triboard, right, So it's made as triboard and when
it gets sold through that company it becomes metropanel. So
it's like either a thirty six or a thirty nine
millimeter composite board which has a strand board core and

(20:50):
then NDF on each side, so it's a solid panel.
And in fact, when I was in Wellington yesterday, the
Easy Build team they use it as part of their bill.
There's a crowd that we've talked to up in the
Far North Panel Locke who also uses So rather than
having a timber stud and then plasterboard lining and all
the rest of it, it's simply you assemble your entire

(21:12):
house using these panels. Yeah. Look it's durable, it's robust,
it doesn't move around a lot, so I wouldn't have
any well, I mean it's a wood product, right, so
it's neither cold nor warm. It is whatever you heat
it up. So on the perimeter of the house, for example,

(21:33):
typically you'll have that panel as the inside face and
as the structural element, and then on the outside they'll
put on a baton and that's where the insulation go,
and then the cladding goes over the top of that.
And you might find if you look up, is the
ceiling also in this metropanel.

Speaker 12 (21:51):
I don't think so. I think it's just the walls
which makes it narrower.

Speaker 5 (21:55):
What it is is it's space saving for the floor.

Speaker 12 (21:58):
Yes, yes, But I just wondered because a lot of
people hadn't heard about it, and you sort of think, well.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
Look, it's been around shivers I.

Speaker 12 (22:06):
Think twenty years.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
I think, oh, even longer, and I've spoken with people
who are building with it, you know, back in the
eighties basically, so yeah, it's been around, it's proven itself.
It is super durable, and you know, one of the
huge advantage, well, there's number of advantages. One is the
space saving because you know, if you're within a conventional house,
if you took the same frame footprint and built it

(22:29):
using that sort of panel system, you can save about
I think it's close to six percent of the floor
space just by reducing the thickness of all of those walls,
and yeah, in terms of rigidity and so on, it's great.
In terms of robustness, you know, the ability to resist
knocks and so on, it's got some huge advantages as well.

Speaker 12 (22:48):
So once it's up, though, you cannot put a new
plugs or anything like that. You have to have them
because it's like a kit set, so you have to
have all your points and everything put them beforehand. Is
that correct?

Speaker 5 (22:57):
Yes, that yeah, because getting there is no inside of
the wall to get to. So typically at the time
of construction, if they're going to do light switches, powerpoints,
that sort of thing, they're routed into the sheet and
then you know there's there's a pathway for that cabling
to go. So if you were to add in new cabling,

(23:19):
maybe with a little bit of care and tension, you
could try and drill up and then drill out. But
what you might find is that you just have to
do it with a bit of trunking on the face
of the panel.

Speaker 12 (23:28):
What about the pumbing where the pumbing everything is because
a lot of the pumbing's done from the ceiling. Now,
is that right from the top of the house now
the news sometimes.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
But typically in bathrooms, and that what they'll do is
they'll use the panel and then they'll do effectively creating
a service's cavity. Right, so there'll be a batman on
the inside and all of your plumbing runs down there,
and it might have some lining over the top of it.

Speaker 12 (23:49):
Right, Okay, Yeah, So you don't think it's a problem
for buying a house like that or even trying to
sell it at some stage.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
Look, I think it's a product that's been around, you know,
it's well known within certain sectors. I think it's it's
proven itself over time, and while not everyone's familiar with it,
doesn't mean it's not hasn't been around and isn't a
reliable product.

Speaker 12 (24:10):
Just seemed unusual that a lot of builders, you know,
even building company rank, hadn't heard of it.

Speaker 10 (24:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
Look, that's I think one of the things with you know,
builders in general, and I'm one of them, right, is
we kind of stick to what we know, and so
you know, you can spend your whole building life just
doing one type of building, and the fact is we've
got lots of different types of buildings out there and
lots of different building methodologies. So what you're encountering there

(24:38):
is one that maybe isn't familiar to everyone. Not to
say that. I mean, I know people have been building
with it, like I say, for thirty forty years.

Speaker 12 (24:46):
Yes, yes, So you wouldn't have avoid buying your house
because it had no problems at all.

Speaker 5 (24:50):
I would frame that by saying, I hope that you
get independent advice and you make sure that you know
a whole lot of other things are right with the house.
But as a broad brush approach, I wouldn't say that
you have any reason to be too considered.

Speaker 12 (25:04):
They even asked a building inspector and he hadn't heard
of it.

Speaker 5 (25:06):
Then you need to find a better building inspector.

Speaker 12 (25:09):
Right, Okay, to be blunt, right, that's a good one.

Speaker 5 (25:12):
Nice to talk to you. You take care. See then
bye bye. Yeah, you need to find a better building inspector.
Oh eight hundred and eighty ten eighty Now someone has
I love these texts. Hang on hand. Let me deal
with this one first morning, Pete. Sorry, you're wrong. No
LBP required for the garage, as it's not restricted building
work unless it's habitable and is on the inspector. And

(25:33):
it is on the inspector. If he passed the citing inspection,
he has had a base to pass on the evidence
to identifying the boundary. If he's just taken on trust Craig,
and I of've Craig's opinions all of the time. Hang on,
if it got a consent, it's restricted building work. I

(25:53):
know you can build certain types of garages and certain
locations without necessarily requiring a consent, but this one got
a consent, and consented work can only be done by
a licensed building practitioner unless you get an exemption. That's
point that I was trying to make al. I love
the text from Craig. Oh, eight hundred and eighty ten
eighty is the number to call John A very good
morning to you.

Speaker 10 (26:15):
That's the very thing I reng you about, Peter. When
you're buying a house, you know you can go to
the local council and anything that's on the council. That's
why even if it's you know, every time you get
some alterations it requires a Milligan seat, you've got to
get a Billigan set.

Speaker 5 (26:33):
And then only if it's restricted building work, and only
if it's work that does actually require a consent.

Speaker 10 (26:40):
Yeah, I know this particular they got a building a
set for.

Speaker 8 (26:45):
It, didn't they?

Speaker 5 (26:46):
They did yes, and it got issued with the c SEC,
didn't it. It would appear so well, I know it does.
So what I asked, what I asked Jim is did
it did you have a building consent for this? And
did it get a CCC? And yes, and yes is

(27:07):
the answer. And look, you know, think back, I remember building,
you know, twenty five thirty years ago, right, and would
do a set out and the inspector would come along
for the footing inspection and they'd kind of just look
around and go, yep, looks like it's in the right place.
Now those days don't exist anymore, right, And eight years
ago you would set out your foundations, you would either

(27:30):
do it because the surveyor had been to the site
beforehand and put in let's say, four boundary pigs for you,
and then you set the building up on that and
they would issue a sighting certificate. And in the absence
of a sighting certificate, you'd have to prove evidence to
the building inspector at the time that they were coming
to look at the foundation inspection, the first inspection that

(27:50):
the building was in the right place. So, you know,
if Jim had said to me, look, I built the
garage thirty years ago. I'd say, yeah, I can understand
how it somehow missed out.

Speaker 10 (28:02):
Peter Yip. Yeah, look I was a building and spricked
up twenty five years so I know exactly what you're saying.
What I'm saying is that in the notes of the
of the inspections there there will be in the notes
at the Lake Authority where it is, I don't know

(28:22):
where it is, what council, but there will be in
the notes that that an inspects it was cool to
do a citing. That's if it was going to be
done now. But it's going to be done by the inspector.
They've got to define the boundaries with the with the
survey pigs, and then they've got to put lines up
and stuff, and to just sick to see its being

(28:42):
cited as accordance with the approved building of scent plans. Now,
the other way you said is right, if if it's
a bit done you and they can't find the pigs
and that, then they've got to employ a serve land
and they didn't get to prove siding to be that
will be in the notes. Now if this thing has
been built with the building concent and it's been issued

(29:05):
with the side off and it's gone to to be
a compliance, then it's on the council. The council should
have evidence to show when that when that siding inspector
was done and who and who passed it and and
if they've got no records of that, that's on the council.
And they shouldn't have done the siding in the building

(29:29):
said to be a good priance and to finishing the
job because because it would have been an inspection that
wasn't done side the inspection. Now the other thing, if
it didn't require siting inspection that need this isn't to
be any good pride, you know, from a reason very clear.

Speaker 5 (29:46):
Well, that's where I was.

Speaker 10 (29:47):
Be able to he should go and go to the
council and get the information from the council as to
how it was silent, and they should be evidenced there
that it was cited as approved.

Speaker 5 (30:01):
And that's where I was a little bit surprised because
he's gone to the council to get the property file
because he didn't still have the copy of the consent,
and then he's asked counsel about this and they've just said, no,
it's not our job. There's a little note on there
to say that the contractor and the owner.

Speaker 13 (30:17):
Are the job.

Speaker 5 (30:19):
And I'm thinking, I don't think it works that way
any well, eight years ago. It's just not that long ago.
It's not like the building practice has changed dramatically in
the last eight years. And you and I would both agree,
you know, thirty forty years ago. I mean I remember
setting out a building. Admittedly it was on a lifestyle block,

(30:41):
and we had one pig in the ground and it
was like, that's where the building's going to go, and
then we did all the rest from there. Now it's
not like that anymore, right, And it wasn't like that
eight years ago. And I don't understand how he can't
get counsel to engage on that.

Speaker 10 (30:55):
Peter. It's better now because I'm eighty eight now and
I retired when I was seventy two from building of streeting, right,
So we had to wear about those things then, and
it was very simple. You know, they either gave you
a certificate from a license you know, SERVO or else

(31:18):
and it'll be in the notes. There's no way that
they know we don't know about that.

Speaker 5 (31:23):
Yeah, I think maybe he needs to get someone to
argue on his behalf. With regard to counsel John, I
love the experience and the insights. Now update update old
inspectors one hundred percent correct from Craig. I agree with you, right, Craig. Update. Yes,
standalone garage does need a consent, but it only needs
an LBP if it's habitable. So if it's not a

(31:46):
habitable building, I you know, you get a company that
specializes in garages, they'll need to get a consent for it,
but the people who do it don't need to be
an LBP. That is genuinely news for me. I was
very much under the impression that if it's a consent,
it needs to be restrict A consent basically defines what

(32:06):
restricted building work is.

Speaker 10 (32:08):
Right.

Speaker 5 (32:08):
You can do work that's building work that's not restricted
if it didn't have a consent. If you get a consent,
it becomes restricted building work. Restricted building work can only
be done or undertaken or supervised by an LBP. I'm
going to have to do a bit more reading on that, Craig.
Thank you very much, sir. We'll call that one a draw.
Oh eight one hundred eighty ten eighty is the number
to call it a six forty two at newstalk zeb radio.

(32:31):
Very good morning to you all, and at least a
very good morning to you.

Speaker 14 (32:35):
Good morning, how are you very well?

Speaker 5 (32:38):
Thank you?

Speaker 12 (32:39):
It's use.

Speaker 14 (32:41):
So I've got just an interesting little problem, and I'm
sure you're be intrigued about. I think just my house
eleven years ago and welcome they total and when I
would just sell that three years later, I decided I
had accounts of decided that it had no compliants and

(33:03):
all the checks that I've done with frugal, so I
had over silence to try and sell it privately to
or a developer. So he got the council down and
turns out that the house, the only thing on the
council file that was not ticked off was the piles.

(33:25):
Everything else is tack dated and signed. So we believe
it's that an administrative area year odd years ago when
the house is constructed. However, now one of my boundaries
is on to a X Housing year leland the house

(33:45):
where the tenants have been there for over twenty years,
and that particular Housing Year Zealand portfolio sold over eleven
hundred properties to an Australian company called IHC, And so
they mean that and they had the tenants vis my

(34:07):
boundary needed they planted a plant to caught an a
plant about twenty years ago, and that has encroached onto
my intection to the tune onto my boundaries in the government.
I'm not living at this house right most of the time,
but to the tune of about a meter and a half.

(34:30):
So we needed to leave a defense and redo defense
so we could decide what we're going to do with
our property. When doing that, the digger came in and
caused one hell of a mess and up popped three
springs on the groundw market his digger line fresh water
springs the best of them, one lesa of fresh spring

(34:59):
water every minute, So now I want the water. They
just not a boundary, and no one's playing game with anyone,
you know, if they say the focus the boundary alone
down across nineteen thousand.

Speaker 5 (35:15):
Dollars and they want to surveys.

Speaker 14 (35:17):
Yeah, yeah, now right, age what works? And so that's
turning into a very just thing conversation where yeah, I'll
take liability, all right, if you can assure me that
that water gets three directed.

Speaker 5 (35:34):
In my fiction, I can just see this becoming vastly,
vastly complicated in a in a very short manner of time. Unfortunately,
I appreciate the I mean it is. It is phenomenal
how complex these things get in a remark like I say,
remarkably short amount of time. I hope it all works out.

(35:54):
I'm not sure there's a question then there, So I
hope it all works out for you. It is six
forty eight here at news Talk CB. I chat for
a second longer. It's actually six forty nine. Time to
take a break back after the break a couple of
speed lines for right now? Eight hundred eighty ten eighty
is that number to call? So just clearing up some
of the confusion, let's say, and if I've been part

(36:16):
of that, my apologies for that. So LBP work that's
excluded is covered in the building dot gov dot NZ
website if you sort of go projects and construction. I
don't think I can bring up a hyperlink through the text.
Oh I can. How exciting, right, So I'll have a
look at that. And what it is is things where

(36:39):
you might need a consent for it, but it doesn't
necessarily need an LBP to do the work. And that
includes garages if they're not going to be habitable. So
if they suddenly become a habitable space, then suddenly they
do need to have an LBP actually undertake the work
as well. I'll dig into a bit more of this

(37:01):
detail for you shortly. Oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty
is the number to call, and the lines are over
an art A very good morning to you get art. Hello, Yeah,
Matt from christ Church, Matt, good morning.

Speaker 7 (37:16):
Good morning.

Speaker 15 (37:17):
Is it possible to relay concrete over concrete head? I've
got a concrete pair that's tilting it towards the garage door.
Previously it was tilted away from the garage door, so
got water going into the garage.

Speaker 5 (37:30):
I suppose the concern with you know, those sorts of
repairs is will you get it to add here? So
you know, I would say that you could. You can
lay a new slab over the top of an old
one if you've got it, you know, I'd say a
minimum of seventy five millimeters, and then you'd want to
make sure that the two bond together. The other problem

(37:51):
that I can see is that if the existing one
is moving and you pour another one on top, what's
to stop both of them then moving?

Speaker 15 (38:01):
I think it's said, yeah, okay, I wouldn't be pouring
a pad it looks like I had to cut.

Speaker 7 (38:10):
It and break.

Speaker 5 (38:11):
Yeah, I think, because you know, to be fair, anything
less than that you'll find that it will break and
delaminate anyway, Right, So you'd put a lot of effort
into doing it and then find it doesn't last very long.
I think, you know, the typical practice would be to
break up what's there already and simply pour a new
pad and you'll certainly get a much better job.

Speaker 15 (38:35):
I thought that would be advice.

Speaker 5 (38:36):
Yeah, yeah, And just you know, make sure you dispose
of the hard fill somewhere where it can be recycled.
So there's there's I would imagine in Christ it's probably
a number of places that do recycling of hard fill
rather than just send it off to landfill. All the
very best, you take care, all the best. Self leveling

(38:59):
compound does good for Mark, for Christ. It's not the garrette,
it's the path on the outside. I think doing self
leveling compound where it's exposed to the elements not a
good idea. Oh eight, one hundred and eighty ten eighty
is the number to call. We will come back straight
after news Sport and we're the top of the hour
that's about a minute away. In the next hour, we're
going to catch up with Tim Pearson actually, who's a
builder just outside of christ Church who's been using some

(39:21):
of the J and l J panel which I used
on little projects. So we're going to chat with Tim
also in the hour from eight o'clock onwards, or the
half hour before it arrives. Your special guest joining me
on the program, Storm Harpham Harpam, who is a specialist
in ventilation. I picked up on a really good article
that she wrote and posted on LinkedIn talking about the

(39:44):
proposed changes to wind back H one of the building
Code and her response to that, and also a whole
lot of really useful articles around the importance of ventilation.
And my first question to her is going to be,
and I'll take your questions as well via the text.
You know, how is ventilation not just opening the window?
And how have we suddenly gone from just open a

(40:06):
window to requiring ventilation. There's a lot in it, So
I'm looking forward to conversation with Storm after the eight
o'clock news this morning as well. If you've got a question,
call us now, oh eight hundred eighty ten eighty is
that number to call. Any of your building and building
related inquiries and questions are welcome on the show. Like
I said, we've got news, sport and weather top of

(40:28):
the hour at seven o'clock and we're back straight after
the news and a very good morning. Welcome back to
the show. Oh, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
number to call if you've got a building question. That
is the number, eight hundred eighty ten eighty. You can
also text through, and we've had some very fine texts
this morning. Nine to nine two is EZB from your

(40:48):
mobile phone. If you'd like to email me, you're more
than welcome to do that. In fact, I did get
an email this morning from jan who has sent me.
The usefulness of the email is you can attach photographs. Right,
So she has sent me a photograph showing a solution
to a roofing issue that she has. I presume she

(41:13):
the problem with the roof is odd looking solution for
rainwater gushing off the roof above the front door see
the pitcher and sure enough it is just pouring over
the spouting. He has laid a downpipe horizontally for a
couple of meters above the guttering. Now think about a spreader, right,
which is a not uncommon methodology. If you've got an
upper roof discharging onto a lower roof, typically you have

(41:36):
the downpipe coming down, you extend it a little bit
onto the lower roof, and then to ensure that the
water doesn't just pour down in one location, you install
a spreader. They're generally maybe half a meter wide, so
five hundred millimeters. You put an end cap on them,
You drill a series of holes, and it spreads the
distribution jan with the grace. Respect. I have never, ever,

(41:57):
ever in my life, seen a spreader that's probably about
two and a half meters long, So if you're familiar
with these, think about a spreader that's two and a
half met is long with a whole series of holes
drilled in it that is then distributing the water from

(42:19):
the top roof onto the lower roof in order to
stop it overwhelming the lower roof and pouring over the
spouting right by the front door. So thank you for
your photograph. What appears to me is that the actual
problem one, I think that's not a great solution. Two,
the actual problem is that the lower spouting is set

(42:39):
too low. So if you're you know, the photograph is
taken from the ground looking up at the roof. Realistically,
if you've got a let's say a roof at about
two and a half three meters high, and you're standing
four or five meters away from it looking at it,
you shouldn't be able to see the profile of the iron.
And I can quite clearly see not just the peak

(43:00):
of the iron or the rib of the iron, but
also the trough of the iron, which means that in
reasonable weather, the water just shoots straight over the top
of the spouting. So spouting typically is designed with a
lip at the front, which is there to catch water
during heavy downpour. So when it's not just dribbling off
the end of the iron and into the spouting and
it's got some speed because there's lots of water, you

(43:22):
want to be able to capture that. And that's not
what's happening in your instance. So Jan, I think the
issue is that the spouting is set too low. I
can understand why it's set too low because they're aiming
to get to that outlet, which means that they've started
too low somewhere and just got lower and lower and
lower and lower. That's your problem. Oh, eight hundred and

(43:45):
eighty ten eighty. Let's rip into a couple of calls. Remember,
I've got a guest coming. Guests joining us on the
program in the next hour as well to talk ventilation, ventilation,
mold control, moisture control, balance, pressure systems. We're going to
have a whole half hour on ventilation. It'll be great.
So my guest will be joining us in the next hour.

(44:06):
A very good morning, and thanks for wording.

Speaker 16 (44:07):
How are you good morning, Yes, I'm fine, Thank you,
thanks for taking my call. I have a question around
installations and new housing. I had a house built seven
years ago and I had an Atlanta shower put in
my on Sweet and in my master BA throne. The

(44:31):
problem is is that my on Swite shower, the scooting
board started going a little bit dark and the paint
started to sort of slightly flake just outside of the
shower door. And then I noticed just recently that black
mold has come through on an opposing drawer corner and

(44:55):
across the skirting board behind my bed. So the opposing
corner is in my dressing room and across my bed.
So my question is what is the warranty usually on
installation and the plumbing on a new house if it ten.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
Years typically it is yes.

Speaker 16 (45:13):
Okay, so that's all right.

Speaker 5 (45:16):
If a new build, and I mean seven years is
not that long ago, and there should be I mean,
you know that particular brand will have its own warranty
statement or at least a description of how it's supposed
to be installed somewhere in the property records. It should
also have it'll have that certainly will have the name

(45:39):
of the LBP who was kind of in charge of
the project. You'd have to try and track down who
actually did the installation of the shower. So increasingly, particularly
with new builds, we often it's becoming more specialized, for example,
so there, I know there are crews around that just
specialize in installing showers, and possibly the main contractor would

(46:01):
have contracted that company to do the work, so they
have to they then become responsible for it.

Speaker 16 (46:07):
Okay, all right, Well I had Plun've tracked down the plumber,
but he's not getting back to me after explaining what's happened. Right, Yeah,
I've got a bit of a problem there, So that's okay.
I just wanted to confirm because insurance just the house
insurance to slowly paid fifteen hundred plus the five hundred excess,
which is a bit of a shame. So yeah, all right, then.

Speaker 5 (46:31):
Regarded as gradual damage, yes they had. Yeah, yeah, look,
you know it's not that long ago. People should be
able to stand by their work. But you know, I
would start to perhaps have a look at who the
main contractor was and the LBP associated with that, because
there will be one, and then put a little bit

(46:53):
of pressure on them to help you to find the
person responsible.

Speaker 16 (46:57):
Okay, that's.

Speaker 5 (47:00):
All the best, ye take care, Jennette and Robert A
very good morning to you.

Speaker 8 (47:05):
Good morning to you into your session with some interest
over the years, and I think I run up about
it anything, But you mentioned a substance that you put
on a party rusted roof. This is a barn and
an office I have the Hawks Bay, and could you
give me the name of that discuss or this thick

(47:25):
substance that you put on first perhaps of protective measure,
and then you paint over the top and where you're finding.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
I think maybe you've taken what I was doing thirty
odd years ago painting a roof, and felt that that's
some sort of approved methodology. Sorry, all I was doing
back then was actually taking little bits out of my
T shirt and soaking them and paint and putting them
on the roof. That's not a recommended methodology, right, But

(47:53):
there are today, what I've noticed just online, you know,
various ads that have popped up for essentially coatings over
the top of an existing roof, right, so you know,
like maybe maybe not even a millimeter thick, but a
sort of viscous flexible membrane that's supplied over the top
of a substrate. Perhaps that's getting to the end of

(48:15):
its life. If you search, actually, if you search for
roof buddy, this is an interesting thing that's popped up
over the last year or so, just roofbuddy, dot co,
dot z. It's a way of getting different roof buddy. Yeah,
it's a way of getting different roofing contractors to price
for work. And I think they're also involved with some
of these roofing products. I haven't had a chance to

(48:37):
use any of them. I've done like small lean to
roofs with things like during one nine to five or
a couple of EPM type products. But I think if
you wanted to do an entire coating, it'll be a
specialist applicator who'll come and ideally treat the rust and
then apply a coating over the top. And I think
I would you go ahead?

Speaker 8 (48:59):
It's only partial, yeah, portions. It's been around. I don't
know how long it hairs. It's pretty old, but I
think it may have been reroofed at some stage yet,
and I want to preserve. I don't think a stage
where it's a renewal that I was quite Would Razine
have a product like that?

Speaker 5 (49:21):
They'll have roof paint, certainly, and you can use like
a rust converter and then a rust kill primer or
like a general PA primer on it and then top.
But if you've if you've got a hole there, or
the beginning of a hole, then you know paint's not going.

Speaker 8 (49:38):
To fix that, right, No, it'll reach a stage all
right then.

Speaker 5 (49:43):
Yes, Typically with roofs like that, I do a wire brush,
I treat the area with a proper primer, a metal primer,
and then go over the top of the whole roof
with you know, a roofing paint and that will extend
the life of it. And I've done that well, you know,
recommended to clients over the years to do that and
it tends to extend the life of the roof, and

(50:04):
I think the focus is very much on extending the life.
It's not a permanent fix, but it will give you
some more time. Hey, thanks for much trouble it all
and nice too nice to chat with you. You take
care all the best by your news talk B I
eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the number to call now.
Someone has text through looking for independent drainage surveys. To

(50:28):
be fair, I've not really ever encountered one. If I
guess going to a geotech engineer who is experienced in
civil works and drainage might be your best bet. They
were looking for sort of independent advice about drainage, but
not from a drainage company, which is an interesting way.
So I wonder whether a local geotech firm might be

(50:52):
a good place to start for that sort of professional advice.
Good luck on that one. O eight hundred eighty ten
eighty back after the break, Oh text message I could
get I could, I could be waylaid, I could be
led down all sorts of delightful garden paths by this
next question? What ner peak? May I ask if you

(51:12):
have time for an update on your owl? House houses Lee,
thank you very much. I'll restrain right now, but if
you haven't seen it, I have done an update on
the al barn saga. If you go either to Instagram
search resident Builder or go to Facebook, there will be

(51:34):
videos there that explains something of my process. And undoubtedly
I will raise this particular vexatious issue with rud when
we talk with him in just over an hour's time.
So yes, I will talk about that, but I won't
get distracted right now.

Speaker 17 (51:49):
Good morning, Hi morning, Peter.

Speaker 5 (51:52):
You sir, I'm very well, thank you.

Speaker 17 (51:55):
Yeah, yeah, just got a question on the cost of
replacing on a brick sort of a unit. Yes, it's
by roughly forty five meters of one level in the
ground around the house is completely flat as well. Yep,
So what would be their rough costs be?

Speaker 5 (52:17):
I think with these things, you know, they're often it
depends a little bit on the type of spouting do
you want to replace it with? For example, PVC spouting?
Do you want continuous spouting? Do you want metal spouting
but not necessarily continuous? Is someone taking off the old
spouting disposing of it, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So the best thing to do always, I think, is

(52:38):
to get a quote. But I know, you know, then
these ads running on the station continuous group are doing
replacement spouting. It's sort of twenty nine to thirty dollars
a lineal meter, so that gives you an idea. But
that might just be for supply and install. It might
not be for removal, and it might not be for
disposal and those sorts of things. So hunt around, get

(53:00):
some prices. And also it depends on whether it is
genuine spouting hung on a facierboard, or whether it's perhaps
spouting that's part of a concealed spouting and facial system,
which becomes much more complicated.

Speaker 17 (53:13):
Again in the current when he's got the breckage, I
said in his okay, great, and joins onto the neighbors
unit on either sides.

Speaker 5 (53:25):
He's basically right, yes, yeah, I'm with you. So typically
you're sort of replacing like for like, hopefully the falls
are all good. But look, you know, I really, seriously
I think you're better off getting someone getting two prices
and then deciding on which contractor you want to work with. Oh,
eight hundred, thank you for your question. Eight hundred eighty

(53:46):
teen eighty the number breck.

Speaker 18 (53:47):
Good morning, Yeah, good morning paper. Just an article we've
got in the Star newspaper here in christ Church off
a gentleman who was a licensed building practitioner who's been
married to pay four hundred and seventies house and a
compensation because he missed up a job.

Speaker 5 (54:05):
Saw that one.

Speaker 18 (54:06):
Yeah, Well, nowhere in that article does it say anything
about having his license taken off. Nowhere doesn't say the
building inspectors, and didn't say anything about the linear weather
boards being installed. Wrong. What's the point in having all

(54:28):
of these flash titles when these things are completely Overlook?
You know to me that.

Speaker 5 (54:35):
Although hold, we don't know whether he's a master builder,
and chances are it is not. Okay, So the other
thing is we're making the assumption that he and he
requested and had the inspections done. And I had to
read through the article, and I think it's possible that,

(54:56):
in fact, he didn't call for inspections despite the fact
that he knew that he had to have them done. Right. Yeah,
So I mean, and this happens, right, and particularly for
builders that are unscrupulous, they'll go, oh yeah, no inspector
passed it and that's fine, And this is where I
have to say, this is a sort of public service announcement.
One of the really good things with the some councils

(55:19):
now are increasingly doing electronic inspections right as in everything's
recorded electronically and at the end of the inspection, they
complete their report and they email a copy of the
report to the builder on site, but they can also
email it directly to the owner of the property, so
you've got insight into what's going on. I think that's

(55:40):
really really useful for owners to know that their inspections
are actually being undertaken as required.

Speaker 11 (55:49):
Ye.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
Well, I guess what would be really interesting is whether
or not the clients And you've got to feel really
sorry for them, you know. I mean, this is this
is this is a guy who's offered up a price
of one hundred and sixty six thousand dollars I think
off the top of the head to do two two
months work. Eighteen months later, and he's caused four hundred
thousand dollars worth of damage to the house. Yeah, I mean,

(56:13):
what a shamozzle.

Speaker 18 (56:15):
So look, well, what a thing to have to live for.

Speaker 5 (56:18):
Yeah, absolutely, really really frustrating.

Speaker 18 (56:21):
But it's just go ahead, sorry, go ahead, No, no,
you It just makes it makes people very very weary
of employing any trades people there. It sort of gives
all of us a bad name.

Speaker 5 (56:36):
Yep, it does, it does. And you know, all we
can all we can console ourselves with that is that
these cases are while they're not completely uncommon, they are
actually far and few between, right or few and far between.
So in that sense, I think, you know, most people,
most builders, most builders, most lbps behave hopefully responsibly and respectfully.

(57:00):
They get the job done, it's done to a suitable standard,
et cetera, et cetera. So these are a bit of
an out. But I have to say is it's an
entertaining way to whittle away a couple of hours is
to go to the LBP website and read through the
recent determinations to see the what complaints have been laid

(57:21):
against lbps and whether or not people have been found
to have breached there either their responsibility as an LBP
or Now of course we've got the code of ethics right,
and I think what we're going to see is we
going to see a lot more cases where lbps are
bought in front of the disciplinary board for their behavior,

(57:43):
their ethics rather than the actual building. So that's going
to be interesting.

Speaker 7 (57:48):
Okay, it was a good article.

Speaker 18 (57:50):
Thanks for enjoy your show.

Speaker 5 (57:51):
My pleasure. It's a pleasure. All the best to you.
Take care there. I think we might take a quick break.
I think it feels like that sort of time. We'll
come back and talk to Alan in just a moment.
There's a lot more detail to that story that Brett
was talking about just before, So I've gone back to
the article that I saw Star News. It's still up

(58:11):
online obviously, and it relates to a story about a
builder who took sixteen months to complete what should have
been a two month job, caused several hundred thousand dollars
worth of errors in the process, and has been found
personally liable to pick up the tab So builded by
the name of Simon Washburne, was hired by a christ
Church couple to replace parts of their roof as well

(58:34):
as to replace windows in cladding on their suburban home.
Quoted them a fixed price of one hundred and sixty
six thousand dollars and I'm quoting from the article. However,
a catalog of errors, as the clients described it, ensured
that over nearly eighteen months this the work blew out
to Washburn fixing all of the weatherboards incorrectly and installing

(58:56):
the windows in such way that they leaked. So the
couple have won a court order from the High Court
in christ Church that Washburn in this company will pay
them four hundred thousand dollars to fix the errors that
he made, as well as thirty thousand dollars in compensation.
So the person in question Washborn, he worked on it

(59:19):
as well as having several employees. Errors however, quickly began
to pile up, including windows installed out of square that
wouldn't open and leaks developing around other installed windows. There's
quite a lot more to the article. The other thing
that I noticed jumps out is that they went on

(59:39):
to replace a whole lot of the exterior cladding. The
building surveyor that was called in as an expert witness,
Rory Crosby as the building survey gave evidence to the
court that because of the way the weather boards were affixed,
they were highly unlikely to comply with the building code.
Because so much of the cladding was removed, consent would

(59:59):
have been needed rather than it being a like for
like replacement. As Washburne had claimed, and that is well known,
well accepted across the industry. So he's given sort of
poor advice to the owners saying, oh no, we don't
need a consent for that. That would explain why there
was no inspection process. And you know, the manufacturer's specification

(01:00:23):
is clearly to have this installed on a cavity. He
made the claim as reported in the Herald or reported
in the online article, saying that don't worry. You don't
have to worry about that. I've got complete confidence in
the product. You just do direct fix. So look, it's
a pity that the clients themselves didn't seek some advice

(01:00:46):
early on when they could see the project blowing out.
It may not have changed anything. But and the other
curious thing will be will they see a cent of
the around four hundred and thirty thousand dollars that this
person has been ordered to pay? That would be another
interesting question, right, Ella, good.

Speaker 11 (01:01:07):
Morning, Oh, good morning. Then I love the show, Thank
you very r And of course our little garden man
as well. It was just amazing.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
He's taller than Amaza. Anyway, how can I help my sonny? Mind? Ella?

Speaker 11 (01:01:23):
Well, I'm ringing it's about what I saw a neighbor
did in the past. I think in the past fortnight,
he's got a concret talking roofing. He's got those concrete tiles. Yes,
he got up and pressure washed it within an inch
of its legh. I thought I heard you say in
the last couple of weeks you were talking about similar

(01:01:44):
type things and that you need that they could create leaks,
et cetera, and you'd need to put a coating on top.
Did I hear that bright or more?

Speaker 5 (01:01:52):
I'm just yeah, in case so I hear what you're saying. No,
I think so. What I was talking about in that
particular instance was some concrete roof tiles that were installed
I think around nineteen seventy, nineteen sixty seven, right, so
you know, almost sixty years.

Speaker 11 (01:02:09):
Ago these would have been put in because I know
my house, Yes, if we took possession of it in
eighty two, that they're not that kind of tile that
might but the concreting one that the guy's got, yeah,
they would have been. That house was built about a
year after we took a possession of hours. Yes, we've

(01:02:30):
built eighty two.

Speaker 5 (01:02:32):
Okay, so you know what the comment that I was making,
is that an older roof like the one that I
was describing, Chances are the coating that's on the top
of it would have degraded, would have worn away over time,
in which case what you left with is a concrete
tile roof that's exposed, has no coating, and inevitably, if
you've got a dry piece of concrete and it rains,

(01:02:52):
moisture is going to be absorbed into that, right, and
that would be happening on an old roof. Now, your
neighbour who's got a concrete tile roof, but it might
have been installed in the nineteen eighties, it probably still
has reasonable coating on it, in which case cleaning it
in the way that you've described is not going to
shouldn't degrade the coating, shouldn't also get too much moisture

(01:03:14):
inside there. However, like I would say, in those instances,
the best way to clean roofs in that circumstance is
to use a pre treatment, right, So to use a
an anti mold or an antibacterial cleaning solution that you
apply onto the roof, let it activate and start working
on all of that organic material it's on there, and

(01:03:36):
then wash that off. So you know, possibly he could
have done something better. But what he's doing and what
I was describing are actually two different things.

Speaker 11 (01:03:47):
Okay, but he certainly didn't put on something like something
that you need to get tibet and.

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
Yeah, like a pre washed solution.

Speaker 11 (01:03:56):
I think through that, yeah, and then the other. But
he did and honestly he sprayed and sprayed and sprayed.
They but they have been Wait.

Speaker 5 (01:04:08):
Yeah, look, cleaning the roof is a good idea, but
you've got to know what you're doing, and you've got
to do it in such a way that you're not
going to, you know, either cause damage to the roof
or use so much water that you're it's going to
absorb moisture. It will still dry out and chances are
there will be no ill effect from it. But he's
probably done a lot of work that he didn't need.

Speaker 11 (01:04:29):
To do, right, But is there a product if he
decided he did want to put something on it that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
Look, there's a whole lot of sort of chemical treatments
for exterior clean right, and most of them would involve
an agent that will attack all of that natural growth,
all that mold and mildew that might grow. So I
think that that's right, yeah, I would do that.

Speaker 11 (01:04:56):
It's not the fact that it may have dried out
to such a state that it is going to become
I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
So.

Speaker 5 (01:05:03):
Okay, all right, nice view to call all you take
care and quick one from you, Jan Hello, Hi.

Speaker 8 (01:05:12):
Oh, Hello, Pete.

Speaker 19 (01:05:13):
Hi. I sent the picture and.

Speaker 5 (01:05:17):
I have to say, and I say that with the
greatest respects. I don't think I've ever seen a spreader
of such an enormous length in my life.

Speaker 11 (01:05:28):
No.

Speaker 19 (01:05:28):
Well, I've never seen anything like it either. That's why
I contacted you. But the thing you said, the gutthering
is probably set too low. So what do I ask
the roofer to do about this?

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
Yeah? Look, that was my and the photograph that you
sent me is basically heavy rain and the water just
pouring straight over the top of the spouting and coming
down in front of the door, right and yep, okay,
So in that sense, what's happening is the water is
jumping that front lip of the spouting. And what I
noticed from the photograph is that from the angle that
the photograph's taken, you can see the profile at the

(01:06:02):
end of all of the roofing sheets. It's not concealed
by the spouting and typically that's what we would expect
that you shouldn't really see the end of the roofing sheets.
That's what the position of the spouting traps. That water
stops it jumping that front lip of the spouting.

Speaker 20 (01:06:22):
Oh, I see, yeah, but.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
The challenge. The challenge is, as I can see on
the photograph as well, that's where the downpipe is, right.
So if you lift the spouting in that area, you're
going to end up creating fall that runs away from
the outlet, in which case you're going to have ponding
somewhere else. So it becomes an issue where it's almost
like all of the spouting needs to come off and

(01:06:48):
all of it needs to be relaid with the correct fall.
But you can't do that just by starting at one
end sometimes, right, So.

Speaker 19 (01:06:58):
It's not the roofing that's the problem, that's the spouting
of it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:02):
I think. So, I mean it might be that it
wasn't replaced.

Speaker 19 (01:07:07):
It was just the roofing is all new. And please,
I can see the profile as you call it, like
the little scarlets.

Speaker 8 (01:07:15):
At the end of the roofing.

Speaker 19 (01:07:17):
Yeah, I can see that everywhere. Actually, I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 5 (01:07:20):
Yeah, when you say the roof was replaced. Is it
replacing light for like, did you always have corrugated on Okay?

Speaker 19 (01:07:27):
Yes, and I've never had never had a problem with
leaking of the spouting above the front door, so it's
really surprised.

Speaker 5 (01:07:34):
Yeah, I wonder whether something's changed with the height of
the Yeah, the issue is the height of the Yeah,
I think that the issue is with the spouting. So
and that particular type of spouting. You might be able
to disconnect it and reuse most of it. You might

(01:07:56):
have to replaces here and there. So it's I think
the only answer is redo the spouting.

Speaker 19 (01:08:02):
Okay, So that's not a disaster. I need that it
always been all right before. Yeah, spouting, the routine has
been replaced, but not the spouting. That's trying to say.

Speaker 5 (01:08:16):
Yeah, that is a bit unusual, but that'll be the solution.

Speaker 19 (01:08:21):
They should be able to fix it without too much
drama then.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
Hopefully hopefully lovely. All right, thanks, Okay, you take care
right over, We're going to take short break and we're
going to talk to Tim Pearson straight after the break.
Today we're going to take a bit of a deep
dive into tribal TGV. Now I've used it the one
that I used. Four hundred wide panel comes in two
lengths two point four or three point seven to four

(01:08:47):
to oh long and it boasts a fifteen millimeter thickness.
It's got MDF on both outer layers and it's got
a strand care in a layer. Another person who's used
it as Tim Pearson, a builder from Lowburn in North
Canterbury who's been incorporating Tribal TGV into several of his projects.
I understand that you designed and built your own home

(01:09:08):
got creative using tribald TGV. And then Lance fitz Morris,
who's Duke in South Island sales rep said that you
were on the hunt for a durable lining solution discovered
tribal TGV on a Lake Ohause story from Archie Pro.
So the key advantage is for you for TGV from triboard.

Speaker 4 (01:09:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:09:29):
After seeing that icle on the triboard, I talked to
crime into using it on a large rating ceiling and
I've gotten impressed how it went together and its durability
and there's no need for any subtraits, so like a
jib supper and it looks really good. So we ended
up using it on our.

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
Own home in terms of the installation process for triboard
TGV compared to other materials, what's it like in terms
of time complexity? And also tell me about the fixing process.

Speaker 20 (01:09:58):
Yeah, I found it pretty quick and easy to install.
So I cuddle the boards using a plunge saw because
the triboard t you see, it's four hinted white and
you can't really use a drop saw because it's didn't
cut that wide. So I made a square of an
old track for the plunge saw, and I found that
quick and efficient way to cut it. And I could

(01:10:19):
also do miters on the external corners of that plunge saw,
so I ended up gluing and secret nailing it through
the tongue, so that cuts out lots of filling and
sanding of holes. And because the boards are only faunt
and wide, they're quite easy for one person to do
the installation. And there was very little waste compared to
plus board, and all the off cuts were used in

(01:10:41):
a log burner.

Speaker 5 (01:10:43):
That's fantastic. Now, which lengths of triboard TGV did you
choose for your projects and what was the thinking behind that.

Speaker 20 (01:10:51):
Well, in a skillion roof in our place, and we
ran the boards vertically, so I designed the house for
it with that board length and mind, so the internal
walls were now higher than three seven forty and it
worked out really all the off cuts use under the
windows or above doors or boltcats, so it's very little wasist.

Speaker 5 (01:11:11):
And what did you do in terms of treating the
tryboard TGV? Any tips for people considering?

Speaker 20 (01:11:17):
So we primed the boards both sides for installation and
been careful not to put too much paint in the
groove of the tone. And before we fitted our ceiling plow,
we sprayed the tryboard. Once it was fitted, and we've
done three coats and we sanded between the coats. But
you can use a roller and a brushed it into
the grooves as well.

Speaker 5 (01:11:38):
So it sounds like you didn't just use it in
the house. But you've also got the classic man Cave
project going on and a client opted for a natural
try board. Look, what were the key takeaways from that project?

Speaker 8 (01:11:51):
Yeah, the pride.

Speaker 20 (01:11:51):
Board there was a perfect product for the man cave
is still flaming, so if you use plywood, we would
have had to wing out all the edges for the
play so that the TGV being long, we need a
very little blocking, and I use hard and steel breads
and glue. The direct fix it to steel framing so
it saved a lot of time. And the tring it

(01:12:13):
for durable surface. And his man cave so you can
fix his rugby jersey's up and dark board in that
and screw anything to the walls anywhere you want it.
It's really tough.

Speaker 5 (01:12:22):
Hey, so you're obviously a fan. Have you got any
other upcoming projects? Will you'll be using triboard TGV again.

Speaker 10 (01:12:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:12:30):
I'm building a client's batch over at Lake Brunner and
we're not going to use any class sport on the
house at all. It's all going to be a TGZ
and the walls and the garage and it's got a
loft above the garage and it's got really tight access
so the triboard only being forward of mill is wide,
it's really easy to get up into that tight space.

Speaker 5 (01:12:50):
Yeah, that's brilliant. I've used it on a small cabin
that I built as well and did a similar thing
walls and ceiling like you pre primed it, gave it
a sand, put it up too, top coats and it does.
It looks fantastic and it's got that durability, I think,
which is what we've all come to appreciate from Triyboard.
Tim all the very best with that upcoming project and

(01:13:11):
thanks for your time this morning. Than thanks, Peter, pleasure,
delightful guy. Tim. And just outside of christ Jets there
and the j and our product that we're talking about
there is Triyboard, which is Triboard TGV. So there are
four hundred wide panels and I did. I put it
up in a little cabin that we built a couple
of years ago. And yeah, it's a very useful product.

(01:13:34):
I can tell you that, oh eight one hundred and
eighty ten eighty the number to call Craig talk to
me about showers.

Speaker 13 (01:13:40):
Yeah, also a quickly a friend mine is a border
and in some of that triboard left over actually now
turned it into bookshelves.

Speaker 5 (01:13:46):
A brilliant actually, I've made bookshelves out of it as well.
In fact, my work bench, I've got my old workshop right.
I had the traditional sort of carpenter's bench, you know,
two bits of timber and then a lower piece in
the middle, you know, like you had it would work school.
And then about it was twenty odd years ago I

(01:14:06):
put a bit of twenty one mile triboard on the
top of it, right, because I wanted a flat surface,
and I'm still using it, and I cut it, and
I grind on it, and I sand on it, and
I chisel on it and all the rest of it.
And I'm thinking, in another couple of years, i might
flip it over and I'll keep another twenty years.

Speaker 8 (01:14:22):
Out of it.

Speaker 5 (01:14:22):
So yeah, the other side, yeah, yeah, anyway, right, showers.

Speaker 13 (01:14:26):
Yeah, yeah, freemment. I'm just forget the behalf of appearance.
I'm going to shower. Put in one of these free
standing ones. Yeah, you know, like the weather glass doors
and all. They're about probably ten years ago, yep. And
there were saying, well, you notice when you pops in
the show and now the shore sometimes before is a
bit of a squeak in it. Yep, it doesn't leak.
And I'm just thinking, I'm pretty seen under those they
have like a foam, like a polystreine, fine thing, and

(01:14:48):
don't they some of.

Speaker 5 (01:14:49):
Them might, Like I installed one about two years ago
that didn't have the foam. It just had a whole
series of rings. And the real challenge is because what
you want them to do is to have a decent
beat of adhesive under there, right, so you don't get squeaking.
Over time, you apply the ceilant to the underside of
the tray and then as you drop it down sometimes

(01:15:12):
the ceilant comes off, and you know it's like it's
tricky to do getting rid of that squeak. Kind of
tricky because you know, how do you like, is it
a timber floor. Could you get underneath and squirt some more? Okay?

Speaker 13 (01:15:27):
Yeah, I said there was probably just general movement. After time,
he's not worried about he's asked about it. I said,
it's probably just everything sibling and it's nothing. It's not leaking,
so there's not leaking. Don't worry about it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:37):
And I think that that's very wise advice. If it's
not leaking, just leave it. It might be a little
bit annoying, and I know it feels a bit funny,
you know, the shower tray moving around, that sort of thing,
But in general, I think it'll be fine.

Speaker 13 (01:15:52):
It's just in a basement, so so they don't use
it pretty often. Just he's got a he does a
lot of wood working with lab and there down the basement,
so he does the little bowls and stuff from that
for hobbies and that nice. It's a shout to sort
of show before it comes up and Mom goes, what
you bring. It's just a clean off. But you see
he's noticed that it squeaks a bit, probably this movement

(01:16:13):
with over time. He goes, it's not leaking. I see
it was not leaking. Don't It's kind of like I've
always been brought up. If it does, it was not broken.
Don't drive into it could cause more problems.

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
I'm laughing because I love the fact that, you know,
he can go and have a quick shower downstairs. Because
I came back from doing a job the other day
and you know when and walked, came and took my
boots off, went into the bathroom, uh you know, stripped off,
jumped in the shower, and then I was tidying up afterwards,
and these these bits of grass and depre all over

(01:16:45):
the bathroom floor. And that'd be awesome to be able
to strip off outside and have a shower before you
come inside the house. That's great. Yeah, that's what I
love that, all right, that's awesome.

Speaker 13 (01:16:55):
That's what I thought it was. I thought moving a.

Speaker 5 (01:16:58):
Little bit annoying, but I leave well enough alone. All
right mate, all the best you Craig. You take care.
Actually someone suggested it could be the shower is rubbing
against the bottom plate, because often when these are installed,
you actually cut out the lining around the base of
the shower so that the shower is recessed in underneath
the wall, lining, plaster board, whatever it's going to be,

(01:17:19):
and sometimes that can rub at that point. So thank
you very much for that as well. Jim, good morning.

Speaker 4 (01:17:25):
Get two things. The woman that it's got the problems, Yes,
the water going over the top. She couldn't put something
on the in the gather to list the heights of
the outside, you know, instead of.

Speaker 5 (01:17:45):
I know what you're saying. It like a little shield
or something like that that directs. Yeah, but it's all
about Hoki.

Speaker 4 (01:17:50):
A yeah, it is right, yep, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:17:53):
Let's stay away from Hoky.

Speaker 4 (01:17:56):
The other thing is I've got a growth on the
corrugated iron roof. It is shaded by trees. I'd call itchen.
I don't know if that's right or not, but it's
very flat on the roof. What can I spray it
with to get it off?

Speaker 5 (01:18:16):
To be fair, I've heard that wit and Forget works
really well on it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:20):
All right, yeah, okay, and.

Speaker 5 (01:18:22):
Then you know you know that it's not going to
cause other problems in a major way, yep. So yeah,
spray it with that if you're using the water for drinking,
like if you've got water tanks. No otherwise no bi
all accounts works really well. And I've got the same thing,
a little awning roof that's got some clear light on
it back porch and it's got a bit of liken
on it. I've applied it and it's gone so okay, yes, okay,

(01:18:48):
take care I see it then. And Chris a very
good morning.

Speaker 21 (01:18:52):
Oh good morning, Pete.

Speaker 5 (01:18:53):
How are you very well in yourself?

Speaker 21 (01:18:56):
We had a house built for us by a building
company about two and a half years ago. We were
going to move the house to right on the beach
up here in the farm. Also, of course, it was
all stainless steel fixings, et cetera. The hardy plank, the
seven mill hardy plank that's on the house. We supposedly
use stainles steel flat head to hold it, hold it together, yes,

(01:19:21):
and then painted. Now two and a half years down
the track, I'm starting to see all rusty nail heads
coming through the paint now might this be that one?
They may have used galve clouds to hold the hardy
board on, or it's had too little paint put on it.
We suspect that it's in a very you know, like

(01:19:42):
maybe just a single top coat.

Speaker 20 (01:19:44):
On the house.

Speaker 21 (01:19:48):
How can I fix these rusty nail heads on these?
And is it the rest of the house as well?
Just that I'm looking out at the moment.

Speaker 5 (01:19:55):
It would be interesting perhaps to try and go to
an area that's you know, not well trafficked and see
if you could pull a nail out to determine exactly
what it was, you know, so you could just scratch
the head of the nail. Right, So it's a flathead, right,
So go to an area with a bit of sandpaper,
send it back and see whether or not it is

(01:20:16):
actually a stainless steel flathead, or whether it is in
fact a galvanized flathead. Now galvanized flathead might actually be compliant,
but inevitably.

Speaker 21 (01:20:27):
The zone heavy the spray zone we're in, which and
it was specified in that.

Speaker 5 (01:20:32):
Hardy place, Okay, if it was specified. Now I'm going
to have to go to stay on the line because
I want to crash into the news like I usually do.
We're back straight after the break Ruddio, Good morning, Welcome
back to the program. We're just going to wrap up
the conversation with Chris that we started before the news
at eight o'clock. So, Chris, I'm wondering whether you you

(01:20:52):
mentioned that obviously the work had a consent, in which
case what was specified is what's required to have been used.
What will be curious to find out is are the
nails that have been used for the fixing of the
siding stainless dealers specified or perhaps if they use galvanized.
If they've used galvanized, then that becomes a really big
problem for the person that nailed all of that siding

(01:21:14):
on because I think you'd make a good case to say, actually,
you've got to come and replace them, or at least
come and treat all of the nails that are there,
so you know, even like I've noticed, if sometimes when
you're using galvanized fixings right, because you're pounding on the
top of them, it does tend to break down a
little bit of the galvanizing, so it exposes a bit

(01:21:37):
of the metal. That's not unusual saying that, and it's
a bit of a frustration I've used stainless steel pins
in a like a finishing gun for putting on trim outside,
and I've noticed they've rusted, So you know what standard
of stainless steel to be fair, I bought some stuff.
I'm not even go there, so it's a long story.

Speaker 7 (01:22:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 21 (01:22:04):
So at the moment, how do I there's about twenty
or so nails on the south side of the house, yep,
and like we washed the house down once a month
because we live.

Speaker 5 (01:22:15):
About fantastic from the beach.

Speaker 11 (01:22:17):
Yes, and.

Speaker 21 (01:22:21):
I've noticed that the nails and the site are also
starting to show that rust. So is it that paint
put on or is it that they've cheaked out?

Speaker 5 (01:22:34):
I look, I saw the other day someone had fixed
five er cent safite sheet with jib clouds. Okay, right,
so I'm hoping that we're not going to go down
that path with your job. But you know, I have
seen that sort of thing, and you know, while they

(01:22:54):
have some corrosion resistance, they're not designed for outside.

Speaker 21 (01:22:59):
Can I approach the building company that built this house
for us?

Speaker 6 (01:23:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:23:03):
I think so, but it's probably worth getting someone else
to do a bit of due diligence for you. So
maybe another experienced builder or a building surveyor to come
have a look. So I expose the nail head and
see whether it's actually stainless.

Speaker 7 (01:23:17):
Right.

Speaker 5 (01:23:17):
If it's not stainless and it should have been, then
that's a problem for the contractor not following the specifications.
If it is stainless and it's still corroding, then maybe
that's an issue for the manufacturer or the supplier of
the product. Is this really up to spec Let's say
you've got the whole house, it's all been fixed off
with galvanized flatheads that maybe should have been stainless. Then

(01:23:40):
I would say it's probably going to be a case
of getting the contractor to come through, expose the heads
of all of the nails, some of the nails, apply
a rust kill treatment to them, and then repaint the house.
And if they can't get the patching right, then it's
a repaint of the entire thing, not just the individual
nails in the area around them.

Speaker 21 (01:24:00):
Yeah, but it.

Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
Should it should last more than it has.

Speaker 21 (01:24:04):
Yeah, a building company name the name, but they apparently
they had an LBP that came on site from time
to time to check up like they do and signed
it off. I've got the name of the guy because
there was some problem with some of the framing to internally,
which I approached him and he was okay about that. Yes,

(01:24:24):
but also obviously a house should have an undercoat and
two top coats on. That would be industry standards.

Speaker 5 (01:24:32):
I would say, so yep.

Speaker 4 (01:24:34):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 21 (01:24:34):
So can I take we think very much that it's
only had one coat of top coat on it. Can
I take a piece of the paint to someone like
Razine to see how thick the paint is that's been
put on?

Speaker 5 (01:24:48):
Yeah, there's it's there's laboratory testing for that, so it's
quite a process. But yes, I believe that you could.
Now quick tip before we go, because I've got an
interview to do. Easy way to check for stainless steels
is with a magnet. If it sticks, it ain't stainless,
that's well. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 7 (01:25:07):
All right.

Speaker 5 (01:25:07):
I love the teks all the best, mate, Thank you
very much for your call. Now I'm delighted to welcome
to the show this morning. Someone who's I read an
article written by Storm some weeks ago and thought and
they've had a number of conversations about ventilation. So Storm
harp them a very good morning and welcome to the show.

Speaker 22 (01:25:28):
Good morning today morning.

Speaker 5 (01:25:30):
I'm very well, So let's talk ventilation, which I think
in all of the ten years of doing the show,
I've never had a ventilation expert on, so I'm kind
of excited. And where I wanted to start is what
is ventilation? And how is it that we've sort of
got to a place where suddenly ventilation isn't just opening
the windows anymore.

Speaker 22 (01:25:51):
Yeah, Look, it's an excellent question, and for those of
us in the ventilation industry, we do wish it had
been that ten years ago. But the honest answer is
ventilation is moving into and out of us. So if
they've be air and air out, and you're probably at
first phrases like clean air and fairlier out, but the

(01:26:14):
actual practice of ventilation can be done in a whole
lot of ways, which is probably why we've not not
really talked about it too much in the past. And
also you asked the question, and it's a really good one.
How is it that we're only really coming to discuss
it now and with such urgency? And the reason for

(01:26:34):
that is we're building differently and we're living differently. But
I don't want to accuse just the building differently that
I've got to be really careful of that because some
people are going, well, it's because we're building differently. Ventilation
has always been a problem. We're just noticing it more
now because it's turning up in our lives physically.

Speaker 5 (01:26:56):
And I think part of that is kind of if
we take an analytical view of the type of houses
that we have built for so long in New Zealand.
So you know my house, I'm in an old villa.
It's got no well, it never had any building paper.
It's got lots of drafts and cracks and that sort
of thing. In a sense, it's kind of accidental ventilation.
It's drafty, right, and so it kind of ventilates itself,

(01:27:21):
but not in any controllable way. Whereas today, if we've
got a concrete slab, we've got timber framing, we've got
either a rigid wrap or a tape around or a
flexible barrier around. We've got a roof with an underlay,
we've got aluminium jewelery that should be well sealed. Those
sorts of things we're not air tight. And I'm very
conscious about not claiming that our houses are air tight,

(01:27:43):
because that's a very specific phrase and so on. But
increasingly they're not as drafty as they used to be,
so ventilation suddenly becomes something you actually need to do
rather than it happening accidentally.

Speaker 22 (01:27:56):
Absolutely, and you've kind of hit the nail on the heads.
There was the old villas. Yes, they were a little
bit drafty.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
You know.

Speaker 22 (01:28:03):
You can go into an old villa, but your hand
next to the joy in the window and you can
feel the ear moving, and that's moving because the wind
pressure or the wind on the outside of the building
has created what we call the pressure differential or kind
of like a heavier side of the building and a
lighter side of the building, and the air wants to
roll down hills. So you've got this this natural air movement.

(01:28:26):
But also in old villas, you had other planned gaps.
Did you have a fireplace in your place?

Speaker 18 (01:28:31):
We do, Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 22 (01:28:34):
So that's got a chimney and that's not blocked off.
It's got a high and low windows, so you'll have
the windows right up the top that you can open
up to get air moving. When you've got heat at
the top and cooler ear down the bottom, and it'll
shift air out of the house. So we even designed
and oriented our buildings differently as well. So we did

(01:28:55):
build a lot differently and we started putting you've got
the concerte slab now, and you've got well sealed windows.
You're not going to get those drafts through them anymore.
And we're also using different like rigid air barreas on
the outside of our buildings have a different We call
it vapor permeability, which is basically how much moisture can
can move through a material. So our whole house is

(01:29:21):
using different materials, different construction methods, and you know, we
don't want to say it's air tightness or you're tight anymore,
but we're definitely not getting natural air movements, not in
the same way in words.

Speaker 5 (01:29:35):
That even I can understand. Could you try and explain
to me vapor permeability, because it's a concept that I'm
beginning to get my head around, but I'm still staggered
in a sense by the notion that vapor in air
can migrate through us. What I think is a solid surface,
my exterior wall.

Speaker 22 (01:29:56):
Well, let's use something that's not quite a solid surface.
And I've ended up with tetwel so so there with me.
You know, you get a kind of maybe a cheap
new tea towel and you put water on and the
water on it yep, and then a different tea tail
with a different wave will allow that water to sink
and faster and potentially drop through. Now, eventually both surfaces

(01:30:19):
soak that water up, but that wave, that kind of
whole construction of that material causes a different reaction. So
what happens with a fermiability is it's a little bit
like that. I'm going sideways to kind of get to
the point. But is that water that's in our ear
and we have water in our air all of the time.

(01:30:40):
We can't see it, and it's healthy a lot of
the time. It's a healthy amount of amount of water
and out. Yeah, but it pushes against those exterior surfaces,
and those surfaces are prepared to take on a little
bit of that moisture, kind of like clothes in your wardrobe, right,
you've got dipped them in the part, but if you've
got a damp house, you might find mold in your wardrobe.

(01:31:01):
And so that ear is pushing against those surfaces, and
different materials have different call it weaves because it's you
for ttail example, and essentially that moisture can migrate into
the surface. And so in our older styles we had
we had a kind of a looser weave of material
and now we've got a solid one.

Speaker 5 (01:31:23):
Is that Yeah? No, absolutely, And then you point you
started to talk there about mold, because this is something
that I was doing a presentation yesterday and in various
brand surveys and housing condition surveys, you know, close to
half of New Zealanders report having mold on the inside
of their houses. Ventilation and mold. What's the correlation.

Speaker 22 (01:31:49):
Yeah, it's it's all about the moisture in the air
that so I talked before about we've all got moisture
in the air, and we'll we normally have it in
there and you'll see it on your weather applot percentage
relative humidity, So you might have over summer we get
up eighty only sims up in Auckland.

Speaker 7 (01:32:08):
We're not.

Speaker 22 (01:32:08):
It's a lot drier down in Queenstown. And then there's
this healthy amount of moisture that's sitting between about forty
to sixty percent relative humidity. And I'll stress the relative
because relative humidity is actually it's a percentage based on
the temperture of your ear. So the air warms up,
the relative humidity goes down, even if you don't change

(01:32:29):
the moisture contents. But you've got this moisture sitting in
your ear and we're trapped in these these boxes, and
they are only beautiful boxes, which you've got a good artist.
And we're trapped in these boxes. And we've been breathing,
we've been cooking, and we've been cleaning, and we've been showering,
and hopefully we've used our extractor fans, but we've generated

(01:32:51):
a certain moisture level that's not left the space. And
the longer those surfaces that close in your wardrobe, you're
building materials. The corners stay at a high humidity level
and it's somewhere between. It's about eighty percent normally over time.
But even the longer it stays with that moisture, the

(01:33:11):
more likely you are to get mold. And the temperature
doesn't matter. It's all about that moisture.

Speaker 5 (01:33:18):
Right, And the most efficient way of removing that moisture
from our environment is through extraction.

Speaker 22 (01:33:27):
The most efficient way to get specific moisture, so range
should for your cooking. It's a big grader. In our home.
You must do about three liters a day. It's another
Brands bit of Brands research there through cooking in your home,
and you've got another one and a half liters the
persons per shower. So as long as you've got those
extractions and they're working, and I want to stress that

(01:33:50):
they're working, then you should be removing the bulk of
the moisture. But what's really interesting is our breathing actually
creates a lot of moisture as well. We don't have
an extraction fan following us around home, so I think
three liters of from cooking, we actually get three liters
of moisture just from breathing in your home, and yet
we've got a fan specifically to remove the cooking moisture

(01:34:15):
and nothing to remove what we're generating. So ventilation is
really really critical because we've got to bring in that
clean air which is at a lower humidity level, lower
lower moisture level and remove the bad ear. And if
we're not changing it over, it does stay trapped in
our house with us, and in our new builds it

(01:34:37):
stays trapped more because yes, air tightness is one thing,
but air tightness is important for power savings as well.
So I would wouldn't stop doing that. But also we
have less windows, we have less opportunity to cross slow
to a crossloads where air can move from one side,
that pressure difference where wants to go down, air can

(01:34:58):
move from one side of the house to the other.
We shut our internal doors, so you've only got windows
on one side. Anyway, it's noisy outside and without having
their air movements through the house, that moisture builds up,
particularly in corners with their movements, and you get your
mold fnaing.

Speaker 7 (01:35:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:35:16):
Right, we're going to talk a little bit about ventilation
systems in a moment. My guest is Storm Harpham, and
ventilation experts down the line will come back to you
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Speaker 4 (01:36:29):
Does it be?

Speaker 6 (01:36:31):
Now?

Speaker 5 (01:36:31):
My guest? This morning is storm happen and we have
been talking about ventilation. I wish I could show you
the texts that are coming in because people have started
to ask all of these questions about hang on, how
does this arrive? And why is that happening? And what
about if the temperature outsides this and it's inside is that?
And so on? So I think, to be fair, I

(01:36:54):
would love to have you back and then we can
kind of continue to sort of unpack this thing. And
I guess what I find fascinating about the discussion over
the last couple of years is something that we've assumed
is kind of just happening all of the time, and
it works because we're building differently, which is good. We
now have to be a lot more active in the

(01:37:14):
management of ventilation. I know you're active in terms of,
you know, a sort of a lobby group, let's say,
or an advocacy group for this. Where if someone wanted
to start reading something that's digestible but evidence based around ventilation,
where's a good place to start.

Speaker 22 (01:37:31):
Oh, that's a really good question. Without wanting to just
kind of push you towards what we've done. We've got
a few articles that we've published trying to go back
to the basic So what is moisture, where is the
humidity coming from? How do I control it in my home?
What types of ventilation systems should I use? So we've
got those on the blogs on smartvent website, but also

(01:37:54):
Brands has some really really good resources on ventilation. There's
some resources out from if you look at advice from
the Building Council, they've got a design guide and actually
there's some urban design guys as well for Auckland and
other other parts of the country where they talk about ventilation,

(01:38:18):
some of them will talk about windows and how to
use windows. But we have t windows correctly, so really
really look at what that means, because a lot of
people go, oh, can't they just open the window? Well, yes,
if you're there, to open it and you're going to
get the right amount of flow and the winds right
and the noise isn't too loud. Yes, So yeah, but

(01:38:38):
online has some really great resources.

Speaker 5 (01:38:41):
Yeah, it'll be fantastic. Storm. I really appreciate your time
and your expertise, and we will because next time we
get you on I think we'll open the lines for
text questions and go through some of the stuff. And
then also this whole issue around ventilation systems, because there's
lots of them on the market. Now, which one's going
to work best for you? What's negative pressure, what's balanced pressure,

(01:39:04):
what's positive pressure? What does it all mean? We'll unpack
that with Storm and our next conversation. Thank you very
much for your time this morning, brilliant. Thanks, it's pleasure
all the best, Storm Harp And like I say, a
few actually LinkedIn had a couple of articles that Storm
wrote which are very very good as well, that's where
I first sort of started reading what she's been writing

(01:39:25):
about ventilation, which is a big issue, and I think
it's going to be all of the talk at the
moment about New Zealand housing and houses overheating and houses sweeting,
and all of these sorts of things all end up
coming back or being linked into ventilation and what we
do about good air quality inside our houses. So really
looking forward to continuing the conversation, speaking about conversations. Let's

(01:39:48):
get talking to a recline past and just a.

Speaker 1 (01:39:51):
Moment for more from the Resident Builder with Peter Wolfcamp.
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