Community and Public Sector Union Regional Secretary David Villegas says only one transit safety officer is interested in becoming a police public safety officer, adding that the union has still not received any detail on grandfathering, pay and conditions

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Last month, we know the government announced that they would
be embarking on significant law and order reform to target
antisocial behavior in public places, developing a new Police Public
Safety Officer a PPSO stream in an effort to better
deploy frontline resources across the key public spaces. Now that

(00:21):
new stream consolidates various auxiliary and safety officer roles into
one highly operational unit under Northern Territory Police. This is
what the government had said at the time, providing standardized
training through the Northern Territory Police College. Problem is, it
doesn't look as though those currently in the transit safety

(00:42):
and public housing safety roles are keen to transition to
the newly created role. Now joining us on the show
is Community and Public Sector Union Regional Secretary David Vilagis.
Good morning to you, David, Good morning Katie, Thanks so
much for your time. Now, David, last time you and
I spoke, you'd raise concerns that some of the current

(01:03):
transit and housing safety officers weren't sure if they would
transition to the new role. Where are things.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
At, Kadine. Nothing much has changed. If anything, people are
just as if not more frustrated than they were when
the announcement first came out and they heard about their
jobs they made obsolete on the news. They're still very
frustrated because it has been over five weeks and they
still haven't received any details at all really about their

(01:32):
industrial entitlements, their pain conditions that will becoming what the
grandfathering situation will look like. Basically, the government's delegated all
responsibility to the police in terms of developing the PPSO
model first, which is being developed as we speak, and
then they'll be briefing our members in about a week's

(01:54):
time on that PPSO model. But based on the information
they've been provided, based on the way they've been treated
so far, based on the fact that a number of
them have already been police and have deliberately made that
choice to move into transit safety or public housing because
they prefer that model, they think it's a good model.

(02:14):
Just that every single person we've spoken to, bar one
is not interested in what the government's trying to do,
and they have serious concerns about the potential concerns for
public safety as well.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
So, David, you are saying at this point in time,
one of those transit or housing safety officers have said
that they want to go into a PPSO role.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yes, that's correct, and I guess what complicates it further
is and that that person raised a really important point
was that they're not even though they're very interested, they're
not sure if they would even meet the criteria for
a number of reasons. And that was explicitly raised in
a meeting that I had with representative from the police
and the employers. Immediately after that meeting with staff, when

(03:05):
we've put to the police what will happen if you know,
worst case scenario, after they've been provided all the information
and they have a full clear picture of exactly what
to expect, that we still have a situation where nobody
wants to do this. And the answer was that, well,
they will be contacted individually by the police, they'll be

(03:26):
offered an opportunity to apply, and even if they apply,
there's no guarantee that they'll get the role. Right, So
this isn't just some transition process. This isn't just another
machinery of government change where they change all the time
and the government they're saying, your jobs are gone and
if you want to apply, you can apply, but you
may not get the job either.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
David, that's a very different story to what we've been
told when this announcement was made. My understanding is that
if they wanted to stay in their current roles, they'd
be able to.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
That is not what we've been communicated to us at all.
In fact, I was really surprised last night seeing the
ABC story that I spoke to because it sounds like
the government's replied saying something similar as well. But I
guess it just depends on who you talk to, because
I've spoken to directly with the employers, with the Commission
of Public Employment, with the Department of Housing, with the

(04:16):
Department of Infrastructure and Logistics, as well as a representative
from the police, and so far, what we've been told
about Grandfather is that at this stage they're still developing it. However,
what they'd be looking at is looking at each of
the individual stuff on a case by case basis and
looking at how they better fit them in other parts
of the department, a redeployment sort of situation. But that's

(04:37):
all we've got. We've not been told at all that
they will have a choice to be able to stay
in their role, because it's been made clear to us
that both of those areas would be made obsolete, and
so far we've also been told even by the Department
of Housing because we asked them, we said, unlike transit safety,
we're it's like a very yeah, straightforward, not the right word,

(04:58):
you know, it's a very pacific role in terms of
patrolling and responding to public order and anti social behavior
at bus networks. The public housing safety model is much
more complex and multi dimensional. And we've asked what will
happen to those other roles outside of the you know,
addressing anti social behavior, and they said they're going to
be looking at splitting up those roles and being absorbed

(05:21):
into other roles in the department. So you know, again
this is this is the problem. This is the problem
we have with the communication. It's to we're told at
the last minute, and then you are three different people
and you get four different answers.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
So, David, in terms of you know, the number of
transit and housing safety officers that are currently in this situation,
how many people are we.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Talking So there's another point of contention there because in
the original media release it said there were fifty six
in total. That's that's based on ste and that's based
on you know, supervisors, coordinators, as well who don't have
a frontline role. But in terms of actual officers transit safety,

(06:08):
there's only about sixteen, and in public housing there's about
fifteen in Darwin, there's about six in Our Springs, and
there's I'm going to say about four or five between
tannin Creek and Catherine, so it's a fairly more cohort overall.
They've mentioned that there's fifty six that will be transitioning,
so we still don't know, you know, the officers don't

(06:30):
know what's going to happen, but alone the coordinators and
the case managers and the managers themselves. But at this stage,
that's how many we're looking at at the moment.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
So, David, in terms of, you know, the fact that
then they're saying at this point in time, they're not
really wanting to go into these new roles, these PPSO roles.
Do you think that if they can get some of
that clarification, if they can get some further detail at
that upcoming meeting, that their minds may change anything possible.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I think there's a large number of them who even
with that information, it won't and the reason is that
they have that direct experience with the police already a
lot of them are really concerned and I guess if
there's a further plan to address this, this would be fantastic.
But they're really concerned about the fact that these models

(07:21):
were created in the first place to supplement the police,
to help the police, because they're always under staff. They're
always trying to get more people to work for the police,
and that's part of the reason why the NTPA are
having a big stats with the government, just like we
are with bargaining, because they're trying to attract more people
and keep them in the police force. So we've had
transit safety in public housing to support that model, right,

(07:43):
So they're very tied to that model because it works.
And the other if that needs to be seriously addressed
is the fact that, especially those who have that experience
and we've shared it with other staff, the issues at
bus networks, the issues that arise in public housing. So
for example, you know, somebody calls because the music, you

(08:03):
know that somebody has been playing the music for three
days straight, really loudly, or they've got people that are
coming in and out of their homes and they don't
want them there, and the public housing safety officers come
in and they get out, this isn't this isn't your house.
These sorts of activities are not prioritized by the police.
Antisocial behavior at the bus stops are not prioritized by

(08:23):
the police. And so far from the trickle of information
we've received is that the PPSO model will be very broad,
addressing public anti social behavior across the board and bottlows
and everything else as well. So the problem we have
is as well, is that we've already got a group
of people that have been saying for years this works,
but we need more staff. We're doing the best we

(08:44):
can with what we've got, but we also need more
people on the ground, and they're saying not only will
we have the same number, but they will be spread
out across even more pieces of work. So then again,
it does raise concerns from our members, specifically about how
they'll be able to continue to effectively address anti social
behavior at the bus stops and in public housing as well.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
I mean, could it and you know I could be
wrong here, but could it be a situation where these ppsos,
I mean, the government has sort of said that the
whole idea of the creation around them was to be
able to go and deal with those issues that obviously
you've just touched on their you know, music being played
too loud in public housing, obviously, issues on the bus,

(09:27):
that kind of thing, but actually giving them further training
and for the tools to be able to deal with
those issues in a more prompt and efficient manner.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
So I guess the response from our members would be
one of the big issues they're going to encounter is
that people, especially in public housing, for example, they will
feel much more comfortable talking to a public housing statety
officer who is not emblazoned with and this isn't a
criticism of the police at all, but they are more

(10:00):
comfortable talking to people who aren't police and engaging with them.
And that's one of the concerns they have is that
they've built up these relationships over many years. Alice Springs
is a perfect example. They build up these relationships over
many years, so they can de escalate issues a lot
more quickly and respond much more quickly at the moment.
If they wear police uniforms, that will also cause friction

(10:21):
as well. And then the other concern that's been communicated
to me from outside of our membership space is the
fact that even the training, the training itself and the
issues that the police are also having with with you know,
the recruitment processes for the police too, is also another problem. Right,
So look, I mean look to be clear, like, yeah,
we all have a vested interest in this. This is

(10:44):
one of the first times in my career where like,
this is something that's directly impacting me, like I live
in Darwin and I also worry about anti social behavior
and public order. We all have a stake, Inness. I
want something that will work. Yeah, but this is clearly
something that they've just put meant that they announced this
major change, not spoken to a single person who's been

(11:04):
doing this for fifteen or twenty years, is really alarming, right, Like,
I want something, We want something, Our members want something
that will actually work, and right now everything they've been
presented is only giving them more red flags.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Well, David, please keep us up to date as that
meeting takes place and as you are given further information.
I'll be really keen to talk to you again soon, mate.
Thank you very much for your time this morning. I
appreciate you joining us on the show and raising those
issues with us.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Thank you, Thank you, Tom, Thanks so much.