Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joining me in the studio. He's the Chief Minister of
the Northern Territory leof and oki ara O.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Good morning to you, Good onning Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Chief Minister a little later this morning because you have
been at the flag racing for Nadok Week. How did
it go?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Yeah, it was really awesome Larichia Nation and everyone involved
did a great job. There were beautiful dances from the
Teewee Islanders and it was a lovely cake and just
everyone getting together. It's fifty years of NYOK this week,
so there's going to be plenty happening and I just
ourge everyone to get involved and celebrate the achievements.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, and how wonderful to see Michael Law obviously recognized
on a national stage. He's an absolute superstar. I think
it's really wonderful that he has been recognized and safe
to say that everybody in the Northern Territory are very
proud of his achievements.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, legend on and off the field. Absolutely. But shout
out to Daniel Ponta. She got sports Personal Larissa, Sorry,
Carissa Benjamin and Troy her husband from Black Brew they
won the Innovation Award and Professor Eddie Cabilo education. So
for out standing territories at a national level, it's a
(01:03):
great weak to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It, certainly, certainly is now I do want to move
along to something we're just talking about a moment ago
and well, the government last week revealing details of changes
to the Youth Justice Act, announcing new measures that you
say going to ensure serious young offenders face real consequences.
So these amendements to the Youth Justice Regulations of two
(01:24):
thousand and six will expand the list of serious offenses
that are ineligible for youth diversion. Chief Minister, what offenses
are now going to be included?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, this is a really important piece of reform that
came from frontline police and that's really important for us
as a government to be listening and responding to what works.
Now all of your listeners would have read in the
paper or listened to U Katie saying, ex crime happened
and police return the youth to a responsible adult. Now
there'll be thousands of people listening right now cringing at
(01:55):
that very expression.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
This deals with that. So it still gives police.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
The discretion to divert if they think it's appropriate. But
what it does do is mean that thirteen more offenses
are on that list where police can proceed straight to
charge and remand which is important. So we're talking about
serious harm, hit and runs, driving, stall and motor vehicles, assault,
frontline workers, home break ins.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
All of the crimes you.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Would expect that police should be able to deliver a
consequence are now going to be crystallized.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean the Attorney General revealed on the show on
Friday last week that previously a person accused of a
violent act causing death was eligible for diversion.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeap, is that the case?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And I mean really does that pass any kind of
brometer that the people of the Northern Territory would think
is acceptable?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Of course not.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And again this is just the web of weak laws
that were left behind by a labor government that disempowered
our police and quite frankly made young people believe they
were above the law because they were. I mean, if
you commit a serious crime, even you know, stealing a vehicle,
ramming a police car, and then the same police office
who's been rammed has to drive that kid home and
drop them off to a quote unquote responsible adult. I mean,
(03:06):
it doesn't get more demoralizing and frustrating than that, Katie.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So this plugs that gap.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And let's not forget We've got our Youth Justice Act
rewrite parts one and two finalizing, so part one will
be July for September, and then the second part will
be into early next year. Plus Bail Act plus traffic Acts,
so there's plenty more happening. I'm not saying it's job done,
but this is a big.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Part Chief Beness.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So, the Justice Reform Initiative executive director Mindy so Tierri
joined us on the show just a little while ago.
She said that there should be alternatives to incarceration and
pointed to the fact that you know, they believe three
hundred million dollars should be invested into those alternatives. I mean,
should we have other diversion programs and other programs that
(03:50):
young people are able to undertake before they get to
the point where they need to go to jail.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, of course, and in a perfect world you and
have all of that, but it doesn't exist. It takes
a long time to create, and ultimately some things are
just so serious that the police have to intervene and
young people have to be put before the court. Now,
this gives a better balance for our police to make
those decisions at the time. And like I said, everyone
is absolutely exhausted by the term, you know, dropped home
(04:17):
to a responsible adult. It's part of our commitment to
give police better powers to reduce crime and support us
safeer territory. And so at the end of the day,
we have to hold young people and their parents accountable.
It allows us to intervene then, because just picture this.
If a police officer takes home a young person who's
stolen a vehicle, driven it dangerously through the streets, rammed
other cars, and just drop them home to an adult,
(04:39):
There's nothing happens after that point, there's no follow up,
there's nothing. So if police are then able to proceed
to charge, at least a process happens and then that
person could be sentenced, they could be diverted from.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That asying is.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Right now, we've got like, how often would you say
that it is happening that you've got kids that are
committing what many people would see as being really quite
serious offenses and then they're just being dropped home.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, too many.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I mean, you know, I read about it in the
media like everybody else as well. So this is thirteen
of the most serious but also the most frequent that
police interact with and will continue to monitor.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
If there needs to be more, we'll put more on
the list.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So can I ask, Chief Minister? Has the legislation changed
shit which means that young offenders get to choose if
they undertake diversion programs or not.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
This is a big thing to this as well.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Is while it's great to have, you know, many people
will see it has been great to have the list
of serious offenses obviously expanded and young people committing serious
crimes not just dropped home. But the fact here is that,
you know, it's still, in a lot of ways not
mandatory to make a young person actually take part in
(05:48):
any kind of diversion.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Program one hundred percent, and that's coming up in July.
So that's in our first tranch of reforms. I'm pretty confident.
I'll double check, but it's definitely We've had to split
our use justice a review and too, so I'm pretty
sure it falls into one. But either way, that was
our commitment and it is being done. We're working on
it right now.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Are there actually diversion programs running outside of you know,
outside of correction facilities? Right now correctional facility.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
There there are, and they run by children and families.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And so what we did on coming to government is
renew all of those contracts for twelve months that we
could have time to evaluate them. I think it's safe
to say, Katie that some will not be renewed after
that point because we will be finding them ineffective and
not achieving any KPIs. Others might be strengthened, or new
ones might come online. And that's a really important part
of what we've got to do over the next few months.
(06:37):
And that work has already been ongoing. But currently police
can issue a written warning and oral warning. You know,
it's it's all pretty weak and I just don't think
it meets anyone's expectations and it drives our police mad
so well.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And something that you and I have spoken about before is,
you know, we have got some families who have a
young person who's gone off rails, right, and they're trying
to do everything they can to get them back on track.
But I've been told on numerous occasions that there's really
no support, no help for some of those families. I
just had a message come through a short time ago
saying we had a thirteen year old family member caught
(07:11):
in a break and ter and was put on youth diversion.
It was nothing, absolutely nothing happened, not a thing. Youth
diversion has been an epic failure, says that person.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, I hear you, and I've spoken to many families
like that as well, Katie, and that's why we've got
to look at it. I think diversion sounds really good,
and if you're an activist, it's very easy to come
on radio or in the media and you know, belittle
what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
But diversion isn't.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
What it's cracked up to be, and a lot of
the time it just isn't really anything of substance at all.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So we've got to fix that.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
On that last week, we know, a Northern Territory judge
described the state of the Northern Territories justice system as
not therapeutic in any way, as courts struggled to manage
rising remand rates and strict bail laws. So according to
this report by the ABC, data provided by int Corst
shows the number of listings in the youth justice courts
(08:03):
in the last financial year was almost nineteen thousand the
average romand time for young peoples now fifty one days.
During a bail hearing for a young person charged with
serious offenses, the judge said a combination of tough bail
laws and a lack of funding for alternatives to custody
meant that children were being left to languish. The judge
(08:23):
denied the youth bail, though, saying that this person needed
intensive support which was not available, noting it was a
very unfortunate situation. I mean, do we need more intensive
support or do you think that jail is the best
place for some of these young people?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, unfortunately it is. And again this is a leftover legacy.
You know, labor were pretending there were all these programs
out there changing everyone's lives, and yet we were watching
crime escalate more than ever before. So it didn't stack
up right, And this is exactly what's happening, which is
why we're evaluating the programs. But we've just brought online
in Alice Springs our Paperbark Facility, which is a rem
(09:00):
center and what we'll develop into a boot camp for
young people. We have to give the judiciary confidence to
sentence people to the new facilities we're building.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But we're very committed to that.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
But again, you know, in the adult space, and I
read out the data a couple of months ago, Katie,
I don't have it on me, but we've actually had
more adult prisoners go through programs and therapeutic supports in
our term of government than Labor did in the previous year.
And that's with all the strain, that's with six hundred
extra prisoners, us having to bring online hundreds more beds.
(09:30):
So we are deeply committed to this because we want
repeat offending driving down, we want people making better choice.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, just like when you.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Talk about youth offenders and you know, and people really
pushing back saying that they shouldn't go into into correctional facilities.
When they are in correctional facilities, are they undertaking diversion programs?
And can you give us an example of what kind
of thing they might be doing while they're in attention.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So here in Darwin, we've just finished off the new
Youth Justice for which, oh god, cost about one hundred
and fifty million I think in the end, and so
that is a very luxurious facility to say the least,
and they're given huge amounts of opportunity to engage in recreation,
in behavior, change all of those different types of things. Now,
(10:17):
there are people who never want to see young people
in prison, and quite frankly, we all never want to
see kids.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
We don't want to see them committing cross.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Exactly, that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And when they do, and they present a persistent risk
to the community, they must be dealt with and they
must be held accountable, and so must their parents. So
at the end of the day, this is not a
perfect world. There will never be a day where there's
no prisons. And to all of the activists and do
good is where were you when labor was in government?
And you know, take a few of these kids home
yourself and see how easy it Isn't right? This is
(10:47):
not straightforward stuff. It's easy to say, oh, poor thirteen
year old, when that thirteen year old is a serious
violent offender, sex offender.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
You name it.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You know, what options does the government have other than
to put the rights of its people to be safe first.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
What do you say then, to those in the community
who still say that jailing is failing and you're not
making an impact when it comes to crime, Well.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I just ignore them, Katie.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Quite frankly, I mean, like I said, take a few
of these kids home and see how rosy they are.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I mean, it's just a joke. It's just an absolute joke.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
This is just anti CLP rhetoric from a core group
of people who are trying to run us down. But
we are doing everything we can in the ten short
months we've been in government to change the laws, back
our police in, make the streets safer, and there are
improvements happening, and we've just got to keep doing that
work because Katie, if Labour's model worked, we would not
(11:38):
be the government because crime would not have been out
of control.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And it wasn't working.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It failed miserably, and we now have a job to
do on behalf of the people of the Northern Territory
and we are seeing that through all right.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Later this morning, in about an hour, we are expecting
the handing down of the coronial findings into the death
of Kumen Jai Walker. It's happening in you and Demu,
so we can't preempt those findings.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
But what is your plan?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Want to see those findings?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, today will be the much awaited I mean, this
is six years after the incident happened, three years of
this coronial dragging on. I think everyone wants to see
it come to an end, and ultimately, you know, I
don't know how much of it will actually still be
relevant today, given how long it's taken. I mean, the
police force has changed so much in six years. So
Acting Commissioner Dole is in nuendumud today to be there
(12:28):
for the findings, and police will obviously go through and
as a government, we will look at the recommendations and
be very open about which ones we accept and which
ones we won't, and which ones would have been done
already I imagine, given the level of reform over the
last half decade.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
But it'll be good to bring this to a close
for everyone.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Sounds like you are sort of preempting that there may
be some kind of finding of systemic racism within the
Northern Territory Police Force, and I mean you've already seen it. Obviously,
there's been changes within the force as it is, So
how seriously would you take a finding like that?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, I don't know that there will be, Katie, And
it's certainly not my experience. And I get around and
speak to a lot of police, a lot of officers,
and I mean we've just had nineteen. You know, Aboriginal
liaison officers and Aboriginal community police officers transition to constable.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You know, there's a lot of work being done, but
we just have to see what it says.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I think the best part about all of it is
that draws this chapter to a close, which is what
everyone needs to be able to move on.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And you know, we will learn the lessons that need
to be.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Learned, and we'll respect respectfully tell the coroner that we
disagree where we disagree, and we'll move forward.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Chief Minister. A listener question in relation to power prices. Now,
Marian has messaged in Virginia and she said, Katie, people
in rural areas pay for power to get water from
the boar. Then water has to be pumped into tanks.
Then every time we turn on the tap, the pump
comes on. We've also got to pay for power for
the septic system. Most of us grow at least some
(13:55):
fruit and veg for our own use and share with
family and friends. She said, it is warmer obviously in
the rural areas. She's concerned. Like at the heart of this,
she and others in the rural area are quite concerned
that they are going to be referred to as super
users of power using over fifty five killer what's a day?
(14:17):
She is saying, are you able to respectfully ask the
Chief Minister's team to reconsider a slightly higher threshold for
rural residents? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Okay, And we certainly don't want, you know, rural people
or any particular suburb for example, to be disproportionately affected
by the change. So we have tried to strike a
balance based on the advice about what is you know,
some people might call excessive usage or super usage, but
completely understand the different power needs. You know where you are,
(14:50):
so I think you had someone from Jacana on last
week Katie sort of explained that it is very high
levels and when not charging everyone the higher rate for
all power, it's just the power over the fifty five.
But there's six months to go, so we're going to
reach out to all those people. Jacana will be contacting
regular superusers, So if you intermittently pop over that amount,
(15:13):
they won't contact you. But if you know that you
do intimately go over that level, please reach out to
them or to us so we can better understand your usage.
But everyone will be contacted and we'll go through a process.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So is it something that you'll consider a slightly higher
threshold potentially for rural residents.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Look, I won't rule it out.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I don't want to inflate false hope and promises either, right,
So I guess what I'm saying is we need to
move towards more sustainable electricity grid. And obviously we're really
conscious with costs of living around prices.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So but I want people to feel heard.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I completely understand that if you're on five or ten
acres out in Humpty Doo, it's a completely different proposition
to six hundred square meters in the car, right, So
I'm very conscious of that, and we do want to
hear from people.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
All right, Chief Minister. The Northern Territory government today announcing
one hundred two new homes are going to be built
across the Northern Territory. We know that the waiting times
for public housing up to eight to ten years for
a safe, secure place to call home for some people. Look,
I think that this is a really good move. Nobody
(16:16):
would dispute that for those that genuinely need a home
through public housing. But look, the thing that we hear
about almost daily is horror tenants, and I want to
be really clear that not everybody in public housing is
a horror tenant. In fact, I've got some that live
up the road for me that are fantastic and you
never hear a peep from them. But in some cases
(16:39):
people have got horror tenants that they've had living next
door to them for an extended period of time and
nothing they can do about it. So as you bring
on one hundred and two new homes, how are you
going to ensure that people actually do the right bloody thing.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, exactly. It's exasperating for people in gosh. I've sat
in lounge rooms and outdoor areas with community members hearing
absolute gutching horror stories, Katie, to the point where people
have packed up and moved. So there's two parts to this.
One is our wait list is huge, and we have
vulnerable people who need and deserve a home, and what
we've got to do as a government is make sure
(17:10):
that people who deserve and will respect a home get one.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's what this one hundred and two houses will do.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Separate to that, and over the next couple of weeks,
I think in about four weeks time, we will have
our announcement around how we're managing behavior in public housing
because it does.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Not meet the expectation of the community.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And when you are given a house to support you
when you're vulnerable, there is a level of respect you
have to show to the amenity of your neighborhood and
to that house itself. It's not an endless bucket of
money for damage and repairs and maintenance or destruction and
antisocial behavior. But on top of that, I want to
remind everyone about our big announcement which's probably been lost
a little bit. But this reform we're doing with police,
(17:50):
by taking all the different layers of police auxiliary, all
the transit safety officers, and all the public housing safety officers,
training them up to be a new unified layer of
police is going to make a big difference. So when
you call housing to have a public housing safety officer
come around, it will be a fully you know, fully
(18:11):
trained police officer that comes instead, and that's going to
make a big difference.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well. Look, even over the weekend we had concerns raised
about a home on Harrison Circuit in woodrops Ye. Now
we are told since the tenant's moved in in December,
their lives have been a living hell the neighbors and
anticipation of what the next day might bring in regard
to their behavior and activity is you know, terrible for them.
(18:36):
This couple have been physically and verbally abused by various
members of the household and their friends for simply asking
to keep the noise down. The surrounding neighbors are also
concerned for their well being. They've been approached, you know,
over the last six months. Well, they've certainly approached the
authorities over the last six months. They say, you know,
(18:57):
it should like that they have they you know, they've
got concerns for the children's welfare as well at that home,
and they just feel like they're not being listening to.
I mean, this is just one sort of horror story,
if not thousands.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, no, no, absolutely, and we stand with the communities.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Who are exasperated by this.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
We've done a lot of reform within the agency already
and it's a big shift in mindset to how labor.
We just had this permissive approach to us having much
higher expectations of public housing tenants.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And again it's not everyone.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
There are beautiful people living in public housing, and rightfully so,
they're the people we have to make sure to have
a home and protect exactly and protect from visitors as well.
Sometimes it's not the homeowner, it's the visitors, and we've
got to get better at supporting them and intervening to
protect them and their home.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So there is lots of work to do there.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We hear people's frustration, and it's why we're doing the
police public safety offices. It's why we're cracking down on
this type of behavior. And it will get better over time,
and we're very conscious of the impact it's having on people.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, Chief, just another issue that I want to
ask you about before I let you go this morning.
It is well an issue which has shocked the nation.
A childcare worker in Victoria last week charged with more
than seventy offenses relating to allegations involving children. As a result,
the federal government's looking at reforms that would standardize working
with children checks across the country. Is this work going
(20:22):
to happen in the Northern Territory and are you keen
to take a closer look at the way in which
things are done in the Northern Territory to ensure that
we never ever ever see a situation like this one here?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
It is horrifying what's happened in Victoria, and so Minister
Joe Hersey is mobilized straight away on that. We're looking
at what happens here in the Northern Territory in terms
of our safeguards.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
But also we've put up our hands.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Straight away to work with the federal government as part
of establishing that national Working with Children clearance system. So
we have a you know, an OCA card system, but
there's a lot more that could be done. And I
think everyone you know understands the need to protect down
most vulnerable and the importance of parents and families having
that confidence to drop their child off at childcare knowing
they're going to be nurtured, loved and kept safe.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I know that the NT News reported last week that
more than one hundred centers across the INT have gone
years without an assessment by the Northern Territory Regulator. Is
that acceptable in your eyes? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I don't know the validity of that claim, So if
it's true, it's certainly not acceptable. But I just don't
understand the system well enough to comment directly. But what
people want is a robust system. They want to know
very the maximum amount that government can do is being
done and that the protections there are in place because people,
you know, we want people in the workforce, we want
(21:42):
people sending their kids to childcare to have that stimulation
with other children and activities and all of those things.
So it's an important part of life. But there's got
to be confidence that our kids are safe one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Just a really quick listener question, Hi, Katie, can you
ask the Chief Minister what is in the works to
move Vinnie's accommodation. Oh? Yeah, I cannot grow.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
That is all happening, so I can't say much. It
hasn't been finalized yet, but we've been working really hard
since coming to government on that because we know that
two year time frame.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
That clock is ticking.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So we're working with Vinni's Larichia Nation are a partner
in that project as well, and so we've been working
really closely with larik here around how they see the
best fit for that facility and location. So I'm hoping
in the next couple of months, certainly by the end
of the year I would have expected.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
We haven't announced it, so can you assure those listening
that they're not going to stay in that sporting Coca.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, that's certainly not our intention.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Now, whether it meets that two year time limit, I
don't know, but they'd have to explain that to the DCA,
not to government.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But we're working as fast as we.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Can to find an alternative solution, Chief Andness, So we're
gonna have to leave it there. I know your press
for time, and we've got to get across to pay
some bills with the ads before we go the news.
Thanks so much for joining us this morning.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Thank you everyone.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Thank you
Joining me in the studio. He's the Chief Minister of
the Northern Territory leof and oki ara O.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Good morning to you, Good onning Katie, and to your listeners.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Chief Minister a little later this morning because you have
been at the flag racing for Nadok Week. How did
it go?
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Yeah, it was really awesome Larichia Nation and everyone involved
did a great job. There were beautiful dances from the
Teewee Islanders and it was a lovely cake and just
everyone getting together. It's fifty years of NYOK this week,
so there's going to be plenty happening and I just
ourge everyone to get involved and celebrate the achievements.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yeah, and how wonderful to see Michael Law obviously recognized
on a national stage. He's an absolute superstar. I think
it's really wonderful that he has been recognized and safe
to say that everybody in the Northern Territory are very
proud of his achievements.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, legend on and off the field. Absolutely. But shout
out to Daniel Ponta. She got sports Personal Larissa, Sorry,
Carissa Benjamin and Troy her husband from Black Brew they
won the Innovation Award and Professor Eddie Cabilo education. So
for out standing territories at a national level, it's a
(01:03):
great weak to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
It, certainly, certainly is now I do want to move
along to something we're just talking about a moment ago
and well, the government last week revealing details of changes
to the Youth Justice Act, announcing new measures that you
say going to ensure serious young offenders face real consequences.
So these amendements to the Youth Justice Regulations of two
(01:24):
thousand and six will expand the list of serious offenses
that are ineligible for youth diversion. Chief Minister, what offenses
are now going to be included?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, this is a really important piece of reform that
came from frontline police and that's really important for us
as a government to be listening and responding to what works.
Now all of your listeners would have read in the
paper or listened to U Katie saying, ex crime happened
and police return the youth to a responsible adult. Now
there'll be thousands of people listening right now cringing at
(01:55):
that very expression.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
This deals with that. So it still gives police.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
The discretion to divert if they think it's appropriate. But
what it does do is mean that thirteen more offenses
are on that list where police can proceed straight to
charge and remand which is important. So we're talking about
serious harm, hit and runs, driving, stall and motor vehicles, assault,
frontline workers, home break ins.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
All of the crimes you.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Would expect that police should be able to deliver a
consequence are now going to be crystallized.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I mean the Attorney General revealed on the show on
Friday last week that previously a person accused of a
violent act causing death was eligible for diversion.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeap, is that the case?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
And I mean really does that pass any kind of
brometer that the people of the Northern Territory would think
is acceptable?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Of course not.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
And again this is just the web of weak laws
that were left behind by a labor government that disempowered
our police and quite frankly made young people believe they
were above the law because they were. I mean, if
you commit a serious crime, even you know, stealing a vehicle,
ramming a police car, and then the same police office
who's been rammed has to drive that kid home and
drop them off to a quote unquote responsible adult. I mean,
(03:06):
it doesn't get more demoralizing and frustrating than that, Katie.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
So this plugs that gap.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
And let's not forget We've got our Youth Justice Act
rewrite parts one and two finalizing, so part one will
be July for September, and then the second part will
be into early next year. Plus Bail Act plus traffic Acts,
so there's plenty more happening. I'm not saying it's job done,
but this is a big.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Part Chief Beness.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So, the Justice Reform Initiative executive director Mindy so Tierri
joined us on the show just a little while ago.
She said that there should be alternatives to incarceration and
pointed to the fact that you know, they believe three
hundred million dollars should be invested into those alternatives. I mean,
should we have other diversion programs and other programs that
(03:50):
young people are able to undertake before they get to
the point where they need to go to jail.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, of course, and in a perfect world you and
have all of that, but it doesn't exist. It takes
a long time to create, and ultimately some things are
just so serious that the police have to intervene and
young people have to be put before the court. Now,
this gives a better balance for our police to make
those decisions at the time. And like I said, everyone
is absolutely exhausted by the term, you know, dropped home
(04:17):
to a responsible adult. It's part of our commitment to
give police better powers to reduce crime and support us
safeer territory. And so at the end of the day,
we have to hold young people and their parents accountable.
It allows us to intervene then, because just picture this.
If a police officer takes home a young person who's
stolen a vehicle, driven it dangerously through the streets, rammed
other cars, and just drop them home to an adult,
(04:39):
There's nothing happens after that point, there's no follow up,
there's nothing. So if police are then able to proceed
to charge, at least a process happens and then that
person could be sentenced, they could be diverted from.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
That asying is.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Right now, we've got like, how often would you say
that it is happening that you've got kids that are
committing what many people would see as being really quite
serious offenses and then they're just being dropped home.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, too many.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I mean, you know, I read about it in the
media like everybody else as well. So this is thirteen
of the most serious but also the most frequent that
police interact with and will continue to monitor.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
If there needs to be more, we'll put more on
the list.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So can I ask, Chief Minister? Has the legislation changed
shit which means that young offenders get to choose if
they undertake diversion programs or not.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
This is a big thing to this as well.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Is while it's great to have, you know, many people
will see it has been great to have the list
of serious offenses obviously expanded and young people committing serious
crimes not just dropped home. But the fact here is that,
you know, it's still, in a lot of ways not
mandatory to make a young person actually take part in
(05:48):
any kind of diversion.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
Program one hundred percent, and that's coming up in July.
So that's in our first tranch of reforms. I'm pretty confident.
I'll double check, but it's definitely We've had to split
our use justice a review and too, so I'm pretty
sure it falls into one. But either way, that was
our commitment and it is being done. We're working on
it right now.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Are there actually diversion programs running outside of you know,
outside of correction facilities? Right now correctional facility.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
There there are, and they run by children and families.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
And so what we did on coming to government is
renew all of those contracts for twelve months that we
could have time to evaluate them. I think it's safe
to say, Katie that some will not be renewed after
that point because we will be finding them ineffective and
not achieving any KPIs. Others might be strengthened, or new
ones might come online. And that's a really important part
of what we've got to do over the next few months.
(06:37):
And that work has already been ongoing. But currently police
can issue a written warning and oral warning. You know,
it's it's all pretty weak and I just don't think
it meets anyone's expectations and it drives our police mad
so well.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And something that you and I have spoken about before is,
you know, we have got some families who have a
young person who's gone off rails, right, and they're trying
to do everything they can to get them back on track.
But I've been told on numerous occasions that there's really
no support, no help for some of those families. I
just had a message come through a short time ago
saying we had a thirteen year old family member caught
(07:11):
in a break and ter and was put on youth diversion.
It was nothing, absolutely nothing happened, not a thing. Youth
diversion has been an epic failure, says that person.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, I hear you, and I've spoken to many families
like that as well, Katie, and that's why we've got
to look at it. I think diversion sounds really good,
and if you're an activist, it's very easy to come
on radio or in the media and you know, belittle
what we're trying to do.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
But diversion isn't.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
What it's cracked up to be, and a lot of
the time it just isn't really anything of substance at all.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So we've got to fix that.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
On that last week, we know, a Northern Territory judge
described the state of the Northern Territories justice system as
not therapeutic in any way, as courts struggled to manage
rising remand rates and strict bail laws. So according to
this report by the ABC, data provided by int Corst
shows the number of listings in the youth justice courts
(08:03):
in the last financial year was almost nineteen thousand the
average romand time for young peoples now fifty one days.
During a bail hearing for a young person charged with
serious offenses, the judge said a combination of tough bail
laws and a lack of funding for alternatives to custody
meant that children were being left to languish. The judge
(08:23):
denied the youth bail, though, saying that this person needed
intensive support which was not available, noting it was a
very unfortunate situation. I mean, do we need more intensive
support or do you think that jail is the best
place for some of these young people?
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Well, unfortunately it is. And again this is a leftover legacy.
You know, labor were pretending there were all these programs
out there changing everyone's lives, and yet we were watching
crime escalate more than ever before. So it didn't stack
up right, And this is exactly what's happening, which is
why we're evaluating the programs. But we've just brought online
in Alice Springs our Paperbark Facility, which is a rem
(09:00):
center and what we'll develop into a boot camp for
young people. We have to give the judiciary confidence to
sentence people to the new facilities we're building.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But we're very committed to that.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
But again, you know, in the adult space, and I
read out the data a couple of months ago, Katie,
I don't have it on me, but we've actually had
more adult prisoners go through programs and therapeutic supports in
our term of government than Labor did in the previous year.
And that's with all the strain, that's with six hundred
extra prisoners, us having to bring online hundreds more beds.
(09:30):
So we are deeply committed to this because we want
repeat offending driving down, we want people making better choice.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, just like when you.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Talk about youth offenders and you know, and people really
pushing back saying that they shouldn't go into into correctional facilities.
When they are in correctional facilities, are they undertaking diversion programs?
And can you give us an example of what kind
of thing they might be doing while they're in attention.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So here in Darwin, we've just finished off the new
Youth Justice for which, oh god, cost about one hundred
and fifty million I think in the end, and so
that is a very luxurious facility to say the least,
and they're given huge amounts of opportunity to engage in recreation,
in behavior, change all of those different types of things. Now,
(10:17):
there are people who never want to see young people
in prison, and quite frankly, we all never want to
see kids.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
We don't want to see them committing cross.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Exactly, that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
And when they do, and they present a persistent risk
to the community, they must be dealt with and they
must be held accountable, and so must their parents. So
at the end of the day, this is not a
perfect world. There will never be a day where there's
no prisons. And to all of the activists and do
good is where were you when labor was in government?
And you know, take a few of these kids home
yourself and see how easy it Isn't right? This is
(10:47):
not straightforward stuff. It's easy to say, oh, poor thirteen
year old, when that thirteen year old is a serious
violent offender, sex offender.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
You name it.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
You know, what options does the government have other than
to put the rights of its people to be safe first.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
What do you say then, to those in the community
who still say that jailing is failing and you're not
making an impact when it comes to crime, Well.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I just ignore them, Katie.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Quite frankly, I mean, like I said, take a few
of these kids home and see how rosy they are.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I mean, it's just a joke. It's just an absolute joke.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
This is just anti CLP rhetoric from a core group
of people who are trying to run us down. But
we are doing everything we can in the ten short
months we've been in government to change the laws, back
our police in, make the streets safer, and there are
improvements happening, and we've just got to keep doing that
work because Katie, if Labour's model worked, we would not
(11:38):
be the government because crime would not have been out
of control.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
And it wasn't working.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It failed miserably, and we now have a job to
do on behalf of the people of the Northern Territory
and we are seeing that through all right.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Later this morning, in about an hour, we are expecting
the handing down of the coronial findings into the death
of Kumen Jai Walker. It's happening in you and Demu,
so we can't preempt those findings.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
But what is your plan?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Want to see those findings?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, today will be the much awaited I mean, this
is six years after the incident happened, three years of
this coronial dragging on. I think everyone wants to see
it come to an end, and ultimately, you know, I
don't know how much of it will actually still be
relevant today, given how long it's taken. I mean, the
police force has changed so much in six years. So
Acting Commissioner Dole is in nuendumud today to be there
(12:28):
for the findings, and police will obviously go through and
as a government, we will look at the recommendations and
be very open about which ones we accept and which
ones we won't, and which ones would have been done
already I imagine, given the level of reform over the
last half decade.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
But it'll be good to bring this to a close
for everyone.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Sounds like you are sort of preempting that there may
be some kind of finding of systemic racism within the
Northern Territory Police Force, and I mean you've already seen it. Obviously,
there's been changes within the force as it is, So
how seriously would you take a finding like that?
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Yeah, I don't know that there will be, Katie, And
it's certainly not my experience. And I get around and
speak to a lot of police, a lot of officers,
and I mean we've just had nineteen. You know, Aboriginal
liaison officers and Aboriginal community police officers transition to constable.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You know, there's a lot of work being done, but
we just have to see what it says.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I think the best part about all of it is
that draws this chapter to a close, which is what
everyone needs to be able to move on.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And you know, we will learn the lessons that need
to be.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Learned, and we'll respect respectfully tell the coroner that we
disagree where we disagree, and we'll move forward.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Chief Minister. A listener question in relation to power prices. Now,
Marian has messaged in Virginia and she said, Katie, people
in rural areas pay for power to get water from
the boar. Then water has to be pumped into tanks.
Then every time we turn on the tap, the pump
comes on. We've also got to pay for power for
the septic system. Most of us grow at least some
(13:55):
fruit and veg for our own use and share with
family and friends. She said, it is warmer obviously in
the rural areas. She's concerned. Like at the heart of this,
she and others in the rural area are quite concerned
that they are going to be referred to as super
users of power using over fifty five killer what's a day?
(14:17):
She is saying, are you able to respectfully ask the
Chief Minister's team to reconsider a slightly higher threshold for
rural residents? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Okay, And we certainly don't want, you know, rural people
or any particular suburb for example, to be disproportionately affected
by the change. So we have tried to strike a
balance based on the advice about what is you know,
some people might call excessive usage or super usage, but
completely understand the different power needs. You know where you are,
(14:50):
so I think you had someone from Jacana on last
week Katie sort of explained that it is very high
levels and when not charging everyone the higher rate for
all power, it's just the power over the fifty five.
But there's six months to go, so we're going to
reach out to all those people. Jacana will be contacting
regular superusers, So if you intermittently pop over that amount,
(15:13):
they won't contact you. But if you know that you
do intimately go over that level, please reach out to
them or to us so we can better understand your usage.
But everyone will be contacted and we'll go through a process.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
So is it something that you'll consider a slightly higher
threshold potentially for rural residents.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Look, I won't rule it out.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
I don't want to inflate false hope and promises either, right,
So I guess what I'm saying is we need to
move towards more sustainable electricity grid. And obviously we're really
conscious with costs of living around prices.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
So but I want people to feel heard.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
I completely understand that if you're on five or ten
acres out in Humpty Doo, it's a completely different proposition
to six hundred square meters in the car, right, So
I'm very conscious of that, and we do want to
hear from people.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
All right, Chief Minister. The Northern Territory government today announcing
one hundred two new homes are going to be built
across the Northern Territory. We know that the waiting times
for public housing up to eight to ten years for
a safe, secure place to call home for some people. Look,
I think that this is a really good move. Nobody
(16:16):
would dispute that for those that genuinely need a home
through public housing. But look, the thing that we hear
about almost daily is horror tenants, and I want to
be really clear that not everybody in public housing is
a horror tenant. In fact, I've got some that live
up the road for me that are fantastic and you
never hear a peep from them. But in some cases
(16:39):
people have got horror tenants that they've had living next
door to them for an extended period of time and
nothing they can do about it. So as you bring
on one hundred and two new homes, how are you
going to ensure that people actually do the right bloody thing.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, exactly. It's exasperating for people in gosh. I've sat
in lounge rooms and outdoor areas with community members hearing
absolute gutching horror stories, Katie, to the point where people
have packed up and moved. So there's two parts to this.
One is our wait list is huge, and we have
vulnerable people who need and deserve a home, and what
we've got to do as a government is make sure
(17:10):
that people who deserve and will respect a home get one.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's what this one hundred and two houses will do.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Separate to that, and over the next couple of weeks,
I think in about four weeks time, we will have
our announcement around how we're managing behavior in public housing
because it does.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Not meet the expectation of the community.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
And when you are given a house to support you
when you're vulnerable, there is a level of respect you
have to show to the amenity of your neighborhood and
to that house itself. It's not an endless bucket of
money for damage and repairs and maintenance or destruction and
antisocial behavior. But on top of that, I want to
remind everyone about our big announcement which's probably been lost
a little bit. But this reform we're doing with police,
(17:50):
by taking all the different layers of police auxiliary, all
the transit safety officers, and all the public housing safety officers,
training them up to be a new unified layer of
police is going to make a big difference. So when
you call housing to have a public housing safety officer
come around, it will be a fully you know, fully
(18:11):
trained police officer that comes instead, and that's going to
make a big difference.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well. Look, even over the weekend we had concerns raised
about a home on Harrison Circuit in woodrops Ye. Now
we are told since the tenant's moved in in December,
their lives have been a living hell the neighbors and
anticipation of what the next day might bring in regard
to their behavior and activity is you know, terrible for them.
(18:36):
This couple have been physically and verbally abused by various
members of the household and their friends for simply asking
to keep the noise down. The surrounding neighbors are also
concerned for their well being. They've been approached, you know,
over the last six months. Well, they've certainly approached the
authorities over the last six months. They say, you know,
(18:57):
it should like that they have they you know, they've
got concerns for the children's welfare as well at that home,
and they just feel like they're not being listening to.
I mean, this is just one sort of horror story,
if not thousands.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
Yeah, no, no, absolutely, and we stand with the communities.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Who are exasperated by this.
Speaker 3 (19:16):
We've done a lot of reform within the agency already
and it's a big shift in mindset to how labor.
We just had this permissive approach to us having much
higher expectations of public housing tenants.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And again it's not everyone.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
There are beautiful people living in public housing, and rightfully so,
they're the people we have to make sure to have
a home and protect exactly and protect from visitors as well.
Sometimes it's not the homeowner, it's the visitors, and we've
got to get better at supporting them and intervening to
protect them and their home.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So there is lots of work to do there.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
We hear people's frustration, and it's why we're doing the
police public safety offices. It's why we're cracking down on
this type of behavior. And it will get better over time,
and we're very conscious of the impact it's having on people.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, Chief, just another issue that I want to
ask you about before I let you go this morning.
It is well an issue which has shocked the nation.
A childcare worker in Victoria last week charged with more
than seventy offenses relating to allegations involving children. As a result,
the federal government's looking at reforms that would standardize working
with children checks across the country. Is this work going
(20:22):
to happen in the Northern Territory and are you keen
to take a closer look at the way in which
things are done in the Northern Territory to ensure that
we never ever ever see a situation like this one here?
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
It is horrifying what's happened in Victoria, and so Minister
Joe Hersey is mobilized straight away on that. We're looking
at what happens here in the Northern Territory in terms
of our safeguards.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
But also we've put up our hands.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Straight away to work with the federal government as part
of establishing that national Working with Children clearance system. So
we have a you know, an OCA card system, but
there's a lot more that could be done. And I
think everyone you know understands the need to protect down
most vulnerable and the importance of parents and families having
that confidence to drop their child off at childcare knowing
they're going to be nurtured, loved and kept safe.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I know that the NT News reported last week that
more than one hundred centers across the INT have gone
years without an assessment by the Northern Territory Regulator. Is
that acceptable in your eyes? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (21:21):
I don't know the validity of that claim, So if
it's true, it's certainly not acceptable. But I just don't
understand the system well enough to comment directly. But what
people want is a robust system. They want to know
very the maximum amount that government can do is being
done and that the protections there are in place because people,
you know, we want people in the workforce, we want
(21:42):
people sending their kids to childcare to have that stimulation
with other children and activities and all of those things.
So it's an important part of life. But there's got
to be confidence that our kids are safe one hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Just a really quick listener question, Hi, Katie, can you
ask the Chief Minister what is in the works to
move Vinnie's accommodation. Oh? Yeah, I cannot grow.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
That is all happening, so I can't say much. It
hasn't been finalized yet, but we've been working really hard
since coming to government on that because we know that
two year time frame.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
That clock is ticking.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So we're working with Vinni's Larichia Nation are a partner
in that project as well, and so we've been working
really closely with larik here around how they see the
best fit for that facility and location. So I'm hoping
in the next couple of months, certainly by the end
of the year I would have expected.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
We haven't announced it, so can you assure those listening
that they're not going to stay in that sporting Coca.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, that's certainly not our intention.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Now, whether it meets that two year time limit, I
don't know, but they'd have to explain that to the DCA,
not to government.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But we're working as fast as we.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Can to find an alternative solution, Chief Andness, So we're
gonna have to leave it there. I know your press
for time, and we've got to get across to pay
some bills with the ads before we go the news.
Thanks so much for joining us this morning.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Thank you everyone.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Thank you
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