Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now we know that middle schools in Darwin, Palmerston and
(00:02):
Alice Springs are going to be phased out to become
comprehensive high schools, with a handful of others set to
become specialized campuses. The Education Minister yesterday outlined how the
rollout will happen and joining us in the studio to
give us some further detail is the Department of Education's
Executive Director of School Support, David R. Toy. Good morning
(00:25):
to you, David, to be with you again. Yeah, good
to have you on the show. Now, there was four
weeks of consultation between the government and school councils. There
were students involved, families, educators, school communities and also peak bodies.
Now tell me what did that consultation tell the department?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, thanks, Codie. So the last time we spoke, which
I think was in late March, we're in the middle
of our consultation. So over those four weeks we spoke
to every school council of affected schools, We spoke to
staff groups, we spoke to students, and we also ran
a joint online survey for all of those stakeholder groups
to get in touch with us. Through the survey, with
eleven hundred responses wow across the board, and generally there
(01:07):
was strong support. So we had eighty five percent of
teachers that were supported strongly supportive of neutral on the process,
seventy seven percent of parents and seventy nine percent of
students were supportive.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So really quite strong support, is Nash.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, So I think people are supportive of the concept
in generally. Through that process, we also heard about a
lot of the things that we need to consider an implementation,
So part of it's about how we look after our
staff and also how we look after our students through
this change. We heard about infrastructure requirements and we need
to do up some classrooms to make them ready for
senior secondary students, and we need to make sure we've
(01:41):
got the right well being programs in place for the
students with additional needs or disability to transition.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
And so in terms of the concerns that were raised,
I mean you've touched on some of those infrastructure support,
making sure that you know the teachers and the students
have what they need. So how do you do all
of those things while also implementing these changes A.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Great question, Katie. So the implementation that we're proposing is
staged over three years. So we're going to start next
year in the Darwin and Palmerston schools where we'll be
looking at a single year level staying on at their school.
So for schools like Nycliff, Dripstone and Sanderson who are
for currently year sevens to nine, next year they'll be
offering a year ten subjects, our students will be allowed
(02:20):
to or able to stay at those schools. That way,
we can progressively roll out implementation over the three years
and support that cohort as it goes from year ten
to year eleven in twenty twenty seven, and finally in
year twelve and twenty twenty eight, and we'll have our
first graduating classes at the end of twenty twenty eight
from the new secondary system.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah right, So you touched on which schools are going
to be sort of taking the next steps as of
next year. How exactly is it going to happen? You know,
not only for the Education Department but to those parents
listening this morning, to those families listening, I know that
the biggest question that people sort of say to me
when we talk about middle schools being phased out is
(02:58):
what's it kind of going to look like it's some
of these schools.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, thanks, So we circulated information to all of the
parents of year six students in the year nine students yesday.
So everybody should have a fact sheet and if you don't,
please reach out to your school principle around what's happening
for next year. So for the year nine students that
are currently attending middle schools, you don't need to change anything.
So you're enrollment for year ten will extend through at
the school that you are out at the moment. If
(03:23):
you do choose or want to explore education at another
school in the territory, you can also about yourself for
the enrollment process there for our year six students. For
most students it's business as usual, so what would have
occurred if we hadn't made any changes. So across Darwin
the year six prior to enrollment areas aren't changing. You'll
be attending the schools that you were expecting to attend
(03:43):
in year seven. The exception is for Palmerston. In Palmerston
we are establishing two full comprehensive schools where previously we
had Palmerston College split over two campuses at Driver in
Rosebery yep. Both of those schools will commence from next year.
So at the Driver Campus, if you're on the western
side of Armiston, year seven students from or year six
students this year will be transitioning to year seven at
(04:05):
the Driver Campus. At the Rosary campus, the year nine
will be staying onto year ten.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, So let's say you're a year nine student at
Darwin Middle School currently and you know the school is
now obviously going into this comprehensive model. How's it going
to be different for those kids and for their families.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So a couple of things in that for next year,
there's not going to be a lot of change for
the kids at Darwin Middle School, so though as they
would normally do move over to the Darwin High site
and start accessing the senior secondary education there. As we
progress through to twenty twenty eight, for the Darwinhei and
Darwen Middle schools, there will be a more integrated model
of education there. So that means that the teaching staff
(04:45):
may operate across both year seven, eight nine as well
as ten, eleven twelve. It also means that the middle
school kids get access to the great facilities in the
High or in the Senior Secondary campus and the students
in the senior secondary campus get access to the really
great facilities in the middle school as well as the
expertise there well.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
In terms of teaching and administration jobs or support jobs,
are we anticipating that any of those jobs are going
to be lost.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, so there won't be any job losses through this transition.
In fact, in the territory, like with the rest of
the Australia, we are in need of teachers and we're
constantly recruiting for more teachers. A big part of this
transition is actually supporting the staff that we've got and
building the capacity of those teachers that probably haven't taught
senior secondary for a while to be able to deliver
that full comprehensive education. Okay, that was a strong theme
(05:34):
of the review that happened in twenty twenty three that
teachers want to be able to see kids through from
year seven all the way through to year twelve.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Will you form a good rapport with students right and
some you know, like some kids do just gell with
different teachers in terms of the way in which they teach,
and it helps with the.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Attention as well for kids. If you're going from a
school where everybody knows you where you're comfortable with the
teaching staff. To a senior secondary school where you don't
know anyone, the chances are if things aren't going well,
you might choose not to go to.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Schooling, yeah, or you might slip through the gaps a
little bit, not really know who you can ask for
a bit of help. And I know the schools do
a lot to support kids, but it does make it
easier if you've got a familiar face and a teacher
that you know to be able to raise those things
sometimes absolutely in terms of the teachers and making sure
that they are up to date with delivering that curriculum
(06:20):
to different grades that they may not have been over
the last couple of years, what work has to happen there.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, So we've got a series of professional development opportunities
for the remainder of this year for our teachers that
haven't taught an anti Certificate of Education training for a
little while. So there's introductions to those subjects as well
as all of the curriculum and materials required at those
schools to stand it up. We're also hopeful that we'll
be working with our senior secondary teachers in established schools
particularly our lead teachers, to get them to support some
(06:48):
of the more junior teachers in developing their capacity.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Now, I know there've been some discussion yesterday with the
Education Minister as well about what those changes, all of
these changes are going to mean. And you talk about
students being involved in trades, is there going to be
more opportunity for kids to go down that stream.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah. One of the great parts of this announcement is
the establishment of specialized trade and industry colleges in Darwin
and in other springs, and we're also looking at those
options for Palmerston. So the specialized trade or technical college
will be a partnership with industry to support kids who
are interested in that vocational education pathway to develop the skills,
but also then move straight into employment after they finish.
(07:29):
So in other jurisdictions they've been seeing them up for
a little while and these become highly competitive facilities for
students that want to jump straight into industry.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
David to any parents listening this morning that you know,
maybe thinking to themselves, So I'm still not one hundred
percent sure about this change. I mean, why do you
think this is going to mean that students are better off?
Why will they be better off under this new model.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think a big part is the opportunities available to students.
So with more comprehensive skills and more senior secondary provision
means we can provide different specialization across the territory, what
we in education call a differentiated response. So one of
those specializations is the trade pathways we've talked about. The
other is expediting university and Tree four professions where we
really need those workers in the territory like teachers and
(08:13):
healthcare professionals. So this change will mean there's more opportunities
to explore those specializations. It will also mean that kids
get better continuity through their secondary journey, so that the
teachers know them, they know the schools, and they become
comfortable where they are. We don't want to move kids
around too much because it tends to be at that
point that they drop out.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, and I also I always think as well about
that role modeling as well. From the older school students.
You know, when you've got the year twelves there, that
you're seeing them sort of behaving, you know in a
way that's good role models for some of those younger students.
That's a good thing. As well.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Right, yeah, absolutely, so you want to be what you
can see, and having the year twelves on canvas means
that the year sevens can look and say, hey, I
want to do that. Those kids they're out doing work,
or they're doing a trade pathway, or they're doing high
level science. I want to do that too, and I
can aspire to it. In creating a comprehensive campus, though,
we do need to be aware that there are younger
kids mixing with the older kids, so we need to
(09:07):
put the right processes in place and manage those campuses
in a way that we don't cause any risk of kids.
But we're confident that we've got the right processes there.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, David R. Toy, the Department of Education and Training's
Executive Director of School Support, really appreciate your time this morning.
I know lots of parents listening will appreciate hearing from
you as well. So thanks so much for joining us
in the studio. Thanks Katie, thank you.
Now we know that middle schools in Darwin, Palmerston and
(00:02):
Alice Springs are going to be phased out to become
comprehensive high schools, with a handful of others set to
become specialized campuses. The Education Minister yesterday outlined how the
rollout will happen and joining us in the studio to
give us some further detail is the Department of Education's
Executive Director of School Support, David R. Toy. Good morning
(00:25):
to you, David, to be with you again. Yeah, good
to have you on the show. Now, there was four
weeks of consultation between the government and school councils. There
were students involved, families, educators, school communities and also peak bodies.
Now tell me what did that consultation tell the department?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yeah, thanks, Codie. So the last time we spoke, which
I think was in late March, we're in the middle
of our consultation. So over those four weeks we spoke
to every school council of affected schools, We spoke to
staff groups, we spoke to students, and we also ran
a joint online survey for all of those stakeholder groups
to get in touch with us. Through the survey, with
eleven hundred responses wow across the board, and generally there
(01:07):
was strong support. So we had eighty five percent of
teachers that were supported strongly supportive of neutral on the process,
seventy seven percent of parents and seventy nine percent of
students were supportive.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So really quite strong support, is Nash.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah, So I think people are supportive of the concept
in generally. Through that process, we also heard about a
lot of the things that we need to consider an implementation,
So part of it's about how we look after our
staff and also how we look after our students through
this change. We heard about infrastructure requirements and we need
to do up some classrooms to make them ready for
senior secondary students, and we need to make sure we've
(01:41):
got the right well being programs in place for the
students with additional needs or disability to transition.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
And so in terms of the concerns that were raised,
I mean you've touched on some of those infrastructure support,
making sure that you know the teachers and the students
have what they need. So how do you do all
of those things while also implementing these changes A.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Great question, Katie. So the implementation that we're proposing is
staged over three years. So we're going to start next
year in the Darwin and Palmerston schools where we'll be
looking at a single year level staying on at their school.
So for schools like Nycliff, Dripstone and Sanderson who are
for currently year sevens to nine, next year they'll be
offering a year ten subjects, our students will be allowed
(02:20):
to or able to stay at those schools. That way,
we can progressively roll out implementation over the three years
and support that cohort as it goes from year ten
to year eleven in twenty twenty seven, and finally in
year twelve and twenty twenty eight, and we'll have our
first graduating classes at the end of twenty twenty eight
from the new secondary system.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yeah right, So you touched on which schools are going
to be sort of taking the next steps as of
next year. How exactly is it going to happen? You know,
not only for the Education Department but to those parents
listening this morning, to those families listening, I know that
the biggest question that people sort of say to me
when we talk about middle schools being phased out is
(02:58):
what's it kind of going to look like it's some
of these schools.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah, thanks, So we circulated information to all of the
parents of year six students in the year nine students yesday.
So everybody should have a fact sheet and if you don't,
please reach out to your school principle around what's happening
for next year. So for the year nine students that
are currently attending middle schools, you don't need to change anything.
So you're enrollment for year ten will extend through at
the school that you are out at the moment. If
(03:23):
you do choose or want to explore education at another
school in the territory, you can also about yourself for
the enrollment process there for our year six students. For
most students it's business as usual, so what would have
occurred if we hadn't made any changes. So across Darwin
the year six prior to enrollment areas aren't changing. You'll
be attending the schools that you were expecting to attend
(03:43):
in year seven. The exception is for Palmerston. In Palmerston
we are establishing two full comprehensive schools where previously we
had Palmerston College split over two campuses at Driver in
Rosebery yep. Both of those schools will commence from next year.
So at the Driver Campus, if you're on the western
side of Armiston, year seven students from or year six
students this year will be transitioning to year seven at
(04:05):
the Driver Campus. At the Rosary campus, the year nine
will be staying onto year ten.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Okay, So let's say you're a year nine student at
Darwin Middle School currently and you know the school is
now obviously going into this comprehensive model. How's it going
to be different for those kids and for their families.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
So a couple of things in that for next year,
there's not going to be a lot of change for
the kids at Darwin Middle School, so though as they
would normally do move over to the Darwin High site
and start accessing the senior secondary education there. As we
progress through to twenty twenty eight, for the Darwinhei and
Darwen Middle schools, there will be a more integrated model
of education there. So that means that the teaching staff
(04:45):
may operate across both year seven, eight nine as well
as ten, eleven twelve. It also means that the middle
school kids get access to the great facilities in the
High or in the Senior Secondary campus and the students
in the senior secondary campus get access to the really
great facilities in the middle school as well as the
expertise there well.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
In terms of teaching and administration jobs or support jobs,
are we anticipating that any of those jobs are going
to be lost.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
No, so there won't be any job losses through this transition.
In fact, in the territory, like with the rest of
the Australia, we are in need of teachers and we're
constantly recruiting for more teachers. A big part of this
transition is actually supporting the staff that we've got and
building the capacity of those teachers that probably haven't taught
senior secondary for a while to be able to deliver
that full comprehensive education. Okay, that was a strong theme
(05:34):
of the review that happened in twenty twenty three that
teachers want to be able to see kids through from
year seven all the way through to year twelve.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Will you form a good rapport with students right and
some you know, like some kids do just gell with
different teachers in terms of the way in which they teach,
and it helps with the.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Attention as well for kids. If you're going from a
school where everybody knows you where you're comfortable with the
teaching staff. To a senior secondary school where you don't
know anyone, the chances are if things aren't going well,
you might choose not to go to.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Schooling, yeah, or you might slip through the gaps a
little bit, not really know who you can ask for
a bit of help. And I know the schools do
a lot to support kids, but it does make it
easier if you've got a familiar face and a teacher
that you know to be able to raise those things
sometimes absolutely in terms of the teachers and making sure
that they are up to date with delivering that curriculum
(06:20):
to different grades that they may not have been over
the last couple of years, what work has to happen there.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, So we've got a series of professional development opportunities
for the remainder of this year for our teachers that
haven't taught an anti Certificate of Education training for a
little while. So there's introductions to those subjects as well
as all of the curriculum and materials required at those
schools to stand it up. We're also hopeful that we'll
be working with our senior secondary teachers in established schools
particularly our lead teachers, to get them to support some
(06:48):
of the more junior teachers in developing their capacity.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Now, I know there've been some discussion yesterday with the
Education Minister as well about what those changes, all of
these changes are going to mean. And you talk about
students being involved in trades, is there going to be
more opportunity for kids to go down that stream.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah. One of the great parts of this announcement is
the establishment of specialized trade and industry colleges in Darwin
and in other springs, and we're also looking at those
options for Palmerston. So the specialized trade or technical college
will be a partnership with industry to support kids who
are interested in that vocational education pathway to develop the skills,
but also then move straight into employment after they finish.
(07:29):
So in other jurisdictions they've been seeing them up for
a little while and these become highly competitive facilities for
students that want to jump straight into industry.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
David to any parents listening this morning that you know,
maybe thinking to themselves, So I'm still not one hundred
percent sure about this change. I mean, why do you
think this is going to mean that students are better off?
Why will they be better off under this new model.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I think a big part is the opportunities available to students.
So with more comprehensive skills and more senior secondary provision
means we can provide different specialization across the territory, what
we in education call a differentiated response. So one of
those specializations is the trade pathways we've talked about. The
other is expediting university and Tree four professions where we
really need those workers in the territory like teachers and
(08:13):
healthcare professionals. So this change will mean there's more opportunities
to explore those specializations. It will also mean that kids
get better continuity through their secondary journey, so that the
teachers know them, they know the schools, and they become
comfortable where they are. We don't want to move kids
around too much because it tends to be at that
point that they drop out.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, and I also I always think as well about
that role modeling as well. From the older school students.
You know, when you've got the year twelves there, that
you're seeing them sort of behaving, you know in a
way that's good role models for some of those younger students.
That's a good thing. As well.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Right, yeah, absolutely, so you want to be what you
can see, and having the year twelves on canvas means
that the year sevens can look and say, hey, I
want to do that. Those kids they're out doing work,
or they're doing a trade pathway, or they're doing high
level science. I want to do that too, and I
can aspire to it. In creating a comprehensive campus, though,
we do need to be aware that there are younger
kids mixing with the older kids, so we need to
(09:07):
put the right processes in place and manage those campuses
in a way that we don't cause any risk of kids.
But we're confident that we've got the right processes there.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Well, David R. Toy, the Department of Education and Training's
Executive Director of School Support, really appreciate your time this morning.
I know lots of parents listening will appreciate hearing from
you as well. So thanks so much for joining us
in the studio. Thanks Katie, thank you.
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