Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now onto a real different topic. We know that the
former British government expert who identified several possible disposal sites
for the body of Peter Falconio says he believes further
searchers have a reasonably high chance of locating the murdered
backpacker's body. Doctor Mark Harrison was the UK's National Police
(00:23):
Search Advisor in the early two thousands and he is
considered a world leading consultant in nobody homicide cases. Now
he spoke to journalist and friend of the show a
voice you will remember, Award winning journalist with the Guardian newspaper,
former head of News at the NT News and former
regular panelist on the Week That was Ben Smee. Good morning,
(00:47):
Ben Katie.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
How are you might have had to have listened for
a long time to remember the voice.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, Ben, We've got a lot of very long term
listeners to this show, so I reckon there'll be a
few that remember.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Very good, very good.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey, good to have you on the show. I'll tell
you what, this is a really interesting story you did. Indeed,
interview doctor Mark Harrison tell us a little bit more
about his background and what he has said.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I mean this is something that
sort of came about from my time in the territory.
About twenty fifteen. I remember having a chat to a
police officer about you'll recall the remember the Carli Sinclear case,
where Carli had been murdered by her partner and that
they'd found her body on a bush blockout in Berry Springs.
I remember having a chat toil police officer about that,
(01:37):
and they talked about an expert who they'd brought up
to the territory to help to locate Carli, and that
that expert had done some work on the Peter Falconi
O case. Sort of this week, obviously, we've had Bradley
Murdoch die and in some people's views, sort of the
best chance of finding Peter Falconier's body kind of dying
(01:59):
with him. And so I'd sort of thought, okay, well,
let's try and track down that expert who'd done this
work in the territory so many years ago. And I
managed to work out who he was and spoke to
him and really found that that he'd done these reports.
He'd been commissioned by the British government and the Northern
Territory Police, paid by the British government. To do these
(02:20):
reports that identified ultimately five possible locations for Peter Falconio's body.
You know this guy is you know the guy right,
He's the person you would go to for a nobody
homicide search. He was involved in the search for Madeline McCann.
He's been involved in cases that listeners would know, like
(02:43):
like the Daniel Morecambe case, like the William Tyrell search.
This is someone who really has is the pre eminent
kind of search expert when it comes to nobody homicide.
And yeah, he says that there's still things that can
be done in terms of searching the areas that he
identified in his reports.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So Ben, in terms of the locations which he identified,
were they ever searched?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, look, I don't know. I think he's the bottom line.
I mean, we tried to ask the Nordon Territory Police
what they had done in relation to that report, and
I think, look, it's important to note that he wasn't
directly critical of the Northern Territory Police in terms of
what he'd said, because obviously search is a very very
difficult thing, but that ultimately, you know, I think the
(03:33):
reality is we should be questioning whether or not the
searches had happened as he envisaged. Now, this is a
guy who sort of his expertise is in forensics, but
also the search methods that he talks about use a
lot of geological techniques. He says that a lot of
those techniques are just simply things that require expertise that
you just simply don't exist within police forces because they're very,
(03:56):
very highly specialized. And it seems as though this report
could very much be the basis of a of potentially
a new search and potentially sort of search efforts that
might not have happened to date. Right, Yeah, I think.
I think one of the things that I think I
found fascinating speaking to him about was that the idea
(04:19):
that it seems like we've all had, and that was
the idea that was in my mind too before speaking
to him, was that Bradley Murdoch was the person who
held the key in terms of discovering Peter Falconio's body.
But that the reality when you think about it, is
that this is something that would have occurred more than
twenty years ago. It occurred in the dark, it occurred
(04:42):
in a very very remote spot, and it occurred in
circumstances where we don't even know whether Bradley Murdoch was
particularly lucid at the time that it happened. So when
you factor all of that in, the reality is is
that even and you know, despite the fact that we
knew it was unlikely, even if Bradley Murdoch confessed, the
reality is that locating a disposal site is probably better
(05:07):
done via science, by a forensic science than it is
done via getting Bradley Murdock to confess. And you know,
we have a five hundred thousand dollars reward for information.
I mean, I think we should possibly be querying whether
or not the idea that a reward for information is
(05:28):
a better use when we have a scientific forensic report
sitting there that could very well be used to mount
maybe another search, as this expert says, further searching has
a reasonably high chance of locating Peter Falconio's body.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So, Ben, is it clear if the you know, if
the report that he you know that we're speaking about,
whether you know any of that has been followed at
this point in time. I mean, is he critical of
the Northern Territory Police or is he more just sort
of saying hey let's give this a go.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, I think he's certainly saying, hey, give this a go,
Like he was very clear, you know that he thought
that the Northern Territory Police had you know, certainly been
tireless in their efforts in terms of attempting to locate
Peter Falconio. So there's certainly no kind of direct criticism
there from him with regard to that. But you know,
(06:21):
I think my interpretation of all of that information is
that fundamentally it does seem like there is more that
can be done here and for the sake of you know,
the Falconio family in particular, who must you know, so
many years down the track still be wondering and sort
of aching because they've had a loved one who's gone missing.
(06:43):
I think, you know, the jurisdictions oh it to families
to do everything they can to attempt to give them
some sort of closure here.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Well, Ben, it is certainly a really interesting discussion and
adds a whole other element to things, and it is
indeed a situation over the years that has it has
captivated the world. There's no other way to put it.
I mean, I remember you and I were sitting on
a panel for the week that was discussing you know,
the nobody no Parole legislation. It's you know, it is
(07:15):
it's something that's really sort of you know, shape people's
views of the Northern Territory in different ways as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Absolutely, absolutely, and you know, I think I think it's
certainly no secret that at the time there was some
you know, some some British media organizations and and sort
of hand up that I currently worked for one of
those British media organizations who who may have you know,
at the time been you know, critical or there'd be
some implied criticism about the efforts that were happening within
(07:46):
the Northern Territory to locate Peter Falconio. Certainly not suggesting
that those efforts, you know, that they were fair portrayals
or that or that we haven't done everything that we
thought we could or that we thought we needed to
up to this point. But I think what we have
here is an expert report, who's someone who's used you know,
(08:07):
really kind of well researched, grounded, expert scientific method to say,
here are five sight that we might be able to
locate this body. You know, I certainly think that for
the sake of that family. The Northern Territory should be
doing everything that it can to make sure that proper
searches of those those have places have taken place, and
(08:29):
that we have really done everything that we could have.
That's not to say that we will find Peter Falconio
out in the desert, but that there are it does
appear that there are stones that are as yet you
know we haven't turned over.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, well, Ben's maithe. It is good to speak to
you this morning. It's like a blast from the plast made.
Hearing your voice back through my head.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Signs absolutely absolutely and it's yeah really lovely to speak
to your listeners again, Katie.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Good on you Ben. Lovely to talk to you. We'll
catch up again soon.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Thanks so much, you too,
Now onto a real different topic. We know that the
former British government expert who identified several possible disposal sites
for the body of Peter Falconio says he believes further
searchers have a reasonably high chance of locating the murdered
backpacker's body. Doctor Mark Harrison was the UK's National Police
(00:23):
Search Advisor in the early two thousands and he is
considered a world leading consultant in nobody homicide cases. Now
he spoke to journalist and friend of the show a
voice you will remember, Award winning journalist with the Guardian newspaper,
former head of News at the NT News and former
regular panelist on the Week That was Ben Smee. Good morning,
(00:47):
Ben Katie.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
How are you might have had to have listened for
a long time to remember the voice.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh, Ben, We've got a lot of very long term
listeners to this show, so I reckon there'll be a
few that remember.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Very good, very good.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hey, good to have you on the show. I'll tell
you what, this is a really interesting story you did. Indeed,
interview doctor Mark Harrison tell us a little bit more
about his background and what he has said.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I mean this is something that
sort of came about from my time in the territory.
About twenty fifteen. I remember having a chat to a
police officer about you'll recall the remember the Carli Sinclear case,
where Carli had been murdered by her partner and that
they'd found her body on a bush blockout in Berry Springs.
I remember having a chat toil police officer about that,
(01:37):
and they talked about an expert who they'd brought up
to the territory to help to locate Carli, and that
that expert had done some work on the Peter Falconi
O case. Sort of this week, obviously, we've had Bradley
Murdoch die and in some people's views, sort of the
best chance of finding Peter Falconier's body kind of dying
(01:59):
with him. And so I'd sort of thought, okay, well,
let's try and track down that expert who'd done this
work in the territory so many years ago. And I
managed to work out who he was and spoke to
him and really found that that he'd done these reports.
He'd been commissioned by the British government and the Northern
Territory Police, paid by the British government. To do these
(02:20):
reports that identified ultimately five possible locations for Peter Falconio's body.
You know this guy is you know the guy right,
He's the person you would go to for a nobody
homicide search. He was involved in the search for Madeline McCann.
He's been involved in cases that listeners would know, like
(02:43):
like the Daniel Morecambe case, like the William Tyrell search.
This is someone who really has is the pre eminent
kind of search expert when it comes to nobody homicide.
And yeah, he says that there's still things that can
be done in terms of searching the areas that he
identified in his reports.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
So Ben, in terms of the locations which he identified,
were they ever searched?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, look, I don't know. I think he's the bottom line.
I mean, we tried to ask the Nordon Territory Police
what they had done in relation to that report, and
I think, look, it's important to note that he wasn't
directly critical of the Northern Territory Police in terms of
what he'd said, because obviously search is a very very
difficult thing, but that ultimately, you know, I think the
(03:33):
reality is we should be questioning whether or not the
searches had happened as he envisaged. Now, this is a
guy who sort of his expertise is in forensics, but
also the search methods that he talks about use a
lot of geological techniques. He says that a lot of
those techniques are just simply things that require expertise that
you just simply don't exist within police forces because they're very,
(03:56):
very highly specialized. And it seems as though this report
could very much be the basis of a of potentially
a new search and potentially sort of search efforts that
might not have happened to date. Right, Yeah, I think.
I think one of the things that I think I
found fascinating speaking to him about was that the idea
(04:19):
that it seems like we've all had, and that was
the idea that was in my mind too before speaking
to him, was that Bradley Murdoch was the person who
held the key in terms of discovering Peter Falconio's body.
But that the reality when you think about it, is
that this is something that would have occurred more than
twenty years ago. It occurred in the dark, it occurred
(04:42):
in a very very remote spot, and it occurred in
circumstances where we don't even know whether Bradley Murdoch was
particularly lucid at the time that it happened. So when
you factor all of that in, the reality is is
that even and you know, despite the fact that we
knew it was unlikely, even if Bradley Murdoch confessed, the
reality is that locating a disposal site is probably better
(05:07):
done via science, by a forensic science than it is
done via getting Bradley Murdock to confess. And you know,
we have a five hundred thousand dollars reward for information.
I mean, I think we should possibly be querying whether
or not the idea that a reward for information is
(05:28):
a better use when we have a scientific forensic report
sitting there that could very well be used to mount
maybe another search, as this expert says, further searching has
a reasonably high chance of locating Peter Falconio's body.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So, Ben, is it clear if the you know, if
the report that he you know that we're speaking about,
whether you know any of that has been followed at
this point in time. I mean, is he critical of
the Northern Territory Police or is he more just sort
of saying hey let's give this a go.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Well, I think he's certainly saying, hey, give this a go,
Like he was very clear, you know that he thought
that the Northern Territory Police had you know, certainly been
tireless in their efforts in terms of attempting to locate
Peter Falconio. So there's certainly no kind of direct criticism
there from him with regard to that. But you know,
(06:21):
I think my interpretation of all of that information is
that fundamentally it does seem like there is more that
can be done here and for the sake of you know,
the Falconio family in particular, who must you know, so
many years down the track still be wondering and sort
of aching because they've had a loved one who's gone missing.
(06:43):
I think, you know, the jurisdictions oh it to families
to do everything they can to attempt to give them
some sort of closure here.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Well, Ben, it is certainly a really interesting discussion and
adds a whole other element to things, and it is
indeed a situation over the years that has it has
captivated the world. There's no other way to put it.
I mean, I remember you and I were sitting on
a panel for the week that was discussing you know,
the nobody no Parole legislation. It's you know, it is
(07:15):
it's something that's really sort of you know, shape people's
views of the Northern Territory in different ways as well.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Absolutely, absolutely, and you know, I think I think it's
certainly no secret that at the time there was some
you know, some some British media organizations and and sort
of hand up that I currently worked for one of
those British media organizations who who may have you know,
at the time been you know, critical or there'd be
some implied criticism about the efforts that were happening within
(07:46):
the Northern Territory to locate Peter Falconio. Certainly not suggesting
that those efforts, you know, that they were fair portrayals
or that or that we haven't done everything that we
thought we could or that we thought we needed to
up to this point. But I think what we have
here is an expert report, who's someone who's used you know,
(08:07):
really kind of well researched, grounded, expert scientific method to say,
here are five sight that we might be able to
locate this body. You know, I certainly think that for
the sake of that family. The Northern Territory should be
doing everything that it can to make sure that proper
searches of those those have places have taken place, and
(08:29):
that we have really done everything that we could have.
That's not to say that we will find Peter Falconio
out in the desert, but that there are it does
appear that there are stones that are as yet you
know we haven't turned over.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, well, Ben's maithe. It is good to speak to
you this morning. It's like a blast from the plast made.
Hearing your voice back through my head.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Signs absolutely absolutely and it's yeah really lovely to speak
to your listeners again, Katie.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Good on you Ben. Lovely to talk to you. We'll
catch up again soon.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Thanks so much, you too,
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