Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know that. Last week the big news was the
appointment of Martin Dole APM as the fifteenth Police Commissioner,
who is going to be based in Alice Springs. The
Chief Minister telling us on the show last week that
she's confident Commissioner Doll is going to take the force
forward in the interests of the community and frontline officers.
But while the Police Association have congratulated mister Dole on
(00:22):
his appointment, they've raised serious concerns over how it happened.
The Chief Minister, Leafanocchiaro joins me in the studio, good
morning to your Chief Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Mining Katie, and tell your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now, Chief the Association have of course acknowledged that Commissioner
Dole is a respected, long serving police officer, But Nathan Finn,
the President, says the direct appointment, made without a transparent
recruitment process, undermines public trust and ignores the recent inquiry
recommendations into senior police appointments. I mean, are you concerned
(00:54):
that the direct appointment ignores those inquiry recommendations?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
No, Katian, it's actually that' quite the opposite. So the
blow inquiry, you know, went on for a very long
time and we've talked about that. It went longer than
anyone expected, but what it did do is allow us
to move forward.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It allowed us to draw a line in the stand. Now.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It has six recommendations which we're moving through very very quickly.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We've committed to all of them and they will be done.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
And one of the big takeaways from BLOW was that
people need to be appointed on merit for both the
role and the rank, because it's not just you know,
it's not just sometimes about appointing the smartest person in
the room. It's about do they have all of the
qualities you need to do that job now. Martin Doele
is a veteran police officer. He's served in the Northern
Territory Police Force for twenty nine years. He's a born
(01:37):
and bred Territorian. He's served in just about every role
across the entire force, in every region, and he has
done an exceptional job as Acting Police Commissioner for the
last seven months now. I was surprised and a bit
insulted on behalf of the men and women of our
police force to see the NTPA come out and say, oh,
maybe someone better from interstate.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Could have got it.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I just don't even That's what they were trying to
say is that this is a direct appointment. So they're
questioning whether it undermines public trust given the fact that
we've just had this inquiry and you know then you've
come out and you've said there was no better person
in the country for the role. But how do you
know that when you've skipped that process.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, because the Chief Minister appoints the police Commissioner like
I do a number of other roles. We've just had
the Prime Minister appoint the Austrian Federal Police Commissioner. There
was a very large into you know, sixty Minutes did
a big story on her last night, So this is
very very normal practice. Now I don't believe that an
interstate person should be the Police Commissioner of the Northern
Territory Police Force. We have a very unique operating environment
(02:43):
and so I'm thrilled with Martin Dole. In the seven
months he's been acting commissioner, he has designed and delivered
OC Spray, designed and is rolling out police Projective Services officers,
and has delivered the biggest payor deal in twenty years
for our cops. So he's the man for the job
and it's it's going to be fantastic moving force.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean taking into account what you've said that you
believe a territory and is the best possible person for
that role. How do you know there's not someone else
within the ranks who may have been fantastic for the
job as well if you didn't go through that process.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Look, we have fantastic men and women in blue. And
at the end of the day, the Chief Minister makes
this decision. It's based on merit for both the role
and the rank. He I want continuity and certainty for
our force. He is in that role and now was
seamlessly continue in that role. And that is the decision
made in the best interests of the Northern Territory Police
Force and the Northern Territory community as we move forward
(03:35):
with this strong law and order agenda.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I mean, there does seem to be a bit of
a rift at the moment between you or your government
and the Northern Territory Police Association. Is that a worry
from your perspective given the fact that you know largely
your government's agenda requires the Northern Territory Police Force to
deliver a lot of these law changes and a lot
(03:58):
of these changes that really aimed at trying to curb
the issues of crime.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, and they're doing an amazing job.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I've been on the ground in Alice Springs a couple
of times this week, Katie and meeting with our police
on every occasion, going out on the street with them,
and they're really pleased to see. And they actually put
it back to me and said, we're really proud to
see that the suggestions we've made directly to you are
actually now reflected in law. So that work continues, and
they are doing an amazing job. We're seeing some big reductions.
(04:25):
For example, I went and visited at locksmith who works
twenty four to seven in Alice, and he has had
since Christmas a reduction in crime related callouts overnight by
eighty percent, consistently throughout.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
This entire that it's gone down eighty percent totally.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
He has the number of callouts he's doing has dropped.
Crime related call outs has dropped eighty percent. So plenty
more work to do. This is not job done, but
you can see that there is a trend starting to
happen where we're getting on top of this. So we
back our men and women in blue. We respect the
Police Association. They have a very very important job to
do and we're not always going to see eye to
(05:01):
eye and their jobs to be that advocacy body, and
that's how the system.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Works, all right. I want to move along because there
is a lot to cover off on this morning. Now.
Last week news emerged that the Northern Territory opposition leader
had missus the white car show Fur service for personal use,
attending multiple social events and medical appointments. We then interviewed
Joe Hearsey this time last Monday, and she confirmed that
she too had used that white vehicle on at least
(05:27):
one occasion in a way which really isn't what the
public would expect. I mean, Chief Minister, how often do
you think this white car service is being misused? And
does there need to be a look into this look.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
We've double and triple check Katie.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Obviously there's been a couple of instances there that have
fowled to meet community expectations. And it's good to see
the two members immediately pay back the money and front up.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So Joe Hearsey's paid that money back.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Both Selena Yuvo and Joehersey. You know where you know,
we're all human people make mistakes, but at the end
of the day, there's a very high expectation on the
use of public resources, and so you know, we're very
confident that this is all being done in accordance with
the rules.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
How much did Joe pay back do you know? Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I think it was about forty five dollars.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah. Now, in terms of the rules and guidelines for
the use of those white cars, are they very clear
rules and guidelines? Why is there like why are their
blueodlines here that?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I'm not really sure, And of course we've reinforced
to everybody what those clear rules are. Well, yeah, you
can't use it for party political activities and you can't
use it for personal activities like going to birthday parties
and doctor's appointments.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So that's very clear.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It's all been reinforced and reminded and strengthened, and so
I'm very confident moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So are you are you prepared to release those rules publicly?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
They're an internal document like a million others. Katie and
I think it was interesting during estimates. I really noticed,
you know, there was lots of questions around internal policies
right across government that don't get provided. But people can
be confident in the use of the service, and that
people have put their hand and said, yep, I stuffed up.
I've paid it back, I'm really sorry, and it won't
be done again.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Well, look, they shouldn't. You shouldn't have to worry about that. Like,
this is the thing. I think it's a bit embarrassing
when people are using it, you know, for their own
for their own sort of luxury. I will say, because
it is a real privilege to be able to use
those white cars. But also, like I get the argument
for Bush members when they come into town that it
is more difficult for them to you know, to maybe
(07:29):
hire a car or whatever. But they also get four
hundred dollars a day, is my understanding, and travel allout.
So I just think it's bs that then you can't
go within the rules. Rules are there for a reason reason.
Have you ever misused the white car?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
No, Katie, it's all in accordance with the rules, so
as the rest of the team. And look, it's unfortunate
it's happened, and you know what, everyone's pulled their sucks
up and we just we plow on.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So just to be just to sort of you know,
to finalize this. You're not prepared to make those rules public.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
No, okat they're they're an internal based document like many others.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
But you are one hundred percent confidence that you and
nobody else on your team of missus.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Size I am.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So how do you restore that confidence to the Northern
Territory public, who, to be really blunt about it, think
that ministers, the Opposition leader others might be just having
a lend here of Territorians. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Look, I think the instances speak for themselves. They've put
their hand up, they've paid it back, they made a mistake,
We've reinforced the rules, checked everything.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You know, it is what it is. I can't you know.
It happened. So it's happened.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
We've dealt with it, and it's just it's about moving
forward appropriately, all right.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I want to ask you about an email that's been
sent to the Prime Minister and also to you and
all of the other chief ministers and premiers across Australia.
Now it's from the Women's Forum Australia. They have written
that they say, we've profound concern for the safety and
dignity of women incarcerated in our nation's prisons. Following a
series of deeply troubling cases that have come to light
(09:01):
across multiple jurisdictions which involve male offenders who identify as
women being housed in female facilities. Now I've read a
couple of these stories out throughout my whip around the
nation over the last week, and their woful. A couple
of weeks ago, The Australian was reporting that a trans
identified male offender who sexually abused his own five year
(09:21):
old daughter had been placed in a facility in Victoria. Now, disturbingly,
the court accepted arguments that the offender's gender dysorphia and
struggles with transition diminished his culpability, and that he committed
the abuse in part to be validated as a woman.
Now when I've read that story, I felt sick in
(09:42):
the guts. It is absolutely woeful that anybody's sentence against
their own child, male, female, whatever, would have any kind
of justification around it. But then on Friday, The Australian
also revealed an even more shocking story from South Australia
where inside a poort Agusta prison which accommodates both male
(10:03):
and female offenders, a female prisoner was failed in every
way imaginable. The letter states by the state's correctional services,
she was placed in a cell with a notoriously violent
trans identified male offender and was subjected to a horrific
sexual assault by him. Now they're just a couple. That's
of the incidents that have been listed here. Presumably you've
(10:24):
received this letter.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, I have received this letter, and we move very
quickly to confirm with corrections. And I can absolutely attest
to every territory and that trans if you are born agenda,
that is the prison you go in. So our women's
prison have women only. Trans people are not in our
women's part of our prison, and in fact, we're strengthening
that even further by of course moving ahead to build
(10:47):
the new women's prison, which will provide even better levels
of care to our women.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And so if somebody transitions from male to female.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
They will make the man's prison. Currently that is the rule,
and that rule will continue. We are not out of
their birth certificate, etc.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Says that they are female.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Well, look, I don't know the exact details on how
this stuff is worked out. I'm presuming chromosomes get involved, Katie.
But at the end of the day, if you're born
a bloke, you kind of men's prison, and we'll deal
with you there, but we do not mix across our
prison system.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I mean, in this letter, it says the incarceration of
male offenders in women's prisons represents a national human rights crisis.
So what do you say to Territorians this morning on
this Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
The letter is actually scathing.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
It goes as far to say that this, you know,
these types of laws that other states have where they
are allowing trends into other gender prisons, is actually this
ideologically driven law coming from state, you know, labor.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's basically call it out.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It's labor, state and federal governments running this social engineering agenda.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And that couldn't be further from what our government is about. Katie.
This is just practical common sense.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It's not dissimilar to the argument around men in women's sport.
And I think it's good that the Women's Forum have
stood up for women and said, hang on a second.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean, you know, women have been.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Fighting for rights for decades, generations, Katie, And so no,
you will not be seeing trans men or women in
women's prison.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I mean, what do you say to anybody who who says,
you know that that's the wrong direction that you know people. Look,
I've got I've got absolutely no issue with trans people
or form, no issue whatsoever. But I do start to
have issue when we are having women's rights eroded as
(12:38):
a result. Now, the other thing that I'm really worried about,
or that I certainly worry about in reading some of
those different stories in the national media, is that you
have to make sure that women are safe, whether they're
in the prison, no matter where they are, they have
to be safe. And I think it is worth pointing
out that no matter what gender you are, that you
(12:59):
know you find absolute creeps and people that are prepared
to do the wrong thing, no matter where they're from,
no matter what their background. But I do think it
is incredibly important that women are safe.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, I agree with you totally, Katie. This is not
about discrimination. This is about safety. This is about understanding
the way someone is built, and at the end of
the day, you know people will be Your text line
is probably blowing up with all the I can just
imagine what Technie and Katie. But at the end of
the day, we're not into this nonsense in the territory
my government. This is not what we are about if
(13:32):
you were born a man, you will go to male prison.
If you do the wrong thing, our cops will come
and get you and will happily find you a bed. Equally,
if you're a woman and you do the wrong thing,
you'll end up in a woman's prison. But there will
be no blurring of those lines. There isn't and there
won't be going forward.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
All right. I want to ask you about a situation
that's been raised with me on numerous occasions out in
Howard Springs. Now, last week I again spoke to a
resident in Howard Springs about their concerns relating to someone
in care who's been released by the courts on a
supervision order. Now, Dan told me the person was making
verbal threats and there appears to be no recourse for
(14:06):
residents in the street. Now. He also said that this
person was armed with a knife last week. Now it
follows on well from another situation that we'd spoken about
a couple of weeks ago, where a Darwin hostel manager
was allegedly kicked in the head multiple times by another
newly released prisoner who was also released into the community. Now,
(14:29):
this morning, we've got residents out in Howard Springs contacting us.
They're really really worried about this. What recourse is there
aside from calling the police, which most of the time
that's sort of after the fact, when more you know,
like when more alleged defendings occurring. Like the last thing
anybody wants, right is for one of these, you know,
(14:51):
one of these homes to change hands in their strat
but to then wind up with somebody on a supervision
order with an ankle bracelet on who's continueanuously causing issues
and you're straighted towards not.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, it's really scary and certainly I've been listening to
the feedback from your listeners, Katie and Jared Mayley, the
member for Nelson, is right across this issue.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
It's been a very difficult space.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
This is not an isolated incident, so I've had them
in my electorate. I've got some issues we're working through
in the Northern suburbs as well, and at the end
of the day, we've got we're working with the federal
government around what does that accountability for ndis look like. Now,
people deserve dignified care when they have mental health and
other issues, but people deserve to be safe as well,
(15:34):
and they deserve and have a right to quiet enjoyment
of their home. And so finding the balance on this
and finding the accountability on NDIS providers to be able
to be in a position to care for their client
and maintain that good order in the community is important,
and that nut is not cracked yet, but it is significant.
This is not unfortunately, this is not an isolated issue.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
No. And look, you know, for you and I, we've
got kids's got kids, got people yelling their f and
seas down the street, threatening people, you know, doing signals
that they're gonna slit his throat while you're out with
your kids trying to get them for school to school. Right,
it's not a key, it's absolutely appalling. So I suppose
what I'm trying to get to is, I know it
may be a federal government issue, but what can you
(16:17):
do or what can your government do to try and
help not only this family and the people in this street,
but others who might wind up in this situation? Because look,
I just think to myself, if I was a judge,
would I be happy with this person living in mind?
To me?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And you know those judges may well ask themselves that
may well think all right, this person seems so they're
going to be safe to live in that street.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
But now when you wind up and they're not, what
recourse have you got? Yeah, look, I encourage everyone to
contact your local member. That might sound a bit, you
know what, like a fob off, It isn't. That is
important because the local members are the ones who keep
track of these issues, and they're the ones who raise
it to higher levels. So I want everyone contacting their
local member with details. We can then capture that and
(17:01):
will continue our work with the federal government. But you
know what, Gosling deserves a few phone calls and emails
about this because it's his bloody government at a federal
level that don't care about the territory. So I think
a bit of advocacy to Luke and giving him a
bit of homework wouldn't go astray for him. And at
the end of the day, you know, we're building our
new health eighteen bed help mental health. Ward went out
(17:22):
and visited that at ARDH the other day. But this
is really if these issues are going to be pushed
back on to NDIS, we have to be looking then well,
are these people equipped to be able to deal with
the client tell.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And if not, you know, then they shouldn't have the whole.
And to be really blunt about it, so how do
we where are we they go? Well? Or how do
we get that home taken out of their hands? And
if they're not able to manage somebody of fashion, right,
that's exactly right, And what is the answer to well, well,
I don't have one, Katie, that's the problem.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So that is a federal government issue. And as I said,
this is not an uncommon thing. I've got situations in
my electric two. So go see your local member. Get
Luke Gosling on the whole for this, because at the
end of the day, federal labor need to listen. You know,
they only listen to their own team, it seems.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And well, I think on this we have to be constructive,
Like there's got to be constructive work here to sort
this issue out because it is not okay for those people. Look,
we are gonna have to wrap up. But what's on
the agenda this week in Parliament? Just very quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, we've got a big two weeks ahead, So we've
got some significant energy reform happening because labor has left
this space in a dog's breakfast and our focus is
about the cheapest, most reliable energy for territory and so
big changes there. Anti discrimination is coming back and getting
done finally, and so we will.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Do you think you're going to get in trouble for
saying that you won't allow trans people into female prisons
nap by who I don't know, the commissioner maybe like,
is that seriously? Is that be a concern?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Oh no, how ridiculous. Absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
That is our government policy. That's the rules in the
Northern Territory. If you don't like those rules, live somewhere else.
That's that's my message to listeners, Katie. If you know anyway,
I won't reagitate that. But anti discrim's happening, which was
our commitment to give faith based schools back the power
to be able to positively say we want people of faith.
If there are two candidates and one has the same
(19:12):
faith as at school, that they can say, yep, we're
gonna pick Mary because she, you know, is Anglican or
whatever it might be, and we're in Anglican school.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So that's really good. And what we're making.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Sure is that no one is just being discriminated, positively
discriminated against based on sex, so that's all been sortid.
We'll also have voluntary assisted dying. The report by the
Legal Constitutional Committee has come down, so people will be
able to talk about that, and the Attorney General is
preparing legislation. So plenty happening and I'm sure we'll touch
base over the next two weeks.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I'm sure we will. Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, appreciate your
time this morning, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Thanks everyone, Thank you.
We know that. Last week the big news was the
appointment of Martin Dole APM as the fifteenth Police Commissioner,
who is going to be based in Alice Springs. The
Chief Minister telling us on the show last week that
she's confident Commissioner Doll is going to take the force
forward in the interests of the community and frontline officers.
But while the Police Association have congratulated mister Dole on
(00:22):
his appointment, they've raised serious concerns over how it happened.
The Chief Minister, Leafanocchiaro joins me in the studio, good
morning to your Chief Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Mining Katie, and tell your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Now, Chief the Association have of course acknowledged that Commissioner
Dole is a respected, long serving police officer, But Nathan Finn,
the President, says the direct appointment, made without a transparent
recruitment process, undermines public trust and ignores the recent inquiry
recommendations into senior police appointments. I mean, are you concerned
(00:54):
that the direct appointment ignores those inquiry recommendations?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
No, Katian, it's actually that' quite the opposite. So the
blow inquiry, you know, went on for a very long
time and we've talked about that. It went longer than
anyone expected, but what it did do is allow us
to move forward.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
It allowed us to draw a line in the stand. Now.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
It has six recommendations which we're moving through very very quickly.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
We've committed to all of them and they will be done.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
And one of the big takeaways from BLOW was that
people need to be appointed on merit for both the
role and the rank, because it's not just you know,
it's not just sometimes about appointing the smartest person in
the room. It's about do they have all of the
qualities you need to do that job now. Martin Doele
is a veteran police officer. He's served in the Northern
Territory Police Force for twenty nine years. He's a born
(01:37):
and bred Territorian. He's served in just about every role
across the entire force, in every region, and he has
done an exceptional job as Acting Police Commissioner for the
last seven months now. I was surprised and a bit
insulted on behalf of the men and women of our
police force to see the NTPA come out and say, oh,
maybe someone better from interstate.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Could have got it.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I just don't even That's what they were trying to
say is that this is a direct appointment. So they're
questioning whether it undermines public trust given the fact that
we've just had this inquiry and you know then you've
come out and you've said there was no better person
in the country for the role. But how do you
know that when you've skipped that process.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Well, because the Chief Minister appoints the police Commissioner like
I do a number of other roles. We've just had
the Prime Minister appoint the Austrian Federal Police Commissioner. There
was a very large into you know, sixty Minutes did
a big story on her last night, So this is
very very normal practice. Now I don't believe that an
interstate person should be the Police Commissioner of the Northern
Territory Police Force. We have a very unique operating environment
(02:43):
and so I'm thrilled with Martin Dole. In the seven
months he's been acting commissioner, he has designed and delivered
OC Spray, designed and is rolling out police Projective Services officers,
and has delivered the biggest payor deal in twenty years
for our cops. So he's the man for the job
and it's it's going to be fantastic moving force.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I mean taking into account what you've said that you
believe a territory and is the best possible person for
that role. How do you know there's not someone else
within the ranks who may have been fantastic for the
job as well if you didn't go through that process.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Look, we have fantastic men and women in blue. And
at the end of the day, the Chief Minister makes
this decision. It's based on merit for both the role
and the rank. He I want continuity and certainty for
our force. He is in that role and now was
seamlessly continue in that role. And that is the decision
made in the best interests of the Northern Territory Police
Force and the Northern Territory community as we move forward
(03:35):
with this strong law and order agenda.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
I mean, there does seem to be a bit of
a rift at the moment between you or your government
and the Northern Territory Police Association. Is that a worry
from your perspective given the fact that you know largely
your government's agenda requires the Northern Territory Police Force to
deliver a lot of these law changes and a lot
(03:58):
of these changes that really aimed at trying to curb
the issues of crime.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, and they're doing an amazing job.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I've been on the ground in Alice Springs a couple
of times this week, Katie and meeting with our police
on every occasion, going out on the street with them,
and they're really pleased to see. And they actually put
it back to me and said, we're really proud to
see that the suggestions we've made directly to you are
actually now reflected in law. So that work continues, and
they are doing an amazing job. We're seeing some big reductions.
(04:25):
For example, I went and visited at locksmith who works
twenty four to seven in Alice, and he has had
since Christmas a reduction in crime related callouts overnight by
eighty percent, consistently throughout.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
This entire that it's gone down eighty percent totally.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
He has the number of callouts he's doing has dropped.
Crime related call outs has dropped eighty percent. So plenty
more work to do. This is not job done, but
you can see that there is a trend starting to
happen where we're getting on top of this. So we
back our men and women in blue. We respect the
Police Association. They have a very very important job to
do and we're not always going to see eye to
(05:01):
eye and their jobs to be that advocacy body, and
that's how the system.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Works, all right. I want to move along because there
is a lot to cover off on this morning. Now.
Last week news emerged that the Northern Territory opposition leader
had missus the white car show Fur service for personal use,
attending multiple social events and medical appointments. We then interviewed
Joe Hearsey this time last Monday, and she confirmed that
she too had used that white vehicle on at least
(05:27):
one occasion in a way which really isn't what the
public would expect. I mean, Chief Minister, how often do
you think this white car service is being misused? And
does there need to be a look into this look.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
We've double and triple check Katie.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Obviously there's been a couple of instances there that have
fowled to meet community expectations. And it's good to see
the two members immediately pay back the money and front up.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
So Joe Hearsey's paid that money back.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Both Selena Yuvo and Joehersey. You know where you know,
we're all human people make mistakes, but at the end
of the day, there's a very high expectation on the
use of public resources, and so you know, we're very
confident that this is all being done in accordance with
the rules.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
How much did Joe pay back do you know? Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I think it was about forty five dollars.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah. Now, in terms of the rules and guidelines for
the use of those white cars, are they very clear
rules and guidelines? Why is there like why are their
blueodlines here that?
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Yeah, I'm not really sure, And of course we've reinforced
to everybody what those clear rules are. Well, yeah, you
can't use it for party political activities and you can't
use it for personal activities like going to birthday parties
and doctor's appointments.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So that's very clear.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
It's all been reinforced and reminded and strengthened, and so
I'm very confident moving forward.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
So are you are you prepared to release those rules publicly?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
They're an internal document like a million others. Katie and
I think it was interesting during estimates. I really noticed,
you know, there was lots of questions around internal policies
right across government that don't get provided. But people can
be confident in the use of the service, and that
people have put their hand and said, yep, I stuffed up.
I've paid it back, I'm really sorry, and it won't
be done again.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Well, look, they shouldn't. You shouldn't have to worry about that. Like,
this is the thing. I think it's a bit embarrassing
when people are using it, you know, for their own
for their own sort of luxury. I will say, because
it is a real privilege to be able to use
those white cars. But also, like I get the argument
for Bush members when they come into town that it
is more difficult for them to you know, to maybe
(07:29):
hire a car or whatever. But they also get four
hundred dollars a day, is my understanding, and travel allout.
So I just think it's bs that then you can't
go within the rules. Rules are there for a reason reason.
Have you ever misused the white car?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
No, Katie, it's all in accordance with the rules, so
as the rest of the team. And look, it's unfortunate
it's happened, and you know what, everyone's pulled their sucks
up and we just we plow on.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
So just to be just to sort of you know,
to finalize this. You're not prepared to make those rules public.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
No, okat they're they're an internal based document like many others.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
But you are one hundred percent confidence that you and
nobody else on your team of missus.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Size I am.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So how do you restore that confidence to the Northern
Territory public, who, to be really blunt about it, think
that ministers, the Opposition leader others might be just having
a lend here of Territorians. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Look, I think the instances speak for themselves. They've put
their hand up, they've paid it back, they made a mistake,
We've reinforced the rules, checked everything.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You know, it is what it is. I can't you know.
It happened. So it's happened.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
We've dealt with it, and it's just it's about moving
forward appropriately, all right.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I want to ask you about an email that's been
sent to the Prime Minister and also to you and
all of the other chief ministers and premiers across Australia.
Now it's from the Women's Forum Australia. They have written
that they say, we've profound concern for the safety and
dignity of women incarcerated in our nation's prisons. Following a
series of deeply troubling cases that have come to light
(09:01):
across multiple jurisdictions which involve male offenders who identify as
women being housed in female facilities. Now I've read a
couple of these stories out throughout my whip around the
nation over the last week, and their woful. A couple
of weeks ago, The Australian was reporting that a trans
identified male offender who sexually abused his own five year
(09:21):
old daughter had been placed in a facility in Victoria. Now, disturbingly,
the court accepted arguments that the offender's gender dysorphia and
struggles with transition diminished his culpability, and that he committed
the abuse in part to be validated as a woman.
Now when I've read that story, I felt sick in
(09:42):
the guts. It is absolutely woeful that anybody's sentence against
their own child, male, female, whatever, would have any kind
of justification around it. But then on Friday, The Australian
also revealed an even more shocking story from South Australia
where inside a poort Agusta prison which accommodates both male
(10:03):
and female offenders, a female prisoner was failed in every
way imaginable. The letter states by the state's correctional services,
she was placed in a cell with a notoriously violent
trans identified male offender and was subjected to a horrific
sexual assault by him. Now they're just a couple. That's
of the incidents that have been listed here. Presumably you've
(10:24):
received this letter.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah, I have received this letter, and we move very
quickly to confirm with corrections. And I can absolutely attest
to every territory and that trans if you are born agenda,
that is the prison you go in. So our women's
prison have women only. Trans people are not in our
women's part of our prison, and in fact, we're strengthening
that even further by of course moving ahead to build
(10:47):
the new women's prison, which will provide even better levels
of care to our women.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
And so if somebody transitions from male to female.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
They will make the man's prison. Currently that is the rule,
and that rule will continue. We are not out of
their birth certificate, etc.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Says that they are female.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Well, look, I don't know the exact details on how
this stuff is worked out. I'm presuming chromosomes get involved, Katie.
But at the end of the day, if you're born
a bloke, you kind of men's prison, and we'll deal
with you there, but we do not mix across our
prison system.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
I mean, in this letter, it says the incarceration of
male offenders in women's prisons represents a national human rights crisis.
So what do you say to Territorians this morning on
this Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
The letter is actually scathing.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
It goes as far to say that this, you know,
these types of laws that other states have where they
are allowing trends into other gender prisons, is actually this
ideologically driven law coming from state, you know, labor.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
It's basically call it out.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It's labor, state and federal governments running this social engineering agenda.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
And that couldn't be further from what our government is about. Katie.
This is just practical common sense.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
It's not dissimilar to the argument around men in women's sport.
And I think it's good that the Women's Forum have
stood up for women and said, hang on a second.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I mean, you know, women have been.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Fighting for rights for decades, generations, Katie, And so no,
you will not be seeing trans men or women in
women's prison.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I mean, what do you say to anybody who who says,
you know that that's the wrong direction that you know people. Look,
I've got I've got absolutely no issue with trans people
or form, no issue whatsoever. But I do start to
have issue when we are having women's rights eroded as
(12:38):
a result. Now, the other thing that I'm really worried about,
or that I certainly worry about in reading some of
those different stories in the national media, is that you
have to make sure that women are safe, whether they're
in the prison, no matter where they are, they have
to be safe. And I think it is worth pointing
out that no matter what gender you are, that you
(12:59):
know you find absolute creeps and people that are prepared
to do the wrong thing, no matter where they're from,
no matter what their background. But I do think it
is incredibly important that women are safe.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Yeah, I agree with you totally, Katie. This is not
about discrimination. This is about safety. This is about understanding
the way someone is built, and at the end of
the day, you know people will be Your text line
is probably blowing up with all the I can just
imagine what Technie and Katie. But at the end of
the day, we're not into this nonsense in the territory
my government. This is not what we are about if
(13:32):
you were born a man, you will go to male prison.
If you do the wrong thing, our cops will come
and get you and will happily find you a bed. Equally,
if you're a woman and you do the wrong thing,
you'll end up in a woman's prison. But there will
be no blurring of those lines. There isn't and there
won't be going forward.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
All right. I want to ask you about a situation
that's been raised with me on numerous occasions out in
Howard Springs. Now, last week I again spoke to a
resident in Howard Springs about their concerns relating to someone
in care who's been released by the courts on a
supervision order. Now, Dan told me the person was making
verbal threats and there appears to be no recourse for
(14:06):
residents in the street. Now. He also said that this
person was armed with a knife last week. Now it
follows on well from another situation that we'd spoken about
a couple of weeks ago, where a Darwin hostel manager
was allegedly kicked in the head multiple times by another
newly released prisoner who was also released into the community. Now,
(14:29):
this morning, we've got residents out in Howard Springs contacting us.
They're really really worried about this. What recourse is there
aside from calling the police, which most of the time
that's sort of after the fact, when more you know,
like when more alleged defendings occurring. Like the last thing
anybody wants, right is for one of these, you know,
(14:51):
one of these homes to change hands in their strat
but to then wind up with somebody on a supervision
order with an ankle bracelet on who's continueanuously causing issues
and you're straighted towards not.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, it's really scary and certainly I've been listening to
the feedback from your listeners, Katie and Jared Mayley, the
member for Nelson, is right across this issue.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
It's been a very difficult space.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
This is not an isolated incident, so I've had them
in my electorate. I've got some issues we're working through
in the Northern suburbs as well, and at the end
of the day, we've got we're working with the federal
government around what does that accountability for ndis look like. Now,
people deserve dignified care when they have mental health and
other issues, but people deserve to be safe as well,
(15:34):
and they deserve and have a right to quiet enjoyment
of their home. And so finding the balance on this
and finding the accountability on NDIS providers to be able
to be in a position to care for their client
and maintain that good order in the community is important,
and that nut is not cracked yet, but it is significant.
This is not unfortunately, this is not an isolated issue.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
No. And look, you know, for you and I, we've
got kids's got kids, got people yelling their f and
seas down the street, threatening people, you know, doing signals
that they're gonna slit his throat while you're out with
your kids trying to get them for school to school. Right,
it's not a key, it's absolutely appalling. So I suppose
what I'm trying to get to is, I know it
may be a federal government issue, but what can you
(16:17):
do or what can your government do to try and
help not only this family and the people in this street,
but others who might wind up in this situation? Because look,
I just think to myself, if I was a judge,
would I be happy with this person living in mind?
To me?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Exactly?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And you know those judges may well ask themselves that
may well think all right, this person seems so they're
going to be safe to live in that street.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
But now when you wind up and they're not, what
recourse have you got? Yeah, look, I encourage everyone to
contact your local member. That might sound a bit, you
know what, like a fob off, It isn't. That is
important because the local members are the ones who keep
track of these issues, and they're the ones who raise
it to higher levels. So I want everyone contacting their
local member with details. We can then capture that and
(17:01):
will continue our work with the federal government. But you
know what, Gosling deserves a few phone calls and emails
about this because it's his bloody government at a federal
level that don't care about the territory. So I think
a bit of advocacy to Luke and giving him a
bit of homework wouldn't go astray for him. And at
the end of the day, you know, we're building our
new health eighteen bed help mental health. Ward went out
(17:22):
and visited that at ARDH the other day. But this
is really if these issues are going to be pushed
back on to NDIS, we have to be looking then well,
are these people equipped to be able to deal with
the client tell.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
And if not, you know, then they shouldn't have the whole.
And to be really blunt about it, so how do
we where are we they go? Well? Or how do
we get that home taken out of their hands? And
if they're not able to manage somebody of fashion, right,
that's exactly right, And what is the answer to well, well,
I don't have one, Katie, that's the problem.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
So that is a federal government issue. And as I said,
this is not an uncommon thing. I've got situations in
my electric two. So go see your local member. Get
Luke Gosling on the whole for this, because at the
end of the day, federal labor need to listen. You know,
they only listen to their own team, it seems.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And well, I think on this we have to be constructive,
Like there's got to be constructive work here to sort
this issue out because it is not okay for those people. Look,
we are gonna have to wrap up. But what's on
the agenda this week in Parliament? Just very quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Yeah, we've got a big two weeks ahead, So we've
got some significant energy reform happening because labor has left
this space in a dog's breakfast and our focus is
about the cheapest, most reliable energy for territory and so
big changes there. Anti discrimination is coming back and getting
done finally, and so we will.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Do you think you're going to get in trouble for
saying that you won't allow trans people into female prisons
nap by who I don't know, the commissioner maybe like,
is that seriously? Is that be a concern?
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Oh no, how ridiculous. Absolutely not.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
That is our government policy. That's the rules in the
Northern Territory. If you don't like those rules, live somewhere else.
That's that's my message to listeners, Katie. If you know anyway,
I won't reagitate that. But anti discrim's happening, which was
our commitment to give faith based schools back the power
to be able to positively say we want people of faith.
If there are two candidates and one has the same
(19:12):
faith as at school, that they can say, yep, we're
gonna pick Mary because she, you know, is Anglican or
whatever it might be, and we're in Anglican school.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So that's really good. And what we're making.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Sure is that no one is just being discriminated, positively
discriminated against based on sex, so that's all been sortid.
We'll also have voluntary assisted dying. The report by the
Legal Constitutional Committee has come down, so people will be
able to talk about that, and the Attorney General is
preparing legislation. So plenty happening and I'm sure we'll touch
base over the next two weeks.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
I'm sure we will. Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, appreciate your
time this morning, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Thanks everyone, Thank you.
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