Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
New data has been released showing the numbers of people
visiting the emergency department in the Northern Territory and the
length of time they're waiting is at a ten year high.
The data was released yesterday by the Australian Institute of
Health and Welfare and showed there were more than one
hundred and eighty one thousand presentations in the twenty twenty
(00:21):
two to twenty three financial year. It's up from one
hundred and seventy one thousand the previous year and we've
got the highest rate of emergency presentations in the country.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Now, the numbers probably aren't a.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Huge surprise to anyone who sat in the waiting room
at emergency here in the Northern Territory, our hospitals and
our staff for absolutely flat out. Now joining me on
the line to talk more about this is Kath Hatcher,
the Secretary of the Australian Nursing and Midway Free Federation
here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Good morning to you, Kath, Oh, Good morning Katie Kath.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This data it shows we've got the highest rate of
emergency presentations per capita in the country and the number
of people visiting the emergency department and the length of
time they're waitings at a ten year high, kath Are
you surprised by the numbers?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
No, I'm not really Katie. Well yes and no. But
if you look at the rest of Australia, all the
other states have a three percent population of our first
nation's people, we have nearly thirty one percent occupying the
northern territory of our Aboriginal and Torrestrade Islander people. So
(01:34):
because they have the highest medical needs, they have the
highest incidences of rheumatic heart, renal disease, etc. So I'm
not surprised that we are at the top of that
number crunching.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And do you reckon that's the only reason, Cather? Are
there other contributing factors? I mean, I know you and
I have spoken on numerous occasions about code yellows and
you know not having enough beds.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I guess in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, yes, that would be compacting it too. So when
they closed the super clinic out at Palmerston and opened
up the Palmiston Hospital, I think that was number one.
They shouldn't have done that, And now we know that
it's reopened again a month or so ago.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So what was that the just repeat that for me. Calinic.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, so the superclinic was sort of shut down after
Palmerston Hospital was opened up and then everyone was going
to the emergency department at the Palmerston Hospital and the
superclinic was, you know, not having its opening extra hours
(02:52):
and evenings and weekends and things, so that that would
have had an impact of more present days to the
Wild Darwin Palmerston Hospital.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And so at this point in time, I mean, we
know that like some of these numbers with the data released,
it's showing that more than one hundred and eighty one
thousand presentations in twenty twenty two to twenty.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Three financial year.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's up from one hundred and seventy one thousand the
previous year.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
What do you think the reason for that is.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I wouldn't like to speculate, but I would say that, well,
the presentations itself, I guess it's all to do with GPS,
and perhaps they're increasing of their fees and the gap
between Medicare and what the GPS are asking for that
(03:46):
could have an impact and people just can't find that
money to get a GP visit. They just can't pay
that gap fee, so they're going to the hospitals where
it's free. That's why there's been a big call for
the federal government to get some urgent care centers around Australia.
(04:09):
And now we've got two up and running in the territory,
one in Darwin, one in Alice Springs. The one in
Darwin is from the super Clinic again and it's been
up and running I believe about six or eight weeks now,
but they haven't seen an impact on the emergency departments
within Royal Darwin Palmerston yet. The executive director of Nursing
(04:33):
was telling me about three four weeks ago that they
haven't seen any benefit of that superclinic reopening and the
one in Alice Springs they have only just opened it,
so there hasn't been any statistics there of numbers going
through yet.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I guess it is those very early days. But
kas just on the GPS, I mean, would you support
co payments that would fix that gap fee issue? Is
that something that would make a difference. Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Absolutely, I think Medicare need to up the amount of
money that the GPS can get on rebate on seeing
patients in their surgeries, but also the number of presentations.
Sometimes it's just needing to be educated and you know,
(05:23):
don't go to emergency apartment just for the little things,
even though the little things could grow into big things.
But you know, trying to get a GP appointment can
be very hard in some practices. Some people don't want
to try it because they know they're going to have
to pay that gap and they can't afford it. But
(05:46):
other things are too that we do have the higher
percentage of average Norn Torrestrada Island of people in the territory,
and you know their education is you know, go to
the hospital if they've got problems, even if it might
be very minute that GP can be able to treat.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So do you reckon I mean, does there need to
be some more work with our Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander health providers to make sure that there is that
educative approach where people do know that unless there's a
serious issue, you really don't need to be presenting to emergency.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Perhaps, but there's also facilities like Donela Dilber, and I
know that they're really under the pump as well. And
I do know that the first nations people do go
to Dineala Dilber and other health care Aboriginal healthcare centers
around the territory, but they are short staffed and with
(06:45):
doctors and nurses as well, and potentially they may not
have the capacity to see as many people per day
as per usual because of their shortness of staff. But
also that impacts from the other Department of Health hospitals
in the territory as well, with more presentations to the
(07:06):
emergency departments.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
At the moment, what a nurse is saying to you
across the board, because obviously this data is all about
the emergency presentations, but what are our nurses saying to
you across the board?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I mean, have we got enough of them?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
How are our staffing levels going, and how are things
going in our major hospitals.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
There's lots of improvement that can happen right across the
territory and Australia as well. We need more doctors, we
need more nurses, we need to have more beds. But
in the saying that, we probably still got about sixty
to seventy patients who really need to be in an
age care or disability center and not in an acute
(07:49):
bed within world Ear and Palmerston Hospitals or even Alice
Springs hospitals either. So you know, if we know that
the federal government have given the Northern Territory government money
to build a sixty bed age care facility, but that's
still in the planning works, that hasn't had any soil
(08:11):
removal and diggings started yet, and that's going to be
three or four years away. So what's going to happen
in the meantime, We're still going to have an excess
of patients who are taking up an acute bed because
they can't cope, the family can't cope of looking after
them at home and they need to be rightly so
(08:35):
looked after, and that at the moment, that's an acute
bed within the hospital in the territory, So that's one thing.
And the waiting times would also impact in the emergency
department because there are no beds in the rest of
the hospital, so they're banked up in the emergency departments
wherever they can place them, and they're double bunking because
(08:59):
that's the way they need to at the moment to
be able to keep eyes on people, make sure that
they're okay and they're getting treated. Even though you know,
the conflict of interest and communication problem there and work,
health and safety and all of that. H real problem
with double bunking and instead of a nurse having four patients,
(09:21):
she potentially has eight patients to look after. And potentially
a lot of the staff could be agency nurses because
they are short staff and they're trying to get and
recruit to be permanent within the hospitals. But the nurses
are really wanting that work life balance, so therefore some
(09:42):
of them have gone across the agency and they might
do work one month have one month off, so to speak.
So you can't get that within the Department of Health
contract Kats.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You and I've spoken on a lot of occasions about
staffing levels and you've just touched on it then with
our nurses, like how are we looking at the moment
at the likes of Royal Dale and Hospital and our
Alice Springs Hospital across the board when it comes to
those those staffing levels, are we up to where we
need to be or are we behind?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
We're way behind. And the latest statistics I got, we're
about six weeks ago and there's about four hundred and
twenty full time equivalent shortage within right across the territory
and that's just not the hospitals that acute care rule,
and not everyone wants to work full time, so there's more,
(10:35):
you know, bodies needed to fulfill four hundred and twenty
full time equivalents of staff, and that's just nursing and midwifree.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Four hundred and twenty full time equivalent That is massive, Cass.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And I would absolutely it's massive, And I would say
that number has got worse since then because you know
that coming into the wet season, people might have contracts
right up until the week before Christmas. They want to
go home into state or back overseas for Christmas to
be with their families, or they just don't like our
wet season and they want to go home for a
(11:10):
few months and they'll come back early next year and
take another contract up. So it is going to get worse.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Is that like the worst we've seen it in terms
of those staffing levels? Because you and I have spoken
again a lot about those staffing levels.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
You've never given me a number that high. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I think because the Department of Health haven't given me
the full quota before. I'm statistic. So it is shocking
and it is worse than perhaps two years ago in
the heart of COVID, and it's definitely worse. Before COVID,
most of the hospitals and areas were sitting on around
(11:52):
the five to fifteen percent vacancy rates, but now they're
sitting up anywhere from twenty five to eighty percent vacancy rates.
Majority of those vacancy rates are fulfilled with agency, but
not one hundred percent. They're probably still looking at most
areas around the five to twenty five percent vacancy even
(12:16):
though they've got permanent and agency staff in those areas.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
KAS what is your message, you know, to the government
today when you look at those staffing levels, when you
look at the emergency wait times, when you look at
some of the issues that we're experiencing across the board
in the health in the in the health sector, I think.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
We need to think outside the box. And some of
the areas are looking at fly in, flyout type agreements
with nurses. They might not fly in fly out per se,
but you know, work one month, have one month off,
that kind of scenario. Nurses really want their work life balance.
(12:58):
I think they that the manager right across the territory
need to basically give what the staff want and if
they don't give it to then they're going to leave.
So they're much better off accommodating what the staff needs are,
whether it's job sharing, two weeks on, two weeks off,
kind of working relationship, anything like that to keep the staff,
(13:22):
because if they don't accommodate, and they said no, we
can't accommodate that, then they will leave. They will go
elsewhere within the territory or into state to get what
they want. And it's not just the territory, it's like this,
it's the whole of Australia. But because we're a smaller
(13:43):
territory on a vast land and it's really hard to
get services and access the services we really need to know,
bend down the knee, so to speak, and give the
nurses and midwives what they want.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, Kath Hatcher, I always appreciate your time, and I
know that our nurses and midwives well they do an
absolutely phenomenal job, as all of our healthcare workers do.
But we appreciate the work that they do and we
appreciate your time today.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
You're very welcome, Katie, anytime.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Thank you
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
New data has been released showing the numbers of people
visiting the emergency department in the Northern Territory and the
length of time they're waiting is at a ten year high.
The data was released yesterday by the Australian Institute of
Health and Welfare and showed there were more than one
hundred and eighty one thousand presentations in the twenty twenty
(00:21):
two to twenty three financial year. It's up from one
hundred and seventy one thousand the previous year and we've
got the highest rate of emergency presentations in the country.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Now, the numbers probably aren't a.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Huge surprise to anyone who sat in the waiting room
at emergency here in the Northern Territory, our hospitals and
our staff for absolutely flat out. Now joining me on
the line to talk more about this is Kath Hatcher,
the Secretary of the Australian Nursing and Midway Free Federation
here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Good morning to you, Kath, Oh, Good morning Katie Kath.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
This data it shows we've got the highest rate of
emergency presentations per capita in the country and the number
of people visiting the emergency department and the length of
time they're waitings at a ten year high, kath Are
you surprised by the numbers?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
No, I'm not really Katie. Well yes and no. But
if you look at the rest of Australia, all the
other states have a three percent population of our first
nation's people, we have nearly thirty one percent occupying the
northern territory of our Aboriginal and Torrestrade Islander people. So
(01:34):
because they have the highest medical needs, they have the
highest incidences of rheumatic heart, renal disease, etc. So I'm
not surprised that we are at the top of that
number crunching.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
And do you reckon that's the only reason, Cather? Are
there other contributing factors? I mean, I know you and
I have spoken on numerous occasions about code yellows and
you know not having enough beds.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
I guess in a lot of cases.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Well, yes, that would be compacting it too. So when
they closed the super clinic out at Palmerston and opened
up the Palmiston Hospital, I think that was number one.
They shouldn't have done that, And now we know that
it's reopened again a month or so ago.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
So what was that the just repeat that for me. Calinic.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, so the superclinic was sort of shut down after
Palmerston Hospital was opened up and then everyone was going
to the emergency department at the Palmerston Hospital and the
superclinic was, you know, not having its opening extra hours
(02:52):
and evenings and weekends and things, so that that would
have had an impact of more present days to the
Wild Darwin Palmerston Hospital.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And so at this point in time, I mean, we
know that like some of these numbers with the data released,
it's showing that more than one hundred and eighty one
thousand presentations in twenty twenty two to twenty.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Three financial year.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's up from one hundred and seventy one thousand the
previous year.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
What do you think the reason for that is.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
I wouldn't like to speculate, but I would say that, well,
the presentations itself, I guess it's all to do with GPS,
and perhaps they're increasing of their fees and the gap
between Medicare and what the GPS are asking for that
(03:46):
could have an impact and people just can't find that
money to get a GP visit. They just can't pay
that gap fee, so they're going to the hospitals where
it's free. That's why there's been a big call for
the federal government to get some urgent care centers around Australia.
(04:09):
And now we've got two up and running in the territory,
one in Darwin, one in Alice Springs. The one in
Darwin is from the super Clinic again and it's been
up and running I believe about six or eight weeks now,
but they haven't seen an impact on the emergency departments
within Royal Darwin Palmerston yet. The executive director of Nursing
(04:33):
was telling me about three four weeks ago that they
haven't seen any benefit of that superclinic reopening and the
one in Alice Springs they have only just opened it,
so there hasn't been any statistics there of numbers going
through yet.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I guess it is those very early days. But
kas just on the GPS, I mean, would you support
co payments that would fix that gap fee issue? Is
that something that would make a difference. Oh?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Absolutely, I think Medicare need to up the amount of
money that the GPS can get on rebate on seeing
patients in their surgeries, but also the number of presentations.
Sometimes it's just needing to be educated and you know,
(05:23):
don't go to emergency apartment just for the little things,
even though the little things could grow into big things.
But you know, trying to get a GP appointment can
be very hard in some practices. Some people don't want
to try it because they know they're going to have
to pay that gap and they can't afford it. But
(05:46):
other things are too that we do have the higher
percentage of average Norn Torrestrada Island of people in the territory,
and you know their education is you know, go to
the hospital if they've got problems, even if it might
be very minute that GP can be able to treat.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
So do you reckon I mean, does there need to
be some more work with our Aboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander health providers to make sure that there is that
educative approach where people do know that unless there's a
serious issue, you really don't need to be presenting to emergency.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Perhaps, but there's also facilities like Donela Dilber, and I
know that they're really under the pump as well. And
I do know that the first nations people do go
to Dineala Dilber and other health care Aboriginal healthcare centers
around the territory, but they are short staffed and with
(06:45):
doctors and nurses as well, and potentially they may not
have the capacity to see as many people per day
as per usual because of their shortness of staff. But
also that impacts from the other Department of Health hospitals
in the territory as well, with more presentations to the
(07:06):
emergency departments.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
At the moment, what a nurse is saying to you
across the board, because obviously this data is all about
the emergency presentations, but what are our nurses saying to
you across the board?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I mean, have we got enough of them?
Speaker 2 (07:20):
How are our staffing levels going, and how are things
going in our major hospitals.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
There's lots of improvement that can happen right across the
territory and Australia as well. We need more doctors, we
need more nurses, we need to have more beds. But
in the saying that, we probably still got about sixty
to seventy patients who really need to be in an
age care or disability center and not in an acute
(07:49):
bed within world Ear and Palmerston Hospitals or even Alice
Springs hospitals either. So you know, if we know that
the federal government have given the Northern Territory government money
to build a sixty bed age care facility, but that's
still in the planning works, that hasn't had any soil
(08:11):
removal and diggings started yet, and that's going to be
three or four years away. So what's going to happen
in the meantime, We're still going to have an excess
of patients who are taking up an acute bed because
they can't cope, the family can't cope of looking after
them at home and they need to be rightly so
(08:35):
looked after, and that at the moment, that's an acute
bed within the hospital in the territory, So that's one thing.
And the waiting times would also impact in the emergency
department because there are no beds in the rest of
the hospital, so they're banked up in the emergency departments
wherever they can place them, and they're double bunking because
(08:59):
that's the way they need to at the moment to
be able to keep eyes on people, make sure that
they're okay and they're getting treated. Even though you know,
the conflict of interest and communication problem there and work,
health and safety and all of that. H real problem
with double bunking and instead of a nurse having four patients,
(09:21):
she potentially has eight patients to look after. And potentially
a lot of the staff could be agency nurses because
they are short staff and they're trying to get and
recruit to be permanent within the hospitals. But the nurses
are really wanting that work life balance, so therefore some
(09:42):
of them have gone across the agency and they might
do work one month have one month off, so to speak.
So you can't get that within the Department of Health
contract Kats.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
You and I've spoken on a lot of occasions about
staffing levels and you've just touched on it then with
our nurses, like how are we looking at the moment
at the likes of Royal Dale and Hospital and our
Alice Springs Hospital across the board when it comes to
those those staffing levels, are we up to where we
need to be or are we behind?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
We're way behind. And the latest statistics I got, we're
about six weeks ago and there's about four hundred and
twenty full time equivalent shortage within right across the territory
and that's just not the hospitals that acute care rule,
and not everyone wants to work full time, so there's more,
(10:35):
you know, bodies needed to fulfill four hundred and twenty
full time equivalents of staff, and that's just nursing and midwifree.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Four hundred and twenty full time equivalent That is massive, Cass.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And I would absolutely it's massive, And I would say
that number has got worse since then because you know
that coming into the wet season, people might have contracts
right up until the week before Christmas. They want to
go home into state or back overseas for Christmas to
be with their families, or they just don't like our
wet season and they want to go home for a
(11:10):
few months and they'll come back early next year and
take another contract up. So it is going to get worse.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Is that like the worst we've seen it in terms
of those staffing levels? Because you and I have spoken
again a lot about those staffing levels.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
You've never given me a number that high. I don't think.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
I think because the Department of Health haven't given me
the full quota before. I'm statistic. So it is shocking
and it is worse than perhaps two years ago in
the heart of COVID, and it's definitely worse. Before COVID,
most of the hospitals and areas were sitting on around
(11:52):
the five to fifteen percent vacancy rates, but now they're
sitting up anywhere from twenty five to eighty percent vacancy rates.
Majority of those vacancy rates are fulfilled with agency, but
not one hundred percent. They're probably still looking at most
areas around the five to twenty five percent vacancy even
(12:16):
though they've got permanent and agency staff in those areas.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
KAS what is your message, you know, to the government
today when you look at those staffing levels, when you
look at the emergency wait times, when you look at
some of the issues that we're experiencing across the board
in the health in the in the health sector, I think.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
We need to think outside the box. And some of
the areas are looking at fly in, flyout type agreements
with nurses. They might not fly in fly out per se,
but you know, work one month, have one month off,
that kind of scenario. Nurses really want their work life balance.
(12:58):
I think they that the manager right across the territory
need to basically give what the staff want and if
they don't give it to then they're going to leave.
So they're much better off accommodating what the staff needs are,
whether it's job sharing, two weeks on, two weeks off,
kind of working relationship, anything like that to keep the staff,
(13:22):
because if they don't accommodate, and they said no, we
can't accommodate that, then they will leave. They will go
elsewhere within the territory or into state to get what
they want. And it's not just the territory, it's like this,
it's the whole of Australia. But because we're a smaller
(13:43):
territory on a vast land and it's really hard to
get services and access the services we really need to know,
bend down the knee, so to speak, and give the
nurses and midwives what they want.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Well, Kath Hatcher, I always appreciate your time, and I
know that our nurses and midwives well they do an
absolutely phenomenal job, as all of our healthcare workers do.
But we appreciate the work that they do and we
appreciate your time today.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
You're very welcome, Katie, anytime.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Thank you
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.