Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A rural Darwin area childcare center and three of its
supervisors have been charged following the tragic death of a
twenty two month old girl. Now as we know, toddler
Ebonie Thompson died after becoming trapped on a fence at
the Humpty Doo Childcare Center the Community and Childcare Center
in August twenty twenty three and was unaccounted for for
(00:22):
up to ten minutes when staff say that supervision had failed.
Now the coroner found the low loop top fence was
in a blind spot behind the shed and ruled the
death was preventable due to systemic supervision failures. The Education Minister,
Joe Hursey has said, well, the charges send a strong
(00:44):
message that childcare safety must come first. Minister Hersey joins
me in the studio. Good morning to you, Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to the listeners out there.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Minister. Is this the first time that the education departments
charged to center and it's staff for inadequately supervising children.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
This is the first time childcare staff have actually been
charged in the Northern Territory. What we want to do, Katie,
is send a very clear message that the safety of
children in early child cut early childcare centers is paramount,
and you know this, this is something that should.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Never have happened.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And I just want to say that my heart absolutely
goes out to Ebenez's family and you know they're they're
the wider friends of the family in the community here.
It's something that they will have to live with each
and every day. And I can't even imagine as a
mother how they how they must be feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Me either, Like it's it's harrowing stuff. You know, we
take our kids to childcare and sometimes as parents that's
bloody hard to do. You know, you already feel that
guilt of going back to work and being away from
your kids, and then for something like this to happen,
it is nothing short of heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And so if I go back to when the coroner,
you know, had the findings, I the next day wrote
to Jason Clair, the federal Minister, asking for changes to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
This is a national law.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I wrote to Jess Walsh, the early Education In actual fact,
I wrote to every minister across the country about this
tragic event. And we have an Education Minister's meeting in February.
It will be on the agenda then to discuss, and
I did get a response back from Jess Walsh, the
Early Childhood Minister the next day after I emut her,
(02:40):
and I was really I was really grateful to receive
such a swift response because the safety of children, as
you said that, you know, parents drop their kids off
every day to childcare centers, and let's not forget there
are many child care centers out there that actually do
a fantastic job each every day. But everyone needs to
(03:02):
know that they need to follow their policies and procedures
and if they don't, there will be consequences.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Minister, have you met with Ebenese family at all?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, I've I am meeting with them at the end
of the week, and yeah, you know, I think it'll
be a difficult conversation and a difficult meeting, but I
also want to just run by with them some changes
potentially that we make. I think, you know, it's just
courtesy and good manners to have that run by the
(03:34):
family first and then you know see where we go
from there.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, look, I agree with you. I think that it's
really important to have that discussion with Ebeneze family and
you know, see what measures can be implemented to hopefully
prevent something like this from ever happening again. I mean,
how confident are you that the current childcare regulations are
at strong enough to prevent something like this from happening.
(04:03):
It sounds like not very if you've written to the
federal ministers as well to try and implement some changes.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So I wrote to.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Those ministers about you know, the fencing standards, because that's
a national law. But also we have put five extra
staff into the Quality Assurances and Compliance team to make
sure that compliance checks are done. We will be, as
(04:31):
I said, after out of respect and courtesy for the family,
I will discuss things further with them before we make
any changes. I certainly don't want the family to be
used as a political football, but I think they absolutely
need to have that respect to have those discussions with them,
and then in a couple of weeks we'll come out
(04:52):
and you know, let everyone know what those changes will be.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, and on that, I mean, you did say that
you're going to be announcing a plan to overhaul as
I understand that the qec NT and pull funding from
centers not meeting those national standards. As you've just touched on,
you do want to discuss some of those changes with
the family before you're out publicly talking about them. But
I mean, I suppose what can you tell us at
(05:16):
this point you're going to get firmer. Obviously, it's going
to be a situation where things are tougher so that
these childcare centers, if they're doing the wrong thing, they're
held to account.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
That's right, Katie.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I mean there's checks that compliance checks that happen. But
you know, some of these centers out there have been
working towards compliance for six to eight years. That is
totally unacceptable. Yeah, and you know, maybe some of them
are just small things that they need to do, but
who's going back to check on?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
What time frames are happening?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
And there are all the things that I want to discuss.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I want to discuss.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
You know, we've discussed it with the I've discussed it
with the Sea of Education. You know, there's a lot
of things that need Basically, people just need getting out
there doing their job, doing those compliant check compliance checks,
and if centers aren't complying, well, there'll be a time
frame to make sure that you comply, otherwise there will
(06:15):
be consequences.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
We need to be sending a.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Very strong message that child safety must come first and
active supervision.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Must be you know, what happens out there centers in.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Terms of you know, those compliance checks and in some
cases you know, compliance not being you know, like them
not meeting their standard. Is that the right I don't
know whether that's the right way to refer to it.
For the last six to seven years, How on earth
does that happen?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
That's a very good question. Responsibility is it?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, that is under QEC and T and it's a
very good question, and their questions that you know, coming
to government. It's just another one of those things that
we have uncovered and we are making sure that we
will do right and that centers our there are complying
and that parents know that when they drop their child
(07:03):
off to a center that they will be safe and
they will be able to pick them up in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I mean, with some of those compliance measures, it may
not be being met. Do you have any idea what
they might be? I mean, are we talking sort of
you know, little things, are we talking quite serious issues
that could put children at risk.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Some of them may be small things, Katie, I'm not
over all of them at the moment, But they are
the things that we will be working with over the
next couple of weeks and to make sure that we
come out with a plan that is strong and sends
a very clear message to cens us out there that
child safety is paramount.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How far off are we from that plan being released?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Look, I couldn't say we will potentially in a couple
of weeks. I want to actually have an announcement the
fact that this is very important for all parents to
know that their child will be safe in a center.
And then potentially you have to give the census time
to you know, if they need to get some compliance
(08:11):
up to speed, so you know, there might be a
six to twelve month period there where they've got a
chance to do that. But there are all the things
that will be discussing.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Minista. I want to say, and I know you touched
on this before, we know that there are so many
incredible people that work in early childhood and they do
a phenomenal job. You know, I was very fortunate the
wonderful women you know that worked at the childcare center
that my kids went to.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
They helped me to raise the kids, you know, they
helped my husband and I in so many ways to
raise our children, and they were beautiful, beautiful people. But
there's going to be a lot of parents listening this
morning who are feeling pretty anxious about their children's safety
in childcare. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
There are plenty of services out there, and you touched
on your children's experience.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I mean my daughter when she went to care.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I still see the lady that was her care provider,
who is now up here in Darwin, and it's great
to catch up with us.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
She always asked about my daughter.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Ye And you know, they're the kind of relationships you
have with your care or your child's care when they
go into these centers, because if you're working full time,
they spend a lot of time there. In actual fact,
probably more time at the care provider and the center
than they.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Do at home.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So I just want to assure parents that we as
a government are doing all we can and I will
absolutely not stop. And you know, as I said, I
can't reiterate it enough that this sends a very clear
message that there will be consequences and we absolutely do
not want to have a absolute tragedy and another family.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
You know going through what the Thompsons are well.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Minister for Education and also Early Childhood, Joe Hersey, I
really appreciate you coming into the studio this morning to
speak with us. Thank you for your time.
A rural Darwin area childcare center and three of its
supervisors have been charged following the tragic death of a
twenty two month old girl. Now as we know, toddler
Ebonie Thompson died after becoming trapped on a fence at
the Humpty Doo Childcare Center the Community and Childcare Center
in August twenty twenty three and was unaccounted for for
(00:22):
up to ten minutes when staff say that supervision had failed.
Now the coroner found the low loop top fence was
in a blind spot behind the shed and ruled the
death was preventable due to systemic supervision failures. The Education Minister,
Joe Hursey has said, well, the charges send a strong
(00:44):
message that childcare safety must come first. Minister Hersey joins
me in the studio. Good morning to you, Minister.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning Katie, and good morning to the listeners out there.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Minister. Is this the first time that the education departments
charged to center and it's staff for inadequately supervising children.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
This is the first time childcare staff have actually been
charged in the Northern Territory. What we want to do, Katie,
is send a very clear message that the safety of
children in early child cut early childcare centers is paramount,
and you know this, this is something that should.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Never have happened.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And I just want to say that my heart absolutely
goes out to Ebenez's family and you know they're they're
the wider friends of the family in the community here.
It's something that they will have to live with each
and every day. And I can't even imagine as a
mother how they how they must be feeling.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Me either, Like it's it's harrowing stuff. You know, we
take our kids to childcare and sometimes as parents that's
bloody hard to do. You know, you already feel that
guilt of going back to work and being away from
your kids, and then for something like this to happen,
it is nothing short of heartbreaking.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
And so if I go back to when the coroner,
you know, had the findings, I the next day wrote
to Jason Clair, the federal Minister, asking for changes to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
This is a national law.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I wrote to Jess Walsh, the early Education In actual fact,
I wrote to every minister across the country about this
tragic event. And we have an Education Minister's meeting in February.
It will be on the agenda then to discuss, and
I did get a response back from Jess Walsh, the
Early Childhood Minister the next day after I emut her,
(02:40):
and I was really I was really grateful to receive
such a swift response because the safety of children, as
you said that, you know, parents drop their kids off
every day to childcare centers, and let's not forget there
are many child care centers out there that actually do
a fantastic job each every day. But everyone needs to
(03:02):
know that they need to follow their policies and procedures
and if they don't, there will be consequences.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Minister, have you met with Ebenese family at all?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
No, I've I am meeting with them at the end
of the week, and yeah, you know, I think it'll
be a difficult conversation and a difficult meeting, but I
also want to just run by with them some changes
potentially that we make. I think, you know, it's just
courtesy and good manners to have that run by the
(03:34):
family first and then you know see where we go
from there.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, look, I agree with you. I think that it's
really important to have that discussion with Ebeneze family and
you know, see what measures can be implemented to hopefully
prevent something like this from ever happening again. I mean,
how confident are you that the current childcare regulations are
at strong enough to prevent something like this from happening.
(04:03):
It sounds like not very if you've written to the
federal ministers as well to try and implement some changes.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So I wrote to.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Those ministers about you know, the fencing standards, because that's
a national law. But also we have put five extra
staff into the Quality Assurances and Compliance team to make
sure that compliance checks are done. We will be, as
(04:31):
I said, after out of respect and courtesy for the family,
I will discuss things further with them before we make
any changes. I certainly don't want the family to be
used as a political football, but I think they absolutely
need to have that respect to have those discussions with them,
and then in a couple of weeks we'll come out
(04:52):
and you know, let everyone know what those changes will be.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well, and on that, I mean, you did say that
you're going to be announcing a plan to overhaul as
I understand that the qec NT and pull funding from
centers not meeting those national standards. As you've just touched on,
you do want to discuss some of those changes with
the family before you're out publicly talking about them. But
I mean, I suppose what can you tell us at
(05:16):
this point you're going to get firmer. Obviously, it's going
to be a situation where things are tougher so that
these childcare centers, if they're doing the wrong thing, they're
held to account.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
That's right, Katie.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I mean there's checks that compliance checks that happen. But
you know, some of these centers out there have been
working towards compliance for six to eight years. That is
totally unacceptable. Yeah, and you know, maybe some of them
are just small things that they need to do, but
who's going back to check on?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
What time frames are happening?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
And there are all the things that I want to discuss.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I want to discuss.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
You know, we've discussed it with the I've discussed it
with the Sea of Education. You know, there's a lot
of things that need Basically, people just need getting out
there doing their job, doing those compliant check compliance checks,
and if centers aren't complying, well, there'll be a time
frame to make sure that you comply, otherwise there will
(06:15):
be consequences.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
We need to be sending a.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Very strong message that child safety must come first and
active supervision.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Must be you know, what happens out there centers in.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Terms of you know, those compliance checks and in some
cases you know, compliance not being you know, like them
not meeting their standard. Is that the right I don't
know whether that's the right way to refer to it.
For the last six to seven years, How on earth
does that happen?
Speaker 2 (06:40):
That's a very good question. Responsibility is it?
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Well, that is under QEC and T and it's a
very good question, and their questions that you know, coming
to government. It's just another one of those things that
we have uncovered and we are making sure that we
will do right and that centers our there are complying
and that parents know that when they drop their child
(07:03):
off to a center that they will be safe and
they will be able to pick them up in the afternoon.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
I mean, with some of those compliance measures, it may
not be being met. Do you have any idea what
they might be? I mean, are we talking sort of
you know, little things, are we talking quite serious issues
that could put children at risk.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Some of them may be small things, Katie, I'm not
over all of them at the moment, But they are
the things that we will be working with over the
next couple of weeks and to make sure that we
come out with a plan that is strong and sends
a very clear message to cens us out there that
child safety is paramount.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
How far off are we from that plan being released?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Look, I couldn't say we will potentially in a couple
of weeks. I want to actually have an announcement the
fact that this is very important for all parents to
know that their child will be safe in a center.
And then potentially you have to give the census time
to you know, if they need to get some compliance
(08:11):
up to speed, so you know, there might be a
six to twelve month period there where they've got a
chance to do that. But there are all the things
that will be discussing.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Minista. I want to say, and I know you touched
on this before, we know that there are so many
incredible people that work in early childhood and they do
a phenomenal job. You know, I was very fortunate the
wonderful women you know that worked at the childcare center
that my kids went to.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I'll be honest.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
They helped me to raise the kids, you know, they
helped my husband and I in so many ways to
raise our children, and they were beautiful, beautiful people. But
there's going to be a lot of parents listening this
morning who are feeling pretty anxious about their children's safety
in childcare. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
There are plenty of services out there, and you touched
on your children's experience.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I mean my daughter when she went to care.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I still see the lady that was her care provider,
who is now up here in Darwin, and it's great
to catch up with us.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
She always asked about my daughter.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Ye And you know, they're the kind of relationships you
have with your care or your child's care when they
go into these centers, because if you're working full time,
they spend a lot of time there. In actual fact,
probably more time at the care provider and the center
than they.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Do at home.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So I just want to assure parents that we as
a government are doing all we can and I will
absolutely not stop. And you know, as I said, I
can't reiterate it enough that this sends a very clear
message that there will be consequences and we absolutely do
not want to have a absolute tragedy and another family.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
You know going through what the Thompsons are well.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Minister for Education and also Early Childhood, Joe Hersey, I
really appreciate you coming into the studio this morning to
speak with us. Thank you for your time.
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