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August 8, 2023 18 mins

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jacana Energy yesterday announced that they're seeking expressions of interest
for the supply of up to one hundred megawatts of
renewable energy for the Catherine at Darwin region. Now joining
me on the line is the Acting Minister for Renewable Energy.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
She's also the Treasurer.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
And the Minister for Planning in Infrastructure and Logistics as
well as Education.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
Eva Laurla. Good morning to you, minister.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
Good morning Katie.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Now, Minister, how exactly is this going to work?

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Is the EOI for specific projects and locations?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Yes, so Jacana Energy, and I mean Jacana are the
retailer in the Northern Territory, but they obviously can see
the value of making sure we have more cleaner, greener,
more affordable power. So Jacana pulled down an expression of
interest for one hundred megawatts of solar as well as batteries.
So the expression of interest will be out for a
month and they're looking at possibly three by thirty megawatts

(00:53):
or three x thirty five megawatts solar farms. But the
area they're looking at is that renewable energy hub that
Northern Territory government in budget you know twenty twenty three
I put twelve million dollars into a renewable energy hub,
and that renewable energy hubbies in that area near Channel Island,
you know Weddell Middle Arm, that sort of area over
there which is close to close to Channel Island. So yeah,

(01:17):
really exciting. It's will provide about fifteen percent towards our
target of fifty percent renewables by twenty thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
So Minister, how will it work.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Are the proponents going to be gifted the land or
will they come to you with a with a proposal
of how they envisage it working.

Speaker 3 (01:33):
So yes, the Jacana will work. This will all be
part of their expression of interest. So the land is
a Northern Territory government land, that renewable energy Harby's land
that we have, that's Crown land. So then the proponents
will come with their expression of interest around what they
think they can do and the best deal obviously for Jacana.

(01:54):
Jacana is a government owned corporation. But yes, the land's
owned by Northern Territory Government will then work with you
know Jacana, So Crown Lands will work with Jacana around that.
So it will be the aim is to have it
up and running by twenty twenty seven. It's about a
two hundred million dollar investment in the territory in about
one hundred and fifty jobs. So a really good news
story all round for the territory government, but for territorians

(02:18):
really because it is about making sure we have that
more you know, the affordable, greener, cleaner power.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Look, it certainly sounds like a really good announcement and
hopefully you know, cleaner power for Territorians. But from what
I can gather, the proposed facilities are larger than those
three existing but largely idle farms at Bachelor, Manton Dam
and Catherine, two of which are about ten megga watts
as I understand it, and the others twenty five. Why

(02:44):
have those facilities not been switched on?

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Yep. So you know that's E and I. That's a
private company who's been working with Power and Water around
that commissioning phase. So there is about six stages that
they need to do and they are both I mean
all three of them are fully constructed did but at
the commissioning phase, Power and Water need to make sure
or system control with Power and Water need to make
sure that there is no system blacks that we don't

(03:09):
have all of the power go off in the Darwin
Catherine's electricity grid. So that's the work that's happening now.
So it is you know, easy enough probably you know,
but you know, straightforward to build a solar farm. But
then it's around those connections and that commissioning to make
sure that they can apply with the network technical code.
So that that's the hard work and it's the Catherine.

(03:33):
The Catherine solar farm has been putting some power into
the system, but it is about making sure then that
when you know, when they are all up and running,
that we can continue to have the stability of the
grid because that Darln Catherine system is only actually like
a microgrid, it is actually only a small grid compared
to what you see across Australia. So we do need

(03:54):
to make sure that we keep the pay the power stable.
So that's why you can't have put out an expression
of interest in batteries.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
So is that how this is going to be different.

Speaker 1 (04:03):
We're going to be in a situation where the new
projects that we've put the EIA for they're going to
require a battery.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
Yes, so we will it be solar farms as well
as a battery. So it's that firming that's needed that
stability that's needed so that essential system services. We miss
the technical term. But with Catherine Matt and Damon Batchlery,
it is making sure that there is that stability. So
it's all very well being able to put twenty five

(04:30):
megawatts into the system, but then it is you know,
if there's so if there's cloud cover, storm cover that
comes in, it then drops away and system control of
the people that then have to scramble to make sure
and stuff up.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Was it though with the other three solar farms, because
I mean, if we've got these large solar farms that
are already there and they need a battery, who's like,
who got it wrong?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
I mean, these are they were done in that work
started in early days of solar then twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen.
But it is about making sure that they can adhere
to that network technical code. But the other side is
also the d and Catherine Electricity system plan. Some of
that work is about making sure that Channel Island now
has some quick start generators so you know when you

(05:16):
see a drop, the generators that are there, and we
are putting in a quick start generator now, but you
know the generators that are there are large they stay
continuously running, so what and that's you know, that's a
bit of a waste if you've got Catherine Matt and
dam Bachelor. And I'm doing this very simply. I'm sure
there's some experts out there that might be criticizing me now,

(05:38):
but I'm trying to do it as simply as possible.
But yes, Catherine Matt and Dam and Bachelor, they come
in with the large amount of solar, you know, it
causes that drop. You need then a generator that can
quickly take that up. You need to have some quick starts.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Which we saw in Alice Springs a few years back
as well where there was those those power outages. So
so look, yeah, I understand, but I guess what I'm
trying to get to the bottom of is with the
new like with the new projects that the EOIs have
gone out for, so they will be required to also
have a battery as part of their EOI so that
we're not in this same situation again.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I mean, it will be silly not to learn from
previous issues. So of course, Jacana, who's you know, a
retailer in the territory who are on the ground here,
absolutely understand issues and they'll be making sure that they
don't make those same issues.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
So Minister just very quickly with those three existing ones
that are already there but require a battery or require
some kind of other I guess system back up, firming up.
What's the process now, who's going to foot the bill
for that?

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, So that's the work that's happening with Power and
Water now, and it has been happening for you know,
probably the last two years. Power and Water have been
working with and I very closely around finding solutions around
that that are yeah, not detrimental necessarily for shareholders, so
you know, the Northern Territory government and the public a

(07:00):
shareholders in government owned corporation. So that's the work that's
happening with A and I.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Now it sounds like a pretty big stuff up.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
I don't know. It's as I said, those early days
of solar and I mean, this isn't this isn't unusual.
It has happened also around Australia, you know, the solar
there was a rush for solar, but we do need
to make sure and that's you know the role of
power and water system control to make sure that the
lights stay on in dar on to on the Darn
Catherine electricity system. So yeah, we do need to make

(07:32):
sure that, yes, if there's an influx of solar, how
that's managed where they take the take the energy from.
But then if there's a drop off, then it's going
to t Gen and their generation that channel channel island
to provide that that back up and have that that
constant you know, essential system services. So it's not simple,

(07:52):
that's pure.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
It doesn't sound some.

Speaker 3 (07:54):
Experts who are listening here who probably could find a
much better explanation than I am, but yes, very much.
You know, it's not something that Northern Territory government wanted
to happen, but it has been some work that has
to be done because nobody wants a blackout.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
I guess just very quickly before we move along, are
taxpayer is going to have to foot the bill for
that for that situation?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
Well, as I said that, that will be worked through.
So that's the you know, the toing and throwings between
power and water and system control, but also Jacana who
are the retailer, so they're continuing to work through all
of that.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
So you know, when do you reckon, we'll know when
do you reckon, we'll have an outcome.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Well, yeah, as I said, well, the outcome will be
that they will be fully connected. And Catherine has had
the Catherine Solofarm has had times where it has been
supplying power into the grid. So that will be the
through that endpoint. As I said, hopefully sooner rather than later.
But there's been not lots of meetings between he and
I and Power and Water. Literally, I think those meetings

(08:58):
happen almost weekly or fortnightly.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Minister. We will move along.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
Because yesterday doctors in Canberra against fracking and development at
Middle Arm Precinct, well, Monique Ryan was one of them.
She actually called on the Prime Minister yesterday in Parliament.
For those who don't know who Monique Ryan is, she
is indeed one of those Teeal independents. She called on
the Prime Minister to withdraw support for the Middle Arm

(09:22):
Precinct project. Is the project really sustainable?

Speaker 3 (09:28):
This is as I said, it is frustrating when you have,
as we say, people from elsewhere who think that they
know what's going on in the territory. She's, as far
as I know, she's never come up to the territory.
She hasn't arks for a briefing around Middle Arm, so
it's easy to pick on the Northern Territory almost you know,
have a look at some of the other states and
find a project there that you might want to pick on.

(09:48):
But let's be really clear. The Environmental Protection Authority, the EPA,
the Independent EPA is doing the highest level of environmental
assessments at Middle ARM, so they're doing a cross the
board assessments there. Then every individual proponent that goes into
Middle ARM will also have to have their environmental assessments done,
so that overarching environmental assessment will make sure that you know,

(10:12):
whether it's the airshed that doesn't exceed limits, whether around
the biodiversity. So the Independent EPA will be assessing all
of that. So I think they think it's because it's
a northern territory that you know, we'll just be going
straight ahead and you know, allowing these proponents in then
everybody will do what they want. Absolutely the total opposite.

(10:32):
We have. Our Environmental Protection Act is one of the
best in Australia. That was when I was the Environment Minister.
We updated the ep Act and that was a huge
amount of work and as I said, it's been recognized
as one of the best, if not the best, in
Australia Environmental protect So it.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
Doesn't sound as though you're going to be swayed by
Polly's down south at this point.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
No, it doesn't, and I mean the previous government, so
the you know, the Liberal National Coalition committed one point
five billion. Labour's committed that one point five billion as well.
And it is about jobs for territorians. It is about
making sure when we saw the offshore oil and gas
when impects we don't see any of that gas being well,

(11:16):
we see some of it being used, but we don't
see it. Most of it goes to Japan. Now I
think it provides about ten percent of gas of Japan's electricity.
So that was the issue around or not the issue,
but it was the thing that we wanted to do
around around the Beaterloo. How do we actually instead of
it just going straight past the territory and be exported,

(11:36):
how do we actually get jobs for territorians out of this?
How do we actually get ongoing employment, long term employment?
And so that was the whole concept of middle arm
or tying in middle arm to that. But you know,
final arm is much more than that. It is about
hydrogen production. So yeah, a look about.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
Playing I know we've got a lot of listeners that
listen to the show who will actually agree with you,
who will say, you know, they join jobs for Territori se.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
When people from south down south. But you know the
bottom line is otherwise the federal government will have to
continue to bail out the Northern Territory. This is and
this is with my Treasurer hat On. This is about
growing our own source revenue. I can't even build a
road in the Northern Territory without going to the federal
government to get eighty percent or fifty percent of funding
for that. This is about making sure that week as

(12:23):
a territory can increase our own source revenue and not
rely on the federal government.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Minister to play devil's advocate, because I know there'll be
others listening who are saying, what about the environment. There
are doctors that have gone down there from the Northern
Territory as well who've got concerns. Is the government prepared
to meet with those doctors.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
I know I met with them when I was the
Environment minister. I met with them a number of times.
So yeah, of course we meet with those people. Very
happy to meet with them. As I said, they're just
like any other stakeholder in that environment area. So whether
it's you know the environment anyway, all of those groups
I know as environment Minister, that was part of your portfolio.

(13:01):
You met with your stakeholders. It's whether it's education, Treasury, infrastructure,
always meeting stakeholders, Minister.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I want to move on to another portfolio, the education portfolio,
because there is a parent who's been in contact with
us with a situation that was very real for them yesterday.
Mel says her daughter was left abandoned yesterday morning near
Behrma after the school bus driver missed her stop on
Mula Road. She's then asked to she then has to
walk to o'lachlan, is my understanding. He refused to let

(13:29):
her off at Marara Christian College, but then kicked her
off the bus out the back of the RSPCA, heading
down vandal and drive to Behrama.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Now.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Her mom says that she was harassed at the bus
stop and started running back down Vandalen. She tried to
refuse to get off, begging the driver to take her
to school so she could ring her mum.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Now, she was apparently terrified.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
And called the school for help, who called CDC with
the phone ringing out. Her mom says that she found
her near the old Police Youth Center. Her mom says
she's appalled at the lack of duty of care leaving
a fifteen year old on the side of the road,
and this is not the first time that it's happened.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Minister. Firstly, what is your reaction upon hearing that?

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, that sounds terrible, Katie. Absolutely not what we'd want
to see. So CDC is a company, so it's you know,
the buses are privatized, but they do have you know,
avenues from complaints, so I can work through that one.
There's CCTV on the buses, so I know we've had
If we have any complaints around the buses, then there's

(14:35):
investigations and so we can work through that to get
to the bottom of it. Now they identify the driver
and follow through around that. But no, no shocking situation.
Terrible situation by the sounds of it. But so I
can I can get I mean, I've got obviously staff
that are listening. Yep, we can follow up around that.
So as a Lachland College for s Yeah, we'll make.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Sure we get those details for you because we are
due to catch up with them a little bit later
this morning as well. So I think that her mum
would be really good grateful if that was followed up.
And I know that it's not the first time we've
had parents contact us about, you know, about bus routes
being missed, about children being left behind and that kind
of thing. So I guess the point is that there
are some parents that are pretty concerned at what they

(15:17):
see as a lack of service or a lack of
the standard that you'd expect in some cases.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Yeah, so you know, CDC have the contract and that
contract is managed by the Department of Infrastructure the Transport Areas,
and yeah, I will chase that up with the director
there to follow up because they can investigate and then
that's through their contract management.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
We'd appreciate that. But now, just a very quick one.
Digital drivers' licenses. It's something that hospitality and you're going
to talk to us about a little bit later on
the show. But is it something that you're moving towards
or that you're planning to move towards.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So often get asked around digital driver's
license because everybody just carries their phone now, so there
is some work nationally that's happening so that there can
be that consistency across Australia. But yes, we are working
towards that. But yeah, I very much want to see
digital driver's licenses. I couldn't give you a timeline without

(16:16):
a bit of an update and a briefing around it.
But it's something that we do want to see in
the territory and I know the Department are doing that work,
but it's working with DCDD as well the IT area
of Northern Territory Government.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Just a very quick one, I know your press for time.
Is there a bit of an update when it comes
to OC spray. Earlier this year the government did announce
that you're going to be working through the final stages
of the role out of the OC spray for transit
safety officers.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Where are things at?

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, so there has been initial training and the GEL.
So we're very much focused on the GEL, which is
a targeted deployment rather than having its spray. It's a
less disbursement around that, so we have to wait for
the legislation to pass before we've ordered that. So we've
ordered the GEL and now the department's been working on

(17:07):
the other policies procedures that have been putting in washdown
facilities for decontainment, that decontamination at the interchanges as well,
but hopefully probably I'm thinking around September October we'll see
OC spray or the gel being used at buses on
bus routes and interchanges as well.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Is that later than you'd hot.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I can't remember the exact timeline, but it was around
getting the legislation in place, because you've got to get
the legislation before you order, and you I think it's
ordered from the US and you have to have you
can't just bring into Australia's spray or gel, so we
have to get the legislation pass, which we did. We've
now ordered that, but there's also the training that's been

(17:51):
that initial training that's been undertaken as well, and then
it's been the policies procedures. There's been a whole hip
work that has to be done before we can actually
just deploy them. So I think September was the timeline
and I think that's what we're still aiming for them.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well Treasurer and also Minister Well for Various Portfolios and
acting as a Renewables Minister at the moment. Evia Laula
always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for chatting
with us and we would be really grateful if you
are able to follow up that situation with the child.
Thank you so much for your time this morning.
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