Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know that a new stream of police are set
to be established targeting anti social behavior in public places
across the Northern Territory. The Police Public Safety Officer Units
is going to consolidate auxilliary and safety officers with standardized
training through the Police College. The move, we'll see transit
safety and public housing officer roles scrapped with those officers
(00:23):
transitioning to the new police units. Now joining us in
the studio to tell us more about the move is
the Acting Deputy Commissioner James O'Brien. Good morning to you, Good.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Morning Katie, good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Now what kind of training are the ppsos going to do?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So at the moment, we have what's called a front
line auxiliary and most of the community will see them
as palis so our police auxiliary liquor inspectors. So they're
mainly in Catherine Tennant Creek and Al Springs. They receive
a quite comprehensive set of training because they carry a firearm,
they still do driver training, they do all of those
(01:00):
things that a constable would do to be able to
carry far from so they're very highly trained. Okay, and
the reason why we need that is because out in
our community. You know, it's very low risk, I know,
but if we have something like an active armed defender
or something like that, we as police, because we're wearing
a police uniform, the community look at us to be
able to deal with that. So with this new PPSO program,
(01:25):
what we'll be doing is the current FAISO. I'll try
not to use acronyms. The current public Housing Safety Officer
and Transit Safety officers. They've got certain powers under their acts.
Police also have those powers, and what a PPSO will
be is a member of the police force operating under
the Police Administration Act with all of those powers. So
(01:47):
basically they will take over those powers, but just operate
in our housing estates, on our bus routes, in our
bus interchanges. If they continue to exist, all of our malls.
To mister Bascala the other day, the Lord Mayor, and
he's absolutely wrapped and he said, thank you. I'll be
talking to you about getting people walking up and down
our moll, which is something I've been trying to do
(02:09):
for a long time. These people will be able to
so those current employees, we will offer them to go
through the recruitment package for a PPSO.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And if they don't want to do it. My understanding
is that it's been grandfather. They can deal with their
or speak to their departments and that will be worked
through for them.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Exactly right, exactly right. So eventually we've got to have
a transition period where we still need the public housing safety,
the transit safety and the ppsos because we can't recruit
that much to fill the gap. So there has to
be a transition period.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So tell me, by the sounds of it, these ppsos
are going to be trained in the same way that
our palis have they So essentially it's going to be
a similar sort of role to what I'm different get
exactly what you've said in terms of the locations, but
similar powers to what the police have.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, and that's exactly right. So each our current auxiliaries
have what's called an instrument of appointment and that details
the powers or the level of powers that they have.
So for things, for instance, what we don't want our
ppsos to have is that extra training to do with
the higher level investigation. We don't want them to deal
(03:26):
with that because we have specialist constables that will come
in and do that. What the ppsos will do is
on our bus networks in our housing estates, in our
shopping centers. They will be able to deal with matters
there and then and to arrest a person and take
them into custody and deal with them as we're a
transit safety in a public housing safety officer, they don't
(03:47):
they need to bring them to a police officer. So
we're cutting out the main and.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It can make it really quite difficult, I would imagine
as well if police officers are busy at other more
serious jobs. So what this will hopefully mean is that
they're then able to, if needed, arrest somebody, get them
to a watchhouse exactly right.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And keep our constables out on the front line dealing
with those urgent response mans.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, you did talk about what they're not going to
be able to do. I mean in terms of their
powers and in terms of what they'll need. Are they
going to be armed with a firearm?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Absolutely, because they are members of the police force and
we want them to be out in that public sphere,
and probably a couple of other things for you that
they will be highly visible with a different type of uniform,
same police but they will be very distinguishable.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But that's a little bit like the palis as well though, right,
don't they have like a yellow thing on their sleeve.
The palis is a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, they do. But what we're looking at is probably
something if people want to google the saphole police security
of say police, Yeah, have a look at that uniform.
That's sort of like the idea that we're looking at. Okay,
So used to make them really visible, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So visible and so you know they are going to
be armed. I mean, there's been concerns raised by some
members of the community about the fact that they're going
to be armed. What kind of training are they going
to go through before they end up, you know, armed?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So in terms of that specific thing armed, because they
won't just be armed with a firearm, they'll have a
taser when they're training, they'll have oc spray and those
sorts of things. That training is exactly the same as
a constable, So probably to get that across to the
community and just relay to reassure them that they're going
to receive exactly the same training as a constable.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
In relation to that, so, how many weeks does that
constable training.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Go for It's around thirty two weeks, okay, So they'll
be doing the same, not fully, not not the thirty
two weeks. So a frontline auxiliary is actually about half
of the time, but that half is focusing on all
of those things that our community really needs, which is
that firearms training, which is that driver training, use of
force training, all of those things that they need to
(06:03):
be able to reassure the community that they're highly trained
and able to do the things that they need to
do to protect them out in those spaces.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
James, in your role as the acting Deputy Commissioner, I
mean from your perspective, how big a difference is this
going to make for the Northern Territory Police in terms
of frontline officers, you know, your constables, your general duties,
others being able to do their jobs and maybe freed
up from dealing with people who are intoxicated, dealing with
(06:34):
people who may not necessarily be breaking the law, but
are engaging in anti social behavior on our streets, and
generally engaging in behavior that the rest of the community
really doesn't find acceptable.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So what we find in policing is that if you
deal with alcohol on the streets early in the day,
that reduces certain levels of crime later on in the afternoon,
and the amount of alcohol on the streets. What we
do find and we didn't exercise on this just the
other week over in the Northern suburbs, where we reduced
alcohol related domestic violence incidents by half just by going
(07:07):
out and dealing with any social behavior. Highly visible police
from the Territory Safety Division they were out doing that.
So we've and we've proved this over the years. So
what this PPSO model is is about doing that and
allowing our constables to deal with that higher level going
to crash scenes, going to you know, those unlawful entries,
going to und robberies, those sorts of things. So we
(07:30):
hope and I'm pretty confident that we will we'll be
able to, I suppose, diversify our workforce to be able
to target those areas appropriately for the community.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Do you know if they you know, if other states
have a similar sort of model to what these ppsos
are going to do.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
We're taking it just a little bit further in that.
So if you have a look at AFP Protective Services
officers mainly about dealing with the protection of government assets,
government buildings, you know, those sorts of places, they're actually
very highly trained. By the way the AFPP we have
saphole protective police security officers that again do the same.
(08:08):
They're not members of the police force. They wear a
police uniform, but they're not really members of the police force,
but they carry firearm as well.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Okay, so we're not reinventing the wheel here, No, absolutely not. Okay.
So can I ask in terms of where they're going
to be deployed across the Northern territory, is there going
to be a bit of a roll out, like where
are they starting?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So what we'll do is look at having them based
in our major centers, so Darwin, Catherine Tenant Creek and
Alice Springs. In the places like Catherine Tennant Creek and
Alice Springs, you'll probably see them fill up those pally
current pali roles doing the the bottoo type thing. But
they'll also feel What we needs to be mindful of
(08:49):
in those areas is that we're not reducing the services
that housing and DLI or transport provide at the moment
in those services, so we need to make sure that
we're continuing those services as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So now in terms of the number fifty six is
what we've been told is that going to be enough?
Is there going to be more so, that's.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
A number at the moment based on more than likely
the FTE of those two of housing as well as
transit safety. I can say at the moment that we
have vacancies with our palis, so the numbers may in
fact be quite a different more across once we actually
recruit through all of those ft and vacancies. There's a
(09:30):
lot of things to sort out between now and when
we get people on board, and some of those things
in talking with the Police Association, for instance, we need
to talk about their industrial entitlements and those sorts of things.
And I know there was a comment this morning saying
and I spoke to Nathan this morning. Yeah, for Nathan Finn,
the president of the association. We've been having good discussion.
(09:53):
We'll move into formal consultation when the comment is out there.
Very happy with it. I'm very happy with the discussions
that we're having. A formal proposal hasn't been sent to
the association yet, but will do in due time, okay,
And the relationship I have with the association will work
through all of those industrial relations things. And December, yeah,
(10:14):
well we are.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Due to catch up with Finny in a couple of
minutes time, so well, with's some questions to him. Hey,
I mean in terms of some of the concerns that
are being raised in the community. I know that am
Sant for example, they've said there is a trend towards
punitive measures first OC spray. Now these officers carrying guns,
(10:35):
they're fearing it's only going to lead to more violence
and put vulnerable people at risk. What's your response to
those concerns.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Katie, I suppose I run the Territory Community Safety Coordination Center,
which coordinates government and non government services to deal with
those any social behavior issues across the territory. And one
of the things that we want to do it's not punitive.
It's about getting people back to country. It's about getting
them the programs that they'll need to reduce their alcohol consumption,
(11:04):
to reduce their homelessness if that's what they choose. So
our frontline ppsos, even though they're armed and they're wearing
a police uniform, it may appear punitive. No, it's about engagement.
It's about helping the community and helping those people really
to get the services they need.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I mean, we've got some real issues at the moment
with anti social behavior and with public drunkenness and some
of the concerns then on our streets that do escalate, right,
I mean to those listening this morning that are maybe going, oh,
is this going to make a difference? Are we actually
going to see some inroads made as a result of
(11:41):
these ppsos? What do you say to those people listening
this morning, I.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Would say, in my thirty one year career of policing,
and we actually have been talking about this model for
quite some time, I think this is a great opportunity
to really help the community and help those vulnerable people
that we have in our community all across the territory
because it's that particular unit under that command in the
police force that will link in with all of those
(12:08):
government and non government agencies to get them the services
that they need. Now, we're not going to achieve at
one hundred percent, because we never will, but absolutely it
will go a great step toward it.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well, Acting Deputy Commissioner James O'Brien, good to speak with
you this morning. Thank you very much for your time
and thank you for talking our listeners through a bit
more detail on this announcement.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Absolutely, Katie, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Thank you, thank you,
We know that a new stream of police are set
to be established targeting anti social behavior in public places
across the Northern Territory. The Police Public Safety Officer Units
is going to consolidate auxilliary and safety officers with standardized
training through the Police College. The move, we'll see transit
safety and public housing officer roles scrapped with those officers
(00:23):
transitioning to the new police units. Now joining us in
the studio to tell us more about the move is
the Acting Deputy Commissioner James O'Brien. Good morning to you, Good.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Morning Katie, good morning to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Now what kind of training are the ppsos going to do?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So at the moment, we have what's called a front
line auxiliary and most of the community will see them
as palis so our police auxiliary liquor inspectors. So they're
mainly in Catherine Tennant Creek and Al Springs. They receive
a quite comprehensive set of training because they carry a firearm,
they still do driver training, they do all of those
(01:00):
things that a constable would do to be able to
carry far from so they're very highly trained. Okay, and
the reason why we need that is because out in
our community. You know, it's very low risk, I know,
but if we have something like an active armed defender
or something like that, we as police, because we're wearing
a police uniform, the community look at us to be
able to deal with that. So with this new PPSO program,
(01:25):
what we'll be doing is the current FAISO. I'll try
not to use acronyms. The current public Housing Safety Officer
and Transit Safety officers. They've got certain powers under their acts.
Police also have those powers, and what a PPSO will
be is a member of the police force operating under
the Police Administration Act with all of those powers. So
(01:47):
basically they will take over those powers, but just operate
in our housing estates, on our bus routes, in our
bus interchanges. If they continue to exist, all of our malls.
To mister Bascala the other day, the Lord Mayor, and
he's absolutely wrapped and he said, thank you. I'll be
talking to you about getting people walking up and down
our moll, which is something I've been trying to do
(02:09):
for a long time. These people will be able to
so those current employees, we will offer them to go
through the recruitment package for a PPSO.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
And if they don't want to do it. My understanding
is that it's been grandfather. They can deal with their
or speak to their departments and that will be worked
through for them.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Exactly right, exactly right. So eventually we've got to have
a transition period where we still need the public housing safety,
the transit safety and the ppsos because we can't recruit
that much to fill the gap. So there has to
be a transition period.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So tell me, by the sounds of it, these ppsos
are going to be trained in the same way that
our palis have they So essentially it's going to be
a similar sort of role to what I'm different get
exactly what you've said in terms of the locations, but
similar powers to what the police have.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yes, and that's exactly right. So each our current auxiliaries
have what's called an instrument of appointment and that details
the powers or the level of powers that they have.
So for things, for instance, what we don't want our
ppsos to have is that extra training to do with
the higher level investigation. We don't want them to deal
(03:26):
with that because we have specialist constables that will come
in and do that. What the ppsos will do is
on our bus networks in our housing estates, in our
shopping centers. They will be able to deal with matters
there and then and to arrest a person and take
them into custody and deal with them as we're a
transit safety in a public housing safety officer, they don't
(03:47):
they need to bring them to a police officer. So
we're cutting out the main and.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
It can make it really quite difficult, I would imagine
as well if police officers are busy at other more
serious jobs. So what this will hopefully mean is that
they're then able to, if needed, arrest somebody, get them
to a watchhouse exactly right.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And keep our constables out on the front line dealing
with those urgent response mans.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, you did talk about what they're not going to
be able to do. I mean in terms of their
powers and in terms of what they'll need. Are they
going to be armed with a firearm?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Absolutely, because they are members of the police force and
we want them to be out in that public sphere,
and probably a couple of other things for you that
they will be highly visible with a different type of uniform,
same police but they will be very distinguishable.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
But that's a little bit like the palis as well though, right,
don't they have like a yellow thing on their sleeve.
The palis is a little bit different.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, they do. But what we're looking at is probably
something if people want to google the saphole police security
of say police, Yeah, have a look at that uniform.
That's sort of like the idea that we're looking at. Okay,
So used to make them really visible, all right.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
So visible and so you know they are going to
be armed. I mean, there's been concerns raised by some
members of the community about the fact that they're going
to be armed. What kind of training are they going
to go through before they end up, you know, armed?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
So in terms of that specific thing armed, because they
won't just be armed with a firearm, they'll have a
taser when they're training, they'll have oc spray and those
sorts of things. That training is exactly the same as
a constable, So probably to get that across to the
community and just relay to reassure them that they're going
to receive exactly the same training as a constable.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
In relation to that, so, how many weeks does that
constable training.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Go for It's around thirty two weeks, okay, So they'll
be doing the same, not fully, not not the thirty
two weeks. So a frontline auxiliary is actually about half
of the time, but that half is focusing on all
of those things that our community really needs, which is
that firearms training, which is that driver training, use of
force training, all of those things that they need to
(06:03):
be able to reassure the community that they're highly trained
and able to do the things that they need to
do to protect them out in those spaces.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
James, in your role as the acting Deputy Commissioner, I
mean from your perspective, how big a difference is this
going to make for the Northern Territory Police in terms
of frontline officers, you know, your constables, your general duties,
others being able to do their jobs and maybe freed
up from dealing with people who are intoxicated, dealing with
(06:34):
people who may not necessarily be breaking the law, but
are engaging in anti social behavior on our streets, and
generally engaging in behavior that the rest of the community
really doesn't find acceptable.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So what we find in policing is that if you
deal with alcohol on the streets early in the day,
that reduces certain levels of crime later on in the afternoon,
and the amount of alcohol on the streets. What we
do find and we didn't exercise on this just the
other week over in the Northern suburbs, where we reduced
alcohol related domestic violence incidents by half just by going
(07:07):
out and dealing with any social behavior. Highly visible police
from the Territory Safety Division they were out doing that.
So we've and we've proved this over the years. So
what this PPSO model is is about doing that and
allowing our constables to deal with that higher level going
to crash scenes, going to you know, those unlawful entries,
going to und robberies, those sorts of things. So we
(07:30):
hope and I'm pretty confident that we will we'll be
able to, I suppose, diversify our workforce to be able
to target those areas appropriately for the community.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Do you know if they you know, if other states
have a similar sort of model to what these ppsos
are going to do.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
We're taking it just a little bit further in that.
So if you have a look at AFP Protective Services
officers mainly about dealing with the protection of government assets,
government buildings, you know, those sorts of places, they're actually
very highly trained. By the way the AFPP we have
saphole protective police security officers that again do the same.
(08:08):
They're not members of the police force. They wear a
police uniform, but they're not really members of the police force,
but they carry firearm as well.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Okay, so we're not reinventing the wheel here, No, absolutely not. Okay.
So can I ask in terms of where they're going
to be deployed across the Northern territory, is there going
to be a bit of a roll out, like where
are they starting?
Speaker 2 (08:28):
So what we'll do is look at having them based
in our major centers, so Darwin, Catherine Tenant Creek and
Alice Springs. In the places like Catherine Tennant Creek and
Alice Springs, you'll probably see them fill up those pally
current pali roles doing the the bottoo type thing. But
they'll also feel What we needs to be mindful of
(08:49):
in those areas is that we're not reducing the services
that housing and DLI or transport provide at the moment
in those services, so we need to make sure that
we're continuing those services as well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
So now in terms of the number fifty six is
what we've been told is that going to be enough?
Is there going to be more so, that's.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
A number at the moment based on more than likely
the FTE of those two of housing as well as
transit safety. I can say at the moment that we
have vacancies with our palis, so the numbers may in
fact be quite a different more across once we actually
recruit through all of those ft and vacancies. There's a
(09:30):
lot of things to sort out between now and when
we get people on board, and some of those things
in talking with the Police Association, for instance, we need
to talk about their industrial entitlements and those sorts of things.
And I know there was a comment this morning saying
and I spoke to Nathan this morning. Yeah, for Nathan Finn,
the president of the association. We've been having good discussion.
(09:53):
We'll move into formal consultation when the comment is out there.
Very happy with it. I'm very happy with the discussions
that we're having. A formal proposal hasn't been sent to
the association yet, but will do in due time, okay,
And the relationship I have with the association will work
through all of those industrial relations things. And December, yeah,
(10:14):
well we are.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Due to catch up with Finny in a couple of
minutes time, so well, with's some questions to him. Hey,
I mean in terms of some of the concerns that
are being raised in the community. I know that am
Sant for example, they've said there is a trend towards
punitive measures first OC spray. Now these officers carrying guns,
(10:35):
they're fearing it's only going to lead to more violence
and put vulnerable people at risk. What's your response to
those concerns.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Katie, I suppose I run the Territory Community Safety Coordination Center,
which coordinates government and non government services to deal with
those any social behavior issues across the territory. And one
of the things that we want to do it's not punitive.
It's about getting people back to country. It's about getting
them the programs that they'll need to reduce their alcohol consumption,
(11:04):
to reduce their homelessness if that's what they choose. So
our frontline ppsos, even though they're armed and they're wearing
a police uniform, it may appear punitive. No, it's about engagement.
It's about helping the community and helping those people really
to get the services they need.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I mean, we've got some real issues at the moment
with anti social behavior and with public drunkenness and some
of the concerns then on our streets that do escalate, right,
I mean to those listening this morning that are maybe going, oh,
is this going to make a difference? Are we actually
going to see some inroads made as a result of
(11:41):
these ppsos? What do you say to those people listening
this morning, I.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Would say, in my thirty one year career of policing,
and we actually have been talking about this model for
quite some time, I think this is a great opportunity
to really help the community and help those vulnerable people
that we have in our community all across the territory
because it's that particular unit under that command in the
police force that will link in with all of those
(12:08):
government and non government agencies to get them the services
that they need. Now, we're not going to achieve at
one hundred percent, because we never will, but absolutely it
will go a great step toward it.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Well, Acting Deputy Commissioner James O'Brien, good to speak with
you this morning. Thank you very much for your time
and thank you for talking our listeners through a bit
more detail on this announcement.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Absolutely, Katie, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Thank you, thank you,
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