Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Earlier in the week, we told you about a report
in the Australian newspaper that the Chief Justice of the
Northern Territory had said some extreme attacks on Aboriginal women
have been attributed to bullshit traditional violence, in which perpetrators
seek to justify their crime as the enforcement of their rights.
As he warn domestic violences likely worsened in the top
(00:23):
end now. Chief Justice Michael Grant was speaking to lawyers
at a Darwin conference earlier this month and referenced an
Indigenous commentator who noted that drunk Indigenous men abuse their
partners for illegitimate reasons, before explaining away the attacks as
some sort of traditional right now. He also said that
(00:43):
Commonwealth legislation introduced in two thousand and six was intended
to protect Aboriginal women by ensuring traditional practices could not
be taken into account when sentencing domestic violence offenders. However,
he said, if anything, violence against Aboriginal women in the
Northern Territory had increase since those laws were introduced. Now
(01:06):
joining me on the line is the Attorney General of
the Northern Territory, Marie Clai Boothby. Good morning to your
Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good morning, Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, as
we know the Chief Justice, well, he's not a man
who seeks headlines. In fact, it's pretty rare to see
public commentary from him, so when he speaks, many will
indeed take notice. What did you make of the comments
that he made about alcohol, traditional violence and the increased
(01:36):
numbers of domestic violence that we're saying, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think you're right, Katie. You know, he doesn't come
out and you know, create a whole hit the headlines.
But he's a very experienced Supreme Court judge. He's been
around a long time, and of course he's a territory
and as well born and bred, so he does understand
a lot of what goes on. And of course we
know that domestic violence in the territory is it's a terrible,
(02:00):
terrible state of affairs, and it has been like this
for a very long time. I mean, we agree with him.
You know, violence is violence and it is not acceptable
for any reason. You know, it's culture, tradition, race, none
of that is an excuse for violence, and so we
agree with him. I meet with the Chief Justice regularly
(02:22):
and we're always trying to look at new ways to
be able to make changes here in the Northern Territory
so that we don't see these levels of domestic violence
occur throughout the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
He said at that Pittington Society event, which was on August, states,
I'm now firmly of the view, after ten years in
my current role, that personal and specific deterrens don't operate
on our Aboriginal offenders as they might do on other offenders.
He also said Commonwealth legislation introduced in two thousand and
(02:55):
six was intended to protect Aboriginal women by ensuring traditional
practices could not be taken into account when sentencing domestic
violence offenders. However, he said that if anything, violence against
Aboriginal women in the territory had increased since those laws
were introduced, is it time to request that the federal
(03:16):
government look at this legislation. I'm my understanding is, like
I said there, it's Commonwealth legislation, So is it time
to have those discussions.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think as a territory we need to look at
all of the different legislation that we have available to us,
as well as what we have you know, out in
our communities available to us as well, and that one
piece of legislation is only one part of this massive
puzzle that we've got. I mean, of course, in the territory,
we have our own laws, and we saw over a
number of years those laws of domestic violence be watered
(03:48):
down so that the perpetrator were kind of given more
rights than the victim. And that's just not the way
territorians expect justice to be delivered. Like the victims should
absolutely have the right, it's above offenders. And so as
a government, that's the work that we have started in
terms of making sure that victim's rights are above the offenders.
(04:09):
And you know that, I think there's a lot of
work to be done out in our Aboriginal communities as well,
like on the ground. I mean, those the leaders that
come forward and speak up about these things, they need
to be supported to do more in their communities and
because that's where a lot of sadly, a lot of
this stuff occurs. And you know, as a government, we
don't accept that level of violence. We also call out
(04:33):
those people who call us racist for toughening the laws.
I mean, it's not racist to want a safer community,
and that's exactly what territorians want is a safer community,
and so you know that that's work that continues. It's
not just commonalth legislation that could be looked at, but
right across the territory as well.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Attorney General, do you think that traditional culture contributes to
our shocking rates of domestic violence?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Look, I think there's a number of factors involved. But
what I can say, Katie is that I do not
buy any of those excuses as to why it is
okay to have violence against another person, especially of those
people that you are supposed to love dearly. And so
you know, if that is something that is used as
an excuse, either during police investigations or during a court process,
(05:21):
then you know, it's great that the common Wealth did say, well,
you can't use those as a reason when you are
taking into consideration the sentencing for that, because it shouldn't
be a reason to have that kind of violence against someone.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
All Right, I want to move along because the Standing
Council of Attorneys General meeting was held in Sydney last
week where Attorneys general from across across the Northern Territory,
across all of Australia meant to strengthen the justice system
and community Safety. Now the Council agreed to urgently work
towards the implementation by the end of twenty twenty five
of mutual recognition of negative working with Children check notices.
(05:59):
Why is this going? You know, why is this happening
and do you think it's going to make much of
a difference for us here in the Northern Territory. How
do things currently work?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, Katie, this is a regular meeting that the Attorney's
General have right across Australia with the Commonwealth Attorney General
as well, and this particular meeting was quite focused on
these working with Children checks, which is something that each
state in territory has the responsibility for and so in
other states they've had some challenges where cards they provoked
(06:30):
or and then you know, somebody can actually go and
apply again and it's sort of not it can take
into consideration when you move. And so we agreed, as
all jurisdictions that we do want to work towards a
strengthened system. What I did make very clear to the
Commonwealth is that the Northern Territory does need investment in
(06:50):
this space. We can't do it alone. If you know,
there's a lot of technology that goes into doing this,
and we don't have the same sorts of challenge lenges.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's just out of stately, seems unbelievable to me that
we don't already have this uniform across the nation, like
if somebody, you know, if somebody has a negative working
with children check. Notice how there's not some kind of
red mark against their names so they simply cannot go
and work in another state.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, it's a little bit different to a police criminal
history check. It kind of there's kind of a lot
of different layers. And I guess that's why this has
come to light and that it was also given to
the attorney generals, even though it sort of sits across
a number of other areas and other ministries. But I
guess the good thing is that we did agree that
we all need to work towards something where we do
(07:41):
have that safest strengthened system because it is all stated
by state based and every state agreed with this, you know,
working towards implementation of it. But again, like I said,
in the territory, we do need that investment from the commonwealth,
and I made it very clear, and they did say
that they are willing to work with us on that
(08:02):
and so that work will you know, continue I guess
it's always been there, but will continue it to make
sure that, you know, our system works the best that
it possibly can be. So at the.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Moment, like at the moment, could we have somebody that
has actually been you know, red card by another state
move here to the Northern Territory and could be working
with kids and we don't even know.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, they've got a national reference system across all of
the states and territories which does highlight you know, certain
things that happen in certain triggers, and so it is
very rare that that would happen, but we want to
make sure that we're closing down any of those gaps,
just to be sure because in other states there has
been a case where that happened. So I guess at
(08:50):
the end of the day, it's working towards a strengthened system.
You know many right across Australia, many of the systems
aren't perfect and we always need to be looking at
what we can do to strengthen them and of course
work together hand in hand with all of our colleagues
from across across Australia to make sure that we're always
putting children at the forefront of what we need in
(09:13):
our safety systems and do that work that's needed.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
But so essentially we are now going to need this
new national reference system, so it's going to have to
be rolled out. Is that correct here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, we agreed to work towards it. My understanding is
that we are the only jurisdiction that doesn't have the
proper access to it. This has been a decade old
problem that it's never been addressed, to be honest, and
so we now are working with the Commonwealth to tap
into that system. And that's not to say that there's
(09:47):
not a system that exists now. We do have a system,
but we want to make sure that we make it
as strong as possible so that there aren't any of
those people that fall through the cracks. We want those
extra safeguards and of course it's because we want our
children to be safe. So we'll do that work with
the FEDS, and you know, we have the backing of
the whole country on that.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, Attorney General, what assurances can you give to territorians
this morning though, when we don't actually you know, to
reassure parents, I guess that we don't have unsafe people
working in child care centers.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, what I'll say to parents is that we don't
have these same challenges that they've seen in other jurisdictions,
and we're much smaller population. We have our own checks,
our police do a great job in the systems that
they have that they work on, so there's no need
for alarm in this space. What is good is that
we as different jurisdictions across the country can come together
(10:44):
and look at how we can keep strengthening the systems
that we have already in place to make them better,
you know, going forward, and of course we always want
to make things better and more safe and more strong,
so that's the work that we're doing well.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Attorney General of the Northern Territory, Mari Clear Boothby really
appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for having
a chat with us.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Thank you,
Earlier in the week, we told you about a report
in the Australian newspaper that the Chief Justice of the
Northern Territory had said some extreme attacks on Aboriginal women
have been attributed to bullshit traditional violence, in which perpetrators
seek to justify their crime as the enforcement of their rights.
As he warn domestic violences likely worsened in the top
(00:23):
end now. Chief Justice Michael Grant was speaking to lawyers
at a Darwin conference earlier this month and referenced an
Indigenous commentator who noted that drunk Indigenous men abuse their
partners for illegitimate reasons, before explaining away the attacks as
some sort of traditional right now. He also said that
(00:43):
Commonwealth legislation introduced in two thousand and six was intended
to protect Aboriginal women by ensuring traditional practices could not
be taken into account when sentencing domestic violence offenders. However,
he said, if anything, violence against Aboriginal women in the
Northern Territory had increase since those laws were introduced. Now
(01:06):
joining me on the line is the Attorney General of
the Northern Territory, Marie Clai Boothby. Good morning to your
Attorney General.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Good morning, Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, as
we know the Chief Justice, well, he's not a man
who seeks headlines. In fact, it's pretty rare to see
public commentary from him, so when he speaks, many will
indeed take notice. What did you make of the comments
that he made about alcohol, traditional violence and the increased
(01:36):
numbers of domestic violence that we're saying, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I think you're right, Katie. You know, he doesn't come
out and you know, create a whole hit the headlines.
But he's a very experienced Supreme Court judge. He's been
around a long time, and of course he's a territory
and as well born and bred, so he does understand
a lot of what goes on. And of course we
know that domestic violence in the territory is it's a terrible,
(02:00):
terrible state of affairs, and it has been like this
for a very long time. I mean, we agree with him.
You know, violence is violence and it is not acceptable
for any reason. You know, it's culture, tradition, race, none
of that is an excuse for violence, and so we
agree with him. I meet with the Chief Justice regularly
(02:22):
and we're always trying to look at new ways to
be able to make changes here in the Northern Territory
so that we don't see these levels of domestic violence
occur throughout the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
He said at that Pittington Society event, which was on August, states,
I'm now firmly of the view, after ten years in
my current role, that personal and specific deterrens don't operate
on our Aboriginal offenders as they might do on other offenders.
He also said Commonwealth legislation introduced in two thousand and
(02:55):
six was intended to protect Aboriginal women by ensuring traditional
practices could not be taken into account when sentencing domestic
violence offenders. However, he said that if anything, violence against
Aboriginal women in the territory had increased since those laws
were introduced, is it time to request that the federal
(03:16):
government look at this legislation. I'm my understanding is, like
I said there, it's Commonwealth legislation, So is it time
to have those discussions.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
I think as a territory we need to look at
all of the different legislation that we have available to us,
as well as what we have you know, out in
our communities available to us as well, and that one
piece of legislation is only one part of this massive
puzzle that we've got. I mean, of course, in the territory,
we have our own laws, and we saw over a
number of years those laws of domestic violence be watered
(03:48):
down so that the perpetrator were kind of given more
rights than the victim. And that's just not the way
territorians expect justice to be delivered. Like the victims should
absolutely have the right, it's above offenders. And so as
a government, that's the work that we have started in
terms of making sure that victim's rights are above the offenders.
(04:09):
And you know that, I think there's a lot of
work to be done out in our Aboriginal communities as well,
like on the ground. I mean, those the leaders that
come forward and speak up about these things, they need
to be supported to do more in their communities and
because that's where a lot of sadly, a lot of
this stuff occurs. And you know, as a government, we
don't accept that level of violence. We also call out
(04:33):
those people who call us racist for toughening the laws.
I mean, it's not racist to want a safer community,
and that's exactly what territorians want is a safer community,
and so you know that that's work that continues. It's
not just commonalth legislation that could be looked at, but
right across the territory as well.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Attorney General, do you think that traditional culture contributes to
our shocking rates of domestic violence?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Look, I think there's a number of factors involved. But
what I can say, Katie is that I do not
buy any of those excuses as to why it is
okay to have violence against another person, especially of those
people that you are supposed to love dearly. And so
you know, if that is something that is used as
an excuse, either during police investigations or during a court process,
(05:21):
then you know, it's great that the common Wealth did say, well,
you can't use those as a reason when you are
taking into consideration the sentencing for that, because it shouldn't
be a reason to have that kind of violence against someone.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
All Right, I want to move along because the Standing
Council of Attorneys General meeting was held in Sydney last
week where Attorneys general from across across the Northern Territory,
across all of Australia meant to strengthen the justice system
and community Safety. Now the Council agreed to urgently work
towards the implementation by the end of twenty twenty five
of mutual recognition of negative working with Children check notices.
(05:59):
Why is this going? You know, why is this happening
and do you think it's going to make much of
a difference for us here in the Northern Territory. How
do things currently work?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yeah, Katie, this is a regular meeting that the Attorney's
General have right across Australia with the Commonwealth Attorney General
as well, and this particular meeting was quite focused on
these working with Children checks, which is something that each
state in territory has the responsibility for and so in
other states they've had some challenges where cards they provoked
(06:30):
or and then you know, somebody can actually go and
apply again and it's sort of not it can take
into consideration when you move. And so we agreed, as
all jurisdictions that we do want to work towards a
strengthened system. What I did make very clear to the
Commonwealth is that the Northern Territory does need investment in
(06:50):
this space. We can't do it alone. If you know,
there's a lot of technology that goes into doing this,
and we don't have the same sorts of challenge lenges.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's just out of stately, seems unbelievable to me that
we don't already have this uniform across the nation, like
if somebody, you know, if somebody has a negative working
with children check. Notice how there's not some kind of
red mark against their names so they simply cannot go
and work in another state.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, it's a little bit different to a police criminal
history check. It kind of there's kind of a lot
of different layers. And I guess that's why this has
come to light and that it was also given to
the attorney generals, even though it sort of sits across
a number of other areas and other ministries. But I
guess the good thing is that we did agree that
we all need to work towards something where we do
(07:41):
have that safest strengthened system because it is all stated
by state based and every state agreed with this, you know,
working towards implementation of it. But again, like I said,
in the territory, we do need that investment from the commonwealth,
and I made it very clear, and they did say
that they are willing to work with us on that
(08:02):
and so that work will you know, continue I guess
it's always been there, but will continue it to make
sure that, you know, our system works the best that
it possibly can be. So at the.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Moment, like at the moment, could we have somebody that
has actually been you know, red card by another state
move here to the Northern Territory and could be working
with kids and we don't even know.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Well, they've got a national reference system across all of
the states and territories which does highlight you know, certain
things that happen in certain triggers, and so it is
very rare that that would happen, but we want to
make sure that we're closing down any of those gaps,
just to be sure because in other states there has
been a case where that happened. So I guess at
(08:50):
the end of the day, it's working towards a strengthened system.
You know many right across Australia, many of the systems
aren't perfect and we always need to be looking at
what we can do to strengthen them and of course
work together hand in hand with all of our colleagues
from across across Australia to make sure that we're always
putting children at the forefront of what we need in
(09:13):
our safety systems and do that work that's needed.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
But so essentially we are now going to need this
new national reference system, so it's going to have to
be rolled out. Is that correct here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Yeah, we agreed to work towards it. My understanding is
that we are the only jurisdiction that doesn't have the
proper access to it. This has been a decade old
problem that it's never been addressed, to be honest, and
so we now are working with the Commonwealth to tap
into that system. And that's not to say that there's
(09:47):
not a system that exists now. We do have a system,
but we want to make sure that we make it
as strong as possible so that there aren't any of
those people that fall through the cracks. We want those
extra safeguards and of course it's because we want our
children to be safe. So we'll do that work with
the FEDS, and you know, we have the backing of
the whole country on that.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, Attorney General, what assurances can you give to territorians
this morning though, when we don't actually you know, to
reassure parents, I guess that we don't have unsafe people
working in child care centers.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Well, what I'll say to parents is that we don't
have these same challenges that they've seen in other jurisdictions,
and we're much smaller population. We have our own checks,
our police do a great job in the systems that
they have that they work on, so there's no need
for alarm in this space. What is good is that
we as different jurisdictions across the country can come together
(10:44):
and look at how we can keep strengthening the systems
that we have already in place to make them better,
you know, going forward, and of course we always want
to make things better and more safe and more strong,
so that's the work that we're doing well.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Attorney General of the Northern Territory, Mari Clear Boothby really
appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for having
a chat with us.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Thank you,
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