Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yesterday we spoke at length about the Northern Territory government
in acting emergency measures across the Northern Territory's prisons and
police watch houses to address extraordinary risks posed by record overcrowding.
In a statement late on Saturday, the Department of Corrections
said that prisoner numbers across the Northern Territory had reached
(00:20):
two thousand, three hundred and seventy on Friday, following a
rapid and continuing.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Surge of inmate listeners.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Now tell me, are you confident that things are under
control within the correctional centers and that we aren't going
to see mass rioting?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Well, look, I certainly hope we don't. What I know
is that our correction staff have been doing an exceptional
job in extremely difficult circumstances. It is not suitable to
have prisoners in watchhouses, It is not suitable to have
the number of prisoners in each cell that we have
to have. But because there's been no new infrastructure built,
we're in this awful situation. And I just want to
(01:01):
thank everyone for putting their shoulder to the wheel on this.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But in a couple of weeks time, once that.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
New Youth Justice Facility opens, Katie, that will be the
start of relieving the pressure on the system.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So just talk us through.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That, because you and I spoke about this a few
weeks ago and you said that it wasn't too far off.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, from what I can gather.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Once that new youth center opens, you've then got the
youth from Alice Springs coming up to that center. You've
then got the female prisoners going into the youth facility
in Alice Springs, and you then free up the old
Dondale here in Darwin, where adult male prisoners will move into.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Correct how the exactly you've been doing your homework, Katie,
well done. Now that's exactly right, and you can see
how instantly it creates capacity. What it also does, moving
the women out of the male prison in Alice Springs
and into the Youth Justice Facility to be the new
women's prison means we have more male prison beds in
the male prison in Alice Springs, so it will all
(02:00):
flow on. I've had a fantastic and encouraging update from
the Police Commissioner this morning saying that yes, there are
still prisoners in watchhouses, but it's at a much more
manageable level, so police are much more comfortable in having
and just enough operational environment for them while supporting corrections
through this really tough time. So everyone's playing their part, Katie,
(02:21):
and it's certainly imperfect.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
We've been really upfront about that.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
But nine weeks into government, we've now got an infrastructure
plan that's going to deliver for the long term with
that extra thousand beds over the next couple of years,
and we're just getting on with the out the other side,
all right.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So there's a couple of really pivotal points here. First
off is making sure that those correctional officers can actually
hang in.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
There for that period of time. We know that, you
know from.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
The modeling that we've heard certainly from the union, we
are understaffed. The union yesterday calling on some of the
middle management to get their boots on the ground and
help out on the floor. That's something that we'll asks
Commissioner about whether that's part of the plan. But it
does seem as though we've got a couple of weeks
here where there's going to be an enormous amount of
(03:08):
stress on correctional stuff and on those facilities while we
wait for the new youth justice system to come online,
and are you confident that everything can be held together
in that time.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Well, we're doing everything we can to make sure it does.
I mean, you're in a high risk environment. We're dealing
with volatile people, we're dealing with overcrowding, and we're dealing
with a whole range of things. And that's why our
corrections offices really are expert, best in class. It's why
we took Corrections and made it a standalone agency. They
need that autonomy and budget to be able to do
(03:40):
what they've got to do.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And it's unpleasant.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Everyone wishes we didn't have to have prisons, we didn't
have to have police. What we do it makes us
safe for territory and we've got an important long road
ahead of driving down crime. So it's just a hard situation,
but we're very confident in the plan once they use
justice facility opens.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
We have got that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Situation though, where there is the looming thresh of industrial action. Yes,
are you concerned that is going to happen? What is
your message for the correctional stuff this morning?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
We're just thanking them.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
We know this is an awful situation and it's been
coming for a really long time, I have to say,
And you'll have the Corrections commissioner on later. The vast
majority of corrections officers are just getting on with the job.
We respect those who might want to take industrial action,
and if it does, then that will see its course.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But we've got contingency plans in place.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Our police are ready to do whatever they need to do.
I hope it doesn't get to that, but if it does,
we're ready. And ultimately this should be the worst point
that we reach, because going forward things will be better,
all right.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So a Josh on the new Youth Detention Center two
weeks a side.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I believe so. But ask Matt Varley when you have
him on in a couple of minutes time. He should
know and believe you me, if we could open it yesterday.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Why hasn't this work happened sooner? Like to me?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I agree to me, it seemed like the Corrections commissioners
been ready to go on enacting some of these emergency
measures more quickly than the last couple of weeks. You know,
from what you can gather, why hasn't some of these
happened sooner?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, we had a corrections agency buried in the bottom
of Attorney General's Department. We had a minister who believed
jailing was failing. We had a government not wanting to
build that type of infrastructure because they were blinded by
their own ideology. I mean, it was just the blind
leading the blind, Katie. It was totally dysfunctional and incompetent.
(05:34):
In nine weeks we've come into government, met with the
Corrections Commissioners straight away said we need everything on the table.
We need a comprehensive plan for the future, not just
for now. I didn't want to plan just for this
year or next year, Katie. I said, this has got
to be if we spending territories money, it's got to
be spent properly. And we've come up with a fantastic
solution that empowers corrections. Yes we'll need more stuff, Yes
(05:57):
it's going to cost money, and that will all go
through the budget process. You know, we'll need to build
a new women's prison, the boot Camps, and that will
go through budget cabinet and in May next year, every
single Territorian will know the cost. There's transparency around it.
But right now it's a crisis and we're throwing everything
we've got at it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Kanie, are you prepared to throw a figure at it
this morning?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I just can't because, for example, we have to do
the design work on the women's prison. You know, is
it going to be one hundred and fifty beds, two
hundred beds, three hundred beds. You know, it all comes
into question. The costs will reflect what we're doing. And
so as those plans are being put together by the
Corrections Commissioner while he's also managing this volatile situation on
(06:39):
a daily basis, we'll make sure as a government we
budget what is required to deliver good outcomes for Territorians
because community safety is our number one priority.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
All right, Chief Minister, let's talk about that budget.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
We know the under Treasurer open the books for Territorians
to see the state of the Northern Territory's budget and
economy yesterday to McManus has worn the territory faces significant
economic and financial headwinds now. The update outline the territory's
challenging financial situation, as well as an update on the
fiscal and economic outlook for the years ahead, including the
(07:13):
importance of boosting private sector investment to reduce reliance on
public spending. Chief Minister just how bad is the budget
position right now?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, it's really scary, which is why growing our economy
is so important.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Now.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
We took reducing crime, rebuilding the economy and restoring our
lifestyle to the election, and rebuilding the economy, schools for
our kids, and so we do not believe in austerity measures.
Now is not the time to be cutting the guts
out of infrastructure, budgets or programs and services. Now is
the time to say, how do we be a better
(07:49):
place to do business, a more attractive place to invest,
Which is why we're moving forward with our Office of
Territory Coordinator totally reforming how we support the delivery of
major and significant projects in the territory.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So we know dad is bad.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
It threatens our ability to have services in the territory
and that is a huge risk to everyday people and
we cannot stomach that, which is why we must grow
the economy asap.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Look, I'll ask some more questions about the Territory Coordinator
in just a moment before we get there. Though, we
know that the delivery of you know, of private investment
and making sure that we can get things happening in
the Northern Territory has been long on the agenda for
the former Labor government, even for the former c.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Or P government.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
How do you think you're going to get things moving
in a different way to what we've seen for the past,
let's say ten years.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Because we're not doing the same thing that everyone else
is doing. Katie and I want to make this really clear.
Change can be really hard for people, and I understand that,
but we have been given a job to deliver change
because what is happening at the moment is not working.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
The territory is broken.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
People are broken, the system is broken, and my job
is to fix that. We've been really clear that rebuilding
our economy is a huge part of making the territory
a better place to live, a safer place to live,
and so we must do things differently, which is why
our approach to regulatory frameworks, to processing applications, to our
(09:22):
delivery of payroll tax. For example, we've made the territory
the most competitive place in the country to run a
small business from a payroll tax perspective. Our home build
grants out the door, getting dozens and dozens of applications,
generating tens of millions of dollars for the construction sector.
These are the things that will move the dial, Katie.
And so I'm not here to deliver status quo. That's
(09:44):
not the job the community has given me, and it's
not one that I'm going to fall back into that
position because of a few noisy people who don't like
what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
We have got a situation though we need more staff
that is going to cost money.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You've then got the Health Department.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
They're overspent by I believe two hundred eighty million dollars
last financial year. We've got all of this overspend happening.
You're saying that there's not going to be cuts, but
the public service has continued to grow despite the population
not growing over recent years. So I just sort of understand,
(10:18):
you know, where we're going to find some of those
savings measures when we've got all of these social issues
that continue to grow and we've got to sort those
out as well.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, look, it's complicated.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
I think the under Treasurers said yesterday that we have
one hundred and thirty eight thousand Territorians in work out
of a population of two hundred and fifty odd thousand.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So it's it's tough.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
It it rests on the shoulders of your listeners, Katie,
paying their taxes, getting out of bed every day, earning
a living for themselves and their family, and that's not
lost on me. We can't put more burden on the
everyday territorian to fix labour's eight year long mess. So
it's just a very fine balancing act of growing the economy,
of making sure we're spending properly on not having pet
(11:00):
projects and waste for spending. So absolutely, as we keep going,
and if we discover projects that don't add value to
the territory, they are nice to have, not a must have,
we'll be honest with territories and say that's not going ahead.
So it's a combination of lots of little things. But
at the end of the day, we can't have a
blanket austerity approach because people will continue to leave and
(11:22):
if we have less people, that vicious cycle will.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Go round and round, Katie.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Alright, Lea.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
We know that concerns have been raised, as you touched
on a moment ago, by the Opposition about the role
of the Territory Coordinator after documents titled Territory Coordinator Consultation
Paper was released to some stakeholders last week. Now the
opposition claims that the role is going to have new powers,
including step in powers to undertake any assessment process and
(11:48):
make the final decision for that assessment, and exemption powers
to modify the application of an Act in relation to
a specific project. Chief Minister, is your government trying to
sidestep environmental laws.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
What we're trying to do is make us more competitive.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
We know that labor just passed law after law after law,
and it has just made the territory an impossible place
to invest, to grow a business, do business here, and
that's what pays the bills, that's what pays nurses, teachers
and cops. So what we're doing is having a news
that an approval means an approval, that they will be
supported through our regulatory frameworks, but also that we won't
(12:29):
allow for duplication in processes. If we think we can
do things better and faster, we will. A lot of
the Office of Territory Coordinator power is also designed as
a Karen and Stick model, Katie. We want the public
service to take more control over what they have, to
process what they're doing and have greater accountability. So we
hope really that the Territory Coordinator won't have to use
(12:50):
many of these powers, but they're there in case we
need it, and it sends a very clear message to
decision makers to get on with the job.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So let me just put it really like, if let's
say there's a mining project yeap that doesn't gain environmental approval,
has the territory coordinator then got an opportunity to override
that decision.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
It's not like that. It's more about a process. So
for example, if we had a territory development area, say
Middle Arm or out in the Barkley, that's vast areas
of land great for agriculture. If we designate a particular
area as a territory development area, we could decide to
do all approvals for that area in the same way.
(13:32):
So it might be that you have exemptions around the
planning process, for example, or it might be that there's
particular duplication and environmental approvals between the territory and the Commonwealth,
which does happen, and so where we can see that
one process is already happening and the other is a duplicate,
absolutely we'll exempt the duplication because why make the proponent
(13:54):
go through twice the level.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Of pain for the same outcome.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
But so you're confident that there's not going to be.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, any projects that do not pass the pub
test when it comes to the environment. No.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
No, At the end of the day, this will fast
track processes and that's what it's designed to do because
our current processes just don't We haven't got a new mind, Katie,
we haven't got a major project.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's broke.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
And so yeah, this will cut through some of the guff. Absolutely,
but there's lots of checks and balances, including that the
Territory Coordinator Office has to publish their decisions, has to
be tabled in Parliament. There's public transparency around it. And
again the average punter will have access to this information.
They can judge us on our actions and if they
don't like it, they have the power of that vote
(14:40):
in four years time, Katie. But my job is to
deliver change and rebuilding the economy is a huge part
of delivering a saved territory.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Look, plenty of messages coming through. There's one here that
says grow the NT stop off and territory. This person says,
sack three quarters of the public servants. That would be great.
Another one coming through Wayne saying ah leeh so can
you please.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Tell us has the ship lift been put on hold?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
No, that project is still going ahead. I haven't had
a chance to go out there and have a look yet,
but my understanding is there's trucks out there.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
What we know is that, you know, for the.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Territory to grow, we're going to need a lot more
than one ship lift project. So our focus really, if
you talk about minds as you were before, Katie, minds
pay the bills, they genuinely do. We get hundreds of
millions of dollars in royalties from minds that pay our
police and our teachers and our nurses and build roads,
and so people want to throw stones on one hand.
On the other hand, you're driving around in your car
(15:36):
using your phone, and these things are all made out
of metal and minerals, and they pay the bills and
provide jobs and opportunities for our communities. So we have
to balance everything. Government is a balancing act of priorities
and rights and responsibilities. But growing our economy is the
only way out of this mess.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Leah, Before I let you go, it's today being reported
that the Office of the IKAC the annual report revealed
that only twenty percent of investigations were completed within six
months against a target of sixty percent, and forty percent
dragged on more than a year now.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
A separate assessment of.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Performance by the IKAK Inspector Bruce McClintock SC found significant
disruptions caused by Commissioner Michael Richards going on indefinitely in June.
The IKAK Commissioner's future, as we know, remains uncertain as
the Commissioner for Public Employment investigates allegations as well of
inappropriate behavior. Where are things that from your perspective, I mean, look,
(16:36):
I'm somebody who fought for the IKAC to be established,
but I think that I, along with a lot of
other people, at this point in time, am now kind
of looking at the IKAK and going, you know, this
seems like the right thing to have in place.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It seems like we need an i CAAC.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
But there has been issue after issue in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Is it sustainable?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Look, it is certainly fair to say, and I said
this in my contribution in Parliament when I tabled the
Report's Katie that this impacts the public's.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Confidence in the KAC system.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
And so what you if people read the reports, what
you'll see is. It's no reflection on any particular individual
or people working in the IK. It's just been a
tumultuous time. They've had chronic understaffing, which no doubt contributes
to the fact that they haven't met their KPIs. Of course,
we've had the Commissioner on extended leave and that will
(17:31):
continue on until the investigation is concluded. So it's been
a tumultuous time, and that, of course then eroades confidence
in the community about the institution itself, and we're very,
very conscious of that.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Katie, it's very unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
How much does it cost to you?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Oh, I can't think of that off the top of
my head.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I'm sorry, Katie, but it's a lot. It's millions and millions.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Well, I guess the question is is it worth that
money at this point?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Well, at this point it's not function properly. That's fair
to say. The report says it. The inspector's report says it.
How we get to a better place going forward. It
will be something.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
For the future.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So I mean, is it something that you're going to
be reviewing.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
We're very committed to the IK, make no mistake, Katie,
So we want to see a strong, healthy Ikke in
the territory.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
These couple of issues have got to.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Run its course, and once that does settles, will certainly
be having a look at why is there this chronic understaffing?
How is all of this working? Doesn't need to be
done better? You know, all of that is on the table.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I feel like it is a situation in the Northern
Territory where what makes it really difficult to operate in
IKK is there's no degrees of separation.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Like it's literally it's pretty hard to get.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Stuff to be able to work in there that aren't
that don't have you know, conflicts which I'm sure are
being declared, no doubt about that, but different conflicts in
different ways. So I think it's it seems to me
like it's a difficult operation to run for that reason
in itself.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, it would be, Katie.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
You can imagine the nightmare that it is to be
employed there and constantly having to conflict yourself out of matters.
I mean the acting k commissioner last estimates, I remember
she said she had conflicts and couldn't go through with
an investigation. I've just got that number, Katie. It's about
seven million dollars a year to run the k Yeah,
so it's a significant amount of money. I think most
(19:18):
people want to see it working properly, but for various
reasons over the years, it's you know, it hasn't been
where people expect it to be.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, look Lea Finokro. Just a very quick question from
a listener before we wrap up. Hey, Katie, can you
ask Lea Finokro about the buyback SoLIT tariff that she
would double it on your show as a campaign promised.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
When's that going to happen?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yes, you ask me every week. I feel terrible. I
don't have an answer. I'm going to get on to
my relevant minister after this and say, hey, what's going on.
It is definitely on track, but clearly not fast enough
for the community. So we'll go back and they'll put
the hurry everyone'
Yesterday we spoke at length about the Northern Territory government
in acting emergency measures across the Northern Territory's prisons and
police watch houses to address extraordinary risks posed by record overcrowding.
In a statement late on Saturday, the Department of Corrections
said that prisoner numbers across the Northern Territory had reached
(00:20):
two thousand, three hundred and seventy on Friday, following a
rapid and continuing.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Surge of inmate listeners.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Now tell me, are you confident that things are under
control within the correctional centers and that we aren't going
to see mass rioting?
Speaker 4 (00:38):
Well, look, I certainly hope we don't. What I know
is that our correction staff have been doing an exceptional
job in extremely difficult circumstances. It is not suitable to
have prisoners in watchhouses, It is not suitable to have
the number of prisoners in each cell that we have
to have. But because there's been no new infrastructure built,
we're in this awful situation. And I just want to
(01:01):
thank everyone for putting their shoulder to the wheel on this.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
But in a couple of weeks time, once that.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
New Youth Justice Facility opens, Katie, that will be the
start of relieving the pressure on the system.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
So just talk us through.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
That, because you and I spoke about this a few
weeks ago and you said that it wasn't too far off.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, from what I can gather.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Once that new youth center opens, you've then got the
youth from Alice Springs coming up to that center. You've
then got the female prisoners going into the youth facility
in Alice Springs, and you then free up the old
Dondale here in Darwin, where adult male prisoners will move into.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Correct how the exactly you've been doing your homework, Katie,
well done. Now that's exactly right, and you can see
how instantly it creates capacity. What it also does, moving
the women out of the male prison in Alice Springs
and into the Youth Justice Facility to be the new
women's prison means we have more male prison beds in
the male prison in Alice Springs, so it will all
(02:00):
flow on. I've had a fantastic and encouraging update from
the Police Commissioner this morning saying that yes, there are
still prisoners in watchhouses, but it's at a much more
manageable level, so police are much more comfortable in having
and just enough operational environment for them while supporting corrections
through this really tough time. So everyone's playing their part, Katie,
(02:21):
and it's certainly imperfect.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
We've been really upfront about that.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
But nine weeks into government, we've now got an infrastructure
plan that's going to deliver for the long term with
that extra thousand beds over the next couple of years,
and we're just getting on with the out the other side,
all right.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So there's a couple of really pivotal points here. First
off is making sure that those correctional officers can actually
hang in.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
There for that period of time. We know that, you
know from.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
The modeling that we've heard certainly from the union, we
are understaffed. The union yesterday calling on some of the
middle management to get their boots on the ground and
help out on the floor. That's something that we'll asks
Commissioner about whether that's part of the plan. But it
does seem as though we've got a couple of weeks
here where there's going to be an enormous amount of
(03:08):
stress on correctional stuff and on those facilities while we
wait for the new youth justice system to come online,
and are you confident that everything can be held together
in that time.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Well, we're doing everything we can to make sure it does.
I mean, you're in a high risk environment. We're dealing
with volatile people, we're dealing with overcrowding, and we're dealing
with a whole range of things. And that's why our
corrections offices really are expert, best in class. It's why
we took Corrections and made it a standalone agency. They
need that autonomy and budget to be able to do
(03:40):
what they've got to do.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And it's unpleasant.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Everyone wishes we didn't have to have prisons, we didn't
have to have police. What we do it makes us
safe for territory and we've got an important long road
ahead of driving down crime. So it's just a hard situation,
but we're very confident in the plan once they use
justice facility opens.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
We have got that.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Situation though, where there is the looming thresh of industrial action. Yes,
are you concerned that is going to happen? What is
your message for the correctional stuff this morning?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
We're just thanking them.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
We know this is an awful situation and it's been
coming for a really long time, I have to say,
And you'll have the Corrections commissioner on later. The vast
majority of corrections officers are just getting on with the job.
We respect those who might want to take industrial action,
and if it does, then that will see its course.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
But we've got contingency plans in place.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
Our police are ready to do whatever they need to do.
I hope it doesn't get to that, but if it does,
we're ready. And ultimately this should be the worst point
that we reach, because going forward things will be better,
all right.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So a Josh on the new Youth Detention Center two
weeks a side.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I believe so. But ask Matt Varley when you have
him on in a couple of minutes time. He should
know and believe you me, if we could open it yesterday.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Why hasn't this work happened sooner? Like to me?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
I agree to me, it seemed like the Corrections commissioners
been ready to go on enacting some of these emergency
measures more quickly than the last couple of weeks. You know,
from what you can gather, why hasn't some of these
happened sooner?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Well, we had a corrections agency buried in the bottom
of Attorney General's Department. We had a minister who believed
jailing was failing. We had a government not wanting to
build that type of infrastructure because they were blinded by
their own ideology. I mean, it was just the blind
leading the blind, Katie. It was totally dysfunctional and incompetent.
(05:34):
In nine weeks we've come into government, met with the
Corrections Commissioners straight away said we need everything on the table.
We need a comprehensive plan for the future, not just
for now. I didn't want to plan just for this
year or next year, Katie. I said, this has got
to be if we spending territories money, it's got to
be spent properly. And we've come up with a fantastic
solution that empowers corrections. Yes we'll need more stuff, Yes
(05:57):
it's going to cost money, and that will all go
through the budget process. You know, we'll need to build
a new women's prison, the boot Camps, and that will
go through budget cabinet and in May next year, every
single Territorian will know the cost. There's transparency around it.
But right now it's a crisis and we're throwing everything
we've got at it.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Kanie, are you prepared to throw a figure at it
this morning?
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I just can't because, for example, we have to do
the design work on the women's prison. You know, is
it going to be one hundred and fifty beds, two
hundred beds, three hundred beds. You know, it all comes
into question. The costs will reflect what we're doing. And
so as those plans are being put together by the
Corrections Commissioner while he's also managing this volatile situation on
(06:39):
a daily basis, we'll make sure as a government we
budget what is required to deliver good outcomes for Territorians
because community safety is our number one priority.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
All right, Chief Minister, let's talk about that budget.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
We know the under Treasurer open the books for Territorians
to see the state of the Northern Territory's budget and
economy yesterday to McManus has worn the territory faces significant
economic and financial headwinds now. The update outline the territory's
challenging financial situation, as well as an update on the
fiscal and economic outlook for the years ahead, including the
(07:13):
importance of boosting private sector investment to reduce reliance on
public spending. Chief Minister just how bad is the budget
position right now?
Speaker 4 (07:24):
Yeah, it's really scary, which is why growing our economy
is so important.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Now.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
We took reducing crime, rebuilding the economy and restoring our
lifestyle to the election, and rebuilding the economy, schools for
our kids, and so we do not believe in austerity measures.
Now is not the time to be cutting the guts
out of infrastructure, budgets or programs and services. Now is
the time to say, how do we be a better
(07:49):
place to do business, a more attractive place to invest,
Which is why we're moving forward with our Office of
Territory Coordinator totally reforming how we support the delivery of
major and significant projects in the territory.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
So we know dad is bad.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
It threatens our ability to have services in the territory
and that is a huge risk to everyday people and
we cannot stomach that, which is why we must grow
the economy asap.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Look, I'll ask some more questions about the Territory Coordinator
in just a moment before we get there. Though, we
know that the delivery of you know, of private investment
and making sure that we can get things happening in
the Northern Territory has been long on the agenda for
the former Labor government, even for the former c.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
Or P government.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
How do you think you're going to get things moving
in a different way to what we've seen for the past,
let's say ten years.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Because we're not doing the same thing that everyone else
is doing. Katie and I want to make this really clear.
Change can be really hard for people, and I understand that,
but we have been given a job to deliver change
because what is happening at the moment is not working.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
The territory is broken.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
People are broken, the system is broken, and my job
is to fix that. We've been really clear that rebuilding
our economy is a huge part of making the territory
a better place to live, a safer place to live,
and so we must do things differently, which is why
our approach to regulatory frameworks, to processing applications, to our
(09:22):
delivery of payroll tax. For example, we've made the territory
the most competitive place in the country to run a
small business from a payroll tax perspective. Our home build
grants out the door, getting dozens and dozens of applications,
generating tens of millions of dollars for the construction sector.
These are the things that will move the dial, Katie.
And so I'm not here to deliver status quo. That's
(09:44):
not the job the community has given me, and it's
not one that I'm going to fall back into that
position because of a few noisy people who don't like
what we're doing.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
We have got a situation though we need more staff
that is going to cost money.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
You've then got the Health Department.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
They're overspent by I believe two hundred eighty million dollars
last financial year. We've got all of this overspend happening.
You're saying that there's not going to be cuts, but
the public service has continued to grow despite the population
not growing over recent years. So I just sort of understand,
(10:18):
you know, where we're going to find some of those
savings measures when we've got all of these social issues
that continue to grow and we've got to sort those
out as well.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, look, it's complicated.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
I think the under Treasurers said yesterday that we have
one hundred and thirty eight thousand Territorians in work out
of a population of two hundred and fifty odd thousand.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
So it's it's tough.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
It it rests on the shoulders of your listeners, Katie,
paying their taxes, getting out of bed every day, earning
a living for themselves and their family, and that's not
lost on me. We can't put more burden on the
everyday territorian to fix labour's eight year long mess. So
it's just a very fine balancing act of growing the economy,
of making sure we're spending properly on not having pet
(11:00):
projects and waste for spending. So absolutely, as we keep going,
and if we discover projects that don't add value to
the territory, they are nice to have, not a must have,
we'll be honest with territories and say that's not going ahead.
So it's a combination of lots of little things. But
at the end of the day, we can't have a
blanket austerity approach because people will continue to leave and
(11:22):
if we have less people, that vicious cycle will.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Go round and round, Katie.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Alright, Lea.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
We know that concerns have been raised, as you touched
on a moment ago, by the Opposition about the role
of the Territory Coordinator after documents titled Territory Coordinator Consultation
Paper was released to some stakeholders last week. Now the
opposition claims that the role is going to have new powers,
including step in powers to undertake any assessment process and
(11:48):
make the final decision for that assessment, and exemption powers
to modify the application of an Act in relation to
a specific project. Chief Minister, is your government trying to
sidestep environmental laws.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
What we're trying to do is make us more competitive.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
We know that labor just passed law after law after law,
and it has just made the territory an impossible place
to invest, to grow a business, do business here, and
that's what pays the bills, that's what pays nurses, teachers
and cops. So what we're doing is having a news
that an approval means an approval, that they will be
supported through our regulatory frameworks, but also that we won't
(12:29):
allow for duplication in processes. If we think we can
do things better and faster, we will. A lot of
the Office of Territory Coordinator power is also designed as
a Karen and Stick model, Katie. We want the public
service to take more control over what they have, to
process what they're doing and have greater accountability. So we
hope really that the Territory Coordinator won't have to use
(12:50):
many of these powers, but they're there in case we
need it, and it sends a very clear message to
decision makers to get on with the job.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So let me just put it really like, if let's
say there's a mining project yeap that doesn't gain environmental approval,
has the territory coordinator then got an opportunity to override
that decision.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
It's not like that. It's more about a process. So
for example, if we had a territory development area, say
Middle Arm or out in the Barkley, that's vast areas
of land great for agriculture. If we designate a particular
area as a territory development area, we could decide to
do all approvals for that area in the same way.
(13:32):
So it might be that you have exemptions around the
planning process, for example, or it might be that there's
particular duplication and environmental approvals between the territory and the Commonwealth,
which does happen, and so where we can see that
one process is already happening and the other is a duplicate,
absolutely we'll exempt the duplication because why make the proponent
(13:54):
go through twice the level.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Of pain for the same outcome.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
But so you're confident that there's not going to be.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know, any projects that do not pass the pub
test when it comes to the environment. No.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
No, At the end of the day, this will fast
track processes and that's what it's designed to do because
our current processes just don't We haven't got a new mind, Katie,
we haven't got a major project.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
It's broke.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
And so yeah, this will cut through some of the guff. Absolutely,
but there's lots of checks and balances, including that the
Territory Coordinator Office has to publish their decisions, has to
be tabled in Parliament. There's public transparency around it. And
again the average punter will have access to this information.
They can judge us on our actions and if they
don't like it, they have the power of that vote
(14:40):
in four years time, Katie. But my job is to
deliver change and rebuilding the economy is a huge part
of delivering a saved territory.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Look, plenty of messages coming through. There's one here that
says grow the NT stop off and territory. This person says,
sack three quarters of the public servants. That would be great.
Another one coming through Wayne saying ah leeh so can
you please.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Tell us has the ship lift been put on hold?
Speaker 4 (15:04):
No, that project is still going ahead. I haven't had
a chance to go out there and have a look yet,
but my understanding is there's trucks out there.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
What we know is that, you know, for the.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Territory to grow, we're going to need a lot more
than one ship lift project. So our focus really, if
you talk about minds as you were before, Katie, minds
pay the bills, they genuinely do. We get hundreds of
millions of dollars in royalties from minds that pay our
police and our teachers and our nurses and build roads,
and so people want to throw stones on one hand.
On the other hand, you're driving around in your car
(15:36):
using your phone, and these things are all made out
of metal and minerals, and they pay the bills and
provide jobs and opportunities for our communities. So we have
to balance everything. Government is a balancing act of priorities
and rights and responsibilities. But growing our economy is the
only way out of this mess.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Leah, Before I let you go, it's today being reported
that the Office of the IKAC the annual report revealed
that only twenty percent of investigations were completed within six
months against a target of sixty percent, and forty percent
dragged on more than a year now.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
A separate assessment of.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Performance by the IKAK Inspector Bruce McClintock SC found significant
disruptions caused by Commissioner Michael Richards going on indefinitely in June.
The IKAK Commissioner's future, as we know, remains uncertain as
the Commissioner for Public Employment investigates allegations as well of
inappropriate behavior. Where are things that from your perspective, I mean, look,
(16:36):
I'm somebody who fought for the IKAC to be established,
but I think that I, along with a lot of
other people, at this point in time, am now kind
of looking at the IKAK and going, you know, this
seems like the right thing to have in place.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It seems like we need an i CAAC.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
But there has been issue after issue in a lot
of ways.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Is it sustainable?
Speaker 4 (16:57):
Look, it is certainly fair to say, and I said
this in my contribution in Parliament when I tabled the
Report's Katie that this impacts the public's.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
Confidence in the KAC system.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
And so what you if people read the reports, what
you'll see is. It's no reflection on any particular individual
or people working in the IK. It's just been a
tumultuous time. They've had chronic understaffing, which no doubt contributes
to the fact that they haven't met their KPIs. Of course,
we've had the Commissioner on extended leave and that will
(17:31):
continue on until the investigation is concluded. So it's been
a tumultuous time, and that, of course then eroades confidence
in the community about the institution itself, and we're very,
very conscious of that.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Katie, it's very unfortunate.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
How much does it cost to you?
Speaker 4 (17:47):
Oh, I can't think of that off the top of
my head.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
I'm sorry, Katie, but it's a lot. It's millions and millions.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Well, I guess the question is is it worth that
money at this point?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Well, at this point it's not function properly. That's fair
to say. The report says it. The inspector's report says it.
How we get to a better place going forward. It
will be something.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
For the future.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
So I mean, is it something that you're going to
be reviewing.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
We're very committed to the IK, make no mistake, Katie,
So we want to see a strong, healthy Ikke in
the territory.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
These couple of issues have got to.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Run its course, and once that does settles, will certainly
be having a look at why is there this chronic understaffing?
How is all of this working? Doesn't need to be
done better? You know, all of that is on the table.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I feel like it is a situation in the Northern
Territory where what makes it really difficult to operate in
IKK is there's no degrees of separation.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Like it's literally it's pretty hard to get.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Stuff to be able to work in there that aren't
that don't have you know, conflicts which I'm sure are
being declared, no doubt about that, but different conflicts in
different ways. So I think it's it seems to me
like it's a difficult operation to run for that reason
in itself.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Yeah, it would be, Katie.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
You can imagine the nightmare that it is to be
employed there and constantly having to conflict yourself out of matters.
I mean the acting k commissioner last estimates, I remember
she said she had conflicts and couldn't go through with
an investigation. I've just got that number, Katie. It's about
seven million dollars a year to run the k Yeah,
so it's a significant amount of money. I think most
(19:18):
people want to see it working properly, but for various
reasons over the years, it's you know, it hasn't been
where people expect it to be.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, look Lea Finokro. Just a very quick question from
a listener before we wrap up. Hey, Katie, can you
ask Lea Finokro about the buyback SoLIT tariff that she
would double it on your show as a campaign promised.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
When's that going to happen?
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Yes, you ask me every week. I feel terrible. I
don't have an answer. I'm going to get on to
my relevant minister after this and say, hey, what's going on.
It is definitely on track, but clearly not fast enough
for the community. So we'll go back and they'll put
the hurry everyone'
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