September 7, 2010 • 19 mins
As a science writer, Mary Roach has penned books on everything from cadavers to astronauts. In this episode, Allison and Robert interview Mary Roach about the future of space exploration. Listen in to learn what you'll need to pack for a trip to Mars.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff
works dot com. Hey guys, I'm welcome to stuff from
the Science Lab. This is Alice Madamel, the science editor
how stuff works dot com. And this is Robert Lamb,
science writer at how stuff works dot com. And uh,
(00:24):
and here at Stuff in the Science Lab. We're big
fans of Mary Roach, who if you're not familiar with
her work, she's a science writer and she's written the
book Stiff, Spook, Bunk, and now Packing for Mars, The
Curious Science of Life in the Void. Yeah, and that
was released as the summer Yeah. Her her three previous
(00:44):
books are all great. Uh. Stiff deals with the story
of human cadavers. Interestingly, when we interviewed her, she was
saying that she didn't think that book would sell. Yeah, yeah,
she well, she's been surprised at at how some of
her follow up books didn't like instantly surpassed that one,
because you know, cadaver's Okay. Then the second one, Spook,
(01:05):
was about um science and the supernatural, which is also
a really great book. I read that one. And then
the third one was about sex balk and uh, and
she she was sure that one was going to be
the big you know, the one that's gonna be even
more of a hit. But but Stiff is remaining like
the colossal best seller of the of her work so far.
And they're all they're all great. Yeah, yeah, we highly
(01:26):
advocate reading them. Um. So we did have the chance
to interview her, and uh, we're gonna share some of
that interview with you guys today. So I thought one
of the things that she did really well is just
kind of breaking down the mythology of the astronaut and
making astronauts into just regular old humans. Here she is
talking about the first astronaut she met. I remember, um,
(01:50):
my first astronaut. You know, I was down at Johnson
Space Center and I had never I've never met an
astronaut and it was the skuy Lee Moore and he's
just this this regular guys wearing kind of a yeah
Hawaiian shirt and cheenose and brown shoes. And I was like, oh,
I'm going to meet an astroid and I meet this
kind of like oh my god, they're just people for starters,
(02:12):
you know, so the whole like mythology, Uh this doesn't
you know. You meet you meet them and right away
you realize they're just they're just people. And then you
start to learn about what they go through all the
things that you were saying, plus some of the you know,
kind of worrisome physiological changes, and it's yeah, very quickly
ceases to be this high glamour job. Yeah. And then
(02:34):
you asked her if there was one particular example of
a space absurdity that really just made her side. Yeah,
this is my next book. This is what I'm going
to explore next. I think that there was that paper
I came across fairly early on, when I was pretty
sure I was going to do it, but not entirely sure.
It came across this paper from n on Space Nutrition
(02:56):
and Related waste problems, and it was these guys sort
of thinking outside box about Mars, and they were, you know,
because you're it's two to three your mission and food
is you can't pack lots of delicious food and you know,
launch it for a crew of six or three years.
So they were thinking like, well, we could we could
create clothing out of edible keratin fibers that they could
(03:19):
wear for a while and then when they were done
wearing it, they could eat it. And then there was
the guy who was saying that, um, uh well, they
could um actually be eating pieces of the spacecraft. We
could you make these edible proteins for some of the
interiors of that we won't be neating after we've been
(03:40):
on the surface of Mars when we were coming home.
We'll just eat that, eat that module. And you know,
just this sort of plus the you know, the the
very very extreme recycling that would have to be done
in terms of, um, drinking your own sweat and urine.
Uh that I think at that point I was like, oh, yeah,
this is this Narry roach country. So of course we
(04:00):
had to ask her if she was a space geet
going in to writing the book or if she became
one in the process, And it turns out she was
a little bit of one beforehand, but uh but in
writing the book, she found herself like watching NASA TV
all the time. So so here's what she had to
say about that. I was a space a little bit
of a space geek. I never watched Star Trek and
(04:22):
I wasn't a science fiction reader. But I did a
story at this for Discover magazine years ago where I
went to the neutral Buoyancy tank, which is that just
it's like the size of the Gulf of Mexico. It's
not it's heat, but it's this huge swimming pool that
they submerged pieces of the International Space Station and then
have the astronauts rehearse really addressed rehearsal, wearing their actual suits,
(04:45):
um rehearse all the moves that they're going to do.
And I remember just being kind of overwhelmed by the
delightful geekiness of it all. And you know, and I
am kind of a geek, so um NASA was kind
of the magical kingdom in a way. I was like, all,
get all this stuff, you know, just there's just all
manner of things you never would imagine existing are down there.
(05:07):
We were talking about how the public's perception and enthusiasm
for space exploration has kind of waxed and waned over
the years. You even mentioned to say that it might
be a little boring now. Definitely been boring for for
a while there, because they started out really exciting with
space exploration. You know, these people are going out in
the space, they're getting stuff down their cowboys, you know,
(05:28):
and then there was this long period of kind of
to most people, I think, kind of boring science experiments
in space so yeah, we had to ask Mary where
where where she thought we are now and where we're going? Yeah,
and how we could turn things around fair space exploration.
I think we're at a point where we could turn
it around and make it not boring by going somewhere new,
(05:50):
you know. I think that the the Moon base UM plan,
the plan to go back and people for six months
or more to live on the moon. UM. I think
just because it's the Moon and people feel the general
public feels like, well, we've we've been there, we went
there seven times, um, why why are we going back?
I think that um to just simply to go somewhere new.
(06:13):
If not, if they you know, the partisan bickering and
the policy and the politics can sort of if they
can sort out where they where we're gonna what we're
gonna do, where we're gonna go, and I think you
you really and it's somewhere new, you really could start
to capture people's imaginations again. Uh, it wouldn't doesn't have
to be Mars, I mean near with that story, just
(06:34):
something that is um different and exciting for people. I
think it's still even when we were in orbit, um
a lot of really really interesting cool stuff was going on.
It just doesn't always get reported that way or reported
at all. So we we also asked her how astronauts
have changed, or rather the role of the astronaut has
(06:56):
changed again from the cowboys of the rights off to
the more you know, the more the scientist astronaut we
have today. Um, so she talked a little about about that,
about the class between the old school and the new
school scientist. They couldn't be more different. It really was
eighty degree turn on on on what makes the perfect
(07:18):
astronaut because you got the you know, early on one guy,
so it didn't matter if he didn't play well with others.
You have one guy in an a mission that's a
few hours long, and so what you want is somebody
who's aggressive, brave, unfazed by high risk, uh able to
deal with an emergency, calm and an emergency. That that
sort of the right stuff, which became very much the
(07:40):
wrong stuff by the time we get to the Shuttle
era where you've got or the I S S even
more to the point where you've got six months and
longer missions and five six people, then you really don't
you don't want that kind of personality. You would want
somebody's you know, the list of attributes I love some
of them, like ability to form stable and quality interpersonal
(08:01):
relationship because they've liked John Glenn. Can you imagine area
that being even the word relationships entering into it, you know, flexibility, fairness, empathy,
all these things that you don't you don't really associate
with the right stuff. But then going going into the future,
if we do go to Mars, then you then you
(08:22):
kind of want both of those because it's going to
be a bigger crew, so you want people who get
along well in the group. But then again you also
needs a self starter and somebody who can deal with
emergencies with sort of leadership and calm, you know that
that whole right stuff things. So I don't know how
they're going to find up these people. I mean, it's
kind of a super human combination. People are usually one
(08:44):
or the other. Speaking of the perfect astronaut, we went
through this crazy list of physiological traits um that some
space agencies think are important for astronauts to have. And
it was because it was a funny exchange. So here's
this chatting about how that astronaut might turn out if
all the various random traits were taken into account. Yeah,
(09:05):
there's all these you could get well, and they're they're
talking about you. She look for people whose intestinal flora
did not produce methane because that's explosive. So you gotta
look at what kind of what their farts contain, you
know what, somebody who's snores, because that wakes everybody up.
You don't want something with bad breath. That's the Chinese
Space Agency. Also African American women, Uh well, we're after
(09:27):
women in general because they consume less oxygen than food.
African Americans sticker bone density so uk. So you want
a deaf, mute African American woman who does not snore
and doesn't produce methane. And then on top of that
the right personality. Of course, as you know, science writers
and science hitters. We had to ask her about her
(09:48):
her method uh in writing this book and really kind
of writing all of them. And what's amazing about her
writing is that she's not just summarizing journal findings or
you know, kind of twisting the research into a new
light or even um, I mean, she is very much
translating it into layman's terms, much as we hope to do.
But she's getting to people in the flesh, she's talking
(10:10):
to them, she's making them come alive on the page.
And also Mary Roach is very much a character in
her own books. You know, it's like you're really right
there with Mary in each of these as she goes
out and talks to these people, you know, and uh
and really learns, so you know what the dirt is
on everything from corpses to going into space. Yeah, so
here she is talking a little bit about storytelling and
(10:31):
her method of putting together books and why science isn't boring.
I mean, when I contact people frequently, they say, oh, well,
I'll send you a paper and we can talk, and
I'm always having to write back and say, now, it
doesn't really work very well for readers that way. I
need to actually come visit you and be there and
(10:52):
see what you're doing and have a scene with people
who are talking to each other and doing things. And
even that, isn't that a traditional book narrative? Usually that's
a through line all the way through the book, and
that is Yeah, that's another way to do it, and
probably the best way. But even just having a chapter
by chapter a setting in a narrative framework to hang
(11:14):
the facts on helps a lot and getting people interested
in science because people have this notion that science is boring,
which kind of blows my mind, because science is scientists,
it's you. You know, it's your your audience, your backyard,
it's your dog, it's the weather, it is it is everything,
And how how could you possibly think it's boring? But
(11:35):
you know, it's often along scientists because they're at such
a high level of understanding it. It is boring to
the general public to pick up a paper from a journal.
So you do have to as a science writer, which
is a title like I guess I were, But um,
you do have to find ways to make it accessible
(11:56):
and make it real and storytelling is I think the
best way. You know, she really got some amazing details
and stuff that we never hear about, at least not
regularly and and not certainly not stuff that NASA broadcasts. Um,
pretty much the messy realities of motion, sickness and going
to the bathroom in space and all sorts of good
stuff like that. So I was asking her if astronauts
(12:16):
were relieved to finally lift the curtain on the reality
of life and space and sometimes smelly reality of life
and space well, the cosmonauts in general are just very straightforward,
just just lay it on the line kind of people.
There's less concern I think about what is the proper
(12:38):
thing to say? Maybe, so just culturally, they're a little
more free wheeling in their conversations. And in fact, I
was surprised by if you sit down and have a
conversation with an astronaut, even an active astronaut, not retired,
it's always easier when somebody's retired, but any and you
(12:59):
talk about a range of topics, uh not just you know,
sex and poop. If you if you're having an interesting
conversation about larger issues of space exploration and challenges, and
you eventually make your way around to something like that,
that's fine. I think what bothers them is when you
specifically would request, if you were to request an interview
(13:20):
specifically about um, sex and space, because that, I think
to them kind of it's kind of consulting in a
way like that, that that that that this is the
most interesting thing that the public can find, you know,
when they do what they do, a lot of the
research that they do, and it's it is interesting in
its own right, and so I think it's frustrating when
people only ask about those things. So if you, if you,
(13:44):
if you bring it up in a in a larger context,
they're fine talking about it and along those lines. Because
again there's this whole chapter just on going to the
bathroom instead. Yeah, it's it's it's you know, if you
only read one chapter in this book, you know, it's
kind of like it's the one to read. Um. And
and I have to you know, I have to say
(14:06):
I thought I knew a lot about going to the
bathroom and space going in because we even did that
whole part. We did a podcast on it, I've written
about it, and but now Mary had some stuff that
I was not prepared for. Hcapees. Yeah, I was watching
a John Stewart clip. She was on a John Stewart
and they had everywhere. Yeah, she's really been doing a
lot of pr for us. She was talking about escapees.
(14:26):
So I had to ask her which she thought was grosser.
Um a phenomenon called fecal popcorning. Oh that's still against
me every time, or the the fecal glove. So here,
here we go. Here's what she had to say about that.
I think if you're a dog owner, probably not that
big a deal, because it's really like, you know, those
people go walk down the street with a New York
(14:48):
Times sleeve plastic newspaper, sleep and pick up their dog poop,
turned it inside out. Done, No big deal. So I
would imagine somebody was used to that, wouldn't. I mean,
it is your own material, which is a little unusual.
But uh, I think that the the issue with the
shuttle toilet with with escape ease as they called it,
(15:08):
with little pieces um escaping and making their way around
um the capsule or the module or the shuttle in
this case, what is very very distasteful. I mean, there
was there was a mission I think I mentioned the
book where there was sort of dust because the materials
are sort of quick dried, and the dust would when
the dust came out, you're inhaling that and that's a
(15:31):
disturbing and also you don't necessarily want that in your lungs.
So I think that that was the high tech I
would guess that when the high tech device malfunctions, um,
it is more. In fact, I know it is because
there were people on that mission who opted not to
use the shuttle toilet and used the contingency, which was
the fecal bag because they of that problem with this,
(15:53):
they called it flow back. It was that dust that
was escaping and flying around. I think it was the Shuttle,
perhaps it was the I S. S. But either way,
they preferred to deal with the indignities of the fecule
bag then to be inhaling that stuff. So that's pretty
men wraps it up. But I do want to end
with Mary's take on the future of man space flight.
(16:14):
I would love to see a Man marsmis partly because
you know what this is something I didn't realize before
I did the book. But every program has kind of
been preparing for the next Like Gemini was just flat
out working out the kinks for a moonshot. It was like,
let's practice stalking in space. Let's see what happens to
two people's skin if they were spaces for two weeks
without a shower. Let's figure out all the steps here
(16:37):
in orbit, and then we go into the Moon. So
Gemini was preparation for Apollo. The International Space Station has
been this ten year exercising global space cooperation, all these
different nations communicating, participating, lending expertise and funding, and the
whole aim of that was too prepare for long term
(16:59):
space life in space, which was the whole idea. There
was um getting ready for Mars. So to stop now
seems like, well, what was all that about? What was
the past fifty years about? If we're not going to
go on to Mars? So, I mean, I know that's
not you know, obviously there's budget issues. It's very expensive.
I would love it to be a wed love to
(17:20):
see it, you know, an international effort where a lot
of different nations are contributing money and expertise, and also
just everybody on the planet would be watching. It would
be kind of an amazing event, uh, for the world
to witness. So, I mean it makes me become set.
Probably it probably won't happen in my lifetime. I'm guessing
I'm fifty one, and uh, if we'd be lucky to
(17:45):
have this happening, I think unless somebody proposes something really radical,
like one way mission with people go and then just
live the rest of their lives there and because then
you know that the tricky part is coming back. So
there you have it. Our interview with Mary Roach. She
shared a lot of great stuff and was just a
real pleasure to talk to um. Just you know she
(18:06):
turned out. We were wondering, it's like, oh, she's gonna
be like she is in the book, you know, is
it gonna be the same experience, and and it really is.
She was. She was great. Yeah, you know. We asked
whether she would pack from ours and she said no,
not the personality type permission to Mars, but a two
week trip to the moon signed Mary up. After all,
she did climb aboard the Vomit comment ak a the
C nine, So I think she's pretty much game for
(18:27):
just about anything, including topics. So yeah, if you've never
read anything by Mary Roach, check those out. Um. She
also did a ted talk um having to do with
with like ten like things about sex um that came
out around the time of her Bok books. So also
you do a ted talk search on that or a
YouTube search and you can you can find that. Yeah,
and by all means, if you've read her, or if
(18:48):
you've read Packing from Hers, tell us what you think
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(19:10):
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works dot Com home page
Welcome to Stuff from the Science Lab from how stuff
works dot com. Hey guys, I'm welcome to stuff from
the Science Lab. This is Alice Madamel, the science editor
how stuff works dot com. And this is Robert Lamb,
science writer at how stuff works dot com. And uh,
(00:24):
and here at Stuff in the Science Lab. We're big
fans of Mary Roach, who if you're not familiar with
her work, she's a science writer and she's written the
book Stiff, Spook, Bunk, and now Packing for Mars, The
Curious Science of Life in the Void. Yeah, and that
was released as the summer Yeah. Her her three previous
(00:44):
books are all great. Uh. Stiff deals with the story
of human cadavers. Interestingly, when we interviewed her, she was
saying that she didn't think that book would sell. Yeah, yeah,
she well, she's been surprised at at how some of
her follow up books didn't like instantly surpassed that one,
because you know, cadaver's Okay. Then the second one, Spook,
(01:05):
was about um science and the supernatural, which is also
a really great book. I read that one. And then
the third one was about sex balk and uh, and
she she was sure that one was going to be
the big you know, the one that's gonna be even
more of a hit. But but Stiff is remaining like
the colossal best seller of the of her work so far.
And they're all they're all great. Yeah, yeah, we highly
(01:26):
advocate reading them. Um. So we did have the chance
to interview her, and uh, we're gonna share some of
that interview with you guys today. So I thought one
of the things that she did really well is just
kind of breaking down the mythology of the astronaut and
making astronauts into just regular old humans. Here she is
talking about the first astronaut she met. I remember, um,
(01:50):
my first astronaut. You know, I was down at Johnson
Space Center and I had never I've never met an
astronaut and it was the skuy Lee Moore and he's
just this this regular guys wearing kind of a yeah
Hawaiian shirt and cheenose and brown shoes. And I was like, oh,
I'm going to meet an astroid and I meet this
kind of like oh my god, they're just people for starters,
(02:12):
you know, so the whole like mythology, Uh this doesn't
you know. You meet you meet them and right away
you realize they're just they're just people. And then you
start to learn about what they go through all the
things that you were saying, plus some of the you know,
kind of worrisome physiological changes, and it's yeah, very quickly
ceases to be this high glamour job. Yeah. And then
(02:34):
you asked her if there was one particular example of
a space absurdity that really just made her side. Yeah,
this is my next book. This is what I'm going
to explore next. I think that there was that paper
I came across fairly early on, when I was pretty
sure I was going to do it, but not entirely sure.
It came across this paper from n on Space Nutrition
(02:56):
and Related waste problems, and it was these guys sort
of thinking outside box about Mars, and they were, you know,
because you're it's two to three your mission and food
is you can't pack lots of delicious food and you know,
launch it for a crew of six or three years.
So they were thinking like, well, we could we could
create clothing out of edible keratin fibers that they could
(03:19):
wear for a while and then when they were done
wearing it, they could eat it. And then there was
the guy who was saying that, um, uh well, they
could um actually be eating pieces of the spacecraft. We
could you make these edible proteins for some of the
interiors of that we won't be neating after we've been
(03:40):
on the surface of Mars when we were coming home.
We'll just eat that, eat that module. And you know,
just this sort of plus the you know, the the
very very extreme recycling that would have to be done
in terms of, um, drinking your own sweat and urine.
Uh that I think at that point I was like, oh, yeah,
this is this Narry roach country. So of course we
(04:00):
had to ask her if she was a space geet
going in to writing the book or if she became
one in the process, And it turns out she was
a little bit of one beforehand, but uh but in
writing the book, she found herself like watching NASA TV
all the time. So so here's what she had to
say about that. I was a space a little bit
of a space geek. I never watched Star Trek and
(04:22):
I wasn't a science fiction reader. But I did a
story at this for Discover magazine years ago where I
went to the neutral Buoyancy tank, which is that just
it's like the size of the Gulf of Mexico. It's
not it's heat, but it's this huge swimming pool that
they submerged pieces of the International Space Station and then
have the astronauts rehearse really addressed rehearsal, wearing their actual suits,
(04:45):
um rehearse all the moves that they're going to do.
And I remember just being kind of overwhelmed by the
delightful geekiness of it all. And you know, and I
am kind of a geek, so um NASA was kind
of the magical kingdom in a way. I was like, all,
get all this stuff, you know, just there's just all
manner of things you never would imagine existing are down there.
(05:07):
We were talking about how the public's perception and enthusiasm
for space exploration has kind of waxed and waned over
the years. You even mentioned to say that it might
be a little boring now. Definitely been boring for for
a while there, because they started out really exciting with
space exploration. You know, these people are going out in
the space, they're getting stuff down their cowboys, you know,
(05:28):
and then there was this long period of kind of
to most people, I think, kind of boring science experiments
in space so yeah, we had to ask Mary where
where where she thought we are now and where we're going? Yeah,
and how we could turn things around fair space exploration.
I think we're at a point where we could turn
it around and make it not boring by going somewhere new,
(05:50):
you know. I think that the the Moon base UM plan,
the plan to go back and people for six months
or more to live on the moon. UM. I think
just because it's the Moon and people feel the general
public feels like, well, we've we've been there, we went
there seven times, um, why why are we going back?
I think that um to just simply to go somewhere new.
(06:13):
If not, if they you know, the partisan bickering and
the policy and the politics can sort of if they
can sort out where they where we're gonna what we're
gonna do, where we're gonna go, and I think you
you really and it's somewhere new, you really could start
to capture people's imaginations again. Uh, it wouldn't doesn't have
to be Mars, I mean near with that story, just
(06:34):
something that is um different and exciting for people. I
think it's still even when we were in orbit, um
a lot of really really interesting cool stuff was going on.
It just doesn't always get reported that way or reported
at all. So we we also asked her how astronauts
have changed, or rather the role of the astronaut has
(06:56):
changed again from the cowboys of the rights off to
the more you know, the more the scientist astronaut we
have today. Um, so she talked a little about about that,
about the class between the old school and the new
school scientist. They couldn't be more different. It really was
eighty degree turn on on on what makes the perfect
(07:18):
astronaut because you got the you know, early on one guy,
so it didn't matter if he didn't play well with others.
You have one guy in an a mission that's a
few hours long, and so what you want is somebody
who's aggressive, brave, unfazed by high risk, uh able to
deal with an emergency, calm and an emergency. That that
sort of the right stuff, which became very much the
(07:40):
wrong stuff by the time we get to the Shuttle
era where you've got or the I S S even
more to the point where you've got six months and
longer missions and five six people, then you really don't
you don't want that kind of personality. You would want
somebody's you know, the list of attributes I love some
of them, like ability to form stable and quality interpersonal
(08:01):
relationship because they've liked John Glenn. Can you imagine area
that being even the word relationships entering into it, you know, flexibility, fairness, empathy,
all these things that you don't you don't really associate
with the right stuff. But then going going into the future,
if we do go to Mars, then you then you
(08:22):
kind of want both of those because it's going to
be a bigger crew, so you want people who get
along well in the group. But then again you also
needs a self starter and somebody who can deal with
emergencies with sort of leadership and calm, you know that
that whole right stuff things. So I don't know how
they're going to find up these people. I mean, it's
kind of a super human combination. People are usually one
(08:44):
or the other. Speaking of the perfect astronaut, we went
through this crazy list of physiological traits um that some
space agencies think are important for astronauts to have. And
it was because it was a funny exchange. So here's
this chatting about how that astronaut might turn out if
all the various random traits were taken into account. Yeah,
(09:05):
there's all these you could get well, and they're they're
talking about you. She look for people whose intestinal flora
did not produce methane because that's explosive. So you gotta
look at what kind of what their farts contain, you
know what, somebody who's snores, because that wakes everybody up.
You don't want something with bad breath. That's the Chinese
Space Agency. Also African American women, Uh well, we're after
(09:27):
women in general because they consume less oxygen than food.
African Americans sticker bone density so uk. So you want
a deaf, mute African American woman who does not snore
and doesn't produce methane. And then on top of that
the right personality. Of course, as you know, science writers
and science hitters. We had to ask her about her
(09:48):
her method uh in writing this book and really kind
of writing all of them. And what's amazing about her
writing is that she's not just summarizing journal findings or
you know, kind of twisting the research into a new
light or even um, I mean, she is very much
translating it into layman's terms, much as we hope to do.
But she's getting to people in the flesh, she's talking
(10:10):
to them, she's making them come alive on the page.
And also Mary Roach is very much a character in
her own books. You know, it's like you're really right
there with Mary in each of these as she goes
out and talks to these people, you know, and uh
and really learns, so you know what the dirt is
on everything from corpses to going into space. Yeah, so
here she is talking a little bit about storytelling and
(10:31):
her method of putting together books and why science isn't boring.
I mean, when I contact people frequently, they say, oh, well,
I'll send you a paper and we can talk, and
I'm always having to write back and say, now, it
doesn't really work very well for readers that way. I
need to actually come visit you and be there and
(10:52):
see what you're doing and have a scene with people
who are talking to each other and doing things. And
even that, isn't that a traditional book narrative? Usually that's
a through line all the way through the book, and
that is Yeah, that's another way to do it, and
probably the best way. But even just having a chapter
by chapter a setting in a narrative framework to hang
(11:14):
the facts on helps a lot and getting people interested
in science because people have this notion that science is boring,
which kind of blows my mind, because science is scientists,
it's you. You know, it's your your audience, your backyard,
it's your dog, it's the weather, it is it is everything,
And how how could you possibly think it's boring? But
(11:35):
you know, it's often along scientists because they're at such
a high level of understanding it. It is boring to
the general public to pick up a paper from a journal.
So you do have to as a science writer, which
is a title like I guess I were, But um,
you do have to find ways to make it accessible
(11:56):
and make it real and storytelling is I think the
best way. You know, she really got some amazing details
and stuff that we never hear about, at least not
regularly and and not certainly not stuff that NASA broadcasts. Um,
pretty much the messy realities of motion, sickness and going
to the bathroom in space and all sorts of good
stuff like that. So I was asking her if astronauts
(12:16):
were relieved to finally lift the curtain on the reality
of life and space and sometimes smelly reality of life
and space well, the cosmonauts in general are just very straightforward,
just just lay it on the line kind of people.
There's less concern I think about what is the proper
(12:38):
thing to say? Maybe, so just culturally, they're a little
more free wheeling in their conversations. And in fact, I
was surprised by if you sit down and have a
conversation with an astronaut, even an active astronaut, not retired,
it's always easier when somebody's retired, but any and you
(12:59):
talk about a range of topics, uh not just you know,
sex and poop. If you if you're having an interesting
conversation about larger issues of space exploration and challenges, and
you eventually make your way around to something like that,
that's fine. I think what bothers them is when you
specifically would request, if you were to request an interview
(13:20):
specifically about um, sex and space, because that, I think
to them kind of it's kind of consulting in a
way like that, that that that that this is the
most interesting thing that the public can find, you know,
when they do what they do, a lot of the
research that they do, and it's it is interesting in
its own right, and so I think it's frustrating when
people only ask about those things. So if you, if you,
(13:44):
if you bring it up in a in a larger context,
they're fine talking about it and along those lines. Because
again there's this whole chapter just on going to the
bathroom instead. Yeah, it's it's it's you know, if you
only read one chapter in this book, you know, it's
kind of like it's the one to read. Um. And
and I have to you know, I have to say
(14:06):
I thought I knew a lot about going to the
bathroom and space going in because we even did that
whole part. We did a podcast on it, I've written
about it, and but now Mary had some stuff that
I was not prepared for. Hcapees. Yeah, I was watching
a John Stewart clip. She was on a John Stewart
and they had everywhere. Yeah, she's really been doing a
lot of pr for us. She was talking about escapees.
(14:26):
So I had to ask her which she thought was grosser.
Um a phenomenon called fecal popcorning. Oh that's still against
me every time, or the the fecal glove. So here,
here we go. Here's what she had to say about that.
I think if you're a dog owner, probably not that
big a deal, because it's really like, you know, those
people go walk down the street with a New York
(14:48):
Times sleeve plastic newspaper, sleep and pick up their dog poop,
turned it inside out. Done, No big deal. So I
would imagine somebody was used to that, wouldn't. I mean,
it is your own material, which is a little unusual.
But uh, I think that the the issue with the
shuttle toilet with with escape ease as they called it,
(15:08):
with little pieces um escaping and making their way around
um the capsule or the module or the shuttle in
this case, what is very very distasteful. I mean, there
was there was a mission I think I mentioned the
book where there was sort of dust because the materials
are sort of quick dried, and the dust would when
the dust came out, you're inhaling that and that's a
(15:31):
disturbing and also you don't necessarily want that in your lungs.
So I think that that was the high tech I
would guess that when the high tech device malfunctions, um,
it is more. In fact, I know it is because
there were people on that mission who opted not to
use the shuttle toilet and used the contingency, which was
the fecal bag because they of that problem with this,
(15:53):
they called it flow back. It was that dust that
was escaping and flying around. I think it was the Shuttle,
perhaps it was the I S. S. But either way,
they preferred to deal with the indignities of the fecule
bag then to be inhaling that stuff. So that's pretty
men wraps it up. But I do want to end
with Mary's take on the future of man space flight.
(16:14):
I would love to see a Man marsmis partly because
you know what this is something I didn't realize before
I did the book. But every program has kind of
been preparing for the next Like Gemini was just flat
out working out the kinks for a moonshot. It was like,
let's practice stalking in space. Let's see what happens to
two people's skin if they were spaces for two weeks
without a shower. Let's figure out all the steps here
(16:37):
in orbit, and then we go into the Moon. So
Gemini was preparation for Apollo. The International Space Station has
been this ten year exercising global space cooperation, all these
different nations communicating, participating, lending expertise and funding, and the
whole aim of that was too prepare for long term
(16:59):
space life in space, which was the whole idea. There
was um getting ready for Mars. So to stop now
seems like, well, what was all that about? What was
the past fifty years about? If we're not going to
go on to Mars? So, I mean, I know that's
not you know, obviously there's budget issues. It's very expensive.
I would love it to be a wed love to
(17:20):
see it, you know, an international effort where a lot
of different nations are contributing money and expertise, and also
just everybody on the planet would be watching. It would
be kind of an amazing event, uh, for the world
to witness. So, I mean it makes me become set.
Probably it probably won't happen in my lifetime. I'm guessing
I'm fifty one, and uh, if we'd be lucky to
(17:45):
have this happening, I think unless somebody proposes something really radical,
like one way mission with people go and then just
live the rest of their lives there and because then
you know that the tricky part is coming back. So
there you have it. Our interview with Mary Roach. She
shared a lot of great stuff and was just a
real pleasure to talk to um. Just you know she
(18:06):
turned out. We were wondering, it's like, oh, she's gonna
be like she is in the book, you know, is
it gonna be the same experience, and and it really is.
She was. She was great. Yeah, you know. We asked
whether she would pack from ours and she said no,
not the personality type permission to Mars, but a two
week trip to the moon signed Mary up. After all,
she did climb aboard the Vomit comment ak a the
C nine, So I think she's pretty much game for
(18:27):
just about anything, including topics. So yeah, if you've never
read anything by Mary Roach, check those out. Um. She
also did a ted talk um having to do with
with like ten like things about sex um that came
out around the time of her Bok books. So also
you do a ted talk search on that or a
YouTube search and you can you can find that. Yeah,
and by all means, if you've read her, or if
(18:48):
you've read Packing from Hers, tell us what you think
on Facebook We're stuff from the Science Lab, or on
Twitter or lab stuff, or you can always send us
an email at science Stuff, how stuff works dot com
MH for more on this and thousands of other topics.
Is it how Stuff works dot Com. Want more how
(19:10):
stuff works. Check out our blogs on the House stuff
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