Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The line is Cath Hatcher from the Nursing and Midwifery
Federation of the Northern Territory, the Secretary. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Cat Oh, good morning, Katie, Kath.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Another couple of code yellow sort of last week. There
was one it was lifted Friday. There was one prior
to that that was lifted on the twenty eighth of March.
How are things going from your perspective?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
The hospital kind of sits at about one hundred percent
capacity or just under and then it fluctuates up to
you know, one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty capacity.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
And when it gets to those type of levels, then
they reach out to all staff hands on deck and
the way that they do that is to court coder sorry,
to call a code yellow, and that means that everyone
comes out and helps, and it means that there's much
(01:03):
double bunking happening in the emergency department, or they've got
excess patients sitting on the wards that they need to
admit plus or minus need to send patients home, and
they try to send them to the discharged lounge, which
(01:24):
is on the ground floor to try and alleviate those beds.
So they can get the new patients in. That's just
shortness of staff, but it's the complexity of patients around
the top end. And you know we also take on
board patients from Catherine and Gove and right across the
(01:47):
top of the NT and sometimes across the top of WA,
so impacts. They also try to buy beds at the
private hospitals well to try and put public patients across
there as well. So it's a big complex issue.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Cas a we short staff allviate like are we short
staffed when it comes to nurses? I know you and
I have spoken about that before. Has it been much
work done in terms of boosting those numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
They? I mean, as you know, we had at Christmas
time about four hundred and forty for full time equivalent
staff down. That has got slightly better by about one
hundred and twenty eight full time equivalents. The rest of
about ten percent filled with agency staff and right across
(02:42):
the territory apparently is a vacancy rate of about four percent,
but some areas don't have any vacancy rate, which is
a minority, and then other areas like wild Dull and
Palmston hospitals would probably have somewhere around the twenty percent
or give or take percentage of vacancy. So then they're
(03:06):
trying to look at their casuals, their pull staff agency
and full you know, people with permanent jobs at the
hospitals filling in by doing extra shifts through the week
to try and compensate. But everyone is tired of doing
their extra shifts and there needs to be Yes, they
(03:29):
need to get more staff across from agency paying them
their high amount of dollars per hour, trying to try
and entice them across to become a permanent employee with
the Department of Health and the same is happening around Australia,
but it's just not happening because the nurses want to
(03:50):
have flexibility and they want to be able to say
work two months on, have a month of where you
can't well not always get that within the department.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, yep. So then sometimes working as an agency work
gives you that gives you that flexibility, I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yep, yes, absolutely, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
We also have have obviously seen this morning it's been
reported by the NT Independent that essentially the neonatal Intensive
care Unit at Royal Daht Hospital is no longer treating
children born before thirty two weeks gestation because of a
lack of staff Kav what do you know in this space?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yes, we were alluded to this a few weeks ago
as well, and it's very unfortunate that, you know, time's
gone past. They have had the highly skilled and trained
nurses that can look after the little babies from twenty
four weeks right through to thirty two weeks yep. And
(04:52):
in that time that they need to have that the
nurses need to have that extra certific with looking after
the natal intensive care little ones with intubation or seapat machines,
and unfortunately at the moment, there's apparently only one nurse
(05:14):
that is qualified to do that at the moment, so
they've had to make a rough, very hard decision to
stand down any other pregnant women or babies born before
thirty two weeks that they need to go into state.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Wow, so only one nurse in the territory at this
point in time that's got that qualification.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Will Darwin?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, Darwin, Yeah, Like is that quite surprising to you?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It is quite surprising. I mean, the twenty four years
that I've worked here in the territory and nineteen of
those working at Yal Darwin. They've always had enough staff
to be able to accommodate basically any baby born before
thirty two weeks that's bible from twenty four weeks onwards.
Occasionally they might have had a big influx, you know,
(06:07):
in March and September things to be the bigger months
for babies to be born, and occasionally they might have
had overflow and have had nowhere to absolute put them.
So they've transferred them into state so to be able
to manage what they've already got and so everyone is
getting the best care that they have can give.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Y Kath, just going back to what you said there,
you know that a nurse in that neonatal intensive key
unit requires that additional training to be able to intubate
a baby of you know that is that young. If
we're then if we're now in a situation where where
a baby is having to be taken by care flights
(06:50):
interstate with their mum, you know, when they are born
that early, like, is there a risk here that that
things could go very badly if you don't have somebody
that's that's qualified to do that while they are here
in the territory during what I would think are pretty
vital hours.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yes, certainly, so if you know potentially they would be
getting transferred to Adelaide, well, then the team from Adelaide
with their expertise, a pediatrician or ninatologist who specializes in
little infants and a nurse that has got that extra
qualification can come up and pick up the baby and
(07:32):
take it back to Adelaide. Or if there was an
expertise of that one nurse available and a ninotologist here,
then you know, they could take the patient down to Adelaide.
But besides having only one qualified nurse in a ninato
intensive care you know, I also believe that they haven't
(07:56):
got a permanent neonatologist either here at Royal Dah and
Palms In Hospital, which is also exacerbating the problem. So
they need to have a permanent at least one, if
not too permanent near natologists, and they need to have
you know, many I don't know how many staff they
require that they need more than one qualified as a nurse.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I don't want to be, you know, like I don't
want to be causing alarm for the community in this space.
But look, I've you know, I've got two kids in
my own they're grown up now. I know how frightening
it is, or you can feel when you're pregnant, and
I cannot imagine how frightening it is for some expectant
mums if they then go into labor in the very
(08:43):
early stages of their pregnancy, before thirty two weeks, it
would be incredibly frightening. Is there a risk here for
these mums and their bums if we don't have a
neonatologist and those specialized nurses or I don't have enough
of them. If a mom is in a situation where
(09:04):
she goes into labor very very early, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
There's risks either side. So yes, they're Rodney and apologists
and at least that one Sequit Niku nurse here at
Royal dal In Hospital. So they've made the right decision
under the bad circumstance at the moment to have the
community mothers and babies being cared for elsewhere, which is
(09:33):
always at a risk, and it's unfortunate for moms to
go down into state, away from their family and communities, etc.
To have the care that they need and then they'll
be able to come back after the babies at least
thirty two weeks above that. But you've got to also
(09:54):
look at yes, if someone went into labor at twenty
one or twenty eight weeks per se, they the people
in the clinics out in communities, or the doctors and
nurses and midwives within the hospital, they would give them
some medication to try and suppress be the pregnant sorry,
(10:18):
the labor potential labor, and if they're stable enough, they
would transport that mother with the baby still inside down
to Brisbane or Adelaide or Melbourne with accompanying midwife plus
or minus pediatrician or obstetrician to go down to the
(10:41):
other states to get that care.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
All right, So there are therese and you know, I know,
like I always say whenever I speak to nurses or
doctors people in this space, they are absolutely incredible at
what they do and in those difficult emergency situations as well,
they you know, they know better than anybody how to
deal with them. So it does sound as though there
is definitely some measures there in place to any expectant
(11:07):
mums listening to the show this morning that might be
quite concerned really upon hearing that we no longer are
able to care for babies if they are born PREMI
before thirty two weeks that they are going to obviously
have to head into state. Kath. We've got a few
messages people coming through really about the state of those
(11:29):
code yellows and people asking if you've sort of got
any idea when it comes to those emissions admissions I
should say in emergency is have we got a lot
of alcohol related you know, presentations? I guess is the
right word.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, they certainly do have alcohol and other drug presentations
to the emergency department on every shift, every day, and
they can be a small percentage to sometimes being quite
a number of clients turning up that are in distress
(12:09):
because they have alcohol or other drugs on board and
they're needing mental health support or drug support. Unfortunately, you know,
if they're in a crisis, the ED is the person
the place to go. But hopefully they are already in
the system that they can access their care worker and
(12:30):
their support worker and trying to for the mental health
support team that they can try and avoid emergency department,
but sometimes that's unavoidable and they do need that urgent
care like other people do. But yes, it is a
concern and it can be very time consuming and worrying
(12:53):
for other patients that are in the ED as well
with a vulnerable type yelling out with alcohol and other
drugs on board.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
KAS one of the other things that we have had
raised to us over recent weeks. And look, I know
it's kind of it's it's probably not one for you,
but I'm just wondering whether it's something that you've been
alluded to as well, and that is some really quite
long delays for people needing things like ultrasounds for you know,
for lumps in breast, needing, things like ultrasounds for you know,
(13:29):
for for different issues that they may have in terms
of you know, their their stomachs and those kinds of things.
Is that something that you've sort of heard about in
recent weeks.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, I have heard that over the last you know,
twelve to eighteen months that not just nurses, midwives, doctors,
other healthcare workers, but also radiologists snographers are also short
staffed as well, so they're trying to continuously recruit to
those positions throughout the territory and they do have the
(14:07):
similar issues across Australia, so they're trying to do their
best and recruit to their team and trying, you know,
not to have those delays of a month until you
have an ultrasound of the breast you know before say
for suspicious lump, etc. And it is concerning that, you know,
(14:29):
having to wait for over a month is stressful, etc.
But yes, I have heard that they have been delayed
and that's unfortunate because of staff shortages as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I wonder as well, longer term, what it's going to mean.
I suppose in terms of some of those those different
illnesses and those you know, those different yeah things like cancer,
whether it does mean that people's diagnoses are sort of
prolonged and they're not being picked up as early as
what we may like.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, I hope I hope not too. And I hope
that as soon as it's discovered that the treatment is
pretty quick and not delayed for staffing or any other
you know, healthcare concerns.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, well, yes it is. And look it's I guess
it's across the board, isn't it. There's quite a few
things there for us, you know, to think about. Cath Hatcher,
I always appreciate your time. I know that you're incredibly busy.
Thank you so very much for having a chat with
us this morning.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
You're welcome, Katie. I was just going to say about,
you know, the delays in these ultrasounds, and then you've
got the code yellows happening in the hospital. Ye. What
happens with the code yellows is that they delay the
elective surgeries. Although something like a lump in the breast
that is canceroers won't be an elective surgery. It'll be
(15:57):
a category to type surgery, so they shouldn't be delayed.
So just letting the public know that the simple things,
you know, like a need replacement, even though it's very
painful and you need the knee replacement, it's not life threatening.
Whereas a lump in the breast, if that's delayed, then
(16:19):
it won't be for these code yellows happening at the hospital.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
That is good to hear because I think that you
know that for a lot of people, it, like you said,
if you need your knee replaced or something, it is
absolutely something that you want to have happened as quickly
as you can. But if it's not life threatening, I
think it is good to know that those kinds of
surgeries aren't being delayed. No, No, correct Kath thank you.
(16:44):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, you're very welcome. Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That is Kat Hatcher there. She is indeed the head
of the nursing and with Reunion here in the Northern
Territory or the nursing and with Refederation, I should say,
The line is Cath Hatcher from the Nursing and Midwifery
Federation of the Northern Territory, the Secretary. Good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Cat Oh, good morning, Katie, Kath.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Another couple of code yellow sort of last week. There
was one it was lifted Friday. There was one prior
to that that was lifted on the twenty eighth of March.
How are things going from your perspective?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
The hospital kind of sits at about one hundred percent
capacity or just under and then it fluctuates up to
you know, one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty capacity.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
And when it gets to those type of levels, then
they reach out to all staff hands on deck and
the way that they do that is to court coder sorry,
to call a code yellow, and that means that everyone
comes out and helps, and it means that there's much
(01:03):
double bunking happening in the emergency department, or they've got
excess patients sitting on the wards that they need to
admit plus or minus need to send patients home, and
they try to send them to the discharged lounge, which
(01:24):
is on the ground floor to try and alleviate those beds.
So they can get the new patients in. That's just
shortness of staff, but it's the complexity of patients around
the top end. And you know we also take on
board patients from Catherine and Gove and right across the
(01:47):
top of the NT and sometimes across the top of WA,
so impacts. They also try to buy beds at the
private hospitals well to try and put public patients across
there as well. So it's a big complex issue.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Cas a we short staff allviate like are we short
staffed when it comes to nurses? I know you and
I have spoken about that before. Has it been much
work done in terms of boosting those numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
They? I mean, as you know, we had at Christmas
time about four hundred and forty for full time equivalent
staff down. That has got slightly better by about one
hundred and twenty eight full time equivalents. The rest of
about ten percent filled with agency staff and right across
(02:42):
the territory apparently is a vacancy rate of about four percent,
but some areas don't have any vacancy rate, which is
a minority, and then other areas like wild Dull and
Palmston hospitals would probably have somewhere around the twenty percent
or give or take percentage of vacancy. So then they're
(03:06):
trying to look at their casuals, their pull staff agency
and full you know, people with permanent jobs at the
hospitals filling in by doing extra shifts through the week
to try and compensate. But everyone is tired of doing
their extra shifts and there needs to be Yes, they
(03:29):
need to get more staff across from agency paying them
their high amount of dollars per hour, trying to try
and entice them across to become a permanent employee with
the Department of Health and the same is happening around Australia,
but it's just not happening because the nurses want to
(03:50):
have flexibility and they want to be able to say
work two months on, have a month of where you
can't well not always get that within the department.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
Yeah, yep. So then sometimes working as an agency work
gives you that gives you that flexibility, I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yep, yes, absolutely, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
We also have have obviously seen this morning it's been
reported by the NT Independent that essentially the neonatal Intensive
care Unit at Royal Daht Hospital is no longer treating
children born before thirty two weeks gestation because of a
lack of staff Kav what do you know in this space?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Yes, we were alluded to this a few weeks ago
as well, and it's very unfortunate that, you know, time's
gone past. They have had the highly skilled and trained
nurses that can look after the little babies from twenty
four weeks right through to thirty two weeks yep. And
(04:52):
in that time that they need to have that the
nurses need to have that extra certific with looking after
the natal intensive care little ones with intubation or seapat machines,
and unfortunately at the moment, there's apparently only one nurse
(05:14):
that is qualified to do that at the moment, so
they've had to make a rough, very hard decision to
stand down any other pregnant women or babies born before
thirty two weeks that they need to go into state.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Wow, so only one nurse in the territory at this
point in time that's got that qualification.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Will Darwin?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Yeah, Darwin, Yeah, Like is that quite surprising to you?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
It is quite surprising. I mean, the twenty four years
that I've worked here in the territory and nineteen of
those working at Yal Darwin. They've always had enough staff
to be able to accommodate basically any baby born before
thirty two weeks that's bible from twenty four weeks onwards.
Occasionally they might have had a big influx, you know,
(06:07):
in March and September things to be the bigger months
for babies to be born, and occasionally they might have
had overflow and have had nowhere to absolute put them.
So they've transferred them into state so to be able
to manage what they've already got and so everyone is
getting the best care that they have can give.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Y Kath, just going back to what you said there,
you know that a nurse in that neonatal intensive key
unit requires that additional training to be able to intubate
a baby of you know that is that young. If
we're then if we're now in a situation where where
a baby is having to be taken by care flights
(06:50):
interstate with their mum, you know, when they are born
that early, like, is there a risk here that that
things could go very badly if you don't have somebody
that's that's qualified to do that while they are here
in the territory during what I would think are pretty
vital hours.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yes, certainly, so if you know potentially they would be
getting transferred to Adelaide, well, then the team from Adelaide
with their expertise, a pediatrician or ninatologist who specializes in
little infants and a nurse that has got that extra
qualification can come up and pick up the baby and
(07:32):
take it back to Adelaide. Or if there was an
expertise of that one nurse available and a ninotologist here,
then you know, they could take the patient down to Adelaide.
But besides having only one qualified nurse in a ninato
intensive care you know, I also believe that they haven't
(07:56):
got a permanent neonatologist either here at Royal Dah and
Palms In Hospital, which is also exacerbating the problem. So
they need to have a permanent at least one, if
not too permanent near natologists, and they need to have
you know, many I don't know how many staff they
require that they need more than one qualified as a nurse.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I don't want to be, you know, like I don't
want to be causing alarm for the community in this space.
But look, I've you know, I've got two kids in
my own they're grown up now. I know how frightening
it is, or you can feel when you're pregnant, and
I cannot imagine how frightening it is for some expectant
mums if they then go into labor in the very
(08:43):
early stages of their pregnancy, before thirty two weeks, it
would be incredibly frightening. Is there a risk here for
these mums and their bums if we don't have a
neonatologist and those specialized nurses or I don't have enough
of them. If a mom is in a situation where
(09:04):
she goes into labor very very early, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
There's risks either side. So yes, they're Rodney and apologists
and at least that one Sequit Niku nurse here at
Royal dal In Hospital. So they've made the right decision
under the bad circumstance at the moment to have the
community mothers and babies being cared for elsewhere, which is
(09:33):
always at a risk, and it's unfortunate for moms to
go down into state, away from their family and communities, etc.
To have the care that they need and then they'll
be able to come back after the babies at least
thirty two weeks above that. But you've got to also
(09:54):
look at yes, if someone went into labor at twenty
one or twenty eight weeks per se, they the people
in the clinics out in communities, or the doctors and
nurses and midwives within the hospital, they would give them
some medication to try and suppress be the pregnant sorry,
(10:18):
the labor potential labor, and if they're stable enough, they
would transport that mother with the baby still inside down
to Brisbane or Adelaide or Melbourne with accompanying midwife plus
or minus pediatrician or obstetrician to go down to the
(10:41):
other states to get that care.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
All right, So there are therese and you know, I know,
like I always say whenever I speak to nurses or
doctors people in this space, they are absolutely incredible at
what they do and in those difficult emergency situations as well,
they you know, they know better than anybody how to
deal with them. So it does sound as though there
is definitely some measures there in place to any expectant
(11:07):
mums listening to the show this morning that might be
quite concerned really upon hearing that we no longer are
able to care for babies if they are born PREMI
before thirty two weeks that they are going to obviously
have to head into state. Kath. We've got a few
messages people coming through really about the state of those
(11:29):
code yellows and people asking if you've sort of got
any idea when it comes to those emissions admissions I
should say in emergency is have we got a lot
of alcohol related you know, presentations? I guess is the
right word.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Yes, they certainly do have alcohol and other drug presentations
to the emergency department on every shift, every day, and
they can be a small percentage to sometimes being quite
a number of clients turning up that are in distress
(12:09):
because they have alcohol or other drugs on board and
they're needing mental health support or drug support. Unfortunately, you know,
if they're in a crisis, the ED is the person
the place to go. But hopefully they are already in
the system that they can access their care worker and
(12:30):
their support worker and trying to for the mental health
support team that they can try and avoid emergency department,
but sometimes that's unavoidable and they do need that urgent
care like other people do. But yes, it is a
concern and it can be very time consuming and worrying
(12:53):
for other patients that are in the ED as well
with a vulnerable type yelling out with alcohol and other
drugs on board.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
KAS one of the other things that we have had
raised to us over recent weeks. And look, I know
it's kind of it's it's probably not one for you,
but I'm just wondering whether it's something that you've been
alluded to as well, and that is some really quite
long delays for people needing things like ultrasounds for you know,
for lumps in breast, needing, things like ultrasounds for you know,
(13:29):
for for different issues that they may have in terms
of you know, their their stomachs and those kinds of things.
Is that something that you've sort of heard about in
recent weeks.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah, I have heard that over the last you know,
twelve to eighteen months that not just nurses, midwives, doctors,
other healthcare workers, but also radiologists snographers are also short
staffed as well, so they're trying to continuously recruit to
those positions throughout the territory and they do have the
(14:07):
similar issues across Australia, so they're trying to do their
best and recruit to their team and trying, you know,
not to have those delays of a month until you
have an ultrasound of the breast you know before say
for suspicious lump, etc. And it is concerning that, you know,
(14:29):
having to wait for over a month is stressful, etc.
But yes, I have heard that they have been delayed
and that's unfortunate because of staff shortages as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I wonder as well, longer term, what it's going to mean.
I suppose in terms of some of those those different
illnesses and those you know, those different yeah things like cancer,
whether it does mean that people's diagnoses are sort of
prolonged and they're not being picked up as early as
what we may like.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, I hope I hope not too. And I hope
that as soon as it's discovered that the treatment is
pretty quick and not delayed for staffing or any other
you know, healthcare concerns.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, well, yes it is. And look it's I guess
it's across the board, isn't it. There's quite a few
things there for us, you know, to think about. Cath Hatcher,
I always appreciate your time. I know that you're incredibly busy.
Thank you so very much for having a chat with
us this morning.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
You're welcome, Katie. I was just going to say about,
you know, the delays in these ultrasounds, and then you've
got the code yellows happening in the hospital. Ye. What
happens with the code yellows is that they delay the
elective surgeries. Although something like a lump in the breast
that is canceroers won't be an elective surgery. It'll be
(15:57):
a category to type surgery, so they shouldn't be delayed.
So just letting the public know that the simple things,
you know, like a need replacement, even though it's very
painful and you need the knee replacement, it's not life threatening.
Whereas a lump in the breast, if that's delayed, then
(16:19):
it won't be for these code yellows happening at the hospital.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
That is good to hear because I think that you
know that for a lot of people, it, like you said,
if you need your knee replaced or something, it is
absolutely something that you want to have happened as quickly
as you can. But if it's not life threatening, I
think it is good to know that those kinds of
surgeries aren't being delayed. No, No, correct Kath thank you.
(16:44):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. I really
appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
No, you're very welcome. Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
That is Kat Hatcher there. She is indeed the head
of the nursing and with Reunion here in the Northern
Territory or the nursing and with Refederation, I should say,
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