Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know that there is a lot going on this morning,
particularly when we look at the new government and some
of the legislation that is set to be introduced to
Parliament next week. In the studio with me this morning,
it is the Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro. Good morning too,
Good morning Katie and to your listeners, great to have
you on the show. Now. I understand there has been
some movement on the introduction of Declan's Law when Parliament
(00:21):
sits next week.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What's the latest.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
So we've been working really hard over the last six
weeks to make sure we can deliver on all of
our election commitments to Territorians. Around that first sittings of Parliament,
we always said there was a crime crisis and it
needed a crisis response, which is why it's going to
be a jam pack two weeks of new powers for
police and a real focus on crime reduction. So we're
(00:44):
very proud that the flagship of all of those laws
is going to be Declan's Law. And I'm even prouder
to have Samara Lavity, Declan's mum, coming to Darwin, to
be able to witness all of her courageous and passionate
fight for Territorians to be safe and come into fruition.
So it's going to be a big two weeks, so
hold on to your hats.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
But it's the start of more to come.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
You know, this is not going to be laws that
create the silver bullet to all crime. It's about stemming
the tide or stopping the bleed. It's about giving our
police the powers they need and delivering on those commitments.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, I think it's also the expectation of the community.
And I know that there will be people who have
concerns around some of that legislation. I'll get to some
of that shortly, but it is the expectation.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Of the community.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
You came in on a mandate to deliver on reducing
the rates of crime, and that's what we all expect
to see.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
With Decklan's law.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I know that what it's going to mean is that
there'll be a presumption against bail for youth and adult
serious violent offenders. How is that going to work? I
guess for our listeners this morning to really understand what
that's going to mean to them and how it impacts
their life.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, that's a great question, Katie, and you're absolutely right.
People we said we would reduce crime. People voted for
us to reduce crime, and we're just getting on with
the job. There is no second guessing that we are
plowing ahead. So Declan's law specifically does a number of
things that a bunch of it relates to bail and
a chunk of it relates to knife crime. So if
I talk to bail, what this will mean is people
(02:11):
who are serious violent offenders, they're going to come to
court at that first opportunity they get to court, and
they will be on the back foot. They will have
a much higher threshold threshold and so will the judges
of going through the criteria of hang on, is this
person going to present an ongoing risk to our community?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
And that's what we want.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
We want more scrutiny over these people and less of
them bailed, essentially is what it's about. So a much
higher test, much stronger position for the victim the prosecution,
and so we hope and we know that that will
result in less people being bailed.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
It's also going to mean there will be.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
A presumption, sorry, a breach of bowl condition will now
be an offense. So that was removed by Labor. So
whether you're an adult offender or a youth offender. If
you were out on bail, which means you've been given
us second chance by the courts to do the right thing,
and you go and break the law again, that will
be a chargeable offense. You'll be brought back before the courts.
So that's two parts of it that. There's another part
(03:12):
of it, which will mean that for people who are
repeat serious violent offenders or violent offenders, if they've had
two of those types offenses in the last two years,
they will be regarded as a repeat offender, which again
means that they will start on the back foot. And
I just want to add that if, even though the
threshold is going to be so much higher, if the
courts find a way of bailing these people despite the
(03:36):
very clear laws and guidance we're providing, then the courts
will have to put electronic monitoring on them. So there's
a double backstep. It's a backup, right It sounds also.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You're sort of putting the courts on notice.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, we are, because at the end of the day,
the people, the members of Parliament are elected by the people.
The Parliament creates the laws that meets the people's expectation.
The courts and the judges are there to implement the laws.
So my job is Minister to make sure that the
territory's laws meet community expectation and the rest should follow.
And if it doesn't, we'll come back to Parliament and
we'll just keep going. Katie, there's you know, you don't
(04:10):
have to stop once and we're not going to set
this stuff and forget and say, oh, well I ticked
off my election commitment.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
That's done.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
This doesn't end here, it starts here, and that's what's
so important for people to understand.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now it is just one of the legislative changes that
are going to be introduced. We also know that you
are looking at these new posting and boasting laws.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, it's an offense.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It will become an offense and it will see a
penalty of up to two years jail. Again, how is
this going to work in a practical sense, because sometimes
you've got, you know, a group of people committing a crime.
How do you know who's posting it or who's behind it.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, we spend a lot of time looking at how
other jurisdictions do this because it's to some extent an
emerging area of law.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
But we think we've hit the right spot.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So in Queensland, for example, posting and boasting is attached
to ram raid, so you can only be charged with
posting and boasting if you've done a ram rain. What
we've decided to do is have it as a standalone
a fence, so that applies to a broader range of laws,
and that also means it's not necessarily the person committing
the crime. So for example, property damage is one of
(05:14):
the laws that it will apply to. So if you're
not the person committing the property damage, but it's your
mate and you're standing there filming it live into TikTok
or whatever these platforms are and boasting about it and
saying look at us, you know stuff you cops, whatever
it might be, then that person can be charged.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
They might not be able to be charged for the property.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Damage because they didn't do it, but they could be
charged with the posting and boasting. So it just gives
greater flexibility for our police and we'll have to watch
it and make sure it's working. But we wanted it
to be bigger than just ram rates, which we also
have new legislation for.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Look, I think it's a good idea. Some of what
we've seen out of Ella Springs, for example, is being crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But do you think it'll.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Work in a practical sense, Like, do you think that
it will actually mean that people are heard from committing
that offense?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
That is certainly our goal, CADI. So laws have a
number of things that they do. They meet a community
expectation or a standard of behavior is set, They deliver.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
A consequence for people who don't meet the community's.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Standard of behavior, and they act as a deterrent from
people breaking the law in the first place.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Right. So this is the.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Aim of all of these laws, and you know it'll
take time for some of them to build up and
people to be aware that we're serious about it, because
of course, for eight long years we've had a very
permissive system where crime has been free flowing and even
supported effectively. So we've got to unwind a big mess
and turn this ship around. But we're very committed to it,
(06:41):
and this reform is a first step in what will
be a bigger piece of work.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Look, I can see that there's going to be a
lot on the agenda for next week. There's going to
be so much on the agenda when it comes to
the introduction of legislation. As I said earlier, I think
it is you know, the government's been elected with this
mandate to try to get this thing under control. One
of the changes, though, that you are looking at is
(07:06):
is again lowering the criminal age of responsibility from twelve
to ten, and it has been met with criticism. I
know the Children's Commissioner Selena Musk has said that the
new anti government's plan to lower the age of criminal
responsibility to ten will not only fail to deliver short
term outcomes for community safety, but could exasperate violent crime
(07:28):
in years to come. What's your response to.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
That, Well, I just don't know what fact that's based on.
I mean, at the end of the day, we had
a system where no one was held accountable, violent crime escalated,
domestic violence escalated. We've seen everything get worse, not better,
and labor have been there weakening the laws and disempowering
our police flat out over the last eight years. So
I don't subscribe to that view. And ultimately, we have
(07:54):
a very clear mandate to deliver this reform. Territorians have
a right to expect us to deliver it. Our commitments
and we will not make any apologies for delivering one.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I mean it does look as though you're going to
get a significant amount of pressure on that change. Are
you going to forge your head regardless?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Absolutely, And you know political commentators can commentate. My job
is not to commentate. My job is to deliver a
safer territory and that's what we promise and that's what.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
We'll do, Chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Do you know if we've got many people in youth
detention at the moment in the Northern.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Territory, it tends to fluctuate. My understanding is it's between
twenty to thirty. But of course we've got so much
of Labour's mess to clean up. Look at the new
youth detention facility. I mean that's still not open.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well that was going to be my next question. Is
it operational yet?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
No?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Absolutely not, So we're still not operational. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I thought there was a.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Media event a couple of weeks before the election basically
saying that it had been or like a month before
the election saying it had been finished.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Look, Katie, I hate to break it to you, but
there was a lot of rubbish talked by Labor in
the lead up to the election.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Look, no, it's not finished. At all.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
We are pushing very hard for November, but as you
can see, that's still an entire month.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Are we waiting exactly? What are we waiting?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
In all seriousness?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Do you not?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It's just bits and pieces that you know, perhaps the
scope wasn't right. I don't know the detail, but it's
just a few bits and pieces to make it safe
enough for the Use to be in there. And ultimately,
you know, the trades are pulling their hair out as
much as corrections as much as we are.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Kadie, is it going to be difficult to get it open? Though?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Now at this point when you made also that promise
that you're going to change the management from being with
territory families to going across to corrections.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
No, that's already happens. We've already delivered that commitment. You
have it done. It's done you. Justice is part of So.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Who have we got in corrections?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Who have we got in don Dale? The don Dale
Detention Center?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Now?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Have we got correction stuff rather than territory family stuff?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Well, they've all come across. So there's two use justice offices.
And we were always very clear. I know Labor tried
to scare among us saying that we'd be putting kids
in a youth system in an adult system.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
That was never the case.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
We're always going to have appropriate level offices dealing with that.
But it's about being part of a correctional framework and
also supporting those youth justice workers with the powers and
the backup that they need to It's a tough job,
an absolutely tough job. So yeah, we can't wait to
have the new facility open, and we are currently working
(10:14):
poor corrections. I mean, they are just have been treated
so badly in terms of you know, we know that
our police have our watchhouses.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Full of prisoners. They're over full.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So we're doing a very urgent piece of work around
finding every available option of what we can do in
the short, medium and long term, which of course includes
our boot camps and our women's prisons. But we need
beds yesterday, Katie, and there's no getting around that, Lea.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
That is a question that we get asked almost weekly.
When are some of those bush camps going to get
up and running? Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks we
should have a really good announcement for everyone on our
entire plan for corrections I'd really like the community to
understand all of the moving pieces, because there will be many.
We've got three or four watchhouses being used to house prisoners.
I've got different facilities around the territory that could be used.
So we're currently working over time to finalize that and
(11:08):
then we will come out to the community and say, right,
these are the tough decisions we've had to make.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
This is the plan now.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Look. One of the other really big issues over recent
days is the fact that it was being reported that
lawyers at the territory's largest government legal agency, int Legal Aid,
are preparing to wind back criminal services from the end
of the month, with all adult contested mentions and hearings
to be halted by January. The issue revolves around funding.
(11:35):
From my understanding, have you been in talks with Legal
Aid and what is the latest.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I haven't directly, but I did go to Canberra as
part of National Cabinet just a couple of weeks after
the election, and my job there was to fight for
a fairer share for the territory of that Legal Aid funding,
which a large portion.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Of it comes from the Commonwealth government.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Now, we haven't been successful in securing needs based funding
and part of the problem is the neglect of the
previous eight years of the former government obviously, so yeah,
there are messes everywhere I turn, Katie, but ultimately having
strong legal aid services and NAGA are very important. This
is about access to justice, not just for offenders who
(12:15):
need that representation, but for victims. If the court process
is blocked, victims aren't getting well.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
If that's a massive concern.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
That's something that I see as being a massive concern,
and everybody does to serve the right to be represented.
I know that the Law Society of the Northern Territory
is calling upon both the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory
governments to immediately address this funding issue.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
What are the next steps from your perspective.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
We'll continue our negotiations in good faith with the federal government.
We really hope they'll come to the table and understand
our plight, particularly with NAGAR. I mean that has been
suffering dysfunction for a very very long time and the
Federal government has a role to play there. So there's
a lot to work through, but we know that to
have as strong and save community, we need to have
(13:02):
a strong, robust leader.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
This is the thing and we know at the moment
as well, we've got a heck of a lot of
prisoners on remand we've even got a situation bit while
the head of the Criminal Lawyers Association telling the paper
prison population remand rates are at an all time high
and on the rise. You know, the legislation that you're introducing,
I do think is what the community expects.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But how are you going to juggle that?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Then, if we've got prisons that are as we've spoken
about so many times even before the election, that are overflowing,
it takes a long long time to build more prisons.
And then if people aren't actually getting that legal representation
and victims are feeling like their cases aren't even going
to court when they should be.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Like, it's a.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Massive issue because there's many leavers, there's many parts to it.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So it's one thing to give police extra powers.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
You then need to support the courts and corrections to
go with it so that it's a seamless process and
that work is being done.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You know, I just I don't have a quick answer
on that.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Unfortunately, it's been too bigger ingrained problem, but we are
getting through it, and so our immediate point is that
we have to stop the bleed, We have to make
people safe, We have to deal with police powers. Our
second point then is dealing with the corrections mess, and
the Attorney General is working through Access to Justice. So
I think we can get some quick wins on the
board with corrections. For example, there are other cottages that
(14:20):
need some reparation work in Alice Springs that would then
bring online about ninety six beds, so we will be
able to pull a number of leavers to get the
space that we need soon, while we then go ahead
and build those new new adult beds and look, like
I said, I look forward to announcing that comprehensive plan
because I think it will there is a number of
(14:42):
leavers on it that will require explanation to the community.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Leah.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Before I let you go, a quick question from Jerry
Wood this morning. He said, Hi, Katie, will Leah send
her new legislation to scrutiny committee.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
We won't be this is this legislation will be put
through the Parliament in the first two weeks as we promised.
But we're very committed, as Jerry notes, to having those
proper parliamentary processes, and so we will also be making
sure that we brief the opposition and the new Crossbench,
because we really want them to understand the detail of
(15:14):
those laws as at the end of the day, they
represent their.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Communities as Look, I know some people might sort of
not really understand what a scrutiny committee does and not
really care whether it goes through a scrutiny committee or not.
But I suppose there will be others that are going
We'll hang on a seat. We're introducing some pretty significant
legislation here that could see a lot more people behind bars.
Should it be scrutinized more heavily, Well, I.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Think because we've had the election period, it's been very
heavily scrutinized. I mean we've talked about it and promoted
it right across the territory. In detail, we're delivering on
what we said we would do going forward. We have
no plans to be pushing legislation through as fast as
we have to do in the next two weeks. But as
I said, this is crisis management for a crisis response,
(15:57):
and we believe we have the mandate of the Territorians
to deliver on this, and in fact, there is a
community expectation that we must do it well.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, good to speak with you this morning.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Thanks so much here, Thank you,
We know that there is a lot going on this morning,
particularly when we look at the new government and some
of the legislation that is set to be introduced to
Parliament next week. In the studio with me this morning,
it is the Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro. Good morning too,
Good morning Katie and to your listeners, great to have
you on the show. Now. I understand there has been
some movement on the introduction of Declan's Law when Parliament
(00:21):
sits next week.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
What's the latest.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
So we've been working really hard over the last six
weeks to make sure we can deliver on all of
our election commitments to Territorians. Around that first sittings of Parliament,
we always said there was a crime crisis and it
needed a crisis response, which is why it's going to
be a jam pack two weeks of new powers for
police and a real focus on crime reduction. So we're
(00:44):
very proud that the flagship of all of those laws
is going to be Declan's Law. And I'm even prouder
to have Samara Lavity, Declan's mum, coming to Darwin, to
be able to witness all of her courageous and passionate
fight for Territorians to be safe and come into fruition.
So it's going to be a big two weeks, so
hold on to your hats.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
But it's the start of more to come.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
You know, this is not going to be laws that
create the silver bullet to all crime. It's about stemming
the tide or stopping the bleed. It's about giving our
police the powers they need and delivering on those commitments.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Well, I think it's also the expectation of the community.
And I know that there will be people who have
concerns around some of that legislation. I'll get to some
of that shortly, but it is the expectation.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Of the community.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
You came in on a mandate to deliver on reducing
the rates of crime, and that's what we all expect
to see.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
With Decklan's law.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I know that what it's going to mean is that
there'll be a presumption against bail for youth and adult
serious violent offenders. How is that going to work? I
guess for our listeners this morning to really understand what
that's going to mean to them and how it impacts
their life.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, that's a great question, Katie, and you're absolutely right.
People we said we would reduce crime. People voted for
us to reduce crime, and we're just getting on with
the job. There is no second guessing that we are
plowing ahead. So Declan's law specifically does a number of
things that a bunch of it relates to bail and
a chunk of it relates to knife crime. So if
I talk to bail, what this will mean is people
(02:11):
who are serious violent offenders, they're going to come to
court at that first opportunity they get to court, and
they will be on the back foot. They will have
a much higher threshold threshold and so will the judges
of going through the criteria of hang on, is this
person going to present an ongoing risk to our community?
Speaker 4 (02:29):
And that's what we want.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
We want more scrutiny over these people and less of
them bailed, essentially is what it's about. So a much
higher test, much stronger position for the victim the prosecution,
and so we hope and we know that that will
result in less people being bailed.
Speaker 4 (02:47):
It's also going to mean there will be.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
A presumption, sorry, a breach of bowl condition will now
be an offense. So that was removed by Labor. So
whether you're an adult offender or a youth offender. If
you were out on bail, which means you've been given
us second chance by the courts to do the right thing,
and you go and break the law again, that will
be a chargeable offense. You'll be brought back before the courts.
So that's two parts of it that. There's another part
(03:12):
of it, which will mean that for people who are
repeat serious violent offenders or violent offenders, if they've had
two of those types offenses in the last two years,
they will be regarded as a repeat offender, which again
means that they will start on the back foot. And
I just want to add that if, even though the
threshold is going to be so much higher, if the
courts find a way of bailing these people despite the
(03:36):
very clear laws and guidance we're providing, then the courts
will have to put electronic monitoring on them. So there's
a double backstep. It's a backup, right It sounds also.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
You're sort of putting the courts on notice.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, we are, because at the end of the day,
the people, the members of Parliament are elected by the people.
The Parliament creates the laws that meets the people's expectation.
The courts and the judges are there to implement the laws.
So my job is Minister to make sure that the
territory's laws meet community expectation and the rest should follow.
And if it doesn't, we'll come back to Parliament and
we'll just keep going. Katie, there's you know, you don't
(04:10):
have to stop once and we're not going to set
this stuff and forget and say, oh, well I ticked
off my election commitment.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
That's done.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
This doesn't end here, it starts here, and that's what's
so important for people to understand.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Now it is just one of the legislative changes that
are going to be introduced. We also know that you
are looking at these new posting and boasting laws.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, it's an offense.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It will become an offense and it will see a
penalty of up to two years jail. Again, how is
this going to work in a practical sense, because sometimes
you've got, you know, a group of people committing a crime.
How do you know who's posting it or who's behind it.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
Yeah, we spend a lot of time looking at how
other jurisdictions do this because it's to some extent an
emerging area of law.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
But we think we've hit the right spot.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
So in Queensland, for example, posting and boasting is attached
to ram raid, so you can only be charged with
posting and boasting if you've done a ram rain. What
we've decided to do is have it as a standalone
a fence, so that applies to a broader range of laws,
and that also means it's not necessarily the person committing
the crime. So for example, property damage is one of
(05:14):
the laws that it will apply to. So if you're
not the person committing the property damage, but it's your
mate and you're standing there filming it live into TikTok
or whatever these platforms are and boasting about it and
saying look at us, you know stuff you cops, whatever
it might be, then that person can be charged.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
They might not be able to be charged for the property.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
Damage because they didn't do it, but they could be
charged with the posting and boasting. So it just gives
greater flexibility for our police and we'll have to watch
it and make sure it's working. But we wanted it
to be bigger than just ram rates, which we also
have new legislation for.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Look, I think it's a good idea. Some of what
we've seen out of Ella Springs, for example, is being crazy.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
But do you think it'll.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Work in a practical sense, Like, do you think that
it will actually mean that people are heard from committing
that offense?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
That is certainly our goal, CADI. So laws have a
number of things that they do. They meet a community
expectation or a standard of behavior is set, They deliver.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
A consequence for people who don't meet the community's.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Standard of behavior, and they act as a deterrent from
people breaking the law in the first place.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
Right. So this is the.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Aim of all of these laws, and you know it'll
take time for some of them to build up and
people to be aware that we're serious about it, because
of course, for eight long years we've had a very
permissive system where crime has been free flowing and even
supported effectively. So we've got to unwind a big mess
and turn this ship around. But we're very committed to it,
(06:41):
and this reform is a first step in what will
be a bigger piece of work.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Look, I can see that there's going to be a
lot on the agenda for next week. There's going to
be so much on the agenda when it comes to
the introduction of legislation. As I said earlier, I think
it is you know, the government's been elected with this
mandate to try to get this thing under control. One
of the changes, though, that you are looking at is
(07:06):
is again lowering the criminal age of responsibility from twelve
to ten, and it has been met with criticism. I
know the Children's Commissioner Selena Musk has said that the
new anti government's plan to lower the age of criminal
responsibility to ten will not only fail to deliver short
term outcomes for community safety, but could exasperate violent crime
(07:28):
in years to come. What's your response to.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
That, Well, I just don't know what fact that's based on.
I mean, at the end of the day, we had
a system where no one was held accountable, violent crime escalated,
domestic violence escalated. We've seen everything get worse, not better,
and labor have been there weakening the laws and disempowering
our police flat out over the last eight years. So
I don't subscribe to that view. And ultimately, we have
(07:54):
a very clear mandate to deliver this reform. Territorians have
a right to expect us to deliver it. Our commitments
and we will not make any apologies for delivering one.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I mean it does look as though you're going to
get a significant amount of pressure on that change. Are
you going to forge your head regardless?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Absolutely, And you know political commentators can commentate. My job
is not to commentate. My job is to deliver a
safer territory and that's what we promise and that's what.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
We'll do, Chief Minister.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Do you know if we've got many people in youth
detention at the moment in the Northern.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Territory, it tends to fluctuate. My understanding is it's between
twenty to thirty. But of course we've got so much
of Labour's mess to clean up. Look at the new
youth detention facility. I mean that's still not open.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Well that was going to be my next question. Is
it operational yet?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
No?
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Absolutely not, So we're still not operational. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I thought there was a.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Media event a couple of weeks before the election basically
saying that it had been or like a month before
the election saying it had been finished.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Look, Katie, I hate to break it to you, but
there was a lot of rubbish talked by Labor in
the lead up to the election.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
Look, no, it's not finished. At all.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
We are pushing very hard for November, but as you
can see, that's still an entire month.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Are we waiting exactly? What are we waiting?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
In all seriousness?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Do you not?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
It's just bits and pieces that you know, perhaps the
scope wasn't right. I don't know the detail, but it's
just a few bits and pieces to make it safe
enough for the Use to be in there. And ultimately,
you know, the trades are pulling their hair out as
much as corrections as much as we are.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Kadie, is it going to be difficult to get it open? Though?
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Now at this point when you made also that promise
that you're going to change the management from being with
territory families to going across to corrections.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
No, that's already happens. We've already delivered that commitment. You
have it done. It's done you. Justice is part of So.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Who have we got in corrections?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Who have we got in don Dale? The don Dale
Detention Center?
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Now?
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Have we got correction stuff rather than territory family stuff?
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Well, they've all come across. So there's two use justice offices.
And we were always very clear. I know Labor tried
to scare among us saying that we'd be putting kids
in a youth system in an adult system.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
That was never the case.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
We're always going to have appropriate level offices dealing with that.
But it's about being part of a correctional framework and
also supporting those youth justice workers with the powers and
the backup that they need to It's a tough job,
an absolutely tough job. So yeah, we can't wait to
have the new facility open, and we are currently working
(10:14):
poor corrections. I mean, they are just have been treated
so badly in terms of you know, we know that
our police have our watchhouses.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Full of prisoners. They're over full.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So we're doing a very urgent piece of work around
finding every available option of what we can do in
the short, medium and long term, which of course includes
our boot camps and our women's prisons. But we need
beds yesterday, Katie, and there's no getting around that, Lea.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
That is a question that we get asked almost weekly.
When are some of those bush camps going to get
up and running? Yep.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
So I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks we
should have a really good announcement for everyone on our
entire plan for corrections I'd really like the community to
understand all of the moving pieces, because there will be many.
We've got three or four watchhouses being used to house prisoners.
I've got different facilities around the territory that could be used.
So we're currently working over time to finalize that and
(11:08):
then we will come out to the community and say, right,
these are the tough decisions we've had to make.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
This is the plan now.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Look. One of the other really big issues over recent
days is the fact that it was being reported that
lawyers at the territory's largest government legal agency, int Legal Aid,
are preparing to wind back criminal services from the end
of the month, with all adult contested mentions and hearings
to be halted by January. The issue revolves around funding.
(11:35):
From my understanding, have you been in talks with Legal
Aid and what is the latest.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
I haven't directly, but I did go to Canberra as
part of National Cabinet just a couple of weeks after
the election, and my job there was to fight for
a fairer share for the territory of that Legal Aid funding,
which a large portion.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Of it comes from the Commonwealth government.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Now, we haven't been successful in securing needs based funding
and part of the problem is the neglect of the
previous eight years of the former government obviously, so yeah,
there are messes everywhere I turn, Katie, but ultimately having
strong legal aid services and NAGA are very important. This
is about access to justice, not just for offenders who
(12:15):
need that representation, but for victims. If the court process
is blocked, victims aren't getting well.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
If that's a massive concern.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
That's something that I see as being a massive concern,
and everybody does to serve the right to be represented.
I know that the Law Society of the Northern Territory
is calling upon both the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory
governments to immediately address this funding issue.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
What are the next steps from your perspective.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
We'll continue our negotiations in good faith with the federal government.
We really hope they'll come to the table and understand
our plight, particularly with NAGAR. I mean that has been
suffering dysfunction for a very very long time and the
Federal government has a role to play there. So there's
a lot to work through, but we know that to
have as strong and save community, we need to have
(13:02):
a strong, robust leader.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
This is the thing and we know at the moment
as well, we've got a heck of a lot of
prisoners on remand we've even got a situation bit while
the head of the Criminal Lawyers Association telling the paper
prison population remand rates are at an all time high
and on the rise. You know, the legislation that you're introducing,
I do think is what the community expects.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
But how are you going to juggle that?
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Then, if we've got prisons that are as we've spoken
about so many times even before the election, that are overflowing,
it takes a long long time to build more prisons.
And then if people aren't actually getting that legal representation
and victims are feeling like their cases aren't even going
to court when they should be.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Like, it's a.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Massive issue because there's many leavers, there's many parts to it.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
So it's one thing to give police extra powers.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
You then need to support the courts and corrections to
go with it so that it's a seamless process and
that work is being done.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
You know, I just I don't have a quick answer
on that.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Unfortunately, it's been too bigger ingrained problem, but we are
getting through it, and so our immediate point is that
we have to stop the bleed, We have to make
people safe, We have to deal with police powers. Our
second point then is dealing with the corrections mess, and
the Attorney General is working through Access to Justice. So
I think we can get some quick wins on the
board with corrections. For example, there are other cottages that
(14:20):
need some reparation work in Alice Springs that would then
bring online about ninety six beds, so we will be
able to pull a number of leavers to get the
space that we need soon, while we then go ahead
and build those new new adult beds and look, like
I said, I look forward to announcing that comprehensive plan
because I think it will there is a number of
(14:42):
leavers on it that will require explanation to the community.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Leah.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Before I let you go, a quick question from Jerry
Wood this morning. He said, Hi, Katie, will Leah send
her new legislation to scrutiny committee.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
We won't be this is this legislation will be put
through the Parliament in the first two weeks as we promised.
But we're very committed, as Jerry notes, to having those
proper parliamentary processes, and so we will also be making
sure that we brief the opposition and the new Crossbench,
because we really want them to understand the detail of
(15:14):
those laws as at the end of the day, they
represent their.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Communities as Look, I know some people might sort of
not really understand what a scrutiny committee does and not
really care whether it goes through a scrutiny committee or not.
But I suppose there will be others that are going
We'll hang on a seat. We're introducing some pretty significant
legislation here that could see a lot more people behind bars.
Should it be scrutinized more heavily, Well, I.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Think because we've had the election period, it's been very
heavily scrutinized. I mean we've talked about it and promoted
it right across the territory. In detail, we're delivering on
what we said we would do going forward. We have
no plans to be pushing legislation through as fast as
we have to do in the next two weeks. But as
I said, this is crisis management for a crisis response,
(15:57):
and we believe we have the mandate of the Territorians
to deliver on this, and in fact, there is a
community expectation that we must do it well.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, good to speak with you this morning.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Thanks so much here, Thank you,
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