Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday we spoke to two mums concerned about changes when
it comes to maternity services that are being delivered here
in the Northern Territory. Now we also saw the letter
advising that Midwiffery Group Practice on call services have been
stopped while the reviews carried out to ensure that the
model is sustainable. The letter states that anti natal and
(00:22):
post natal appointments are going to be conducted by the
Maternity Group Practice team during business hours, that labor and
birth care will be provided by midwives and doctors in
the delivery suite, which will also handle after hours calls
to midwives. Now, the letter goes on to say that
planned home births will be supported, but at times support
(00:43):
could be unavailable due to staffing limitations. Now joining us
on the line is the Nursing and Midwiffrey Federation's NTI Secretary,
Cath Hatcha Good morning to you, Cath.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to the listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Good to have you on the show. Has What do
you know of this situation? Have you seen this letter?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I have seen the letter and the Midwifree Group Practice
midwives didn't realize that this letter was being sent to
consumers late last week and they were sent it by
consumers in the Darwin region and they were not consulted
(01:26):
about it, and they know that they're going to Four
out of the five teams are not going to do
on call, which is a real shame. But the reason
why they're not undertaking the on call is due to
staff shortages in the team.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So cath hang on. So those midwives that actually you
know that they are the ones that operate under the
midwifree group practice, they didn't know this was happening. No
you're joking. No, No, they must be feeling bloody ordinary,
you know then when they found out that letter had
(02:05):
gone out, like for a whole raft of reasons. But
you know, when I think of midwives and nurses, like
they genuinely care about their patients, and they genuinely care
about those mums, so I reckon they'd be pretty upset.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yes, definitely lack of communications. So the team that is
still going to be on call is the home birth
team or they call it the Orange team, and those
three midwives that managed that team currently are fully staff,
so they'll still be able to as long as they're
(02:40):
not over their hours, you know, by extreme circumstances, they'll
still be able to care and hopefully women still be
able to have their babies at home, which is where
they wish to The other teams are shorter staff and
that they're hopefully this will be an interim measure while
(03:02):
they get some more midwives into the teams.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So, Kathy, is that the issue here? Is it just
a staffing issue?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It is at the moment, but the managers of the
midw three group practice do want to change and restructure
the whole groups. They do want to put another midwife
into the team, so instead of having three midwives per team,
they're having four. But they do want to change the
(03:34):
level of classification, so currently there should be three nurse four.
A nurse four is a very qualified, experienced midwife who
is able to work independently but also collaboratively with the
other team and the doctors if necessary, throughout that woman's
(03:56):
journey through her pregnancy, labor, birth and host natal. Currently
that's how it is at the moment. They want to
change it to four midwives with one being a nurse
for and that next one a nurse three, next one
a nurse two and a new graduate, but not a
(04:16):
new graduate in the home birth team. But that takes
a lot of resources to be able to for that
nurse for to be able to be there to educate,
support not just the nurse three two and two, but
the new graduate as well. They don't mind the new
(04:38):
graduates being comeing to the midw three group practice. That
happens in Alice Springs as well, but they're in Alice Springs.
They have about six to eight midwives with one nurse
graduate to support through that twelve months.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Kas, is this as I mean, are these staffing issues.
Is it a result of, you know, additional pressure following
the closure of the Darwin Private Hospital.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, this has been on the table, this restructure for
a number of months, well before the closure of the
maternity service at the Darwin Private So the Darwin Private
women who now coming through Royal Darwin should be able
to still continue to see their obstetrician through their pregnancy
(05:27):
and be able to come into delivery suite to labor
and have their birth with their obstetrician.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Kas. We are being told though, or we are certainly
hearing that some private obs are sort of questioning their
futures in the territory, you know, as a result of
the situation that we're currently in, Like, are you hearing
much of that?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I have heard rumors. I don't know whether that's actual
facts or not, but it would be a great shame
if the two obstetricians don't continue the services and therefore
there's no option with private care in the Darwin region.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, I will also point out, you know, I've certainly
not had that confirm. That is just something that we'd
sort of, you know, been told kas. You know, what
do you think needs to happen here? Is it fair
enough that a restructure gets underway? What do you think
needs to happen?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The midwives and us as the union think the restructure
is a load of shite that it shouldn't happen. Yes,
maybe include another midwife in each team to begin, so
there would be four midwives per team and then they
can take on more caseload per team, so therefore more
(06:46):
women be able to access the continuity of care model.
And yes, if the midwife is a junior midwife and
is not up to the skill to be as a
nurse for then in the interim she should be paid
at that level, whether it be nurse two or three.
And once she gets to that skilled level of being
(07:08):
a very caseload model experience midwives. She should then be
a nurse for position. The restructure is not going to
benefit the midwives or the women that it's going to
make it worse. And I think Minister Edgington has a
(07:33):
case here because the statistics of mortality and morbidity in
the territory is much worse compared to other states in
the Australia. So we have a.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
We've got to look after them. It's like a duty
of care to make sure.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
What I was thinking, we have a duty of care.
The government, the managers at will dah In Hospital have
a duty of care to be able to provide the
best care possible to reduce these rates.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Kath. We also yesterday we spoke to one of the
mums who made us aware of this situation. But then
we had another mum call in who actually lives in
a remote community. She's out near the Daily River and
she's really worried about these changes and what it's going
to mean, you know for somebody like her, who's who's
going to be well, who probably will have to come
and give birth in Darwin, and he's coming to Darwin
(08:33):
for appointments, et cetera. But you know, not being able
to get that, you know, not being able to get
that after ours care, et cetera as well, like it's
you know that is concerning, right it is.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And so the midwives would be beyond call during say
eight am to eight pm so as a example, and
then after that they will have their phones diverted to
the delay suite. So if they ring their midwives phone
after hours, at the moment, it will go to delivery
(09:07):
suite and a midwife will be able to guide that
mother to what the next steps would be. But hopefully
this is an interim. The managers at the hospital need
to get more staff. They need to make them permanent.
They need to stop these contracts. They need to stop
the high sorry the HDA which is increasing there from
(09:31):
a nurse too to a nurse FO. They need to
make them permanent. There's only five out of the fifteen
that are permanent in those positions, and it's they're not
being advertising correctly for midwives. So midwives are not wanting
to stay because they can't buy a house if they
(09:53):
haven't got a permanent contract. All that sort of rolls
on into their own personal life. And it's completely wrong.
Whereas the Alice Springs model, and I believe the ghost
model that is currently being looked to set up is
going to be all nursed for. And why is this
(10:15):
change is going to happen here in Royal Darwin. I
believe they tell me it's not, but I believe it's
a cough cuffing exercise, which is completely wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I really hope not. I really hope not, cath because
you know, women, families deserve the right to be able
to you know, to go to the hospital, to have
that service, you know, to have those midwives there. And
I know that the midwives absolutely want to be able
to deliver that service to the best of their ability
as well. But as you touched on earlier, you know,
(10:49):
the scary or not scary, but the really sad part
is that we do have, you know, high mortality rates
here in the Northern Territory. Like I myself have friends
who've lost babies, you know, for different reasons, you know,
and we've just got to make sure that we are
(11:13):
not cutting costs at the risk to Northern Territory families.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Absolutely, yep. And the women out there in the Darwin
and the Greater area. They need to right to Minister
Edginton and say this should not be happening. There should
also be increased numbers berthing in the birth center. So
since some changes were made about seven or eight years ago,
(11:39):
the rates of birthing in the birth center have completely plummeted.
And you know, the women of Darwin region really pushed
for that to the last twenty five years for a
birth center to be builtan built. The numbers of rates
of birthing per year were increasing and the midw free
(12:01):
group practice at the time were a really well run service.
And then they did some changes which were for the
wrong which we tried to stop, and the services to
have babies in the birth center decreased plummeted greatly. So
(12:22):
if that increased, the numbers in birthing in the birth
center would decrease the pressure on delivery suite on the
sixth floor and women wouldn't be perhaps having their labors
in the corridors or in the maternity ward, they would
be having the care in a delivery room, in a
(12:43):
birthing room.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Katz. We have just had a couple of moms getting contact.
Tessa's been in contact and said that one of the midwile. Sorry,
one of the obstetricians I think her name is Aliah
the Muri is finishing at the end of the year
and isn't taking on new patients. Another person has said
(13:06):
that Jenny Mitchell's retirement's been well known and acknowledged by
NT Health as somebody else's message through and said, Katie,
you can no longer make appointments with private obs at
this point in time, like this is this is actually
real worry.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It is worry, and I feel sorry for the women
of Darwin who won a private obstetrician for their experience
as being a mother. Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Oh well, look, we'll continue this discussion CAV hopefully going
to have the Department of Health on the show tomorrow,
so please let us know if there's anything else we
should be aware of. I always appreciate your time. Thank
you very much for joining me on the show.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yep, thank you, Katie, thank you
Yesterday we spoke to two mums concerned about changes when
it comes to maternity services that are being delivered here
in the Northern Territory. Now we also saw the letter
advising that Midwiffery Group Practice on call services have been
stopped while the reviews carried out to ensure that the
model is sustainable. The letter states that anti natal and
(00:22):
post natal appointments are going to be conducted by the
Maternity Group Practice team during business hours, that labor and
birth care will be provided by midwives and doctors in
the delivery suite, which will also handle after hours calls
to midwives. Now, the letter goes on to say that
planned home births will be supported, but at times support
(00:43):
could be unavailable due to staffing limitations. Now joining us
on the line is the Nursing and Midwiffrey Federation's NTI Secretary,
Cath Hatcha Good morning to you, Cath.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to the listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Good to have you on the show. Has What do
you know of this situation? Have you seen this letter?
Speaker 2 (01:06):
I have seen the letter and the Midwifree Group Practice
midwives didn't realize that this letter was being sent to
consumers late last week and they were sent it by
consumers in the Darwin region and they were not consulted
(01:26):
about it, and they know that they're going to Four
out of the five teams are not going to do
on call, which is a real shame. But the reason
why they're not undertaking the on call is due to
staff shortages in the team.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So cath hang on. So those midwives that actually you
know that they are the ones that operate under the
midwifree group practice, they didn't know this was happening. No
you're joking. No, No, they must be feeling bloody ordinary,
you know then when they found out that letter had
(02:05):
gone out, like for a whole raft of reasons. But
you know, when I think of midwives and nurses, like
they genuinely care about their patients, and they genuinely care
about those mums, so I reckon they'd be pretty upset.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yes, definitely lack of communications. So the team that is
still going to be on call is the home birth
team or they call it the Orange team, and those
three midwives that managed that team currently are fully staff,
so they'll still be able to as long as they're
(02:40):
not over their hours, you know, by extreme circumstances, they'll
still be able to care and hopefully women still be
able to have their babies at home, which is where
they wish to The other teams are shorter staff and
that they're hopefully this will be an interim measure while
(03:02):
they get some more midwives into the teams.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
So, Kathy, is that the issue here? Is it just
a staffing issue?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
It is at the moment, but the managers of the
midw three group practice do want to change and restructure
the whole groups. They do want to put another midwife
into the team, so instead of having three midwives per team,
they're having four. But they do want to change the
(03:34):
level of classification, so currently there should be three nurse four.
A nurse four is a very qualified, experienced midwife who
is able to work independently but also collaboratively with the
other team and the doctors if necessary, throughout that woman's
(03:56):
journey through her pregnancy, labor, birth and host natal. Currently
that's how it is at the moment. They want to
change it to four midwives with one being a nurse
for and that next one a nurse three, next one
a nurse two and a new graduate, but not a
(04:16):
new graduate in the home birth team. But that takes
a lot of resources to be able to for that
nurse for to be able to be there to educate,
support not just the nurse three two and two, but
the new graduate as well. They don't mind the new
(04:38):
graduates being comeing to the midw three group practice. That
happens in Alice Springs as well, but they're in Alice Springs.
They have about six to eight midwives with one nurse
graduate to support through that twelve months.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Kas, is this as I mean, are these staffing issues.
Is it a result of, you know, additional pressure following
the closure of the Darwin Private Hospital.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
No, this has been on the table, this restructure for
a number of months, well before the closure of the
maternity service at the Darwin Private So the Darwin Private
women who now coming through Royal Darwin should be able
to still continue to see their obstetrician through their pregnancy
(05:27):
and be able to come into delivery suite to labor
and have their birth with their obstetrician.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Kas. We are being told though, or we are certainly
hearing that some private obs are sort of questioning their
futures in the territory, you know, as a result of
the situation that we're currently in, Like, are you hearing
much of that?
Speaker 2 (05:48):
I have heard rumors. I don't know whether that's actual
facts or not, but it would be a great shame
if the two obstetricians don't continue the services and therefore
there's no option with private care in the Darwin region.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah, I will also point out, you know, I've certainly
not had that confirm. That is just something that we'd
sort of, you know, been told kas. You know, what
do you think needs to happen here? Is it fair
enough that a restructure gets underway? What do you think
needs to happen?
Speaker 2 (06:23):
The midwives and us as the union think the restructure
is a load of shite that it shouldn't happen. Yes,
maybe include another midwife in each team to begin, so
there would be four midwives per team and then they
can take on more caseload per team, so therefore more
(06:46):
women be able to access the continuity of care model.
And yes, if the midwife is a junior midwife and
is not up to the skill to be as a
nurse for then in the interim she should be paid
at that level, whether it be nurse two or three.
And once she gets to that skilled level of being
(07:08):
a very caseload model experience midwives. She should then be
a nurse for position. The restructure is not going to
benefit the midwives or the women that it's going to
make it worse. And I think Minister Edgington has a
(07:33):
case here because the statistics of mortality and morbidity in
the territory is much worse compared to other states in
the Australia. So we have a.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
We've got to look after them. It's like a duty
of care to make sure.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
What I was thinking, we have a duty of care.
The government, the managers at will dah In Hospital have
a duty of care to be able to provide the
best care possible to reduce these rates.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Kath. We also yesterday we spoke to one of the
mums who made us aware of this situation. But then
we had another mum call in who actually lives in
a remote community. She's out near the Daily River and
she's really worried about these changes and what it's going
to mean, you know for somebody like her, who's who's
going to be well, who probably will have to come
and give birth in Darwin, and he's coming to Darwin
(08:33):
for appointments, et cetera. But you know, not being able
to get that, you know, not being able to get
that after ours care, et cetera as well, like it's
you know that is concerning, right it is.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
And so the midwives would be beyond call during say
eight am to eight pm so as a example, and
then after that they will have their phones diverted to
the delay suite. So if they ring their midwives phone
after hours, at the moment, it will go to delivery
(09:07):
suite and a midwife will be able to guide that
mother to what the next steps would be. But hopefully
this is an interim. The managers at the hospital need
to get more staff. They need to make them permanent.
They need to stop these contracts. They need to stop
the high sorry the HDA which is increasing there from
(09:31):
a nurse too to a nurse FO. They need to
make them permanent. There's only five out of the fifteen
that are permanent in those positions, and it's they're not
being advertising correctly for midwives. So midwives are not wanting
to stay because they can't buy a house if they
(09:53):
haven't got a permanent contract. All that sort of rolls
on into their own personal life. And it's completely wrong.
Whereas the Alice Springs model, and I believe the ghost
model that is currently being looked to set up is
going to be all nursed for. And why is this
(10:15):
change is going to happen here in Royal Darwin. I
believe they tell me it's not, but I believe it's
a cough cuffing exercise, which is completely wrong.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I really hope not. I really hope not, cath because
you know, women, families deserve the right to be able
to you know, to go to the hospital, to have
that service, you know, to have those midwives there. And
I know that the midwives absolutely want to be able
to deliver that service to the best of their ability
as well. But as you touched on earlier, you know,
(10:49):
the scary or not scary, but the really sad part
is that we do have, you know, high mortality rates
here in the Northern Territory. Like I myself have friends
who've lost babies, you know, for different reasons, you know,
and we've just got to make sure that we are
(11:13):
not cutting costs at the risk to Northern Territory families.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Absolutely, yep. And the women out there in the Darwin
and the Greater area. They need to right to Minister
Edginton and say this should not be happening. There should
also be increased numbers berthing in the birth center. So
since some changes were made about seven or eight years ago,
(11:39):
the rates of birthing in the birth center have completely plummeted.
And you know, the women of Darwin region really pushed
for that to the last twenty five years for a
birth center to be builtan built. The numbers of rates
of birthing per year were increasing and the midw free
(12:01):
group practice at the time were a really well run service.
And then they did some changes which were for the
wrong which we tried to stop, and the services to
have babies in the birth center decreased plummeted greatly. So
(12:22):
if that increased, the numbers in birthing in the birth
center would decrease the pressure on delivery suite on the
sixth floor and women wouldn't be perhaps having their labors
in the corridors or in the maternity ward, they would
be having the care in a delivery room, in a
(12:43):
birthing room.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Katz. We have just had a couple of moms getting contact.
Tessa's been in contact and said that one of the midwile. Sorry,
one of the obstetricians I think her name is Aliah
the Muri is finishing at the end of the year
and isn't taking on new patients. Another person has said
(13:06):
that Jenny Mitchell's retirement's been well known and acknowledged by
NT Health as somebody else's message through and said, Katie,
you can no longer make appointments with private obs at
this point in time, like this is this is actually
real worry.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It is worry, and I feel sorry for the women
of Darwin who won a private obstetrician for their experience
as being a mother. Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Oh well, look, we'll continue this discussion CAV hopefully going
to have the Department of Health on the show tomorrow,
so please let us know if there's anything else we
should be aware of. I always appreciate your time. Thank
you very much for joining me on the show.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yep, thank you, Katie, thank you
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