November 19, 2025 • 8 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We are due to catch up with the Australian Banking
Association of Australia because they're urging Territorians and indeed everybody
across Australia to stay a lurse as Black Friday sales
kick off, with shoppers losing almost forty million dollars to
scams in the past year. And I know that we
all always think to ourselves, oh, it's not going to
(00:20):
happen to us. You know, I'm sure that I Am
not going to be scammed, But it actually happens a
lot more easy than what people would probably realize. And
we've spoken to Territorians at different times over the years
who've been scammed out of their long or their hard
earned cash, and it's pretty devastating for people. And sometimes,
you know, you're talking scams that are more sort of
(00:40):
a matter of being sent an invoice that you think
you've got coming, not actually double checking the bank account
and the BSB and ending up putting that money and
in some cases huge amounts of money into the wrong account.
But then when you look at the Black Friday sales,
sometimes there may be websites or you know, different different side,
so you think you're buying something that's from an official
(01:03):
website and it turns out that it's not. So it's
something we'll all be keeping a really close eye on
because we know that The CEO of the Australian Banking
Association has said that scammers are increasingly using AI to
mimic real brands, to create fake websites and to post
bogus social media listings. Now joining me on the line
(01:27):
to tell us more about the ways in which we
can be safe. I just seem to be having a
bit of an issue with my phone line, but I
think I've got him now. It is the Australian Banking
Association's CEO, Simon Birmingham. Good morning to you, Simon.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Good morning with you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, lovely to catch up with you as well. Simon,
tell me, I mean, we know that AI has really
changed everything. I guess when it comes to a lot
of what we're doing in our day to day lives,
but mimicking real brands to create fake websites and posting
bogus social media listings, it certainly is a bit worrying
as we head into the Christmas period. In the Black
(02:06):
Friday sales.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, it is Katie and totally understand we all like
to get a good bargain where we can, and Australians
are estimated to spend around seven billion dollars during these
Black Friday sales. But it's really a warning to just
take a little bit of extra care in the race
to get that bargain. If it takes you an extra
couple of minutes to check that the website you're on
(02:29):
is the real deal and not a fake, and to
check that any communications you get are coming from a
real seller, not somebody pretending to be a seller or
pretending to be a delivery agent, then it's worth your
time because it could save your money and save you
being one of around forty million dollars worth of losses
(02:50):
in shopping scams that the Australians currently face each year.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
That is wild. That's such a phenomenal amount of money
that people have been scammed.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Okay it is now it's a real battle to try
to cramp down on this and to make sure that
these scams are stopped. So we talked about AI and
the introduction. Banks are using those tools to really try
to stop and slow down scamming and to give bank
customers a greater power and choice to know when they're
(03:22):
transferring money who they're transferring it to through confirmation of
paye technologies, to be able to intervene in transactions that
appear to be higher risk and stop or pause them.
And these technologies are a race against the scammers. But
banks are sort of the last line of defense. The
first line of defense is good consumer behavior and making
(03:44):
sure that people actually take a bit of care when
they're undertaking purchases themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, simon, what are some of the biggest scam trends
that shoppers need to be watching out for this year?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So you mentioned a couple in the intro. Obviously, the
duplication of websites, so that increasing ability for scammers to
make a website look like it's the real deal. So
you should check the URL address properly and carefully. You
should use a proper search engine to also perhaps double
check that it's taking you to a legitimate site for
(04:20):
whatever goods it is that you're looking to purchase from,
whichever known retailer you're looking to purchase it from. There's also,
of course, still the barrage of fake text messages, emails
often linked to delivery arrangements or the like, and A
key message is that once you've paid for your goods,
no legitimate retailer should or would be asking you to
(04:43):
pay any more. So if you get messages around the
delivery saying that you need to give you credit card
details again or that you need to make some additional
payment for delivery, that should really send off the alarm
bells which you go back to the source that you
bought it from and double check whether any of that
is true.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, Simon, I don't know if it's insight into some
of my shopping habits, but I definitely get some of those,
you know, the fake ones pretending to be delivering your parcel.
And you know, I always make sure that I just
use the Australia Post app or go to their website
to track anything before I click on any of those links.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Exactly, Katie. Using known and verified and trusted sources is
one of the safest ways to go, and that includes
the places that you choose to shop. Doesn't mean that
you can't go and look at new sites or new places,
but make sure you do a little bit of due
diligence and checking to ensure that others are having positive
(05:41):
experiences in actually getting the goods that they get. And
remember that old adage if it if it seems or
sounds too good to be true, then it might be
your sales period. It probably still is too good to
be true.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Exactly exactly. We all love a good sale, but you've
got to make sure you're being careful, Simon, what's one
final piece of advice you've got for territoryrians. As I
know there'd be a lot of people getting messages over
the next twenty four hours or so about the Black
Friday sales, what do we need to make sure that
we're aware of.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, in addition to all of those steps, are just
taking that bit of extra care, pausing, checking, verifying. Look,
the one last thing is unfortunately, if you do get scammed,
please do report it. There's no guarantee that your bank
or anybody else can get the money back for you,
but if you report it, it increases the chance that
they'll be able to stop the next person from being
(06:30):
scammed because they'll have better information to work with.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, and I always hear from people as well, Simon.
You know they're a bit embarrassed after they do maybe
get caught up in a scam and they feel like
they've done something wrong, and you know, we all do
need to make sure we're more careful and as vigilant
as we can be. But there's no shame in it,
you know, make sure that you do report it, make
sure you tell someone and do your best. If there's
a way you know to be able to stop from
(06:55):
being able to make that final payment, do what you
need to do to try and stop it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, indegating that really is a key thing for everyone
that it can happen to the best of us, can
happen in any circumstances, and so definitely just don't be
afraid to report because has said, may not get you
your money back. But it's absolutely key when you think
about how banks and others in the scams ecosystem can
(07:24):
go about ensuring that others don't get scamms in the future.
Knowing the details of scams that are happy and is crucial,
and I only wish that social media companies did more
as well. We had shocking revelations just the other week
that Meta, the Facebook and Instagram owners are taking billions
of dollars in known scam ads, and it really just
(07:47):
shows how important the fight is for consumers and others
to play their part, and certainly banks and legitimate retailers
and we're all working hard to try to do what
we can and we'd love to see those social media
companies step up to the party.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yes, spot On couldn't agree more. Well, Simon Birmingham, the
Australian Banking Association CEO. Great to catch up with you,
Thanks so much for your time this morning.
We are due to catch up with the Australian Banking
Association of Australia because they're urging Territorians and indeed everybody
across Australia to stay a lurse as Black Friday sales
kick off, with shoppers losing almost forty million dollars to
scams in the past year. And I know that we
all always think to ourselves, oh, it's not going to
(00:20):
happen to us. You know, I'm sure that I Am
not going to be scammed, But it actually happens a
lot more easy than what people would probably realize. And
we've spoken to Territorians at different times over the years
who've been scammed out of their long or their hard
earned cash, and it's pretty devastating for people. And sometimes,
you know, you're talking scams that are more sort of
(00:40):
a matter of being sent an invoice that you think
you've got coming, not actually double checking the bank account
and the BSB and ending up putting that money and
in some cases huge amounts of money into the wrong account.
But then when you look at the Black Friday sales,
sometimes there may be websites or you know, different different side,
so you think you're buying something that's from an official
(01:03):
website and it turns out that it's not. So it's
something we'll all be keeping a really close eye on
because we know that The CEO of the Australian Banking
Association has said that scammers are increasingly using AI to
mimic real brands, to create fake websites and to post
bogus social media listings. Now joining me on the line
(01:27):
to tell us more about the ways in which we
can be safe. I just seem to be having a
bit of an issue with my phone line, but I
think I've got him now. It is the Australian Banking
Association's CEO, Simon Birmingham. Good morning to you, Simon.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Good morning with you.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, lovely to catch up with you as well. Simon,
tell me, I mean, we know that AI has really
changed everything. I guess when it comes to a lot
of what we're doing in our day to day lives,
but mimicking real brands to create fake websites and posting
bogus social media listings, it certainly is a bit worrying
as we head into the Christmas period. In the Black
(02:06):
Friday sales.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Well, it is Katie and totally understand we all like
to get a good bargain where we can, and Australians
are estimated to spend around seven billion dollars during these
Black Friday sales. But it's really a warning to just
take a little bit of extra care in the race
to get that bargain. If it takes you an extra
couple of minutes to check that the website you're on
(02:29):
is the real deal and not a fake, and to
check that any communications you get are coming from a
real seller, not somebody pretending to be a seller or
pretending to be a delivery agent, then it's worth your
time because it could save your money and save you
being one of around forty million dollars worth of losses
(02:50):
in shopping scams that the Australians currently face each year.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
That is wild. That's such a phenomenal amount of money
that people have been scammed.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Okay it is now it's a real battle to try
to cramp down on this and to make sure that
these scams are stopped. So we talked about AI and
the introduction. Banks are using those tools to really try
to stop and slow down scamming and to give bank
customers a greater power and choice to know when they're
(03:22):
transferring money who they're transferring it to through confirmation of
paye technologies, to be able to intervene in transactions that
appear to be higher risk and stop or pause them.
And these technologies are a race against the scammers. But
banks are sort of the last line of defense. The
first line of defense is good consumer behavior and making
(03:44):
sure that people actually take a bit of care when
they're undertaking purchases themselves.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, simon, what are some of the biggest scam trends
that shoppers need to be watching out for this year?
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So you mentioned a couple in the intro. Obviously, the
duplication of websites, so that increasing ability for scammers to
make a website look like it's the real deal. So
you should check the URL address properly and carefully. You
should use a proper search engine to also perhaps double
check that it's taking you to a legitimate site for
(04:20):
whatever goods it is that you're looking to purchase from,
whichever known retailer you're looking to purchase it from. There's also,
of course, still the barrage of fake text messages, emails
often linked to delivery arrangements or the like, and A
key message is that once you've paid for your goods,
no legitimate retailer should or would be asking you to
(04:43):
pay any more. So if you get messages around the
delivery saying that you need to give you credit card
details again or that you need to make some additional
payment for delivery, that should really send off the alarm
bells which you go back to the source that you
bought it from and double check whether any of that
is true.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, Simon, I don't know if it's insight into some
of my shopping habits, but I definitely get some of those,
you know, the fake ones pretending to be delivering your parcel.
And you know, I always make sure that I just
use the Australia Post app or go to their website
to track anything before I click on any of those links.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Exactly, Katie. Using known and verified and trusted sources is
one of the safest ways to go, and that includes
the places that you choose to shop. Doesn't mean that
you can't go and look at new sites or new places,
but make sure you do a little bit of due
diligence and checking to ensure that others are having positive
(05:41):
experiences in actually getting the goods that they get. And
remember that old adage if it if it seems or
sounds too good to be true, then it might be
your sales period. It probably still is too good to
be true.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Exactly exactly. We all love a good sale, but you've
got to make sure you're being careful, Simon, what's one
final piece of advice you've got for territoryrians. As I
know there'd be a lot of people getting messages over
the next twenty four hours or so about the Black
Friday sales, what do we need to make sure that
we're aware of.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Well, in addition to all of those steps, are just
taking that bit of extra care, pausing, checking, verifying. Look,
the one last thing is unfortunately, if you do get scammed,
please do report it. There's no guarantee that your bank
or anybody else can get the money back for you,
but if you report it, it increases the chance that
they'll be able to stop the next person from being
(06:30):
scammed because they'll have better information to work with.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yeah, and I always hear from people as well, Simon.
You know they're a bit embarrassed after they do maybe
get caught up in a scam and they feel like
they've done something wrong, and you know, we all do
need to make sure we're more careful and as vigilant
as we can be. But there's no shame in it,
you know, make sure that you do report it, make
sure you tell someone and do your best. If there's
a way you know to be able to stop from
(06:55):
being able to make that final payment, do what you
need to do to try and stop it.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, indegating that really is a key thing for everyone
that it can happen to the best of us, can
happen in any circumstances, and so definitely just don't be
afraid to report because has said, may not get you
your money back. But it's absolutely key when you think
about how banks and others in the scams ecosystem can
(07:24):
go about ensuring that others don't get scamms in the future.
Knowing the details of scams that are happy and is crucial,
and I only wish that social media companies did more
as well. We had shocking revelations just the other week
that Meta, the Facebook and Instagram owners are taking billions
of dollars in known scam ads, and it really just
(07:47):
shows how important the fight is for consumers and others
to play their part, and certainly banks and legitimate retailers
and we're all working hard to try to do what
we can and we'd love to see those social media
companies step up to the party.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yes, spot On couldn't agree more. Well, Simon Birmingham, the
Australian Banking Association CEO. Great to catch up with you,
Thanks so much for your time this morning.
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