Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now we just caught up with the nursing our Midwifree
(00:02):
Union's caf Hatcher to talk about the fact that the
code yellow has now been called across the Darwin and
Palmerston Hospital. Joining me on the line right now is
doctor John's Orbis, who is indeed from the Australian Medical Association.
He's the NT president. Good morning to you, doctors Orbis.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Morning Katie, morning for listeners. How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah? Really good? Good to have you on the show.
I mean, you and I have spoken on numerous occasions
in recent weeks about access block and about the overcrowding
within the emergency department there and more broadly across both
of our hospitals up here in the top end. But
doctors Orbis, they finally called a code yellow yesterday. Were
(00:43):
they bowing to that pressure?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I mean we've been sort of making these indications
for about a week now and going back, as I've
said on this show before, the hospital is full, remains ful,
is going to continue being full. The fact that we've
now called co yellow is welcomed and obviously we're very
happy that that's the direction they've taken. This is a
short term circuit breaker. Though, there's two things we need
to focus on. One is the now and one is
(01:08):
what's coming. We've got an underresourced hell system and we
really aren't getting our fair share of federal pie at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Well, this is the thing, right, Like the code yellow
obviously helps short term, but it really doesn't sort out
the issues that we've got with overcrowding, does it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
No, it kicks the can down the road. So it
gives us a little bit of capacity now just to
provide what we need to do immediately. But everything that
we're not doing routinely now is just a magnified problem
down the track. Every operation that gets canceled, every appointment
that gets canceled. You know, that doesn't the problem is
not fixed, and it's going to get worse between now
(01:43):
and when we do eventually catch up.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So in terms of the short term, what does it mean?
I mean you just sort of touched on and I
know Cather Hain said it as well, that it means
that things like elective surgeries get postponed, which isn't ideal
if you're on the wait list. However, it does mean
that then staff are able to sort of, you know,
deal with the level of patients I suppose that they've
got in the hospital right now.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, and most importantly, it's a whole of health declaration
that there is an immediate problem here at Royal Darwin.
And so that just makes sure that every lever, every button,
every system is pulling in the same direction. It helps
move patients back to community, back to regional centers where
if that's where they've come from. It helps to make
(02:26):
sure that the resources are being prioritized as best they
can be. Ultimately, the resources are still not enough to
deliver the care that we need to in the NT
in the long term, but for now it helps as
a circuit breaker.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Dot Di'sorbis Cathatcher had told us, you know these eighteen
cubicles that are double bunked at the moment, around thirty
six patients in those eighteen cubicles. But then when you
look at you know, at patients that need to go
up onto the wards. How is that sort of tracking
a law?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, So the reason the emergency department is so full
is for that exact reason the wards are full. They're
remainful the emergency department double bunking overcrowning. It's just the
symptom you know, the emergency Department is not the problem here.
We've got half the number of age air beds per
capita in Australia than any other jurisdiction, so are being
(03:17):
shortchanged massively there for what is a federal responsibility. We've
now had two federal governments promise fifty to sixty million
dollars for a new age care facility and we don't
even have a site, let alone the money. So you
know all the net effect of all of this. If
you want to see where the problem with the hospital is,
it's the fact that we can't get people out of hospital.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
So at the moment it is still a situation where
it's the age care beds that we are really relying on.
I mean, after you and I spoke last time, I
spoke to both the Health Minister and also Luke Gosling.
They assured our listeners that were in a situation where
the federal government and the Northern Territory government are talking
to each other to try and sort this issue out.
But it just can't happen quickly enough.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, it can't, and no government and this goes for
previous governments. Isn't just about this government. Can can put
their hands up and say, well, this is stuff we're
only discovering now. I mean, this has been our message
for a long time. Now, the back of the NAP
can match. We're looking at about four hundred million dollars
of systemic underfunding from a federal level. That's not change
(04:18):
for us. I mean, if you look at the hospitals,
we receive about thirty one percent of our hospital funding
comes from commonwealth sources, whereas the average around the country
is around thirty eight. Now you're talking one hundred and
fifty million, two hundred million or a state like New
South Wales that might not buy you much, but here
that's life changing doctors orbis.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
We also kas had just told us a short time
ago that you know, they need thirty two extra nurses
in the ED alone. You know, how are we tracking
staffing wise? From the AMA's perspective.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
We're always needing more doctors. We've been talking about recruitment
and retention up in the territorind I've spoken on your
show before about keeping doctors in the NT. We know
that we're still spending a lot of money on locum doctors,
doctors who are visiting and then flying back home. And
that helps provide a service. But in the long term,
we want to be able to keep territory born, territory trained.
(05:13):
People who come to the territory, love the territory, stay
in the territory, like myself. We want to make that
an attractive option and that's a huge component of providing
that healthcare system as well. We need our GPS, we
need our specialists, we need.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Doctors. Orbust if I got you there, you cut out
for a moment. Sorry, I've got your gescah, I can
hear you again. Now, Hey, what about when it comes
to that Acacia system, you know, the computer system or
the IT system that was being rolled out. How are
things tracking along with that?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, we've still got significant concerns with a KESHA. It
is a very very expensive project. It's getting more expensive.
And if we're saying we don't have enough health resources
for the health system as it is, then sinking more
money into an IT system that we're not happy with
is not a great idea. The last time Acasia within
Royal Dialen and Palmsten had to be switched off because
(06:07):
it was unsafe. Now, systems, you know, you have IT
systems that might have some hiccups and we might make
some changes. But I think if a system is in
your health you know, your hospitals, your emergency departments and
the clinicians have to switch it off because it's unsafe,
then you need to prove it's safe before you bring
it back. So I think we need a little bit
(06:27):
more than just reassurance from the government that things are
progressing and that you know, we're having meetings with stakeholders
and committees. I think the same clinicians who said this
system were unsafe until they think that the system is safe.
You know, we were not convinced. We need to see
that first.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Doctor John Zorbas, I'm going to be catching up, I
believe after ten o'clock. I think I've got the CEO
of NT Health, the chief executive of NT Health on
the show just before eleven o'clock. I mean, what is
the message from the IMA's perspective.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So we've got a good dialogue with the chief executive,
and I suppose you know, we've been calling for coch
yellow and solutions for overr capacity for a while. So
first I'd say we're all on the same team, and
I'm happy that management have made this decision. To make
this call. And this shouldn't be a political decision, right
this this should be a clinical decision. So glad it's
been made. Now let's look at how we're going to
(07:19):
fix this in the long term because that four hundred million, Yeah,
it's got to come. It's got to come yesterday. Really well,
let's look at that.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Honestly, we've been talking about it, you know, well before,
you know, from many years ago when we were catching
up with doctor Robert Parker. It's something that we've been
talking about for so long. I've had, you know, families
contact me on this show over the years saying Katie,
you know, I've got a loved one with dementia or
who is in hospital, who is an aged care patient
(07:50):
who shouldn't be in hospital, but there's nowhere for them
to go. It's so bloody, sad and difficult.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And it hits double for staff in health because we're
patients too. I've been a patient at RHORDA, and my
kids have been patients, my wife has been a patient.
You know, we live and breathe this, and so we're
not just the deliverers of the care. We receive the care.
And you know, this is something usually it's usually US
at war. This is something we all agree on. So
(08:17):
here in the territory labor, CLP, health not health. I
mean we're talking about systemic underfunding from a federal government
and these have been labor and liberal federal government. Is
it not about what flag you fly? This is just
about the simple maths anyway you cut this, we are
being disadvantaged on a national scale.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Spot on well, doctor John's orbis. I always appreciate your time.
I know you're busy, mate, so thank you very much
for having a chat with us today.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No, it's truth skaty. We appreciate it. Thanks,
Now we just caught up with the nursing our Midwifree
(00:02):
Union's caf Hatcher to talk about the fact that the
code yellow has now been called across the Darwin and
Palmerston Hospital. Joining me on the line right now is
doctor John's Orbis, who is indeed from the Australian Medical Association.
He's the NT president. Good morning to you, doctors Orbis.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Morning Katie, morning for listeners. How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Yeah? Really good? Good to have you on the show.
I mean, you and I have spoken on numerous occasions
in recent weeks about access block and about the overcrowding
within the emergency department there and more broadly across both
of our hospitals up here in the top end. But
doctors Orbis, they finally called a code yellow yesterday. Were
(00:43):
they bowing to that pressure?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, I mean we've been sort of making these indications
for about a week now and going back, as I've
said on this show before, the hospital is full, remains ful,
is going to continue being full. The fact that we've
now called co yellow is welcomed and obviously we're very
happy that that's the direction they've taken. This is a
short term circuit breaker. Though, there's two things we need
to focus on. One is the now and one is
(01:08):
what's coming. We've got an underresourced hell system and we
really aren't getting our fair share of federal pie at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Well, this is the thing, right, Like the code yellow
obviously helps short term, but it really doesn't sort out
the issues that we've got with overcrowding, does it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
No, it kicks the can down the road. So it
gives us a little bit of capacity now just to
provide what we need to do immediately. But everything that
we're not doing routinely now is just a magnified problem
down the track. Every operation that gets canceled, every appointment
that gets canceled. You know, that doesn't the problem is
not fixed, and it's going to get worse between now
(01:43):
and when we do eventually catch up.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So in terms of the short term, what does it mean?
I mean you just sort of touched on and I
know Cather Hain said it as well, that it means
that things like elective surgeries get postponed, which isn't ideal
if you're on the wait list. However, it does mean
that then staff are able to sort of, you know,
deal with the level of patients I suppose that they've
got in the hospital right now.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Yeah, and most importantly, it's a whole of health declaration
that there is an immediate problem here at Royal Darwin.
And so that just makes sure that every lever, every button,
every system is pulling in the same direction. It helps
move patients back to community, back to regional centers where
if that's where they've come from. It helps to make
(02:26):
sure that the resources are being prioritized as best they
can be. Ultimately, the resources are still not enough to
deliver the care that we need to in the NT
in the long term, but for now it helps as
a circuit breaker.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Dot Di'sorbis Cathatcher had told us, you know these eighteen
cubicles that are double bunked at the moment, around thirty
six patients in those eighteen cubicles. But then when you
look at you know, at patients that need to go
up onto the wards. How is that sort of tracking
a law?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah, So the reason the emergency department is so full
is for that exact reason the wards are full. They're
remainful the emergency department double bunking overcrowning. It's just the
symptom you know, the emergency Department is not the problem here.
We've got half the number of age air beds per
capita in Australia than any other jurisdiction, so are being
(03:17):
shortchanged massively there for what is a federal responsibility. We've
now had two federal governments promise fifty to sixty million
dollars for a new age care facility and we don't
even have a site, let alone the money. So you
know all the net effect of all of this. If
you want to see where the problem with the hospital is,
it's the fact that we can't get people out of hospital.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
So at the moment it is still a situation where
it's the age care beds that we are really relying on.
I mean, after you and I spoke last time, I
spoke to both the Health Minister and also Luke Gosling.
They assured our listeners that were in a situation where
the federal government and the Northern Territory government are talking
to each other to try and sort this issue out.
But it just can't happen quickly enough.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
No, it can't, and no government and this goes for
previous governments. Isn't just about this government. Can can put
their hands up and say, well, this is stuff we're
only discovering now. I mean, this has been our message
for a long time. Now, the back of the NAP
can match. We're looking at about four hundred million dollars
of systemic underfunding from a federal level. That's not change
(04:18):
for us. I mean, if you look at the hospitals,
we receive about thirty one percent of our hospital funding
comes from commonwealth sources, whereas the average around the country
is around thirty eight. Now you're talking one hundred and
fifty million, two hundred million or a state like New
South Wales that might not buy you much, but here
that's life changing doctors orbis.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
We also kas had just told us a short time
ago that you know, they need thirty two extra nurses
in the ED alone. You know, how are we tracking
staffing wise? From the AMA's perspective.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
We're always needing more doctors. We've been talking about recruitment
and retention up in the territorind I've spoken on your
show before about keeping doctors in the NT. We know
that we're still spending a lot of money on locum doctors,
doctors who are visiting and then flying back home. And
that helps provide a service. But in the long term,
we want to be able to keep territory born, territory trained.
(05:13):
People who come to the territory, love the territory, stay
in the territory, like myself. We want to make that
an attractive option and that's a huge component of providing
that healthcare system as well. We need our GPS, we
need our specialists, we need.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Doctors. Orbust if I got you there, you cut out
for a moment. Sorry, I've got your gescah, I can
hear you again. Now, Hey, what about when it comes
to that Acacia system, you know, the computer system or
the IT system that was being rolled out. How are
things tracking along with that?
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Yeah, we've still got significant concerns with a KESHA. It
is a very very expensive project. It's getting more expensive.
And if we're saying we don't have enough health resources
for the health system as it is, then sinking more
money into an IT system that we're not happy with
is not a great idea. The last time Acasia within
Royal Dialen and Palmsten had to be switched off because
(06:07):
it was unsafe. Now, systems, you know, you have IT
systems that might have some hiccups and we might make
some changes. But I think if a system is in
your health you know, your hospitals, your emergency departments and
the clinicians have to switch it off because it's unsafe,
then you need to prove it's safe before you bring
it back. So I think we need a little bit
(06:27):
more than just reassurance from the government that things are
progressing and that you know, we're having meetings with stakeholders
and committees. I think the same clinicians who said this
system were unsafe until they think that the system is safe.
You know, we were not convinced. We need to see
that first.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Doctor John Zorbas, I'm going to be catching up, I
believe after ten o'clock. I think I've got the CEO
of NT Health, the chief executive of NT Health on
the show just before eleven o'clock. I mean, what is
the message from the IMA's perspective.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
So we've got a good dialogue with the chief executive,
and I suppose you know, we've been calling for coch
yellow and solutions for overr capacity for a while. So
first I'd say we're all on the same team, and
I'm happy that management have made this decision. To make
this call. And this shouldn't be a political decision, right
this this should be a clinical decision. So glad it's
been made. Now let's look at how we're going to
(07:19):
fix this in the long term because that four hundred million, Yeah,
it's got to come. It's got to come yesterday. Really well,
let's look at that.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Honestly, we've been talking about it, you know, well before,
you know, from many years ago when we were catching
up with doctor Robert Parker. It's something that we've been
talking about for so long. I've had, you know, families
contact me on this show over the years saying Katie,
you know, I've got a loved one with dementia or
who is in hospital, who is an aged care patient
(07:50):
who shouldn't be in hospital, but there's nowhere for them
to go. It's so bloody, sad and difficult.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
And it hits double for staff in health because we're
patients too. I've been a patient at RHORDA, and my
kids have been patients, my wife has been a patient.
You know, we live and breathe this, and so we're
not just the deliverers of the care. We receive the care.
And you know, this is something usually it's usually US
at war. This is something we all agree on. So
(08:17):
here in the territory labor, CLP, health not health. I
mean we're talking about systemic underfunding from a federal government
and these have been labor and liberal federal government. Is
it not about what flag you fly? This is just
about the simple maths anyway you cut this, we are
being disadvantaged on a national scale.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Spot on well, doctor John's orbis. I always appreciate your time.
I know you're busy, mate, so thank you very much
for having a chat with us today.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
No, it's truth skaty. We appreciate it. Thanks,
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