Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now the CEO of a group founded by broadcaster Andrew
Denton to advocate and past voluntary assisted dying laws is
here in the Northern Territory this week. Now it comes
to me to a Parliamentary inquiry into voluntary assisted dying,
with the committee aiming to consult with twelve Northern Territory
communities in August before completing its report in September. Go
(00:23):
Gentle Australia's CEO, Linda Swan joins me in the studio
right now. Good morning to you, Linda, Come morning. Lovely
to have you in the studio and I really appreciate
your time. Now, can you tell us a little bit
more about Go Gentle for anybody who's not heard.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Of us, So Go Gentle to charity. Our core mission
is to ensure that there are voluntary assistant dying laws
for all Australians in all jurisdictions, and sadly to say,
the Northern Territory is the last jurisdiction. It's it's an
unfortunate circumstance because you were the first, one of the
first in the world and now the last ten. So
(01:00):
we're here. We're committed to ensuring that we finished the
job and were sure there are laws in every jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Now talk us through. Has the group been instrumental in,
you know, when it comes to what's happened in other
states and helping to advocate for those who do want
to see voluntary assists to die.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, we've played an important role in every jurisdiction, but
not alone. I mean, it's been very much a broad
group of stakeholders who've made these laws happen. In places
like the NT, there's been advocacy now for nearly thirty
years to re establish the terms of the original something
like the terms of the original Radiact which enabled access
(01:39):
to euthanasia in its time here in the NT. So
we're not standing alone here in the Northern Territory. There
are also key stay cooder groups like the AMA or
Representatives of Seniors Group Black Kota. There are other stakeholders
who are here as well who are also committed to
ensuring that choices returned to Northern Tatorians.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I've spoken quite extensively the Sushira from Kota, and she's
certainly advocated for voluntary assisted dying. Linda, can you talk
us through, you know, what's the aim of your visits
to the Northern Territory this time round.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, my primary purpose was to talk to some people
on the ground to really hear from the mood of
the people here what they would like. Our role is
to support, not lead. We have a lot of experience
from what's happened in other jurisdictions, but the Northern Territory
needs to decide what's right for the Northern Territory. What
we can do is provide some insights around what's happened
(02:35):
in other jurisdictions to help people stop reinventing the wheel.
This has actually been debated in every jurisdiction at length,
so there are ways that the normal territory can look
and learn and fast track the process.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Can you talk our listeners through some of what is
happening in other states and territories, because I think that
you know, we don't need to reinvent the wheel. Like,
the fact is that in every state, as I understand it,
they do have the right to voluntary assisted dying. But
for us here in the Northern Territory, we're dragging our heels. Now.
I understand the reason that you know that the politicians
(03:12):
want to see that further consultation I get it that
that's the path they're going down, but can you talk
our listeners through what happens in other states so that
they've got an understanding of exactly the way in which
it's operating.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, I think tragically, the awareness that voluntary assist dying
is legal in all states is still not even transparent
in the states in which it's legal, so it may
not be very obvious here in the Northern Territory Eiland.
Northern Territory is considerably behind. I mean, Victoria has laws
that have been up and running for six years, so
we have got good data now evidence of how assisted
(03:49):
dying works in practice. And what we see is that
the laws are working as intended. They deliver safe, careful,
compassionate and life choice for me. And that has been
the same in every single jurisdiction where they're stopped and
reviewed how the laws are working. One of the safeguards
that's been put in place in all jurisdictions is that
(04:12):
there has to be regular reporting of how the law
is operating. In fact, every case is looked at. So
what we have here is a health service that has
more governance than any other health process in Australia. Which
is great from a safety perspective. It's also really good
for stopping and having a look at what's working and
what's not. So what the Northern Territory can do is
(04:34):
it can look at the date from the other states
and work out, well, what is working really well in
other states, What do we want to copy, what do
we want to change? How can we actually have an
even better law has been designed in other jurisdictions.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Linda, you know, it's really interesting that when you talk
about something like this, sometimes what happens is you see
this sort of fear mongering. You see people going, all, right,
well am I you know, others maybe not real sure,
and they're thinking, well, am I if I end up
with cancer, is my family just going to go down
(05:06):
this path even if it's not something that I want
to do. You know, there's so many there's so many,
I guess frightening situations for some people that they're worried
might happen. Can you sort of take us through some
of those elements?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So I think we have to look at what's happened historically,
and certainly when the laws were first passed in Victoria,
for instance, there was a really heated debate went on
for an extraordinary length of time and there were lots
of hypotheses proposed about what might happen if you allow
this reform to occur. What we've actually seen in practice
(05:44):
is that none of those catastrophic things that people predicted
have actually turned out to be true. So one of
the concerns is that people would be coerced into ending
their life prematurely because people might be one of accessing
theirs of something. You've got to look at what the law,
who the law is designed for, what are the safeguards
(06:06):
are in place, And essentially, in order to access assisted
dying in any jurisdiction in Australia, you need to be
dying and you need to be suffering, So we're talking
about dying and suffering people who are close to the
end of their life. They also have to be over eighteen,
they have to have full capacity, they have to consent
to the process. They have to make three separate requests
(06:30):
for access to voluntary sister dying. They have to see
at least two independent health professionals to assess with their
eligible There is an enormous number of steps that someone
has to go through in order to qualify. So if
you are dying and suffering and prepared to go through
this long process, it's because it's what you want. And
so we are not seeing cases of coercion. We're not
(06:53):
seeing any evidence of coercion into picking voluntary assisted dying.
In fact, what we see is the opposite. We see
people being werced away. People who don't support voluntarier sister dying,
be they health professionals or friends, might say oh no, no,
don't that's not for you. No, no, no, you shouldn't
do that. That's not right, that's not proper, And it's
not about them. It's about the individual who's dying and
(07:14):
suffering and what do they want.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Well, it's the one final choice totally. And anybody that's
seen a loved one battle through terminal illness, battle through
and are dying and are suffering, you'd be a brave
person to tell them how they should make that final choice. Yeah,
which I find quite extraordinary because it is it should
(07:38):
be your choice as an individual. And as I always
say when I talk about this, I understand people have
very different religious views. They've got very different views for whatever,
you know, their moral beliefs or whatever they may be,
but it is voluntary a sister dying to as you've
really really well pointed out there to someone who's dying,
(08:00):
who's suffering, And I think if you remember those two things,
it might actually make you think about it a little
bit differently.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And we absolutely respect the fact that it's not for everybody. Yeah,
some people don't believe for faith based reasons, for personal reasons,
or they might just not want that level of complexity
at the end of their life. That's absolutely fine. What
we are fighting for is that people shall have a
right to choose and not be asked to suffer unnecessarily.
(08:30):
If that's not what they want.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Tell me, I mean, what is your message really for
the Northern Territory government this morning?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, I have heard from the people I've been speaking
to a growing sense of frustration that it's enough, We've
waited long enough. We were the last and we are
proud of living in the Northern Territory, but we want
the same access to health choices that the rest of
the country has. So I think there's a growing sense that,
(09:01):
you know, forget yet again another review. Can we please
just get on and talk about what's the right law
for us in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Well go, gentle CEO, Doctor Linda Swan, I really appreciate
you joining us this morning. I think it's a really
important discussion to have, so thank you very much for
joining me in the studio. Thank you, thank you.
Now the CEO of a group founded by broadcaster Andrew
Denton to advocate and past voluntary assisted dying laws is
here in the Northern Territory this week. Now it comes
to me to a Parliamentary inquiry into voluntary assisted dying,
with the committee aiming to consult with twelve Northern Territory
communities in August before completing its report in September. Go
(00:23):
Gentle Australia's CEO, Linda Swan joins me in the studio
right now. Good morning to you, Linda, Come morning. Lovely
to have you in the studio and I really appreciate
your time. Now, can you tell us a little bit
more about Go Gentle for anybody who's not heard.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Of us, So Go Gentle to charity. Our core mission
is to ensure that there are voluntary assistant dying laws
for all Australians in all jurisdictions, and sadly to say,
the Northern Territory is the last jurisdiction. It's it's an
unfortunate circumstance because you were the first, one of the
first in the world and now the last ten. So
(01:00):
we're here. We're committed to ensuring that we finished the
job and were sure there are laws in every jurisdiction.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Now talk us through. Has the group been instrumental in,
you know, when it comes to what's happened in other
states and helping to advocate for those who do want
to see voluntary assists to die.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, we've played an important role in every jurisdiction, but
not alone. I mean, it's been very much a broad
group of stakeholders who've made these laws happen. In places
like the NT, there's been advocacy now for nearly thirty
years to re establish the terms of the original something
like the terms of the original Radiact which enabled access
(01:39):
to euthanasia in its time here in the NT. So
we're not standing alone here in the Northern Territory. There
are also key stay cooder groups like the AMA or
Representatives of Seniors Group Black Kota. There are other stakeholders
who are here as well who are also committed to
ensuring that choices returned to Northern Tatorians.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
I've spoken quite extensively the Sushira from Kota, and she's
certainly advocated for voluntary assisted dying. Linda, can you talk
us through, you know, what's the aim of your visits
to the Northern Territory this time round.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, my primary purpose was to talk to some people
on the ground to really hear from the mood of
the people here what they would like. Our role is
to support, not lead. We have a lot of experience
from what's happened in other jurisdictions, but the Northern Territory
needs to decide what's right for the Northern Territory. What
we can do is provide some insights around what's happened
(02:35):
in other jurisdictions to help people stop reinventing the wheel.
This has actually been debated in every jurisdiction at length,
so there are ways that the normal territory can look
and learn and fast track the process.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Can you talk our listeners through some of what is
happening in other states and territories, because I think that
you know, we don't need to reinvent the wheel. Like,
the fact is that in every state, as I understand it,
they do have the right to voluntary assisted dying. But
for us here in the Northern Territory, we're dragging our heels. Now.
I understand the reason that you know that the politicians
(03:12):
want to see that further consultation I get it that
that's the path they're going down, but can you talk
our listeners through what happens in other states so that
they've got an understanding of exactly the way in which
it's operating.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, I think tragically, the awareness that voluntary assist dying
is legal in all states is still not even transparent
in the states in which it's legal, so it may
not be very obvious here in the Northern Territory Eiland.
Northern Territory is considerably behind. I mean, Victoria has laws
that have been up and running for six years, so
we have got good data now evidence of how assisted
(03:49):
dying works in practice. And what we see is that
the laws are working as intended. They deliver safe, careful,
compassionate and life choice for me. And that has been
the same in every single jurisdiction where they're stopped and
reviewed how the laws are working. One of the safeguards
that's been put in place in all jurisdictions is that
(04:12):
there has to be regular reporting of how the law
is operating. In fact, every case is looked at. So
what we have here is a health service that has
more governance than any other health process in Australia. Which
is great from a safety perspective. It's also really good
for stopping and having a look at what's working and
what's not. So what the Northern Territory can do is
(04:34):
it can look at the date from the other states
and work out, well, what is working really well in
other states, What do we want to copy, what do
we want to change? How can we actually have an
even better law has been designed in other jurisdictions.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Linda, you know, it's really interesting that when you talk
about something like this, sometimes what happens is you see
this sort of fear mongering. You see people going, all, right,
well am I you know, others maybe not real sure,
and they're thinking, well, am I if I end up
with cancer, is my family just going to go down
(05:06):
this path even if it's not something that I want
to do. You know, there's so many there's so many,
I guess frightening situations for some people that they're worried
might happen. Can you sort of take us through some
of those elements?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
So I think we have to look at what's happened historically,
and certainly when the laws were first passed in Victoria,
for instance, there was a really heated debate went on
for an extraordinary length of time and there were lots
of hypotheses proposed about what might happen if you allow
this reform to occur. What we've actually seen in practice
(05:44):
is that none of those catastrophic things that people predicted
have actually turned out to be true. So one of
the concerns is that people would be coerced into ending
their life prematurely because people might be one of accessing
theirs of something. You've got to look at what the law,
who the law is designed for, what are the safeguards
(06:06):
are in place, And essentially, in order to access assisted
dying in any jurisdiction in Australia, you need to be
dying and you need to be suffering, So we're talking
about dying and suffering people who are close to the
end of their life. They also have to be over eighteen,
they have to have full capacity, they have to consent
to the process. They have to make three separate requests
(06:30):
for access to voluntary sister dying. They have to see
at least two independent health professionals to assess with their
eligible There is an enormous number of steps that someone
has to go through in order to qualify. So if
you are dying and suffering and prepared to go through
this long process, it's because it's what you want. And
so we are not seeing cases of coercion. We're not
(06:53):
seeing any evidence of coercion into picking voluntary assisted dying.
In fact, what we see is the opposite. We see
people being werced away. People who don't support voluntarier sister dying,
be they health professionals or friends, might say oh no, no,
don't that's not for you. No, no, no, you shouldn't
do that. That's not right, that's not proper, And it's
not about them. It's about the individual who's dying and
(07:14):
suffering and what do they want.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Well, it's the one final choice totally. And anybody that's
seen a loved one battle through terminal illness, battle through
and are dying and are suffering, you'd be a brave
person to tell them how they should make that final choice. Yeah,
which I find quite extraordinary because it is it should
(07:38):
be your choice as an individual. And as I always
say when I talk about this, I understand people have
very different religious views. They've got very different views for whatever,
you know, their moral beliefs or whatever they may be,
but it is voluntary a sister dying to as you've
really really well pointed out there to someone who's dying,
(08:00):
who's suffering, And I think if you remember those two things,
it might actually make you think about it a little
bit differently.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
And we absolutely respect the fact that it's not for everybody. Yeah,
some people don't believe for faith based reasons, for personal reasons,
or they might just not want that level of complexity
at the end of their life. That's absolutely fine. What
we are fighting for is that people shall have a
right to choose and not be asked to suffer unnecessarily.
(08:30):
If that's not what they want.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Tell me, I mean, what is your message really for
the Northern Territory government this morning?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Well, I have heard from the people I've been speaking
to a growing sense of frustration that it's enough, We've
waited long enough. We were the last and we are
proud of living in the Northern Territory, but we want
the same access to health choices that the rest of
the country has. So I think there's a growing sense that,
(09:01):
you know, forget yet again another review. Can we please
just get on and talk about what's the right law
for us in the Northern Territory.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Well go, gentle CEO, Doctor Linda Swan, I really appreciate
you joining us this morning. I think it's a really
important discussion to have, so thank you very much for
joining me in the studio. Thank you, thank you.
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