Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well onto, an issue which shocked the nation last week,
a childcare worker in Victoria charged with more than seventy
offenses relating to allegations involving well very very young victims. Now,
as a result, the federal government is looking at reforms
that would standardize working with children checks across the country.
(00:21):
Joining us on the line is Early Childhood Australia's nt
General Manager Janet william Smith's good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Janet, good morning to you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, I
know the federal government's looking at reforms that will standardize
working with children checks across the country. What do you
think needs to happen here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think that's a really good move. I think standardizing
and nationalizing the Working with Children's check is one step
in the right direction, definitely. I think we need to
look at a national register for early childhood educators too,
so that we have a nationally consistent approach. I think
those are the things that we really need to push
forward through from a national perspective. That would obviously involve
(01:06):
the Northern Territory too. And the other thing that I
think that we really need to consider is looking at
a reportable conduct scheme here in the Northern Territory, talk.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Us through Janet if you can how like how that
register would work and then how the conduct side of
things would work.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think in some jurisdictions there is a reportable conduct
scheme and what that means is that services so people
who work in early childhood services, educators, teachers and providers
are obliged to report any conduct, any misconduct, or any
any concerns around misconduct that they see in early childhood
education and care settings. Now, that's a really important scheme
(01:46):
that really helps to very early in the piece, recognize
any concerns that colleagues might have about the way that
their colleagues might be working with children, and that reportable
conduct scheme then identify with children. We don't have the
reportable conduct scheme in the Northern Territory. I think it
would be a really good thing for us to think
(02:08):
about doing that. They're having Victorias New South Wales.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And the other thing that I think is important is
that if we had a national working with children's check,
that's not that's not gonna that's not going to do
it on its own, that is not going to do it.
That's going to be one one of a number of
things that we need to do that will contribute to
keeping children safe in our early childhood settings.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It seems like it seems odd to me that it's
not already happening.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Agreed, agreed, completely agreed. Yeah, the sector, Yeah, absolutely, one
hundred percent. So I think this is this is a
moment in time where I think people have just absolutely
woken up to the fact that these are recommendations that
have been in place for a while, and these are
things that need to happen now. So a national register
and national working with Children's check every jurisdiction across the country,
(02:56):
having a reportable conduct scheme. What that does is it
enables us to share information about people that are working
in children. That's a really important thing that we need
to do. I could say this that, you know, we've
got to be really clear here that this kind of
thing is quite what's happened is dreadful, and I have
to say this from an early childhood perspective, the sector
(03:18):
is devastated. We have so many committed people in this sector,
so many talented, skilled and committed early childhood educators and
teachers that are absolutely devastated by this, and we want
to do things that are going to change there. But
this kind of behavior is really covert. You know, this
has been going on for quite some years with this
(03:39):
particular situation. So we need to share information about people.
We need to be able to say what you know,
what's going on in Sydney, we know about it. In
the Northern Territory, what's going on in South Australia, we
know about it in Queensland. It's a big country. People
can move around, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, this is the thing, and sometimes, like you, you know,
you've look, I'm not an expert in this space, but
you find that people are predatory. They will move around,
they'll do things to try and get past the system.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's right. And I think the other thing that's really important,
really building on what you're saying there, is that we
need more than one set of eyes on children all
of the time. You know, child safety doesn't just exist
in the rooms that children are in. Child safety needs
to be at policy, it needs to be at regulation,
and it needs to be at legislation levels two. And
(04:27):
I think that in the rooms that we're in with children,
we need more than one set of eyes on children
all the time because this kind of behavior is covert.
You know, we need anything that we can do that
will support the safety of children, the supervision of children,
the relationships that staff have with each other when they're
working together to care and educate children. It's really important
(04:47):
people understanding their delegations in the rooms when they're with children.
What's my job, what's my role, what's my obligation? Who
will listen to me if I'm worried about something, and
who can I talk to? It's very hard to see
something that you maybe you know, a colleague doing something
that you think is a little bit like, oh, I
don't feel very comfortable about that. You know, it's quite
(05:09):
difficult to come forward and say I feel a really
worried about that if you're not going to be listened to.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's why child safety exists at that higher level too,
welcoming people's concerns. I'm here to listen, yeah, Janet.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I mean one of the things that people have said
over and over again over the last few days is
how on earth, you know, was this person able to
be in a room with a child for a you know,
for a period of time that they're able to engage
in this disgusting, disgraceful behavior.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It beggars belief.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It does.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, it beggars belief. And I think that's that's that's
what we're talking about here. What you're talking about is
almost unbelievable, isn't it. You know, when you actually say
it out loud like that, it's almost unbelievable. What we
have to be really clear about is how we supervised
children together as a team of people. Early childhood educators
in rooms need to work together their relationships with each
(06:08):
other in relation to understanding what are the rules in
this room, what are the tools that we have available
to help us, and what are the delegations. Who's doing
what here, Who's going to listen to me if I'm
worried about something, Who's watching these children collectively together? It's
more complex than just one thing. There's a number of
(06:28):
things that have been discussed over the last ten days.
One is, you know, the supervision of children, One is
the National Working with Children's Tecks CCTV. All of these
things have been talked about, all of them. If any
of that contributes to the safety of children, let's collectively
look at what we can do to bring all of
that together to make sure that children are say.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
In terms of last week, the Northern Territory News is
reporting that more than one hundred childcare centers across the
Northern Territory have gone years without an assessment by the
Northern Territory Regulator. Do you know much about that? And
in your eyes is that acceptable?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I think we do need to make sure that we
are much much more vigilant around the regulation and the
rating and the assessment processes. Do you know what I think? Right?
We have a fantastic system in place in this country.
It actually is world renowned. We have a National Early
Years Learning Framework, we have a national quality framework and
national quality standards. The system is fantastic. We've just got
(07:25):
to use it better, you know. We've got to make
sure that we implement the systems, the regulations and the
frameworks to the maximum. We do have a really good system.
We mustn't throw the baby out with the bath water here.
We do have really good systems in place. Each jurisdiction
operates differently. That's another thing. Regulators are jurisdictionally based. You know.
(07:48):
We have a different regulator here, a different regulator in
different states. And territories with a National Quality Authority that
sets the national quality framework. We've got to be much
much better at implementing what we've got. These are the
tools that we have to keep people safe. We have
a good framework and a good standard that can keep
children safe. We need to use it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I know some people have called for CCTV to be
in childcare centers. I mean, what are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think we need a sweet things. I can't. I
don't think it's one thing. I don't think CCTV alone
is going to crack this. I really don't. I think
if that's going to help keep children safe, if that's
going to support people to feel like that's going to
help anything that goes towards keeping children safe. I actually
believe we need to look at some of the more
complex things that happen in early childhood education and care.
(08:36):
I don't know whether you've had children go through early
child perfection care. Well so have I. And you know
my children love their early child's educators. My son used
to come home talking about his early childo center soo
he went to sleep at night. It drive me up
the wall. I was like, I'm your mother, Actually it
drives me up the wall. So what we have to
understand is what these people mean to children. Yeah, our
children love these people. Yeah, you know, they actually do.
(08:59):
And when you're looking after other people's children when they're
very young, you join that family for a while, whether
you like it or not. Yeah, So we've got to
make sure that we attend to that. We attend to
that relationship with strong, strong regulations, strong frameworks, strong rules,
and strong policies because it is an intimate business well,
(09:19):
and looking after other people's children.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Is absolutely And the thing that I think is, you know,
is really sort of distressing as well. Over the last
week or so. It is even this morning. You know,
I've got somebody messaging saying, Katie, as a parent with
a child at childcare, I'm questioning whether I want to
send my child to childcare anymore. And you know this
is a really sad part.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, my son's just had a child
and I spoke to his partner and she said exactly
the same to me, I'm not sure I want him
to go to childcare now. And I just thought, what
a shame. You know, my children learnt so much. And
also children have a right to access high quality early
childhood education.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Absolutely, they have.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
A right to do that, and I think we have
to protect that system and we have to protect that
right and to do this.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
We can do this, and a large majority of childcare
workers are incredible. You know, my kids are like the
child Yeah, like the childcare workers that you know who
used to look after my children are mine a long
out of childcare now, but they honestly, you know, they
have beautiful They were helping me raise my kids and
(10:29):
doing everything by doing everything in in you know, the
way that you would expect and hope and then to
have you know, a grub of a human behaving in
the way that he has in Victoria. You know, it
is not the majority. It is certainly not the majority.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Can I just say, Katie, I'm so pleased that you
said that, because I have to tell you, I think
so many parents will listen to what you're saying and say,
that's exactly how I feel. That's how I feel too.
The influence that early childhood educators have on children's growth
and development and their learning is absolutely it's a game changer.
When we put our children into early childhood education care,
(11:08):
they're growing their brains now, having a contribution to that
is a really big task and it's a really big
responsibility and most people in the sector do that with love,
care and attention. Yeah, and your experience of your children
is that they loved their early childhood educator yep, and
that they had a relationship with them that helped them flourish.
(11:28):
Now that's the system that we have, and that's the
system that we have to protect. We have to protect them.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So from your perspective in terms of what should and
you know it could be happening. I mean we've really
run through that already on a national stage. But you know,
as early Childhood Australia is into general manager, you know
what assurances I guess can you give those listening this
morning that certainly you and I think the whole childcare
(11:55):
sector in the Northern Territory will be fighting really for
this change because you guys want to be able to
do jobs I would assume in a way that you've
always been able to without having to worry about people
like that entering the system.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Of course, absolutely, and thank you for the question. We
really need to look at these national regulations. We need
to look at a national register and we need to
join forces across the country and hold hands and share
information about the people that are working with our children.
The majority of people in this sector are in the
sector because they want to be involved in the development
(12:32):
and the teaching of children. But there are going to
be occasions like we've had this in the last two weeks,
which has just been abominable. We have to join up.
We need to be able to share information across states
and territories. We need a national register. We should have
a reportable conduct scheme in the Northern Territory so that
we can actually encourage people that really are doing a
(12:54):
fantastic job with our kids. You know what. You can
raise the alarm and say, well, I'm really worried about that.
But what if I'm wrong? My question is, what if
you're right. If you make a miss, If you see
something that you're worried about and you're worried about it
because you think it might not be what you think
it is, tell somebody, because if you're wrong, it's a mistake.
If you're right, you're protecting a child. Don't ever shy away.
(13:17):
Don't ever shy away from speaking out about anything that
you're concerned about. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, I agree with you, Janet. I really appreciate your
time this morning. Thank you very much for having.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
A chance and a very important conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think it is to.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Attending to it in the way you are. It is
really important. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
No worry, thank you,
Well onto, an issue which shocked the nation last week,
a childcare worker in Victoria charged with more than seventy
offenses relating to allegations involving well very very young victims. Now,
as a result, the federal government is looking at reforms
that would standardize working with children checks across the country.
(00:21):
Joining us on the line is Early Childhood Australia's nt
General Manager Janet william Smith's good morning to you.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Janet, good morning to you.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, I
know the federal government's looking at reforms that will standardize
working with children checks across the country. What do you
think needs to happen here in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I think that's a really good move. I think standardizing
and nationalizing the Working with Children's check is one step
in the right direction, definitely. I think we need to
look at a national register for early childhood educators too,
so that we have a nationally consistent approach. I think
those are the things that we really need to push
forward through from a national perspective. That would obviously involve
(01:06):
the Northern Territory too. And the other thing that I
think that we really need to consider is looking at
a reportable conduct scheme here in the Northern Territory, talk.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Us through Janet if you can how like how that
register would work and then how the conduct side of
things would work.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I think in some jurisdictions there is a reportable conduct
scheme and what that means is that services so people
who work in early childhood services, educators, teachers and providers
are obliged to report any conduct, any misconduct, or any
any concerns around misconduct that they see in early childhood
education and care settings. Now, that's a really important scheme
(01:46):
that really helps to very early in the piece, recognize
any concerns that colleagues might have about the way that
their colleagues might be working with children, and that reportable
conduct scheme then identify with children. We don't have the
reportable conduct scheme in the Northern Territory. I think it
would be a really good thing for us to think
(02:08):
about doing that. They're having Victorias New South Wales.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And the other thing that I think is important is
that if we had a national working with children's check,
that's not that's not gonna that's not going to do
it on its own, that is not going to do it.
That's going to be one one of a number of
things that we need to do that will contribute to
keeping children safe in our early childhood settings.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
It seems like it seems odd to me that it's
not already happening.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Agreed, agreed, completely agreed. Yeah, the sector, Yeah, absolutely, one
hundred percent. So I think this is this is a
moment in time where I think people have just absolutely
woken up to the fact that these are recommendations that
have been in place for a while, and these are
things that need to happen now. So a national register
and national working with Children's check every jurisdiction across the country,
(02:56):
having a reportable conduct scheme. What that does is it
enables us to share information about people that are working
in children. That's a really important thing that we need
to do. I could say this that, you know, we've
got to be really clear here that this kind of
thing is quite what's happened is dreadful, and I have
to say this from an early childhood perspective, the sector
(03:18):
is devastated. We have so many committed people in this sector,
so many talented, skilled and committed early childhood educators and
teachers that are absolutely devastated by this, and we want
to do things that are going to change there. But
this kind of behavior is really covert. You know, this
has been going on for quite some years with this
(03:39):
particular situation. So we need to share information about people.
We need to be able to say what you know,
what's going on in Sydney, we know about it. In
the Northern Territory, what's going on in South Australia, we
know about it in Queensland. It's a big country. People
can move around, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, this is the thing, and sometimes, like you, you know,
you've look, I'm not an expert in this space, but
you find that people are predatory. They will move around,
they'll do things to try and get past the system.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That's right. And I think the other thing that's really important,
really building on what you're saying there, is that we
need more than one set of eyes on children all
of the time. You know, child safety doesn't just exist
in the rooms that children are in. Child safety needs
to be at policy, it needs to be at regulation,
and it needs to be at legislation levels two. And
(04:27):
I think that in the rooms that we're in with children,
we need more than one set of eyes on children
all the time because this kind of behavior is covert.
You know, we need anything that we can do that
will support the safety of children, the supervision of children,
the relationships that staff have with each other when they're
working together to care and educate children. It's really important
(04:47):
people understanding their delegations in the rooms when they're with children.
What's my job, what's my role, what's my obligation? Who
will listen to me if I'm worried about something, and
who can I talk to? It's very hard to see
something that you maybe you know, a colleague doing something
that you think is a little bit like, oh, I
don't feel very comfortable about that. You know, it's quite
(05:09):
difficult to come forward and say I feel a really
worried about that if you're not going to be listened to.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
That's why child safety exists at that higher level too,
welcoming people's concerns. I'm here to listen, yeah, Janet.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I mean one of the things that people have said
over and over again over the last few days is
how on earth, you know, was this person able to
be in a room with a child for a you know,
for a period of time that they're able to engage
in this disgusting, disgraceful behavior.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
It beggars belief.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It does.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, it beggars belief. And I think that's that's that's
what we're talking about here. What you're talking about is
almost unbelievable, isn't it. You know, when you actually say
it out loud like that, it's almost unbelievable. What we
have to be really clear about is how we supervised
children together as a team of people. Early childhood educators
in rooms need to work together their relationships with each
(06:08):
other in relation to understanding what are the rules in
this room, what are the tools that we have available
to help us, and what are the delegations. Who's doing
what here, Who's going to listen to me if I'm
worried about something, Who's watching these children collectively together? It's
more complex than just one thing. There's a number of
(06:28):
things that have been discussed over the last ten days.
One is, you know, the supervision of children, One is
the National Working with Children's Tecks CCTV. All of these
things have been talked about, all of them. If any
of that contributes to the safety of children, let's collectively
look at what we can do to bring all of
that together to make sure that children are say.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
In terms of last week, the Northern Territory News is
reporting that more than one hundred childcare centers across the
Northern Territory have gone years without an assessment by the
Northern Territory Regulator. Do you know much about that? And
in your eyes is that acceptable?
Speaker 2 (07:04):
I think we do need to make sure that we
are much much more vigilant around the regulation and the
rating and the assessment processes. Do you know what I think? Right?
We have a fantastic system in place in this country.
It actually is world renowned. We have a National Early
Years Learning Framework, we have a national quality framework and
national quality standards. The system is fantastic. We've just got
(07:25):
to use it better, you know. We've got to make
sure that we implement the systems, the regulations and the
frameworks to the maximum. We do have a really good system.
We mustn't throw the baby out with the bath water here.
We do have really good systems in place. Each jurisdiction
operates differently. That's another thing. Regulators are jurisdictionally based. You know.
(07:48):
We have a different regulator here, a different regulator in
different states. And territories with a National Quality Authority that
sets the national quality framework. We've got to be much
much better at implementing what we've got. These are the
tools that we have to keep people safe. We have
a good framework and a good standard that can keep
children safe. We need to use it.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
I know some people have called for CCTV to be
in childcare centers. I mean, what are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I think we need a sweet things. I can't. I
don't think it's one thing. I don't think CCTV alone
is going to crack this. I really don't. I think
if that's going to help keep children safe, if that's
going to support people to feel like that's going to
help anything that goes towards keeping children safe. I actually
believe we need to look at some of the more
complex things that happen in early childhood education and care.
(08:36):
I don't know whether you've had children go through early
child perfection care. Well so have I. And you know
my children love their early child's educators. My son used
to come home talking about his early childo center soo
he went to sleep at night. It drive me up
the wall. I was like, I'm your mother, Actually it
drives me up the wall. So what we have to
understand is what these people mean to children. Yeah, our
children love these people. Yeah, you know, they actually do.
(08:59):
And when you're looking after other people's children when they're
very young, you join that family for a while, whether
you like it or not. Yeah, So we've got to
make sure that we attend to that. We attend to
that relationship with strong, strong regulations, strong frameworks, strong rules,
and strong policies because it is an intimate business well,
(09:19):
and looking after other people's children.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Is absolutely And the thing that I think is, you know,
is really sort of distressing as well. Over the last
week or so. It is even this morning. You know,
I've got somebody messaging saying, Katie, as a parent with
a child at childcare, I'm questioning whether I want to
send my child to childcare anymore. And you know this
is a really sad part.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, my son's just had a child
and I spoke to his partner and she said exactly
the same to me, I'm not sure I want him
to go to childcare now. And I just thought, what
a shame. You know, my children learnt so much. And
also children have a right to access high quality early
childhood education.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Absolutely, they have.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
A right to do that, and I think we have
to protect that system and we have to protect that
right and to do this.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
We can do this, and a large majority of childcare
workers are incredible. You know, my kids are like the
child Yeah, like the childcare workers that you know who
used to look after my children are mine a long
out of childcare now, but they honestly, you know, they
have beautiful They were helping me raise my kids and
(10:29):
doing everything by doing everything in in you know, the
way that you would expect and hope and then to
have you know, a grub of a human behaving in
the way that he has in Victoria. You know, it
is not the majority. It is certainly not the majority.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Can I just say, Katie, I'm so pleased that you
said that, because I have to tell you, I think
so many parents will listen to what you're saying and say,
that's exactly how I feel. That's how I feel too.
The influence that early childhood educators have on children's growth
and development and their learning is absolutely it's a game changer.
When we put our children into early childhood education care,
(11:08):
they're growing their brains now, having a contribution to that
is a really big task and it's a really big
responsibility and most people in the sector do that with love,
care and attention. Yeah, and your experience of your children
is that they loved their early childhood educator yep, and
that they had a relationship with them that helped them flourish.
(11:28):
Now that's the system that we have, and that's the
system that we have to protect. We have to protect them.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So from your perspective in terms of what should and
you know it could be happening. I mean we've really
run through that already on a national stage. But you know,
as early Childhood Australia is into general manager, you know
what assurances I guess can you give those listening this
morning that certainly you and I think the whole childcare
(11:55):
sector in the Northern Territory will be fighting really for
this change because you guys want to be able to
do jobs I would assume in a way that you've
always been able to without having to worry about people
like that entering the system.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Of course, absolutely, and thank you for the question. We
really need to look at these national regulations. We need
to look at a national register and we need to
join forces across the country and hold hands and share
information about the people that are working with our children.
The majority of people in this sector are in the
sector because they want to be involved in the development
(12:32):
and the teaching of children. But there are going to
be occasions like we've had this in the last two weeks,
which has just been abominable. We have to join up.
We need to be able to share information across states
and territories. We need a national register. We should have
a reportable conduct scheme in the Northern Territory so that
we can actually encourage people that really are doing a
(12:54):
fantastic job with our kids. You know what. You can
raise the alarm and say, well, I'm really worried about that.
But what if I'm wrong? My question is, what if
you're right. If you make a miss, If you see
something that you're worried about and you're worried about it
because you think it might not be what you think
it is, tell somebody, because if you're wrong, it's a mistake.
If you're right, you're protecting a child. Don't ever shy away.
(13:17):
Don't ever shy away from speaking out about anything that
you're concerned about. That's my opinion.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, I agree with you, Janet. I really appreciate your
time this morning. Thank you very much for having.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
A chance and a very important conversation.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I think it is to.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Attending to it in the way you are. It is
really important. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
No worry, thank you,
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