Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But we know that East Arnham, roper Golf and Victoria
Daily regional councils. They've called for an urgent review of
councils in eligibility to implement the federal Government's new Remote
Australian Employment Service Program. Now rope Goolf Regional Council Mayor
Tony Jack had said that despite meeting every criteria to
(00:21):
provide services for the new training and Employment scheme, regional
councils are told that they are not Aboriginal enough to participate. Now,
he said, our joint membership of council and local authorities
is overwhelmingly Aboriginal. We are Aboriginal control. We are local
Aboriginal people elected by local Aboriginal people, and we challenge
(00:46):
the notion that local government does not meet this criteria.
Now joining me in the studio this morning, East Arnham
Regional Councilor Cyril Bucker Lunchbeak. Good morning to you, Cyril.
I think I mispronounced that's and I might lovely to
have you in the studio.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thanks for having me here, Katie. The reason why they
are may calling us non Aboriginal is because we are
not for profit.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We do.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Make things right in our community and the money that
we have, we spend it all in the community. We
don't take them as for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
They're delivering it all.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Were delivered to the services and all the all the
providers who may be able to collaborate with us, and
we we are. We've always been happy to share all
of our careers, works and training and work with the community.
(01:53):
Everybody loves it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yep. Well, Cyril, it's good to have you in the studio.
You are joined a school of course this morning is
well by Dale Caine, the CEO of East Anham Regional Council.
So I really appreciate you both joining us in the studio.
I mean, Cyril, from your perspective, like when you know
when you learned that you know that you wouldn't be
(02:15):
able that the council wouldn't be able to provide these
services because the council wasn't Aboriginal enough. I mean, what
did you think of that?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It was really irritating to hear what people said about
our community councils because we are councils and we are
local authority. We have been working with the community for
so many years and we helped so much. Your Aboriginal
(02:51):
people in our community and hearing this, it's it's really
disappointing and they have not learn so much about us,
what we do in the community and for the community.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So your council, like the people that are on council
are they all Aboriginal?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
They are Aboriginal. There's like yeah, and we make the decision,
not our CEO or the officers. We make the decision
who and what do you want to do for the community.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, so I mean Dale, as the CEO, what like,
what do you make of this decision that you know,
to be told that the council isn't Aboriginal enough when
everybody on the council is Aboriginal, I don't understand the
decision behind it.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Look, it's it's really really frustrating. And you know, I
started working up and he's done on land twenty one
years ago. And I'm a Balander, so non Aboriginal. But
I'll tell you it is great, great pride that I
keep working for these amazing leaders in the council and
the local thority members across the whole region. But look,
we've been battling this actually for a few years. Our
council and others in the NT forward across the NT
(04:02):
and nationally for recognition of Aboriginal Community control councils. And
then nationally we feel well because there's other communities aren't
like East Aarnham and rope Golf, et cetera, where it's
so strong. It was fifty percent, just over fifty percent
for the national but we're way over there. We're one
hundred percent. Robiga's like ninety Aboriginal people running everything. So
you know about the preference we've found over the years,
(04:24):
and it's come out here with this new CDP program
application is there's a clear preference one hundred percent for
Aboriginal corporations and then the next one is Aboriginal businesses
and you need just over fifty percent on your board.
And and then then we're if they if any time
we've seen we were talking all the other councils, now
if any local all was involved, even if they're partnering
(04:47):
and rope Golf one's partner with a Ballander, a Western
non Aboriginal company in Queensland. They've won it for one
of the regions of rope of Golf, you know they
lost to out of their three for example. We have
so so that's just free. We find that crazy. And
we have also then interned the governance and the capacity
and always looping back and fed by the community what
they want this program or anything else.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And so has by the sounds of it, this federal
government program has changed over recent years, has it and
the way in which you can win a job?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, it's like about in our case, like rope Golf
and Big Daily are providing it today to this day
over the last few years ongoing. We pulled out about
twelve thirteen years ago because already it was eroded so much.
They still paying top up money, proper wage money, paying
you through your employer whoever that is a homeland or
arranger group or whatever it was, and not enough operational money.
(05:38):
So it was just like you're uncandling, and there's Bunday
Bundy one, he's one of our great long serving councilors
puts it. Now people are getting peanut money. So the
new program is great. Finally now now in Melanury and Marion,
we say hats off to them. We're really really supportive
that they'd been fighting and listening to a community to
get a proper program. So that's why we are putting
for it again.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Finally, like I would imagine Cyril that what you want
as a counselor is you want local Aboriginal people to
have that work and to be paid for that work.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yes, I definitely want to have this kind of work.
Is because we understand what people need in the community
and they have gave a lot of trust on us
as a counselors and local authority and council workers. It's
unoriginal council workers. And from my perspective, I really love
(06:33):
this project and I really want to have my people
in it. So it's really important. You know, when you
have a lot of councilors that are elderly and a
lot of local authority that are emerging and also leaders
for the communities, it is best to have that kind
(06:56):
of balance for the community and for the people across
note is anam Land and for those children as well, QUI, because.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You want opportunities absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
And for example, people when kids are graduating at school,
they don't usually go to outpass CDP. They just wander
off and do nothing for example. And that's why we
need personally, as myself, your war from that community. We
want this program for the your own community to actually
(07:32):
get a career and a pathway for their future.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You want to you want that work, you want to
be able to do it, you want the opportunity when
you finish school.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Absolutely, they want a proper job because we don't want
to spend so much money in expensive groceries that has
been selled you know, for your community then because some
of us we leave in a centillent money and peanut
money and we cannot afford those kinds of groceries.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And you want your own you want your own money,
you want to work, you want your own money. I
think that's absolutely fair enough.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
We want to want we want to build taxes for
the government where we want to tick their boxes. That's
what they want. Yes, so this is that's so what needs.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
To change here? I mean this is like I know
that sometimes when you talk about you know, federal programs
that you know that that certainly things can happen and
sometimes councils or sometimes you know, different organizations might fall
through the gap in some way. But you know, what
do you think needs to change here so that you
can ensure that you know that local Aboriginal people are
(08:34):
getting these jobs and winning these jobs through the council,
through Eastannham Regional Council.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Katie. I think that's a great question and what we
really feel in councils and the other two councilors Very Gotham,
Big Daily particularly affected by all this is we need
the definition and what an average on community control organization
is to be broadened. We fully recognize one hundred percent
the average and corporations and businesses and respect and work
with them, like Syriah was saying, a partner and every day,
(08:59):
but we're being excluded did so at the end of
the day because they're ahead of us in the queue
and that's why it's fairly rarely no councils have been selected.
So that definition needs to be open because Aboriginal people
in this in effect really are not being listened to.
This average organizations of big proper elected local governments some
being listened to, and then they would see everything that
(09:20):
we've got right in addition everything they're the key points
about staff and the relationships and communities and we're not
fly and flay out. We're not based in Queensland, we're
not based in Darwin. Every one of our from age
here children's services and we'll be doing the same. We're here,
we'd have coordinators and managers living in community and we
have the houses for that. We have the training facilities
for inside and outside outdoor training. But that would that
(09:43):
could then be seen and if you look at that
in the application equally, we I believe very firmly we
would win, particularly because in our region and the other regions,
those organizations rely on our council's infrastructure that has been
there for decades for the Milan gim Me Council, Galouinku
ser Community Ramming, guinning and those, those facilities are there
(10:07):
and at the moment these new applicants are coming in.
One is an ongoing provider, but the leasers are going
to run out soon, and council as saying, hey, look,
we really think it'd be best. We'll just take care
of training ourselves, thanks very much, and we'll use that
for you know, Cyril has been saying, hey and counselor
love youth justice, youth engagement facilities places where we don't
get chuck kids in a Dondale enbronment enbronment. But we
(10:30):
in Community Syria talk to me about that three years
ago that we would repurpose those if we had to,
because we know there's such a need there, and we
keep getting no from both levels governed on that about
we don't have the money for facilities. So so but
we'd rather focus on this because if we could get
the race program and work with all the homelands and
all the other organizations, we could actually have programs for
youth justice and engagement.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well. But also you can have opportunities for people out
on communities. So maybe they don't engage.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So they're like Cyril's saying, sure, people want to work,
they want to make their own living. Yeah, I don't
want to be dependent on it.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And also there's a lot of Aboriginals living in rural
not part of the rural community, away from rural community.
So and they also wanted that kind of project for
them to also run in the outstations community. Yeah, for them,
for the road safety, for the solar system, for the powers,
(11:27):
that is what they need. Then it's something that has
to be built. And yeah, it's it's really complicated when
you're down in grassroots and you can't imagine how complex
it is.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
But you guys want to do that work. You want
to get stuck into it. So I mean we're too
next have you. I'm assuming that you've met with with
MELANDERI McCarthy, the Minister for Indigenous Australians at some point,
but I'm guessing you're wanting to catch up with her
or Marion stream Dure again.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, look, I bumped in a Marian and it was
great catch up with us. She's a good friend of
our counselor and Melandary too. We totally respect, as I
said before, but we are seeking a meeting late last
week and we're seeking it actually tomorrow as well, you know,
because the Minister and Malandary couldn't do it together. Sorry
and Marion last week. But we've got to all the
councilors coming up again like they did last week, the
(12:19):
three councilors, Victorily Repert Golf and ourselves. They're flying out
the rest of today and our other delegation coming in
with Cyril joined Cyril. But that's the meeting we're seeking
and we understand. Yeah, we just want that to happen,
even if you eat Nissa dialing. I think she might
be in Canberra or somewhere, but you know, on teams
we can do that. We can do that, and Marion,
we understands in town, which is great, and to meet
(12:42):
together and to be able to hear each other on this.
We don't want to be in trenches on this, that's all.
We want to work together and just see a way
forward on this because it's so historically important after all
these years. And finally, seriously, it's about twelve odd years
since we've had a decent proper CDP and it's a
great opportunity and we really just want to work together
on how to make that happen.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, look, I really appreciate you both coming into Darwin
and having a chat with me this morning. East Darnham
Regional Counselor Cyril Bucker Lutchbe and of course Dale Keene
the CEO. Thank you both so very much for joining
me this morning. I really appreciate your time. Yeah, you too,
Thank you,
But we know that East Arnham, roper Golf and Victoria
Daily regional councils. They've called for an urgent review of
councils in eligibility to implement the federal Government's new Remote
Australian Employment Service Program. Now rope Goolf Regional Council Mayor
Tony Jack had said that despite meeting every criteria to
(00:21):
provide services for the new training and Employment scheme, regional
councils are told that they are not Aboriginal enough to participate. Now,
he said, our joint membership of council and local authorities
is overwhelmingly Aboriginal. We are Aboriginal control. We are local
Aboriginal people elected by local Aboriginal people, and we challenge
(00:46):
the notion that local government does not meet this criteria.
Now joining me in the studio this morning, East Arnham
Regional Councilor Cyril Bucker Lunchbeak. Good morning to you, Cyril.
I think I mispronounced that's and I might lovely to
have you in the studio.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Thanks for having me here, Katie. The reason why they
are may calling us non Aboriginal is because we are
not for profit.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We do.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Make things right in our community and the money that
we have, we spend it all in the community. We
don't take them as for ourselves.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
They're delivering it all.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Were delivered to the services and all the all the
providers who may be able to collaborate with us, and
we we are. We've always been happy to share all
of our careers, works and training and work with the community.
(01:53):
Everybody loves it.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yep. Well, Cyril, it's good to have you in the studio.
You are joined a school of course this morning is
well by Dale Caine, the CEO of East Anham Regional Council.
So I really appreciate you both joining us in the studio.
I mean, Cyril, from your perspective, like when you know
when you learned that you know that you wouldn't be
(02:15):
able that the council wouldn't be able to provide these
services because the council wasn't Aboriginal enough. I mean, what
did you think of that?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
It was really irritating to hear what people said about
our community councils because we are councils and we are
local authority. We have been working with the community for
so many years and we helped so much. Your Aboriginal
(02:51):
people in our community and hearing this, it's it's really
disappointing and they have not learn so much about us,
what we do in the community and for the community.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
So your council, like the people that are on council
are they all Aboriginal?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
They are Aboriginal. There's like yeah, and we make the decision,
not our CEO or the officers. We make the decision
who and what do you want to do for the community.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, so I mean Dale, as the CEO, what like,
what do you make of this decision that you know,
to be told that the council isn't Aboriginal enough when
everybody on the council is Aboriginal, I don't understand the
decision behind it.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Look, it's it's really really frustrating. And you know, I
started working up and he's done on land twenty one
years ago. And I'm a Balander, so non Aboriginal. But
I'll tell you it is great, great pride that I
keep working for these amazing leaders in the council and
the local thority members across the whole region. But look,
we've been battling this actually for a few years. Our
council and others in the NT forward across the NT
(04:02):
and nationally for recognition of Aboriginal Community control councils. And
then nationally we feel well because there's other communities aren't
like East Aarnham and rope Golf, et cetera, where it's
so strong. It was fifty percent, just over fifty percent
for the national but we're way over there. We're one
hundred percent. Robiga's like ninety Aboriginal people running everything. So
you know about the preference we've found over the years,
(04:24):
and it's come out here with this new CDP program
application is there's a clear preference one hundred percent for
Aboriginal corporations and then the next one is Aboriginal businesses
and you need just over fifty percent on your board.
And and then then we're if they if any time
we've seen we were talking all the other councils, now
if any local all was involved, even if they're partnering
(04:47):
and rope Golf one's partner with a Ballander, a Western
non Aboriginal company in Queensland. They've won it for one
of the regions of rope of Golf, you know they
lost to out of their three for example. We have
so so that's just free. We find that crazy. And
we have also then interned the governance and the capacity
and always looping back and fed by the community what
they want this program or anything else.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And so has by the sounds of it, this federal
government program has changed over recent years, has it and
the way in which you can win a job?
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Yeah, it's like about in our case, like rope Golf
and Big Daily are providing it today to this day
over the last few years ongoing. We pulled out about
twelve thirteen years ago because already it was eroded so much.
They still paying top up money, proper wage money, paying
you through your employer whoever that is a homeland or
arranger group or whatever it was, and not enough operational money.
(05:38):
So it was just like you're uncandling, and there's Bunday
Bundy one, he's one of our great long serving councilors
puts it. Now people are getting peanut money. So the
new program is great. Finally now now in Melanury and Marion,
we say hats off to them. We're really really supportive
that they'd been fighting and listening to a community to
get a proper program. So that's why we are putting
for it again.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Finally, like I would imagine Cyril that what you want
as a counselor is you want local Aboriginal people to
have that work and to be paid for that work.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yes, I definitely want to have this kind of work.
Is because we understand what people need in the community
and they have gave a lot of trust on us
as a counselors and local authority and council workers. It's
unoriginal council workers. And from my perspective, I really love
(06:33):
this project and I really want to have my people
in it. So it's really important. You know, when you
have a lot of councilors that are elderly and a
lot of local authority that are emerging and also leaders
for the communities, it is best to have that kind
(06:56):
of balance for the community and for the people across
note is anam Land and for those children as well, QUI, because.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
You want opportunities absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
And for example, people when kids are graduating at school,
they don't usually go to outpass CDP. They just wander
off and do nothing for example. And that's why we
need personally, as myself, your war from that community. We
want this program for the your own community to actually
(07:32):
get a career and a pathway for their future.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
You want to you want that work, you want to
be able to do it, you want the opportunity when
you finish school.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Absolutely, they want a proper job because we don't want
to spend so much money in expensive groceries that has
been selled you know, for your community then because some
of us we leave in a centillent money and peanut
money and we cannot afford those kinds of groceries.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
And you want your own you want your own money,
you want to work, you want your own money. I
think that's absolutely fair enough.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
We want to want we want to build taxes for
the government where we want to tick their boxes. That's
what they want. Yes, so this is that's so what needs.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
To change here? I mean this is like I know
that sometimes when you talk about you know, federal programs
that you know that that certainly things can happen and
sometimes councils or sometimes you know, different organizations might fall
through the gap in some way. But you know, what
do you think needs to change here so that you
can ensure that you know that local Aboriginal people are
(08:34):
getting these jobs and winning these jobs through the council,
through Eastannham Regional Council.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Katie. I think that's a great question and what we
really feel in councils and the other two councilors Very Gotham,
Big Daily particularly affected by all this is we need
the definition and what an average on community control organization
is to be broadened. We fully recognize one hundred percent
the average and corporations and businesses and respect and work
with them, like Syriah was saying, a partner and every day,
(08:59):
but we're being excluded did so at the end of
the day because they're ahead of us in the queue
and that's why it's fairly rarely no councils have been selected.
So that definition needs to be open because Aboriginal people
in this in effect really are not being listened to.
This average organizations of big proper elected local governments some
being listened to, and then they would see everything that
(09:20):
we've got right in addition everything they're the key points
about staff and the relationships and communities and we're not
fly and flay out. We're not based in Queensland, we're
not based in Darwin. Every one of our from age
here children's services and we'll be doing the same. We're here,
we'd have coordinators and managers living in community and we
have the houses for that. We have the training facilities
for inside and outside outdoor training. But that would that
(09:43):
could then be seen and if you look at that
in the application equally, we I believe very firmly we
would win, particularly because in our region and the other regions,
those organizations rely on our council's infrastructure that has been
there for decades for the Milan gim Me Council, Galouinku
ser Community Ramming, guinning and those, those facilities are there
(10:07):
and at the moment these new applicants are coming in.
One is an ongoing provider, but the leasers are going
to run out soon, and council as saying, hey, look,
we really think it'd be best. We'll just take care
of training ourselves, thanks very much, and we'll use that
for you know, Cyril has been saying, hey and counselor
love youth justice, youth engagement facilities places where we don't
get chuck kids in a Dondale enbronment enbronment. But we
(10:30):
in Community Syria talk to me about that three years
ago that we would repurpose those if we had to,
because we know there's such a need there, and we
keep getting no from both levels governed on that about
we don't have the money for facilities. So so but
we'd rather focus on this because if we could get
the race program and work with all the homelands and
all the other organizations, we could actually have programs for
youth justice and engagement.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well. But also you can have opportunities for people out
on communities. So maybe they don't engage.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
So they're like Cyril's saying, sure, people want to work,
they want to make their own living. Yeah, I don't
want to be dependent on it.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
And also there's a lot of Aboriginals living in rural
not part of the rural community, away from rural community.
So and they also wanted that kind of project for
them to also run in the outstations community. Yeah, for them,
for the road safety, for the solar system, for the powers,
(11:27):
that is what they need. Then it's something that has
to be built. And yeah, it's it's really complicated when
you're down in grassroots and you can't imagine how complex
it is.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
But you guys want to do that work. You want
to get stuck into it. So I mean we're too
next have you. I'm assuming that you've met with with
MELANDERI McCarthy, the Minister for Indigenous Australians at some point,
but I'm guessing you're wanting to catch up with her
or Marion stream Dure again.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Well, look, I bumped in a Marian and it was
great catch up with us. She's a good friend of
our counselor and Melandary too. We totally respect, as I
said before, but we are seeking a meeting late last
week and we're seeking it actually tomorrow as well, you know,
because the Minister and Malandary couldn't do it together. Sorry
and Marion last week. But we've got to all the
councilors coming up again like they did last week, the
(12:19):
three councilors, Victorily Repert Golf and ourselves. They're flying out
the rest of today and our other delegation coming in
with Cyril joined Cyril. But that's the meeting we're seeking
and we understand. Yeah, we just want that to happen,
even if you eat Nissa dialing. I think she might
be in Canberra or somewhere, but you know, on teams
we can do that. We can do that, and Marion,
we understands in town, which is great, and to meet
(12:42):
together and to be able to hear each other on this.
We don't want to be in trenches on this, that's all.
We want to work together and just see a way
forward on this because it's so historically important after all
these years. And finally, seriously, it's about twelve odd years
since we've had a decent proper CDP and it's a
great opportunity and we really just want to work together
on how to make that happen.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Well, look, I really appreciate you both coming into Darwin
and having a chat with me this morning. East Darnham
Regional Counselor Cyril Bucker Lutchbe and of course Dale Keene
the CEO. Thank you both so very much for joining
me this morning. I really appreciate your time. Yeah, you too,
Thank you,
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