Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, the long awaited findings and recommendations following an almost
(00:04):
three year inquiry into the twenty nineteen police shooting of
Kumenjai Walker were handed down by the Northern Territory Coroner yesterday.
Nineteen year old Walker was fatally shot by then NT
Police Constable Zachary Rolf during an attempt at arrest in
the remote community. Now, because mister Walker died in custody,
(00:25):
his death was subject to a mandatory coronial inquest under
NT law. The inquiry, conducted by the NT Coroner, Elizabeth Armitage,
heard from more than seventy witnesses over sixty six sitting
days across almost three years. Now joining me on the
line to talk more about this situation is well the
(00:48):
journalist who's been covering it right from the start. ABC
journalist Melissa McKay.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Good morning to you, mel Good morning, Katie.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Great to have you on the show. It's been a
busy time. I'm for you, mel teller.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yesterday, when the coroner handed down her findings, what did
she have to say about Komenjai Walker.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
She had a lot to say in those findings and recommendations, Katie.
She spoke for about an hour and that was just
a summary of her six hundred and thirty eight page report.
In relation to Kumenjai Walker specifically, the coroner made a
number of findings in relation to Hugh's upbringing and his
(01:30):
early years, finding that he was a vulnerable teenager, that
his life had sort of been plagued by poverty and
health issues, that he'd struggled to cope at school because
of his disabilities. He was deaf in one ear and
likely born with foodo alcoholspex from disorder. She found that
(01:52):
between the age of thirteen and eighteen, Kumunjai Walker had
spent on average more than half of each year under
some form of restraints in relation to the justice system.
He was in and out of youth detention and had
was either under bail or a court order or in
(02:14):
prison for much of his young, sort of teenage years,
and that you know, she was looking at how to
sort of really prevent young people in un degree from
ending up on that path in the first place.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, I'll get to some of those findings shortly, But
what did she have to say about former Constable Zachary
Rolf and his attitude?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
The coroner was pretty scathing of former Constable Zachary Rolf.
She made findings in relation to his attitude. She found
that he was a racist, that he made flawed decisions,
he had little regard for safety and thought policing. Theron
(03:00):
found specifically in relation to the night that Puman die
Walker was shot, that it was a case of officer
induced jeopardy, that mister Rolph had made flawed decisions in
the lead up to that incident, which sort of contributed
to the to the scuffle that they that mister Rolf
and Pullman Guy Walker were in during that attempt at arrest,
(03:23):
which obviously ended in mister Rolph firing his block three times.
She also made some findings in relation to his earlier
behavior as a police officer. She said that he was
a very junior officer, he'd only been on the force
for a little under four years, and that he had
(03:44):
used unnecessary force on at least five occasions on earlier arrests,
the coroner found, and she also sort of laid blame
on the police force as a whole for not raining.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Rules, he said, and there were allegations, of course, of
racist awards made during the inquest. What did the coroner
find in relation to racism.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
The coroner found that there was evidence of systemic institutional
racism within the Northern Territory Police Force and particularly within
the Alice Springs Police Station at the time that Zachary
Rolf was working there. You would remember, Katie, there was
a lot of evidence around text messages being shared between
police officers, including very senior police using using racial slurs
(04:32):
and making comments sort of degrading Aboriginal people. In relation
to those awards that you specify, the coroner said that
they were a grotesque example of the racism that she
found existed within the Northern Territory Police Force, and she
(04:53):
found that the fact that nobody reported those awards as
they were being handed out, she said, was clear evidence
of entrenched, systemic and structural racism within the Northern Territory
Police Force. I will add though, she did also make
it quite clear that many of the police officers that
(05:15):
did give evidence to this very long running inquiry impressed her.
She said that she found that many of them were
curious and culturally sensitive officers who had dedicated their lives
to serving largely Aboriginal communities within the NT.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Looking at those recommendations, there were thirty two of them,
what were the ones that relate to the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Police specifically for the Northern Territory Police Force. The Coroner
has made a number of recommendations I can't remember these
that figure related to the Anti Police, but she has
broadly urged for change in relation to their recruitment and training,
particularly when it comes to the recruitment of police officers
(06:02):
from the ADF. We know that Zachary Rolf was among
those officers who had joined the Anti Police force from
the military. She's also asked that the racism strategy, which
we know the Anti Police says it's working on. She's
asked that the made public and another interesting finding of
(06:25):
recommendation in relation to the police that she's made is
around guns in communities. We've been hearing from Kumenjay Walker's
family and community over the last few years that they
want to see police not carrying weapons in the community.
The Coroner didn't go so far as to recommend that
police not carry guns at all in the community. She
(06:45):
recognized the need for them, but she has encouraged conversations
between leaders in Yundamu and the police force around whether
there are times that it is appropriate for police to
be carrying their guns intommunity and mel I.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Know the Northern Territory Police have responded. Has the Police
Commissioner come out and spoken yet or is it just
a statement that has been issued.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's just this statement that has been issued by the
Northern Territory Police Force saying obviously you know that they
need some time to take in these recommendations and that
of course there has been changes made within the police
force over the last six years. But we haven't yet
heard personally from the Acting Commissioner, Martin Dole.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Now I understand I thought the coroner was due to
also speak again today, but is that the case.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, No, it's not. I think there has been some
confusion around that. But no, the coroner is not expected
to continue speaking at all today. She came in yesterday,
delivered her findings and left pretty swiftly. She didn't sit
around to chat with anyone. And my understanding is that, yeah,
she was heading straight back to Alice Springs and I
(08:02):
presume back to Darwin.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, what were some of the other key takeaways.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I know that there had been certainly some recommendations for
INNT health as well.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, they have around n TEA health. The coroner has
recommended that they improved their screening processes for young people
in remote communities around disability and trying to pick up
some of those issues that Kumenji Walker has as a
young person, so she's made recommendations around that. She's also
(08:35):
made some recommendations around the processes for anti health when
nurses evacuate remote communities. We know in this case, the
nurses had evacuatedous hours before Kumaji Walker was shot because
their houses had been broken into and they were scared,
and the coroner recognized that in her finding. She didn't
make any criticisms of the nurses and of the health
(08:59):
departments for with gloring those nurses for their safety, but
that she's recommended that there be some better conversations around
when that happened so that the community is more aware
of when and why that's happening.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
If you have just joined us, we are speaking to
Melissa McKay, ABC reporter who has certainly been covering this
situation well.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
For a number of years now.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
What was the reaction from the family in you and
demou yesterday, Katie.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It was a really strange feeling. When the coroner finished
speaking yesterday here in Judmu. There was quite a huge
gathering in the community when the coroner spoke, and there
was members of the DMO community, but also a large
contingent of police, lawyers, government staff and of course media
as well. It was really quiet when the coroner sort
(09:58):
of finished speaking. It was almost as if everyone sort
of didn't really know how to respond, didn't really know
what to do, and the family was very quiet and
and sort of reserve taking all of this in. We
spoke briefly with senior Elder Ned Jampans of the hard
Graves yesterday afternoon. They didn't have much to say around
(10:23):
the findings and recommendations yet no one really at that
point had had a real chance to actually read through
them and take them in. So we're hoping that we
will hear the more today. Mister Hargraves did, however, also
raise some issues with the acting police Commissioners and said
that he wanted to speak with him after the findings
(10:45):
had been handed down, but the commissioner left pretty swiftly
after these findings were handed down as well. He said
he wanted to, you know, let the community have their
space to take in this report, and.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I think that's fair enough for everybody.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I mean, it's a lot of there is a lot
to sort of you know, to get through a lot
of information there for everybody to take in. Well, are
there time frames for any of those recommendations.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
No, The thing with with coronial recommendations, Katie, is that
they're not they're not legally binding. So it'll it'll be
up to the Northern Territory government and the police force
as well, I suppose to decide how they how they
take on these findings and recommendations, whether they choose to
(11:36):
enact any of them is so, how many and in
what time frame they do that. We haven't really heard
sort of any commitments from from any party yet around
which which recommendations they except we've just heard from the
CLP government they just sense for a statement saying that
(11:57):
they welcome the conclusion of this process but that they
will now take the time to consider the findings and
recommendations and noting that much has changed over the last
six years since Kumanjai Walker died.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, Melissa McKay from the ABC, it is always good
to catch up with you, g You've been busy mate,
It's been a.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Busy time for you. Several years of being busy.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Absolutely has Yeah, this has been a very long time
coming for a lot of people involved.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
To ye yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, we appreciate your time
this morning. You know you've done a lot of hard
work in this space. Really appreciate you taking the time
to have a chat with us and to our listeners
this morning.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Thank you mate, Thank you
Now, the long awaited findings and recommendations following an almost
(00:04):
three year inquiry into the twenty nineteen police shooting of
Kumenjai Walker were handed down by the Northern Territory Coroner yesterday.
Nineteen year old Walker was fatally shot by then NT
Police Constable Zachary Rolf during an attempt at arrest in
the remote community. Now, because mister Walker died in custody,
(00:25):
his death was subject to a mandatory coronial inquest under
NT law. The inquiry, conducted by the NT Coroner, Elizabeth Armitage,
heard from more than seventy witnesses over sixty six sitting
days across almost three years. Now joining me on the
line to talk more about this situation is well the
(00:48):
journalist who's been covering it right from the start. ABC
journalist Melissa McKay.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Good morning to you, mel Good morning, Katie.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Great to have you on the show. It's been a
busy time. I'm for you, mel teller.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yesterday, when the coroner handed down her findings, what did
she have to say about Komenjai Walker.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
She had a lot to say in those findings and recommendations, Katie.
She spoke for about an hour and that was just
a summary of her six hundred and thirty eight page report.
In relation to Kumenjai Walker specifically, the coroner made a
number of findings in relation to Hugh's upbringing and his
(01:30):
early years, finding that he was a vulnerable teenager, that
his life had sort of been plagued by poverty and
health issues, that he'd struggled to cope at school because
of his disabilities. He was deaf in one ear and
likely born with foodo alcoholspex from disorder. She found that
(01:52):
between the age of thirteen and eighteen, Kumunjai Walker had
spent on average more than half of each year under
some form of restraints in relation to the justice system.
He was in and out of youth detention and had
was either under bail or a court order or in
(02:14):
prison for much of his young, sort of teenage years,
and that you know, she was looking at how to
sort of really prevent young people in un degree from
ending up on that path in the first place.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, I'll get to some of those findings shortly, But
what did she have to say about former Constable Zachary
Rolf and his attitude?
Speaker 2 (02:39):
The coroner was pretty scathing of former Constable Zachary Rolf.
She made findings in relation to his attitude. She found
that he was a racist, that he made flawed decisions,
he had little regard for safety and thought policing. Theron
(03:00):
found specifically in relation to the night that Puman die
Walker was shot, that it was a case of officer
induced jeopardy, that mister Rolph had made flawed decisions in
the lead up to that incident, which sort of contributed
to the to the scuffle that they that mister Rolf
and Pullman Guy Walker were in during that attempt at arrest,
(03:23):
which obviously ended in mister Rolph firing his block three times.
She also made some findings in relation to his earlier
behavior as a police officer. She said that he was
a very junior officer, he'd only been on the force
for a little under four years, and that he had
(03:44):
used unnecessary force on at least five occasions on earlier arrests,
the coroner found, and she also sort of laid blame
on the police force as a whole for not raining.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Rules, he said, and there were allegations, of course, of
racist awards made during the inquest. What did the coroner
find in relation to racism.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
The coroner found that there was evidence of systemic institutional
racism within the Northern Territory Police Force and particularly within
the Alice Springs Police Station at the time that Zachary
Rolf was working there. You would remember, Katie, there was
a lot of evidence around text messages being shared between
police officers, including very senior police using using racial slurs
(04:32):
and making comments sort of degrading Aboriginal people. In relation
to those awards that you specify, the coroner said that
they were a grotesque example of the racism that she
found existed within the Northern Territory Police Force, and she
(04:53):
found that the fact that nobody reported those awards as
they were being handed out, she said, was clear evidence
of entrenched, systemic and structural racism within the Northern Territory
Police Force. I will add though, she did also make
it quite clear that many of the police officers that
(05:15):
did give evidence to this very long running inquiry impressed her.
She said that she found that many of them were
curious and culturally sensitive officers who had dedicated their lives
to serving largely Aboriginal communities within the NT.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Well.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Looking at those recommendations, there were thirty two of them,
what were the ones that relate to the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Police specifically for the Northern Territory Police Force. The Coroner
has made a number of recommendations I can't remember these
that figure related to the Anti Police, but she has
broadly urged for change in relation to their recruitment and training,
particularly when it comes to the recruitment of police officers
(06:02):
from the ADF. We know that Zachary Rolf was among
those officers who had joined the Anti Police force from
the military. She's also asked that the racism strategy, which
we know the Anti Police says it's working on. She's
asked that the made public and another interesting finding of
(06:25):
recommendation in relation to the police that she's made is
around guns in communities. We've been hearing from Kumenjay Walker's
family and community over the last few years that they
want to see police not carrying weapons in the community.
The Coroner didn't go so far as to recommend that
police not carry guns at all in the community. She
(06:45):
recognized the need for them, but she has encouraged conversations
between leaders in Yundamu and the police force around whether
there are times that it is appropriate for police to
be carrying their guns intommunity and mel I.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Know the Northern Territory Police have responded. Has the Police
Commissioner come out and spoken yet or is it just
a statement that has been issued.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's just this statement that has been issued by the
Northern Territory Police Force saying obviously you know that they
need some time to take in these recommendations and that
of course there has been changes made within the police
force over the last six years. But we haven't yet
heard personally from the Acting Commissioner, Martin Dole.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Now I understand I thought the coroner was due to
also speak again today, but is that the case.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
No, No, it's not. I think there has been some
confusion around that. But no, the coroner is not expected
to continue speaking at all today. She came in yesterday,
delivered her findings and left pretty swiftly. She didn't sit
around to chat with anyone. And my understanding is that, yeah,
she was heading straight back to Alice Springs and I
(08:02):
presume back to Darwin.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Well, what were some of the other key takeaways.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
I know that there had been certainly some recommendations for
INNT health as well.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, they have around n TEA health. The coroner has
recommended that they improved their screening processes for young people
in remote communities around disability and trying to pick up
some of those issues that Kumenji Walker has as a
young person, so she's made recommendations around that. She's also
(08:35):
made some recommendations around the processes for anti health when
nurses evacuate remote communities. We know in this case, the
nurses had evacuatedous hours before Kumaji Walker was shot because
their houses had been broken into and they were scared,
and the coroner recognized that in her finding. She didn't
make any criticisms of the nurses and of the health
(08:59):
departments for with gloring those nurses for their safety, but
that she's recommended that there be some better conversations around
when that happened so that the community is more aware
of when and why that's happening.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
If you have just joined us, we are speaking to
Melissa McKay, ABC reporter who has certainly been covering this
situation well.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
For a number of years now.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
What was the reaction from the family in you and
demou yesterday, Katie.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It was a really strange feeling. When the coroner finished
speaking yesterday here in Judmu. There was quite a huge
gathering in the community when the coroner spoke, and there
was members of the DMO community, but also a large
contingent of police, lawyers, government staff and of course media
as well. It was really quiet when the coroner sort
(09:58):
of finished speaking. It was almost as if everyone sort
of didn't really know how to respond, didn't really know
what to do, and the family was very quiet and
and sort of reserve taking all of this in. We
spoke briefly with senior Elder Ned Jampans of the hard
Graves yesterday afternoon. They didn't have much to say around
(10:23):
the findings and recommendations yet no one really at that
point had had a real chance to actually read through
them and take them in. So we're hoping that we
will hear the more today. Mister Hargraves did, however, also
raise some issues with the acting police Commissioners and said
that he wanted to speak with him after the findings
(10:45):
had been handed down, but the commissioner left pretty swiftly
after these findings were handed down as well. He said
he wanted to, you know, let the community have their
space to take in this report, and.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
I think that's fair enough for everybody.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I mean, it's a lot of there is a lot
to sort of you know, to get through a lot
of information there for everybody to take in. Well, are
there time frames for any of those recommendations.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
No, The thing with with coronial recommendations, Katie, is that
they're not they're not legally binding. So it'll it'll be
up to the Northern Territory government and the police force
as well, I suppose to decide how they how they
take on these findings and recommendations, whether they choose to
(11:36):
enact any of them is so, how many and in
what time frame they do that. We haven't really heard
sort of any commitments from from any party yet around
which which recommendations they except we've just heard from the
CLP government they just sense for a statement saying that
(11:57):
they welcome the conclusion of this process but that they
will now take the time to consider the findings and
recommendations and noting that much has changed over the last
six years since Kumanjai Walker died.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, Melissa McKay from the ABC, it is always good
to catch up with you, g You've been busy mate,
It's been a.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Busy time for you. Several years of being busy.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Absolutely has Yeah, this has been a very long time
coming for a lot of people involved.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
To ye yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, we appreciate your time
this morning. You know you've done a lot of hard
work in this space. Really appreciate you taking the time
to have a chat with us and to our listeners
this morning.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Thank you mate, Thank you
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