Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, Larry's certainly a lot happening around the place. Plenty
of messages coming through this morning on the text line
as well, but we know the big news it is
still being discussed this morning is the fact that the
opposition leaders have been forced to apologize for misusing a
government vehicle on several occasions. Now joining me on the
line is the Minister for Education, Joe Hersey. Good morning
(00:24):
to your minister. Seem to be having a bit of
an issue there with that phone line for some reason.
Let me try that again, minister, can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I can. Good morning, Katy, good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good morning to you. Now, firstly, what was your reaction
to the opposition leader using the government's white car service
for personal trips sixty five times?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I found it interesting. But in saying that, Katie, I
have also asked for some clarification around those guidelines moving forward,
so that we all know exactly you know what the
what those guidelines are.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
How come have you used it in an inappropriate way
as well?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well? I have. I was in media earlier on this
morning and they asked me the question. I used it
once when I was running late to an appointment at
Casarina and that's that's the only time that I've used
it in that instance.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So hang on, So running late to get so sorry, Joe,
let me just get to the bottom of this. So
running late to get to a personal appointment. Where were
you catching that white car from from Parliament House? From
work or what.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Was the guy from work? From work? Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And then what did you did you use it to
return home? Did you use it? Did you use it
to return home? Did you make that drive a wait
for you outside? How did it happen?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
No? No, the driver doesn't wait when you go to
an appointment like that. And I got the bus back
into town. Do you think my first instance of using
the bus?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I mean, I guess you know from the outset, I
would say one use is very different to sixty five. However,
it doesn't make it okay. Do you think it's appropriate
that you used it in that way?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, that's why I've been That's why I have asked
and have thought clarification. But that one instance, you know
that I've just reflected on since the opposition leader has
come out, that trip if I calculated it, because I've
also you know, used uber or whatever as well, which
is thirty thirty dollars uber or it was a dollar
(02:37):
fifty in the white car. I'm not saying that that's
that's acceptable.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
That's a good point that you make there. So how
is it that it works out to be one dollar
in the white car comparatively, you know, to thirty dollars
in an uber because I've been wondering this how they
summed up the six hundred dollars dollars for the opposition later.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, and I don't know how did that, but with
the it is Catherina is fourteen kilometers and the kilometer rate,
you know, worked out to be a dollar fifty of fuel.
But you know, as regional members, we either fly to
Darwin or don't and don't have a car here. So
it's you're either going to use a cab charge or
(03:20):
the white car, depending on what the instance is. As
you but.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Also, I mean to a lot of people listening this morning,
I get what you're saying. Obviously you're based in Catherine,
but you guys already earn a heck of a lot
of money, So you get that white car service to
get to meetings, to get to government business. Nobody expects
that then you are using a private chauffeur service as
(03:45):
your own personal taxi.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
No, that's correct, but like I just said, you can
and not to condone it, but just to explain the difference,
is it's either a dollar fifty in fuel or it's
thirty dollar buber or the other thing that we are.
If I fly up here, I can have a higher car. Yeah,
So I don't have a higher car for the week
(04:10):
because I don't need it all the time, and to me,
that's a waste of taxpayer funds. So I could have
had a higher car, and I don't know what a
higher car is, but they're generally one hundred hundred and
fifty dollars a day maybe, or it was a dollar
fifty of fuel that my trip was.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So I guess it's a precarious situation now the government
finds themselves in where you guys can't even really be
criticizing the opposition leader for the missuse of this chauffeur
service because presumably others are doing it.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well. I think that's the matter for the opposition that
she dealt with last week, and that is exactly why
I've asked for clarification around this. So moving forward, we
know exactly what you know that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The isn't there isn't there a cabinet and book.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes, there is a cabinet handbook, but there are some
areas where there are blurred lines, and so we just
asked for some more clarification.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Sorry, So in your I mean, in this situation, like
I had, I was going to ask you if you
thought the position of the opposition leader was untenable. I mean,
what do you think now?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, I just think it's a matter for her. You know,
she came out and she said what you know, gave
her apology last week, and I think that's a matter
that they've dealt with as an opposition team. And I
go back to saying, we have asked for clarification in
moving forward what those guidelines are, and just to you know,
(05:49):
maybe clear up some of those blurred lines.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Look, I've got to say I'm a little bit surprised
that there are blurred lines because to me, you know,
as somebody who worked as a staffer on the fifth
floor many many years ago, I would suggest that there
shouldn't be blurredlines. You know, if you are at work
and you are going on a work appointment, then you
know that is when that car may be used. I
(06:15):
do think there is an added layer for ministers and
even I guess in some ways potentially for the opposition leader,
where you have got security concerns in different ways, so
there may be the need to be utilizing that service.
But I think what tax payers expect is that, to
put it really bluntly, no one's taking the pisce.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
No. No, that's exactly right. And you know, which is
why when the opposition leader came out and said that
last week, I thought about the trips that I've done.
I can honestly only think there was that one trip.
And you know, I think, as I said, it's as
a regional member, we don't have I could either get
(06:58):
a higher car up here or I can get a taxi,
and both of them are more expensive than the dollar
fifty that was used to get to that appointment that
I was running late to.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Taking into account, then for those regional members, for those
regional members, taking that into account, do you think you
guys should be able to utilize that white car service
while you're in town for your personal use.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think there needs to be some clarification on what
you can use it for, which is what we've asked.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
For all right, let's talk more about the announcement being
made today. You are announcing new measures to hold parents
accountable if they're not sending their kids to school. Can
you talk me through the detail on this.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yes, So, when we came to government, we said that
we would hold parents accountable for getting their children to school.
We have also been working with the federal government to
make sure that you know, this is something that we
can do as a government up here, and so we
have been back from January, we've been working with the
(08:04):
federal government who have enabled us. And like I said
this morning, I thank the federal government for working with
us to make sure that the Education Department, now the
attendance teams can go and hold those parents to account. Now,
these are not parents that their child is missing one
day or two days. These are constant, you know, chronic
(08:27):
unattendance at school. And so I know we've spoken before
about the intensive support role, and so you know, we've
already seen the attendance offices. They've had over six thousand
successful compliance visits resulting in over three hundred kids back
to school. But what we want is we want to
(08:47):
make sure that all parents know that the importance of
getting their kids to school and to do that, get
into a meaningful education, into employment, and you cannot do
that if you are not attending school. What's the threshold,
the Lord?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
What is the threshold going to be for non school
attendants before parents are referred for income management? I mean,
I know you mentioned there it's not going to be
just a once off for or you know, we know
that kids might get sick, might get a virus for
a week. What's the threshold going to be?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
So those children that are on the intensive support role
are children that have not been at school for twenty
days or more. And the department or the attendance officers
right across and I've been out with them right across
the territory. They work with families and the children to
get them to comply to come back to school. But
(09:40):
if they have not complied, and they have not once
they've got a compliant notice, if they have not come
back to school, you know, then they will be referred
to income management.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So can you talk us through, Joe, like, how's it
going to work in a practical sort of sense. I
know you sort of touched on it there, but for
some listening this morning, they might be thinking Oh, hang
on a second. Are the line's going to be blurred here?
You know if somebody is sick for a couple of
weeks or goes away for a couple of weeks, So
are we're going to end up with the school attendance
officers onto us.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I just want to be very clear, Katie. This is
not for people that are going on holidays. It's not
for people that you know their child is missing one
or two days of school. These are chronic non attenders.
As I said on the intensive support role, that means
you've missed twenty days or more of school. And so
(10:31):
it is those people that will be targeted and that
they are being worked with already from the attendance team.
And those people, if they continue to flout the system
and not get their children to school, they will be referred.
We now have the capacity to refer these families, the
(10:51):
parents to income management and that's through our work that
we've been doing with the federal government.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and so that income management then does that happen
through sen to Lenk or how exactly does that happen.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Through the Services Australia. There's a referral from the attendance
teams that they are now able to do. And this
is not a new thing, Katie, because this is something
that the Circuit Breaker team have been working with families
through territory families. So it's nothing new. And I know
when the Chief Minister was talking about the seven point
(11:26):
plan working with the federal government, it was brought up then.
But also when we went to the election last year,
we said that we would hold parents accountable for getting
their kids to school, get back to basics, and boost
literacy and numeracy. So it's not anything new. But we
now just have got the capacity to refer by working
(11:47):
with the federal government.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So when exactly or when exactly is it going to
come into effect? Is it going to happen immediately or
for this term?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So this will be available and the attendant teams will
be able to refer this term and score goes back
this week.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
In terms of legislative changes, Do you require any to
make this happen?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
No, No, there are no This is something that we
can do. There's just been some training with staff YEP
their operational issues with the department, but we now have
the capacity to do these referrals and they will be
happening this term.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Minister, what do you say to those who feel that
these changes might disproportionately harm poor or Aboriginal families who
are already among the most targeted some would claim by
the legal system.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, this is not for any specific people out there.
This is for anybody. It doesn't matter what your background is,
what nationality you are, or what the color of your
skin is. This is for anybody out there that chronically
has children that chronically disengage and not attending school. So
(13:04):
you know, there's a simple message there. If you don't
want to go on income management, get your kids to school,
because they can't be educated, Katie, if they don't turn
up to school. We know that there's kids out there,
you know, some of them are breaking into people's houses
and whatever. If they are being educated in school, then
they're not going to be out on the streets. And
(13:25):
it is about making sure that these children are looked
after and they are getting an education to be, as
I have said many many times, to get on a
pathway to meaningful employment and into a job because as
a government, that's what we want.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, Minnesota, be really keen to hear how it's going
over the next few weeks to months, just a quick one.
There's a lot of messages coming through about this situation
with the vehicles. Somebody's just messaged through and said, Katie,
don't MLAs also get a car allowance.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That's correct. But if you you are a regional member
and you have come up, whether you've flown up or
to Darwin or whatever, you don't have a vehicle here
to use, so that's when you have. You can either
get a higher car or a taxi cab charge, or
you can as a ministerial person, you can use the
(14:22):
white cars.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Well, Minister Joe Hersey, we are going to have to
leave it there. Thank you very much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thanks Katie, and thanks listening.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Thank you
Well, Larry's certainly a lot happening around the place. Plenty
of messages coming through this morning on the text line
as well, but we know the big news it is
still being discussed this morning is the fact that the
opposition leaders have been forced to apologize for misusing a
government vehicle on several occasions. Now joining me on the
line is the Minister for Education, Joe Hersey. Good morning
(00:24):
to your minister. Seem to be having a bit of
an issue there with that phone line for some reason.
Let me try that again, minister, can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I can. Good morning, Katy, good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good morning to you. Now, firstly, what was your reaction
to the opposition leader using the government's white car service
for personal trips sixty five times?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I found it interesting. But in saying that, Katie, I
have also asked for some clarification around those guidelines moving forward,
so that we all know exactly you know what the
what those guidelines are.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
How come have you used it in an inappropriate way
as well?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well? I have. I was in media earlier on this
morning and they asked me the question. I used it
once when I was running late to an appointment at
Casarina and that's that's the only time that I've used
it in that instance.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So hang on, So running late to get so sorry, Joe,
let me just get to the bottom of this. So
running late to get to a personal appointment. Where were
you catching that white car from from Parliament House? From
work or what.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Was the guy from work? From work? Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And then what did you did you use it to
return home? Did you use it? Did you use it
to return home? Did you make that drive a wait
for you outside? How did it happen?
Speaker 2 (01:50):
No? No, the driver doesn't wait when you go to
an appointment like that. And I got the bus back
into town. Do you think my first instance of using
the bus?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I mean, I guess you know from the outset, I
would say one use is very different to sixty five. However,
it doesn't make it okay. Do you think it's appropriate
that you used it in that way?
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, that's why I've been That's why I have asked
and have thought clarification. But that one instance, you know
that I've just reflected on since the opposition leader has
come out, that trip if I calculated it, because I've
also you know, used uber or whatever as well, which
is thirty thirty dollars uber or it was a dollar
(02:37):
fifty in the white car. I'm not saying that that's
that's acceptable.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
That's a good point that you make there. So how
is it that it works out to be one dollar
in the white car comparatively, you know, to thirty dollars
in an uber because I've been wondering this how they
summed up the six hundred dollars dollars for the opposition later.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, and I don't know how did that, but with
the it is Catherina is fourteen kilometers and the kilometer rate,
you know, worked out to be a dollar fifty of fuel.
But you know, as regional members, we either fly to
Darwin or don't and don't have a car here. So
it's you're either going to use a cab charge or
(03:20):
the white car, depending on what the instance is. As
you but.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Also, I mean to a lot of people listening this morning,
I get what you're saying. Obviously you're based in Catherine,
but you guys already earn a heck of a lot
of money, So you get that white car service to
get to meetings, to get to government business. Nobody expects
that then you are using a private chauffeur service as
(03:45):
your own personal taxi.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
No, that's correct, but like I just said, you can
and not to condone it, but just to explain the difference,
is it's either a dollar fifty in fuel or it's
thirty dollar buber or the other thing that we are.
If I fly up here, I can have a higher car. Yeah,
So I don't have a higher car for the week
(04:10):
because I don't need it all the time, and to me,
that's a waste of taxpayer funds. So I could have
had a higher car, and I don't know what a
higher car is, but they're generally one hundred hundred and
fifty dollars a day maybe, or it was a dollar
fifty of fuel that my trip was.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So I guess it's a precarious situation now the government
finds themselves in where you guys can't even really be
criticizing the opposition leader for the missuse of this chauffeur
service because presumably others are doing it.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well. I think that's the matter for the opposition that
she dealt with last week, and that is exactly why
I've asked for clarification around this. So moving forward, we
know exactly what you know that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
The isn't there isn't there a cabinet and book.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes, there is a cabinet handbook, but there are some
areas where there are blurred lines, and so we just
asked for some more clarification.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Sorry, So in your I mean, in this situation, like
I had, I was going to ask you if you
thought the position of the opposition leader was untenable. I mean,
what do you think now?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well, I just think it's a matter for her. You know,
she came out and she said what you know, gave
her apology last week, and I think that's a matter
that they've dealt with as an opposition team. And I
go back to saying, we have asked for clarification in
moving forward what those guidelines are, and just to you know,
(05:49):
maybe clear up some of those blurred lines.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Look, I've got to say I'm a little bit surprised
that there are blurred lines because to me, you know,
as somebody who worked as a staffer on the fifth
floor many many years ago, I would suggest that there
shouldn't be blurredlines. You know, if you are at work
and you are going on a work appointment, then you
know that is when that car may be used. I
(06:15):
do think there is an added layer for ministers and
even I guess in some ways potentially for the opposition leader,
where you have got security concerns in different ways, so
there may be the need to be utilizing that service.
But I think what tax payers expect is that, to
put it really bluntly, no one's taking the pisce.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
No. No, that's exactly right. And you know, which is
why when the opposition leader came out and said that
last week, I thought about the trips that I've done.
I can honestly only think there was that one trip.
And you know, I think, as I said, it's as
a regional member, we don't have I could either get
(06:58):
a higher car up here or I can get a taxi,
and both of them are more expensive than the dollar
fifty that was used to get to that appointment that
I was running late to.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Taking into account, then for those regional members, for those
regional members, taking that into account, do you think you
guys should be able to utilize that white car service
while you're in town for your personal use.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think there needs to be some clarification on what
you can use it for, which is what we've asked.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
For all right, let's talk more about the announcement being
made today. You are announcing new measures to hold parents
accountable if they're not sending their kids to school. Can
you talk me through the detail on this.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Yes, So, when we came to government, we said that
we would hold parents accountable for getting their children to school.
We have also been working with the federal government to
make sure that you know, this is something that we
can do as a government up here, and so we
have been back from January, we've been working with the
(08:04):
federal government who have enabled us. And like I said
this morning, I thank the federal government for working with
us to make sure that the Education Department, now the
attendance teams can go and hold those parents to account. Now,
these are not parents that their child is missing one
day or two days. These are constant, you know, chronic
(08:27):
unattendance at school. And so I know we've spoken before
about the intensive support role, and so you know, we've
already seen the attendance offices. They've had over six thousand
successful compliance visits resulting in over three hundred kids back
to school. But what we want is we want to
(08:47):
make sure that all parents know that the importance of
getting their kids to school and to do that, get
into a meaningful education, into employment, and you cannot do
that if you are not attending school. What's the threshold,
the Lord?
Speaker 1 (09:03):
What is the threshold going to be for non school
attendants before parents are referred for income management? I mean,
I know you mentioned there it's not going to be
just a once off for or you know, we know
that kids might get sick, might get a virus for
a week. What's the threshold going to be?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
So those children that are on the intensive support role
are children that have not been at school for twenty
days or more. And the department or the attendance officers
right across and I've been out with them right across
the territory. They work with families and the children to
get them to comply to come back to school. But
(09:40):
if they have not complied, and they have not once
they've got a compliant notice, if they have not come
back to school, you know, then they will be referred
to income management.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
So can you talk us through, Joe, like, how's it
going to work in a practical sort of sense. I
know you sort of touched on it there, but for
some listening this morning, they might be thinking Oh, hang
on a second. Are the line's going to be blurred here?
You know if somebody is sick for a couple of
weeks or goes away for a couple of weeks, So
are we're going to end up with the school attendance
officers onto us.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I just want to be very clear, Katie. This is
not for people that are going on holidays. It's not
for people that you know their child is missing one
or two days of school. These are chronic non attenders.
As I said on the intensive support role, that means
you've missed twenty days or more of school. And so
(10:31):
it is those people that will be targeted and that
they are being worked with already from the attendance team.
And those people, if they continue to flout the system
and not get their children to school, they will be referred.
We now have the capacity to refer these families, the
(10:51):
parents to income management and that's through our work that
we've been doing with the federal government.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and so that income management then does that happen
through sen to Lenk or how exactly does that happen.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Through the Services Australia. There's a referral from the attendance
teams that they are now able to do. And this
is not a new thing, Katie, because this is something
that the Circuit Breaker team have been working with families
through territory families. So it's nothing new. And I know
when the Chief Minister was talking about the seven point
(11:26):
plan working with the federal government, it was brought up then.
But also when we went to the election last year,
we said that we would hold parents accountable for getting
their kids to school, get back to basics, and boost
literacy and numeracy. So it's not anything new. But we
now just have got the capacity to refer by working
(11:47):
with the federal government.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So when exactly or when exactly is it going to
come into effect? Is it going to happen immediately or
for this term?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
So this will be available and the attendant teams will
be able to refer this term and score goes back
this week.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
In terms of legislative changes, Do you require any to
make this happen?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
No, No, there are no This is something that we
can do. There's just been some training with staff YEP
their operational issues with the department, but we now have
the capacity to do these referrals and they will be
happening this term.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Minister, what do you say to those who feel that
these changes might disproportionately harm poor or Aboriginal families who
are already among the most targeted some would claim by
the legal system.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Well, this is not for any specific people out there.
This is for anybody. It doesn't matter what your background is,
what nationality you are, or what the color of your
skin is. This is for anybody out there that chronically
has children that chronically disengage and not attending school. So
(13:04):
you know, there's a simple message there. If you don't
want to go on income management, get your kids to school,
because they can't be educated, Katie, if they don't turn
up to school. We know that there's kids out there,
you know, some of them are breaking into people's houses
and whatever. If they are being educated in school, then
they're not going to be out on the streets. And
(13:25):
it is about making sure that these children are looked
after and they are getting an education to be, as
I have said many many times, to get on a
pathway to meaningful employment and into a job because as
a government, that's what we want.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Well, Minnesota, be really keen to hear how it's going
over the next few weeks to months, just a quick one.
There's a lot of messages coming through about this situation
with the vehicles. Somebody's just messaged through and said, Katie,
don't MLAs also get a car allowance.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That's correct. But if you you are a regional member
and you have come up, whether you've flown up or
to Darwin or whatever, you don't have a vehicle here
to use, so that's when you have. You can either
get a higher car or a taxi cab charge, or
you can as a ministerial person, you can use the
(14:22):
white cars.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Well, Minister Joe Hersey, we are going to have to
leave it there. Thank you very much for your time
this morning.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Thanks Katie, and thanks listening.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Thank you
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.