Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now, as we heard on the show yesterday, the Northern
Territory Police Association's annual conference is happening this week and
this year the Police Association have invited Ben Bissant, the
first officer to enter the Lint Siege cafe and shoot
Man Monas well, to speak to officers. Now, Ben set
to speak to members of the police force about PTSD
(00:23):
and also finding life after policing, and he joins me
in the studio right now. Good morning, Ben morning, are
you yeah? Really good? Good to have you on the
show this morning. Now, Ben, our listeners might not recognize
your name, but they'll definitely remember where they were and
the moment that your actions saved the lives of so many.
You fired the shots which took down Man Monas in
(00:45):
the Lint Cafe siege. But up until recently you weren't
actually able to be named. You've finally got your name back,
You've released a book, you're certainly out there telling your story.
What was it like when you turned up to the
Lynx Cafe on that day?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
To be honest, the day you started, Like many others,
we were at that stage on heilot because there were
so many terrorism incidents happening around the world. We'd actually
been doing a lot of counter terrorism work in and
around our state, and we knew Victoria were doing the same.
So yeah, it started like many others. But once the
call came in, I would say we were expecting it.
(01:27):
We thought it was a matter of time until a
big job came in and then yeah, we'll rush down
to Martin Place.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
What's that feeling you get when you know that you're
rushing down to a dangerous situation. I would imagine it's
sort of vital flight sense. You know, you might feel
those butterflies in your stomach, but you you know, all
that training and you're adrenaline really would kick in. I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, of course for us, we can't have the flight
part of the fight or flight. Yeah, you know what
I mean. But yeah, the adrenaline did kick in. Initially,
there's still we weren't one hundred percent sure if it
was what it was being portrayed us, but it became
evident very quickly.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I mean, then when you arrive, you see what's going
on and you know what has to be done to
try and resolve the situation. Take us through some of
those moments.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, so I was there with the rest of the
TAU for sixteen hours before we were allowed to go in.
As we arrived, it was a scene of chaos. There
were pedestrians running everywhere, gd's general duties, police officers moving everyone.
We eventually took up position just on the top side
of the cafe. Throughout the day, it was very hot.
(02:43):
We're in our full kit, but not only that, it
ramped up to some points where our management believed we
were going to go in, and then it dropped back down,
so that made it a long day. It was very
frustrating too, because we had very little observations and didn't
really know what was going on inside.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
YEA very concerning, and I mean that moment like that,
that day changed your life forever, didn't I.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yep, definitely did. And it's one that after it I
knew throughout my career and other jobs and everything I've done,
there's been some big moments, and I always tried to
just lock it away, push it down, like I imagine
most police officers do. After that, I did struggle for
(03:29):
a really struggle with massive symptoms for good six months,
but I continue to fight through it and stayed on
in the tea for another six years after that, And.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I can't even begin to imagine what it would be
like to be in a situation like that where you
can see the danger that's unfolding, you can see what's
happening right there in front of your eyes, you know
what needs to be done, Like he had to be
taken down, and it was you know, it was a
threat to all of those innocent live. But then afterwards,
(04:01):
you know, there's so many questions that get asked about
whether you've done the right thing, and you know, and
the coronial inquest happens, and all of those questions get asked,
and like, I get it, they need you know, all
those questions need to be asked, but it must have
a huge toll on you as a.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Human, Yeah, for sure. And throughout the day we actually
managed to see into the cafe. Myself and my shield
man manage to see in, which made it even harder
once we'd seen the hostage and the distress of the hostages,
and my natural inclination is to go in and say,
even do my job, which we were trained for, but
not being allowed to for sixteen hours made it very hard. Yeah,
(04:40):
the coronal inquest I actually fired on him fifteen times
and in that which all the evidence shows that it
was within two to three seconds of actually engaging. So
that was broken down into seconds and milliseconds by just
about everyone in critiqued in question and whereas other elements
(05:02):
i'd suggest weren't questioned as much. So I know there
was closed court for ATO and PP Department public prosecutions
and stuff like that. So yeah, that was difficult.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah. And then you know, for all of these years,
like we're talking more than ten years, you were never
able to be named. So essentially your name's been suppressed
for that period of time. Even on your book, your
name is not on there.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Is that it actually is now just now we had
to bring out a new version because before it was
only office A.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
What was that like for you, you know, not your
identity not being able to be revealed.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, it was very difficult. One of the things I
did do during my healing process was to write a book,
and I wanted to share with as many people as
I can my story and my journey with PTSD and
my journey to recovery. So that's my now my new
thing to try and help people, and not being to
put my name to the book was very difficult or
(06:03):
be able to speak with people, and I don't understand
why it was fought so hard, but yeah, it was fought.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
By the.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Police force management right to the end and the coroner's office.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You're no longer a police officer, are you? I'm no,
and so you are. You're here though, to speak to
the Northern Territory police officers as part of the Police
Association's annual conference, to speak to them about PTSD and
about your experience and what your life was like post
that experience. What are you hoping that they sort of
(06:40):
gain from those discussions.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, firstly, a serious discussion doesn't need to happen. I'm
pushing for a national parliamentary inquiry which has gained quite
a bit attraction, and a serious conversation does need to happen.
I believe the military have actually put a lot of
money and resources into it and doing a lot better
(07:04):
than the police forces in other emergency services. Yeah, so
even to initiate the conversation is a very important thing
because there's so many people ex police officers and emergency
services still struggling so much. There's still high rates of
suicide everything, and a very serious conversation needs to happen
about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, even here in the Northern Territory, we're awaiting the
outcome of a coronial inquest into Michael Dutrom, a Northern
Territory police officer who took his life. You know. Yeah,
and I like, I think our police do such a
tremendous job. It is such a difficult job, and you know,
the trauma that you're faced with every single day, and
(07:46):
then at a critical incident like the one that you
were involved in, the change to your life when you
are undertaking your daily duties that you've been employed to do,
but then the ramifications of that for an incredibly long time,
you know, like I can't even begin to imagine what
that's been like for you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, and it's not only how much it changed my life,
but also my family and my children and friends. It
affects such a large proportion of society. And to give
you somebody, I was back at work the next day
after that. So it just needs a sue discussion into it,
even preparation prior to police attending incidents. And then yeah,
(08:32):
I'd suggest money and resources into help helping police officers
get through it because they're such an important part of
society and we need them strong, fit and healthy and
to do the job as long as they possibly can.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Absolutely, Then you've written your book. You mentioned it a
moment ago. You've written your book. What can people expect
when they read that my book?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, Tiger, Tiger Tiger. I'm doing a book signing today
the day and bookstore in the mall at twelve point thirty.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
It's I'd say it starts more a bit like an
action movie, which is sort of my career in the
tu up to it, and then shows my eventual decline
and then yeah, then struggling with PTSD, acknowledging that I
do have PTSD, and then my new challenge, my new
(09:19):
threat and fight was PTSD and my way about going
about it and not letting it beat me as I
haven't in every aspect of my life. I don't like
to be beaten. So I, yeah, just my ways and
strategies of doing that, and I believe that that will
help as many people as I can.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That good on you, Yeah mate, it says there in
the top corner of the book as well. The book
they wanted to ban, How important was it for you
to get it?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Out very important, and even three days before I had
threats from Police force upper management, threat threatening pretty much
jail time and pretty severe fines if I were were
to release it. I tried for a good twelve months,
approached them, asking them I wanted to work with them
(10:09):
because obviously I'll still loyal to the police force. And yeah,
their response was to ignore me for nine months before
beginning to threaten me if I were to release it.
This is what's to happen, which is very upsetting, to
be honest, and confusing us to their stance on it.
But I went ahead and published it and it's doing well.
(10:29):
I've got lots of feedback and it's helping lots of people,
which is the main point of it.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Good on you. Well, it's called Tiger Tiger Tiger, as
you mentioned, and you can head to Tiger Tiger Tiger
book dot com if you're not able to get to
the bookstore today at twelve thirty? Was it twelve thirty
in them all? Oh, good on you, Ben, Ben Besant.
Thank you so very much for joining us in the
studio and telling us more about your story.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Thanks very much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Thank you
Now, as we heard on the show yesterday, the Northern
Territory Police Association's annual conference is happening this week and
this year the Police Association have invited Ben Bissant, the
first officer to enter the Lint Siege cafe and shoot
Man Monas well, to speak to officers. Now, Ben set
to speak to members of the police force about PTSD
(00:23):
and also finding life after policing, and he joins me
in the studio right now. Good morning, Ben morning, are
you yeah? Really good? Good to have you on the
show this morning. Now, Ben, our listeners might not recognize
your name, but they'll definitely remember where they were and
the moment that your actions saved the lives of so many.
You fired the shots which took down Man Monas in
(00:45):
the Lint Cafe siege. But up until recently you weren't
actually able to be named. You've finally got your name back,
You've released a book, you're certainly out there telling your story.
What was it like when you turned up to the
Lynx Cafe on that day?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
To be honest, the day you started, Like many others,
we were at that stage on heilot because there were
so many terrorism incidents happening around the world. We'd actually
been doing a lot of counter terrorism work in and
around our state, and we knew Victoria were doing the same.
So yeah, it started like many others. But once the
call came in, I would say we were expecting it.
(01:27):
We thought it was a matter of time until a
big job came in and then yeah, we'll rush down
to Martin Place.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
What's that feeling you get when you know that you're
rushing down to a dangerous situation. I would imagine it's
sort of vital flight sense. You know, you might feel
those butterflies in your stomach, but you you know, all
that training and you're adrenaline really would kick in. I'm assuming.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, of course for us, we can't have the flight
part of the fight or flight. Yeah, you know what
I mean. But yeah, the adrenaline did kick in. Initially,
there's still we weren't one hundred percent sure if it
was what it was being portrayed us, but it became
evident very quickly.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I mean, then when you arrive, you see what's going
on and you know what has to be done to
try and resolve the situation. Take us through some of
those moments.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, so I was there with the rest of the
TAU for sixteen hours before we were allowed to go in.
As we arrived, it was a scene of chaos. There
were pedestrians running everywhere, gd's general duties, police officers moving everyone.
We eventually took up position just on the top side
of the cafe. Throughout the day, it was very hot.
(02:43):
We're in our full kit, but not only that, it
ramped up to some points where our management believed we
were going to go in, and then it dropped back down,
so that made it a long day. It was very
frustrating too, because we had very little observations and didn't
really know what was going on inside.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
YEA very concerning, and I mean that moment like that,
that day changed your life forever, didn't I.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yep, definitely did. And it's one that after it I
knew throughout my career and other jobs and everything I've done,
there's been some big moments, and I always tried to
just lock it away, push it down, like I imagine
most police officers do. After that, I did struggle for
(03:29):
a really struggle with massive symptoms for good six months,
but I continue to fight through it and stayed on
in the tea for another six years after that, And.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I can't even begin to imagine what it would be
like to be in a situation like that where you
can see the danger that's unfolding, you can see what's
happening right there in front of your eyes, you know
what needs to be done, Like he had to be
taken down, and it was you know, it was a
threat to all of those innocent live. But then afterwards,
(04:01):
you know, there's so many questions that get asked about
whether you've done the right thing, and you know, and
the coronial inquest happens, and all of those questions get asked,
and like, I get it, they need you know, all
those questions need to be asked, but it must have
a huge toll on you as a.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Human, Yeah, for sure. And throughout the day we actually
managed to see into the cafe. Myself and my shield
man manage to see in, which made it even harder
once we'd seen the hostage and the distress of the hostages,
and my natural inclination is to go in and say,
even do my job, which we were trained for, but
not being allowed to for sixteen hours made it very hard. Yeah,
(04:40):
the coronal inquest I actually fired on him fifteen times
and in that which all the evidence shows that it
was within two to three seconds of actually engaging. So
that was broken down into seconds and milliseconds by just
about everyone in critiqued in question and whereas other elements
(05:02):
i'd suggest weren't questioned as much. So I know there
was closed court for ATO and PP Department public prosecutions
and stuff like that. So yeah, that was difficult.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah. And then you know, for all of these years,
like we're talking more than ten years, you were never
able to be named. So essentially your name's been suppressed
for that period of time. Even on your book, your
name is not on there.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Is that it actually is now just now we had
to bring out a new version because before it was
only office A.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
What was that like for you, you know, not your
identity not being able to be revealed.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, it was very difficult. One of the things I
did do during my healing process was to write a book,
and I wanted to share with as many people as
I can my story and my journey with PTSD and
my journey to recovery. So that's my now my new
thing to try and help people, and not being to
put my name to the book was very difficult or
(06:03):
be able to speak with people, and I don't understand
why it was fought so hard, but yeah, it was fought.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
By the.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Police force management right to the end and the coroner's office.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
You're no longer a police officer, are you? I'm no,
and so you are. You're here though, to speak to
the Northern Territory police officers as part of the Police
Association's annual conference, to speak to them about PTSD and
about your experience and what your life was like post
that experience. What are you hoping that they sort of
(06:40):
gain from those discussions.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, firstly, a serious discussion doesn't need to happen. I'm
pushing for a national parliamentary inquiry which has gained quite
a bit attraction, and a serious conversation does need to happen.
I believe the military have actually put a lot of
money and resources into it and doing a lot better
(07:04):
than the police forces in other emergency services. Yeah, so
even to initiate the conversation is a very important thing
because there's so many people ex police officers and emergency
services still struggling so much. There's still high rates of
suicide everything, and a very serious conversation needs to happen
about it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, even here in the Northern Territory, we're awaiting the
outcome of a coronial inquest into Michael Dutrom, a Northern
Territory police officer who took his life. You know. Yeah,
and I like, I think our police do such a
tremendous job. It is such a difficult job, and you know,
the trauma that you're faced with every single day, and
(07:46):
then at a critical incident like the one that you
were involved in, the change to your life when you
are undertaking your daily duties that you've been employed to do,
but then the ramifications of that for an incredibly long time,
you know, like I can't even begin to imagine what
that's been like for you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yeah, and it's not only how much it changed my life,
but also my family and my children and friends. It
affects such a large proportion of society. And to give
you somebody, I was back at work the next day
after that. So it just needs a sue discussion into it,
even preparation prior to police attending incidents. And then yeah,
(08:32):
I'd suggest money and resources into help helping police officers
get through it because they're such an important part of
society and we need them strong, fit and healthy and
to do the job as long as they possibly can.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Absolutely, Then you've written your book. You mentioned it a
moment ago. You've written your book. What can people expect
when they read that my book?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Yeah, Tiger, Tiger Tiger. I'm doing a book signing today
the day and bookstore in the mall at twelve point thirty.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Awesome.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
It's I'd say it starts more a bit like an
action movie, which is sort of my career in the
tu up to it, and then shows my eventual decline
and then yeah, then struggling with PTSD, acknowledging that I
do have PTSD, and then my new challenge, my new
(09:19):
threat and fight was PTSD and my way about going
about it and not letting it beat me as I
haven't in every aspect of my life. I don't like
to be beaten. So I, yeah, just my ways and
strategies of doing that, and I believe that that will
help as many people as I can.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
That good on you, Yeah mate, it says there in
the top corner of the book as well. The book
they wanted to ban, How important was it for you
to get it?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Out very important, and even three days before I had
threats from Police force upper management, threat threatening pretty much
jail time and pretty severe fines if I were were
to release it. I tried for a good twelve months,
approached them, asking them I wanted to work with them
(10:09):
because obviously I'll still loyal to the police force. And yeah,
their response was to ignore me for nine months before
beginning to threaten me if I were to release it.
This is what's to happen, which is very upsetting, to
be honest, and confusing us to their stance on it.
But I went ahead and published it and it's doing well.
(10:29):
I've got lots of feedback and it's helping lots of people,
which is the main point of it.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Good on you. Well, it's called Tiger Tiger Tiger, as
you mentioned, and you can head to Tiger Tiger Tiger
book dot com if you're not able to get to
the bookstore today at twelve thirty? Was it twelve thirty
in them all? Oh, good on you, Ben, Ben Besant.
Thank you so very much for joining us in the
studio and telling us more about your story.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Thanks very much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Thank you
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